Necromunda Underhive - House of Chains Pg272

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Chikout**

A couple of interesting tidbits from warhammer live.
The next gang will be Orlocks in Q1. The gang designs that eventually became the gangs we know were originally from a concept book drawn by John Blanche. This book was lost for many years but has recently been found. It contains designs for many gangs that never became models. They may be dipping back into that book in the future.
The legacy gang pdf will cover the original 6 gangs only and will only cover the weapons the old metal models have. The rules that come with the plastic gangs later will probably be quite different.

**Geifer**

Chikout wrote:
The legacy gang pdf will cover the original 6 gangs only and will only cover the weapons the old metal models have. The rules that come with the plastic gangs later will probably be quite different.

That's lame. I have a friend with Ratskins who wasn't particularly thrilled with the release of only two gangs (for now), rightfully pointing towards Shadespire which did it right from the start. I guess he won't be too pleased to hear this.

**Fango**

The unboxing video shows the guy going through the tiles, I counted eight...but he may have moved two at one time.

**Ruin_In_The_Dark**

Geifer wrote:
Chikout wrote:
The legacy gang pdf will cover the original 6 gangs only and will only cover the weapons the old metal models have. The rules that come with the plastic gangs later will probably be quite different.

That's lame. I have a friend with Ratskins who wasn't particularly thrilled with the release of only two gangs (for now), rightfully pointing towards Shadespire which did it right from the start. I guess he won't be too pleased to hear this.

As a former Ratskin player I am consigned to quite a wait before I get my hands on their new models/rules :(

**Skyven**

Fango wrote:
The unboxing video shows the guy going through the tiles, I counted eight...but he may have moved two at one time.

A box on page 7 of the latest WD says 'The set contains nine double-sided board tiles'.

**mdauben**

Mymearan wrote:
http://www.wargamestournaments.com

Warning though, they’re getting very popular and seem to be behind on orders, so it could take a while

Bingo! That's the one. Now, I need to bookmark the site before I lose it again...

**vegeta365**

Yay, I have a boxed copy and gang war. Will be building the gangs tonight and play tomorrow.

**mdauben**

Ruin_In_The_Dark wrote:
I am also very excited to see what has happened with the Ratskins. I imagine there will be a move away from the Native American imagery but again I hope they don't move too far.

I always liked the native American theme of the Ratskins, but I agree in the current political and social climate such a thing might not fly anymore. :(

**Geifer**

Ruin_In_The_Dark wrote:
Geifer wrote:
Chikout wrote:
The legacy gang pdf will cover the original 6 gangs only and will only cover the weapons the old metal models have. The rules that come with the plastic gangs later will probably be quite different.

That's lame. I have a friend with Ratskins who wasn't particularly thrilled with the release of only two gangs (for now), rightfully pointing towards Shadespire which did it right from the start. I guess he won't be too pleased to hear this.

As a former Ratskin player I am consigned to quite a wait before I get my hands on their new models/rules :(

Yeah, it doesn't help that another friend is a fan of the Redemption and Redemptionists are the only gang I ever invested in a major way (for my younger self anyway).

At least I got lucky with Orlocks coming first.

**Yodhrin**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Mighty Ape did an unboxing, and showed off a bit of the Gang War book.

What I gathered from the video...

There are more skill types:

Agility
Brawn (taking over from Muscle)
Combat
Cunning (taking over from Stealth)
Ferocity
Leadership
Shooting
Savant (taking over from Techno)

The Injury Chart is quite different. It's a D66 roll, but it happens when you go OoA.

11 - Lesson Learned - Recovery (which means you're alive but miss the next game or something - can't quite make it out) and gain XP.
12-26 - Out Cold - Misses the rest of the battle... and something I can't make out.
31-45 - Grievous Wound - Into Recovery.
46 - Humiliated.
51 - Head Injury
52 - Eye Injury
53 - Hand Injury
54 - Hobbled
55 - Spinal Injury
56 - Enfeebled
61-65 - Critical Injury (need medical attention otherwise dead).
66 - Memorable Death - Dead, and the person who killed you gets XP.

How is XP gained? Not sure, but it's no longer 'levels'. You spend XP to get things. Eg 12 XP for +1W, or 3 XP for +1Int.

There are territories as you'd expect, and most of the old ones make a return (no Slag Pile!). Chem-Pit, Settlement, Mine Workings, Tunnel Network, Vent Network (YAY!), Drinking Hole, Guilder Contact, Friendly Doc, Workshop, Gambling Den, Spore Cave. You can send captured gangers to the mines to work, or sell them to Guilder Contacts. Settlements automatically generate free Juves!!! Or you can get 30 Creds. Your choice.

Rarity on the trading post is a value (eg. Power Sword, Rarity 9) that you test against to find stuff. The Combat Shotgun has two types of ammo that use the flamer template.

Gang War is no fluff, all crunch. That's fine.

Hmm. At first I had a slightly kneejerk "u wot m8" reaction to the idea of XP as a currency...but it actually sounds pretty nice. I'm more a "build models that account for advances" person than a "turn models into balls of glue & bitz over the course of a campaign to maintain WYSIWYG" guy, so actually being able to *choose* how models develop is appealing. It'll get rid of a few of the occasional "frustrating-but-funny" things where you end up with a guy you intended to be a sharpshooter being a drooling moron who couldn't hit a barn door with a minigun, but that might be a price worth paying tbh.

mdauben wrote:
Ruin_In_The_Dark wrote:
I am also very excited to see what has happened with the Ratskins. I imagine there will be a move away from the Native American imagery but again I hope they don't move too far.

I always liked the native American theme of the Ratskins, but I agree in the current political and social climate such a thing might not fly anymore. :(

I hope not, that farcical "cultural appropriation" nonsense doesn't seem to have spread much over here beyond student politics and the Guardian's comment section, and it's not like we're talking about those genuinely racist old "pygmie" models they got rid of back in the 90's. Taking elements of existing and historical cultures to combine with sci-fi/fantasy/horror tropes and technological or cultural anachronisms is pretty much how 40K works as a setting, and there's zero reason they should change that.

**Fango**

Close-up sprue photos are all over Facebook if anyone cares to post them up here in the thread...

**Gimgamgoo**

Are the 2 sets of cards that are available seperately, different to the ones in the main game?

**Aeneades**

Gimgamgoo wrote:
Are the 2 sets of cards that are available seperately, different to the ones in the main game?

They are.

**Gimgamgoo**

Aeneades wrote:
Gimgamgoo wrote:
Are the 2 sets of cards that are available seperately, different to the ones in the main game?

They are.

Ouch. That means a spend of £18 for 40 extra cards. That price makes MtG seem cheap.
And the campaign book is pretty much an essential purchase.

Seems for every game GW do a good job on price-wise (like all the Shadowspire and extras) they then go silly money on something else. :-(

**zamerion**

I'm a little disappointed because they dont include outlanders in legacy gangs. And only one realease gang per quarter its very slowly..

I post it in the official necromunda facebook.

I suggest that everyone who wants more gangs rules write them too

**Warhams-77**

Vegeta365 got his box and Gang War book and is now posting photos and answering a few questions

https://yaktribe.games/community/threads/new-official-necromunda-in-2017.5994/page-134#post-123802

Apologies I had so much to do. I am now going to build the 2 gangs but have been looking through some bits. Early points to note that I don’t believe have been covered:

Only comes with 22 blank character cards. I wonder if they will sell these separately eventually?

Tactics cards - 4 specific Escher and 4 specific Goliath cards. 2x 10 non gang specific cards so choose from 14 cards at the moment.

Dice - I hadn’t seen it confirmed, but the firepower (sustained fire) dice has 3 1’s (1 of which is the out of ammo), 2 2’s and 1 3. The injury dice has 3 serious injury facings, 2 flesh wound and 1 out of action.

Floor tiles - I have owned zone mortalis since the day it was released. Not used it anywhere near as much as I would like but fully enjoy it. Not sure if I had never measured and not noticed or if I had just forgotten, but they are not 12’ tiles they are 30cm so a bit short of making a 4x4 board or whatever. By contrast the card tiles in the box set are actually 29cm x 29cm so 1cm smaller than zone mortalis. Now this doesn’t matter that much as you likely wouldn’t use a mix of the 2 unless you were planning to slowly upgrade your Necromunda tiles with sexy ZM tiles, but (and I haven’t glued the plastics together yet) it likely means the doors don’t quite fill the space perfect on the FW resin ZM tiles if you were planning on getting lots to make a much cheaper way of having doors. It can’t be much at all in it given only 1cm loss over a 30 cm tile but just in case. The tiles are 1 of each of the ZM tiles with 2 of one type. Both sides are the same tile but one side has either holes in the floor, toxic mist or demolished walls.

Army lists - very different house equipment lists. Very limited by what can currently be taken between each gang, which actually feels like a good thing. 1 Ganger can take a special weapon so including the leader and 2 champions you could technically have 4 models with a special weapon now (instead of 3). Leaders and champions have no restrictions so you could have 3 models with a heavy weapon (though at the moment Goliath have access to only one and Escher none).

**Voss**

Gimgamgoo wrote:
Aeneades wrote:
Gimgamgoo wrote:
Are the 2 sets of cards that are available seperately, different to the ones in the main game?

They are.

Ouch. That means a spend of £18 for 40 extra cards. That price makes MtG seem cheap.
And the campaign book is pretty much an essential purchase.

Seems for every game GW do a good job on price-wise (like all the Shadowspire and extras) they then go silly money on something else. :-(

Actually, this is quite in keeping with Shadespire. Each upgrade pack for SS includes universal cards, so for the competitive players they're obligated to buy the upgrade packs to keep up with the evolving meta, just like a CCG or an FFG game. So it's already a $120 game, soon to be a $150 game, and on and on as it goes forward.

That they're going for wacky add-ons shouldn't be a surprise at this point.

**Warhams-77**

The cards are not mandatory. This is not like Shadespire. Also Underhive is a complete game in a box. Like Overkill, Calth, Execution Force and the other boxed games.

Necromunda is also not a competitive game at all.

**H.B.M.C.**

Leaders and champions have no restrictions so you could have 3 models with a heavy weapon (though at the moment Goliath have access to only one and Escher none).

And there's the stinging bite of 'No Model = No Rule' coming back to chomp us in the face.

Eschers can't get heavy weapons because the sprue has none. I bet you they can't get Stub guns either. Or any HTH weapons outside of knives, whips and power swords.

Absolutely fething asinine.

**Yodhrin**

That is disappointing, doubly so since so much else about this release is so good.

Listening to that podcast the info on Delaques jumped out as really cool - Spook-induced telepathy seems confirmed, and also apparently their "specialism" in terms of gear seems to be on optionally-lethal weapons like Webbers and Needle Rifles, allowing them to capture opposing gangers more easily. Very cool.

**Crimson**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Leaders and champions have no restrictions so you could have 3 models with a heavy weapon (though at the moment Goliath have access to only one and Escher none).
And there's the stinging bite of 'No Model = No Rule' coming back to chomp us in the face.

Eschers can't get heavy weapons because the sprue has none. I bet you they can't get Stub guns either. Or any HTH weapons outside of knives, whips and power swords.

Absolutely fething asinine.

FFS, I'm so tired of this crap. It is ruining 40K and now it is ruining Necromunda as well. This means that many old models are unusable as they have gear that the new rules don't support.

**Theophony**

Maybe gangs are only coming once a quarter, but resin figs and upgrade will probably be coming out of Forgeworld with heavy weapons and extras for the gangs, which might mean digital updates on rules for them and a yearly compendium of printed rules. All this is my own conjecture, but it would make sense to do that and not tie up the plastics machine to make $30 Escher heavy with one weapon option that few will buy.

**Neronoxx**

Crimson wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Leaders and champions have no restrictions so you could have 3 models with a heavy weapon (though at the moment Goliath have access to only one and Escher none).
And there's the stinging bite of 'No Model = No Rule' coming back to chomp us in the face.

Eschers can't get heavy weapons because the sprue has none. I bet you they can't get Stub guns either. Or any HTH weapons outside of knives, whips and power swords.

Absolutely fething asinine.

FFS, I'm so tired of this crap. It is ruining 40K and now it is ruining Necromunda as well. This means that many old models are unusable as they have gear that the new rules don't support.

Slow down bucko. There likely aren't even enough players with these models to make this an actual issue for the majority. I mean think about it, how many people actually own those models still?

**Crimson**

Neronoxx wrote:

Slow down bucko. There likely aren't even enough players with these models to make this an actual issue for the majority. I mean think about it, how many people actually own those models still?

Well, I for one. And considering how much the hype about his game is based on nostalgia, I'd wager that non-insignificant percentage of the target audience does as well.

Besides, it is more than just that, it is just lame and kills a lot of potential for conversions. And it doesn't even make much sense, neither gang can get relatively common* weapons such as bolters, bolt pistols, chainswords or flamers.

(* I mean they may be somewhat rare in the Underhive, but they can get rarer weapons such as plasma pistols and power weapons.)

**vegeta365**

Release date will see the old lists added to the office website so you will be able to use the old models for launch.

**Neronoxx**

I'm not arguing that less options is better - I'm just saying that the designers want to sell models, and they obviously don't believe that there are that many of you, or at least think you'll be too wowed by the new ones to care.
I mean, for how many people is this gonna be a deal breaker?
And more realisitically, who is surprised? We clearly could have predicted this given recent marketing standards.
Thats all I'm saying. I want a conversion based army too, or at least the potential for such.
But GW wants to protect their money, and I understand that as well.

**Chopstick**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Leaders and champions have no restrictions so you could have 3 models with a heavy weapon (though at the moment Goliath have access to only one and Escher none).
And there's the stinging bite of 'No Model = No Rule' coming back to chomp us in the face.

Eschers can't get heavy weapons because the sprue has none. I bet you they can't get Stub guns either. Or any HTH weapons outside of knives, whips and power swords.

Absolutely fething asinine.

Well somebody ask this on stream and Andy said you can, he said an upgrade kit is soming soon (hopefully not FW) come along with a "trading outpost" rule to buy on the stuff like Oldmunda.

Or maybe what he meant is buy the GSC kit and convert it, lol

**Yodhrin**

Chopstick wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Leaders and champions have no restrictions so you could have 3 models with a heavy weapon (though at the moment Goliath have access to only one and Escher none).
And there's the stinging bite of 'No Model = No Rule' coming back to chomp us in the face.

Eschers can't get heavy weapons because the sprue has none. I bet you they can't get Stub guns either. Or any HTH weapons outside of knives, whips and power swords.

Absolutely fething asinine.

Well somebody ask this on stream and Andy said you can, he said an upgrade kit is soming soon (hopefully not FW) come along with a "trading outpost" rule to buy on the stuff like Oldmunda.

Or maybe what he meant is buy the GSC kit and convert it, lol

See it's that bit I don't get. If they're adding this stuff anyway in the near future, why not just put it in the sodding book in the first place? Do they seriously believe a few weeks head-start for third party bitz makers is going to have a serious impact on their sales? Like 80% of their potential market doesn't have a clue about alternatives, and most of the rest either play in a GW store and so couldn't use them anyway or actively despise the very existence of third-party bitz. I can see the argument for "the box has rules for what's in the box", but there's zero rational reason these options couldn't be in Gang War.

**Galas**

As long as all the rules for the next gangs, etc... are free on the necromunda website, I'll have 0 problems.

It will be a little pain in the *ss, to have to wait for those, but to be honest I'm not gonna be able to play Necromunda properly until probably February of 2018.

**H.B.M.C.**

Crimson wrote:
FFS, I'm so tired of this crap. It is ruining 40K and now it is ruining Necromunda as well. This means that many old models are unusable as they have gear that the new rules don't support.

The Legacy release will cover the old gang models, including the stuff that Escher can't get. That's not a solution, that's a stop-gap at best, but they will be able to get Stubbers and whatnot.

Theophony wrote:
Maybe gangs are only coming once a quarter, but resin figs and upgrade will probably be coming out of Forgeworld with heavy weapons and extras for the gangs, which might mean digital updates on rules for them and a yearly compendium of printed rules. All this is my own conjecture, but it would make sense to do that and not tie up the plastics machine to make $30 Escher heavy with one weapon option that few will buy.

I fully expect that other weapons will be added via FW - that's fine. That's more than fine actually. That's ideal. The problem is there just aren't any rules for them now, and it's a bit rich to put out Day 1 DLC like Gang War that has the full gang lists for Eschers and Goliaths except they're not 'full', they're 'full but only what's on the very limited sprue'.

Include Stubguns and Heavy Stubbers and all the normal things in the rules themselves. People might just convert them - something we know modern GW hates but people are doing it anyway - and then people will buy them when FW puts out their own version.

Yodhrin wrote:
See it's that bit I don't get. If they're adding this stuff anyway in the near future, why not just put it in the sodding book in the first place? Do they seriously believe a few weeks head-start for third party bitz makers is going to have a serious impact on their sales? Like 80% of their potential market doesn't have a clue about alternatives, and most of the rest either play in a GW store and so couldn't use them anyway or actively despise the very existence of third-party bitz. I can see the argument for "the box has rules for what's in the box", but there's zero rational reason these options couldn't be in Gang War.

That's the part I don't understand. I've converted quite a few Gangers to have weapons not available on the miniatures... and they're all made from GW pieces, just not Necromunda GW pieces.

There's no harm in putting Meltaguns, Heavy Bolters and Lasguns in the Goliath weapons list in Gang War. It's insane that they're not there.

Galas wrote:
As long as all the rules for the next gangs, etc... are free on the necromunda website, I'll have 0 problems.

That won't happen. The new Orlocks etc. will all be put out in books. The free stuff is the legacy stuff for the old miniatures.