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somewhere in the painting videos, at least for the escher one I'm sure, duncan's got one of the models standing right next to a paint pot...that should be a good easy comparison?

Well, this looks stunning.

One worry I have is how the campaign rules will work regarding the equipment. As a WYSIWYG fanatic, I hate miniature games that have campaign rules that require changing equipment of a model as the campaign progresses. I'm not gonna change gear of the completed models, nor I want to build and paint several models to represent a single ganger.

 Crimson wrote:
Well, this looks stunning.

One worry I have is how the campaign rules will work regarding the equipment. As a WYSIWYG fanatic, I hate miniature games that have campaign rules that require changing equipment of a model as the campaign progresses. I'm not gonna change gear of the completed models, nor I want to build and paint several models to represent a single ganger.

Magnets, my friend.

 JawRippa wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Well, this looks stunning.

One worry I have is how the campaign rules will work regarding the equipment. As a WYSIWYG fanatic, I hate miniature games that have campaign rules that require changing equipment of a model as the campaign progresses. I'm not gonna change gear of the completed models, nor I want to build and paint several models to represent a single ganger.

Magnets, my friend.

Yeah, I'm not gonna magnetise infantry.

Well then you either don't upgrade weapons or compromise on WYSIWYG.

 Crimson wrote:

 JawRippa wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Well, this looks stunning.

One worry I have is how the campaign rules will work regarding the equipment. As a WYSIWYG fanatic, I hate miniature games that have campaign rules that require changing equipment of a model as the campaign progresses. I'm not gonna change gear of the completed models, nor I want to build and paint several models to represent a single ganger.

Magnets, my friend.

Yeah, I'm not gonna magnetise infantry.

I would agree with you, but I mean, it's not like it's magnetising a "green tide" ork army or something...this's just a necromunda gang...likely just a few wrist-join magnets so you can swap out weapons...doesn't sound too bad to me really - depending on how the models go together, regarding weapons and such...

Fair warning - potentially controversial, but hopefully not incendiary opinion follows.

I. Hate. Spyrers. They're dull. The don't fit with the rest of the game. And in my experience, they're a TFG magnet (this is not to say if you play Spyrers you're TFG by default. Just to be clear).

They have limited advancement, can't hold territory or do trade, and can't replace losses. Their sole purpose is to be use to beat other gangs in dull and boring ways.

At the start of a campaign, they're easily tuned to utterly overwhelm starting gangs. Fun once or twice - then incredibly dull ever after.

So for me, they need to go.

But what to replace them with? How can we represent The Noble Houses slumming it for a bit?

Well, how about bringing in some gangs of yesteryear from Confrontation (not the Rackham game, the WD based Necromunda precursor game. Look at the pics and the models. Don't try to make sense of the rules...).

Brat Gangs and Tech Gangs - they're wealthier, and thus better fed and equipped than the City Houses. And so much more interesting that 'Imma wear mah suoopasoot and smash face'.

Now. Discuss. Am I being unfair on Spyrers (bad experiences I'm afraid). Do you agree, if so, any other aspects you think could be used?

Background wise I like Spyrers. The figures (well, the art the figures are based on), the motivations, the almost inhuman disociation from the population. Rules wise I kind of see where you're coming from. They are an elite force, and lots of people like playing elites. Make them too strong and everyone plays them. Too weak and they lose their predatory feel. So yeah - great if there's 6+ players and 1 takes spyrers. If there's 3 of us and 2 want to play spyrers it's a bit naff.

As an aside - for the last 10 years, whenever Forgeworld did a survey of what figures did we want made I have been putting Spyrers. The figs never lived up to the art imo.

I agree with the complaints about no juvies and heavies, but it's Necromunda, how could I not be excited.

As long as there's no stupid restriction stuff like house equipment lists that prevent all kinds of awesome conversions. I have the old rules to use with new nodels, though.

We are seeing that there are rules change for the gangs (goliath for example with S and T4 or escher with I 3+ and different equipment)

If they realease rules for all classic gangs, they can change their style.

Not as excited for this as I was having seen the website and videos. I'd have infinitely preferred a more-or-less straight re-release of the old Necromunda rules. This strikes me as a Frankenstein muddle of different rulesets. I think they need to be a bit clearer in their marketing about what we're getting in the box and the supplement (day one DLC FTW!)

The models look OK, but I'd have preferred something a lot more modular given the nature of a Necromunda campaign, unless they've changed those rules completely too, of course.

I just feel Spyrers break the game as a player faction.

They're ridiculously hard, and don't partake of many of the post battle sequences - you pretty much just roll for injury and advancement.

There's no going to the market. There's no actual interaction with the wider world.

Now, as a GM controlled antagonist faction? I guess they could work. But not as a player faction. Everytime I've come up against them it's been TFG. The sort to pick on new players, but rage quit as soon as one of his Spyrers snuffed it.

But... these are modular?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Fair warning - potentially controversial, but hopefully not incendiary opinion follows.

I. Hate. Spyrers. They're dull. The don't fit with the rest of the game. And in my experience, they're a TFG magnet (this is not to say if you play Spyrers you're TFG by default. Just to be clear).

They have limited advancement, can't hold territory or do trade, and can't replace losses. Their sole purpose is to be use to beat other gangs in dull and boring ways.

At the start of a campaign, they're easily tuned to utterly overwhelm starting gangs. Fun once or twice - then incredibly dull ever after.

So for me, they need to go.

But what to replace them with? How can we represent The Noble Houses slumming it for a bit?

Well, how about bringing in some gangs of yesteryear from Confrontation (not the Rackham game, the WD based Necromunda precursor game. Look at the pics and the models. Don't try to make sense of the rules...).

Brat Gangs and Tech Gangs - they're wealthier, and thus better fed and equipped than the City Houses. And so much more interesting that 'Imma wear mah suoopasoot and smash face'.

Now. Discuss. Am I being unfair on Spyrers (bad experiences I'm afraid). Do you agree, if so, any other aspects you think could be used?

Strongly agree. I'd be happy to see all the Confrontation concepts brought into Necromunda in some form or another, but replacing Spyrers with Brats/Techs - or at the very least, making Spyrer-styled gear rare, expensive late-campaign equipment available only to Brats/Techs - is a brilliant idea.

Didn't Brats/Techs kinda transform into Goliaths (with a bit of Ratskins) and Van Saar in Necromunda?

With the new ‘proxy war’ approach they are taking with the gangs’ motivations I can see the Spyrers returning as noble house proxies that can and do take territories (using sensors and other advanced gear to keep others out) and advance normally but use the trading rules to upgrade their gear instead of buying new stuff.
On the other had I wouldn’t mind an ‘elite’ gang that had access to superior gear but was limited in numbers but wasn’t wearing powered armour. Sort of like personal household troops for the heads of houses who can get sentry turrets instead of heavies but no juves or similar.
And if it was one of the above or the other, the second would be more interesting to me.

But I want to see more of what they’re doing with the main houses now first. It’s already hinted that the Orlocks run the mines (where? Are they outside the Hive? What are they mining?) so what are Van Saar and Cawdor (supposed to be) up to?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Fair warning - potentially controversial, but hopefully not incendiary opinion follows.

I. Hate. Spyrers. They're dull. The don't fit with the rest of the game. And in my experience, they're a TFG magnet (this is not to say if you play Spyrers you're TFG by default. Just to be clear).

They have limited advancement, can't hold territory or do trade, and can't replace losses. Their sole purpose is to be use to beat other gangs in dull and boring ways.

At the start of a campaign, they're easily tuned to utterly overwhelm starting gangs. Fun once or twice - then incredibly dull ever after.

So for me, they need to go.

But what to replace them with? How can we represent The Noble Houses slumming it for a bit?

Well, how about bringing in some gangs of yesteryear from Confrontation (not the Rackham game, the WD based Necromunda precursor game. Look at the pics and the models. Don't try to make sense of the rules...).

Brat Gangs and Tech Gangs - they're wealthier, and thus better fed and equipped than the City Houses. And so much more interesting that 'Imma wear mah suoopasoot and smash face'.

Now. Discuss. Am I being unfair on Spyrers (bad experiences I'm afraid). Do you agree, if so, any other aspects you think could be used?

One of my friends owned a spyrer gang but actually never used them for tabletop action. Why? Well, he knew they were over the top and would ruin the game. It is always wise to play such games like Necromunda with mature players.
I have problems with the religious fanatics of House Cawdor. They have the same theme as the Redemptionists but are worse in comparison to the red hooded zealots. Because of this, GW should reinvent House Cawdor. I doubt that they retcon the Redemptionists because the Redeemer is an icon of Necromunda.

 Mr_Rose wrote:
But I want to see more of what they’re doing with the main houses now first. It’s already hinted that the Orlocks run the mines (where? Are they outside the Hive? What are they mining?) so what are Van Saar and Cawdor (supposed to be) up to?

That caught my attention, too. If I end up disliking the official models, tying Orlock to mining operations is the perfect excuse to convert Genestealer Cult models.

Never had a problem with Spyrers. They were tough to fight, sure, but I never saw them as overpowered.

Had tougher times with Genestealer Cults.

Can't wait for this to come out. Likely buy every single release for it

Liked idea of spyrer's but felt they were more at home as npc/gm force to be used sparingly

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Didn't Brats/Techs kinda transform into Goliaths (with a bit of Ratskins) and Van Saar in Necromunda?

Techs evolved into Van Saar and Delaque I think, but there's no equivalent in Necromunda to the Brats, who were basically the Bullingdon Club with guns and that awesome Jes Goodwin "punk + goth via David Bowie" aesthetic of HUEG spiky hair, platforms, wild makeup, and studded leather. There's no reason you couldn't use the basic concept for Brats(rabid Noble House kids proving themselves in bloody gang warfare) but with multiple different aesthetic archetypes, having them start out more "elite" than the normal House gangs but not to the degree of classic Spyrers, then allow them the option of teching up with modernised versions of that gear later in the campaign when other warbands are better equipped to deal with it on a level playing field.

That's the sort of thing.

I just feel Spyrers (whilst cool in their own way) just don't fit Necromunda, or even 40k all that well. Not their aesthetic, not their playstyle.

Show us proper spoiled Noble Families. Brats just sum it up far, far better for me.

November White Dwarf Preview
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/27/november-white-dwarf-preview-welcome-to-the-underhive-oct-27gw-homepage-post-4/

 Strg Alt wrote:

I have problems with the religious fanatics of House Cawdor. They have the same theme as the Redemptionists but are worse in comparison to the red hooded zealots. Because of this, GW should reinvent House Cawdor. I doubt that they retcon the Redemptionists because the Redeemer is an icon of Necromunda.

As a player of House Cawdor, I agree. They were pretty much eclipsed when the Redemptionists came out because they had no more niche to fill. The Redmpetionists just filled the niche better.

Cawdor should abandon the religious theme (Redemptionists do it) and be the "Medieval" Knightly-like gang.

Ah man I have longed for the day where I would see Necromunda rise again, and with all the awesome terrain that's been pumped out I can quite easily predict a period of intense poverty coming up. I have regretted not buying all the original gang models for a long time, I will 100% be buying every gang box and character released.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I just feel Spyrers break the game as a player faction.

They're ridiculously hard, and don't partake of many of the post battle sequences - you pretty much just roll for injury and advancement.

There's no going to the market. There's no actual interaction with the wider world.

Now, as a GM controlled antagonist faction? I guess they could work. But not as a player faction. Everytime I've come up against them it's been TFG. The sort to pick on new players, but rage quit as soon as one of his Spyrers snuffed it.

Yeah - agreed about them being TFG magnets - but the look on his face when he was greeted with 'Which is the highest points cost character in your gang? 'Cause we are all going to be gunning for him' was just precious.

And, sure enough - that character ate all the plasma.

And it turned out that Redemptionists can take the Spyerers, if they are willing to use the flamer fuel....

The Auld Grump

Bit of a play through

summary for those of us who cant watch?