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Well, just like with AoS vs W40k 8th edition, the difference between Shadespire and Newcromunda is obvious. GW know where he needs to put reasonable prices and make costumer friendly changes (AoS reboxings, Shadespire) to convice people to play their game, and they know where they can charge extras just because brand name (W40K) or Nostalgia (Necromunda)

I skimmed through some of the unboxing videos, and it looks like the trading post rules and stats for the common weapons are in the Gang War book, so I think that most of the old weapons and equipment will be available in campaigns right off the bat. I haven't actually held the book in my hands though, so I could be wrong.

Trading post look very basic.

Also, no chainsword, at all. That's weird.

I don't see any of the house specific weapons either, and none of the other old heavy or special weapons. Likely this is just the commonly accessible weapons that are available from the two starter sprues. That's very annoying if that's the case, but it is what it is.

I can make out at the top that it says "this is list is not exclusive... will be added in future supplements", so at least we know that more gear will come later, even if it means it will be in different books.

Chopstick wrote:
Also, no chainsword, at all. That's weird.

It's not weird. There are no chainswords on either the Escher or Goliath sprues. Therefore, there are no rules for them.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Leaders and champions have no restrictions so you could have 3 models with a heavy weapon (though at the moment Goliath have access to only one and Escher none).

And there's the stinging bite of 'No Model = No Rule' coming back to chomp us in the face.

Eschers can't get heavy weapons because the sprue has none. I bet you they can't get Stub guns either. Or any HTH weapons outside of knives, whips and power swords.

Absolutely fething asinine.

Andy said Forge World upgrade sets are forthcoming, so you probably won't have to wait long for those. The fact that they aren't in Gang War is crazy though.

I don't see why people are having such a hard time believing that GW would nickle and dime us to death on a product the know is going to sell well. It's poor form that they've decided to be donkey-caves about it, but it's hardly out of character.

 Zethnar wrote:
I don't see why people are having such a hard time believing that GW would nickle and dime us to death on a product the know is going to sell well.

There is a point where it stops working and diminishes sales.

We would never know but I would love to know what the sales volumes of the Blood bowl season books and card packs are to see how much of a drop off there was from the box set sales.

If they want to 'nickle and dime' players then there are other avenues for players to throw it back in their face. A more traditional necromunda release would be an auto buy for me but with their 'drag out the rules releases' style of trying to generate sales means they wont see any money from me.

It is what it is but I am happy to play the game for free rather than be treated like an open wallet

I don't really see the issue. They are releasing the game as a new game. When stuff comes out they'll include the rules for it.

It's only an issue for those of us that are already familiar with Necromunda - and for us there's the legacy stuff.

Releasing rules and information about stuff coming months down the line seems a good way to confuse and frustrate new players.


Anyway, seems we aren't talking about how we have gone a little Mordheim with the advances.

Gangers roll randomly for stat advances with no access to skills (they become a specialist on a double 6 on their random roll). Leaders, champions, specialists and juves spend their XP on upgrades.

That's quite a change

Vorian wrote:
I don't really see the issue.

I don't believe you.

Vorian wrote:
They are releasing the game as a new game. When stuff comes out they'll include the rules for it.

It's only an issue for those of us that are already familiar with Necromunda - and for us there's the legacy stuff.

This has nothing to do with Necromunda. It's a systemic problem with GW as a whole.

Vorian wrote:
Releasing rules and information about stuff coming months down the line seems a good way to confuse and frustrate new players.

Having the rules for mundane weaponry (swords, chainswords, stubguns, meltaguns, heavy stubbers) in the basic rules isn't going to confuse and frustrate anyone.

Vorian wrote:
Releasing rules and information about stuff coming months down the line seems a good way to confuse and frustrate new players.

This is literally how GW have done business for decades and I don't recall there ever being any confusion over stats for vehicles, characters, or weapons that didn't have a model yet. The level of disconnect necessary to even make this statement is incredible since it was only a few years ago that GW stopped encouraging creativity and instead started removing the stats for units they didn't have models for.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Vorian wrote:
I don't really see the issue.

I don't believe you.

Vorian wrote:
They are releasing the game as a new game. When stuff comes out they'll include the rules for it.

It's only an issue for those of us that are already familiar with Necromunda - and for us there's the legacy stuff.

This has nothing to do with Necromunda. It's a systemic problem with GW as a whole.

Vorian wrote:
Releasing rules and information about stuff coming months down the line seems a good way to confuse and frustrate new players.

Having the rules for mundane weaponry (swords, chainswords, stubguns, meltaguns, heavy stubbers) in the basic rules isn't going to confuse and frustrate anyone.

Which is fine if you know what a Meltagun or a heavy stubber is. If you listen to the interview they are talking about how they made the game astand alone game because they want to release it into territories that don't necessarily have a thriving tabletop scene.

If you want to play with Meltaguns and heavy stubbers then there are the legacy rules - hence, I don't see what the issue is. I've got more Necromunda than any sane person should have and I'll still be able to use all of my house gangs on day 1.

Would I selfishly like everything released all at once? Sure, but I can understand a company wanting to release rules for things as they can sell them. It's common sense.

Let's not be naive here. Most people will come to Necromunda the way they did the first time, adjacent to 40K.

Most people who pick this game up are going to know what a meltagun is. Most very new players will probably ask "Can I use my Space Marines in this?" before they ask "What's a chainsword?".

These games don't exist in vacuums. They're being sold in GW stores, next to 40K miniatures using (roughly) the same gear.

Never mind; missed a post.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Vorian wrote:
I don't really see the issue.

I don't believe you.

Vorian wrote:
They are releasing the game as a new game. When stuff comes out they'll include the rules for it.

It's only an issue for those of us that are already familiar with Necromunda - and for us there's the legacy stuff.

This has nothing to do with Necromunda. It's a systemic problem with GW as a whole.

Vorian wrote:
Releasing rules and information about stuff coming months down the line seems a good way to confuse and frustrate new players.

Having the rules for mundane weaponry (swords, chainswords, stubguns, meltaguns, heavy stubbers) in the basic rules isn't going to confuse and frustrate anyone.

Actually, it is to do with Necromunda, because it is following a sales model that is now common with 'big' non 'main-line' releases through FW/GW (Bloodbowl, Shadespire etc)

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Let's not be naive here. Most people will come to Necromunda the way they did the first time, adjacent to 40K.

Most people who pick this game up are going to know what a meltagun is. Most very new players will probably ask "Can I use my Space Marines in this?" before they ask "What's a chainsword?".

These games don't exist in vacuums. They're being sold in GW stores, next to 40K miniatures using (roughly) the same gear.

That's your contention. Made without evidence.

What is a fact is that they have talked about the need to gain new players in their results preambles. I don't think GW sees this as something that won't be being sold to new players.

The fact that it's playable out of the box makes it blatantly obvious they aren't trying to only sell to established players. They are also trying to sell to people with no terrain at all

Frankly I'd be fine without the mass battle anti-tank weapons ever returning. It was colossally slowed that they were ever in in the first place.

Totes gonna pick this up at Warhammer World.

And keep a beady eye out for any exclusives

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Frankly I'd be fine without the mass battle anti-tank weapons ever returning. It was colossally slowed that they were ever in in the first place.

The Delaque Lascannon was a prestige weapon. Didn't matter if it completely worthless.

Yes, the 400 Credit Price tag tended to cripple your gang but damn it! Who cares? You had a Lascannon. A Lascannon that could Infiltrate. MWAHAHAHAHA!

Vorian wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Let's not be naive here. Most people will come to Necromunda the way they did the first time, adjacent to 40K.

Most people who pick this game up are going to know what a meltagun is. Most very new players will probably ask "Can I use my Space Marines in this?" before they ask "What's a chainsword?".

These games don't exist in vacuums. They're being sold in GW stores, next to 40K miniatures using (roughly) the same gear.

That's your contention. Made without evidence.

What is a fact is that they have talked about the need to gain new players in their results preambles. I don't think GW sees this as something that won't be being sold to new players.

The fact that it's playable out of the box makes it blatantly obvious they aren't trying to only sell to established players. They are also trying to sell to people with no terrain at all

And I'm sure all of your points would be super-duper relevant if we were talking about what's in the self-contained box, but we're not, we're talking about the Trading Post rules in the supplemental, advanced-rules-containing Gang War book. You know, the bit where they're supposed to be putting all the stuff that wouldn't fit the "self-contained box" strategy.

There is zero reason for the Trading Post rules to lack a complete list of all weapons & gear that will be available except obviously for the gang-specific stuff that will come out with the gangs themselves. None.

We also know it includes rules for Juves and Heavies.

Could we be seeing the incomplete listings? No special or heavy weapons in sight beyond the humble Grenade Launchers.

Looking at the WD, it says Heavies have been changed to Champions/Specialists. Juves are still there though.

And no, those are the complete listings from the books because that's all the kit does. Goliaths can get a Grenade Launcher 'cause it's in their kit.

Legacy stuff will hopefully have expanded rules. The FW upgrades will allow for greater customisation with you being able to take and mix everything, but it's just a shame the core basics aren't in the first campaign expansion book.

 Yodhrin wrote:

Vorian wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Let's not be naive here. Most people will come to Necromunda the way they did the first time, adjacent to 40K.

Most people who pick this game up are going to know what a meltagun is. Most very new players will probably ask "Can I use my Space Marines in this?" before they ask "What's a chainsword?".

These games don't exist in vacuums. They're being sold in GW stores, next to 40K miniatures using (roughly) the same gear.

That's your contention. Made without evidence.

What is a fact is that they have talked about the need to gain new players in their results preambles. I don't think GW sees this as something that won't be being sold to new players.

The fact that it's playable out of the box makes it blatantly obvious they aren't trying to only sell to established players. They are also trying to sell to people with no terrain at all

And I'm sure all of your points would be super-duper relevant if we were talking about what's in the self-contained box, but we're not, we're talking about the Trading Post rules in the supplemental, advanced-rules-containing Gang War book. You know, the bit where they're supposed to be putting all the stuff that wouldn't fit the "self-contained box" strategy.

There is zero reason for the Trading Post rules to lack a complete list of all weapons & gear that will be available except obviously for the gang-specific stuff that will come out with the gangs themselves. None.

If you follow the conversation back you'll see where I talked about how I can understand them only having rules for what's been released because they are catering for new players which resulted in a discussion that ended in that.

It's the same reason that blood bowl only had part of the skills in the main book + deadzone one. They are releasing things as if to a completely new audience.

Then they have the legacy gangs/teams for veteran players. These will no doubt have all the prices for these common items.

Lovely. So I don't just get to pay full price for half the game, but also full price for half the supplemental rules? Yeah, somehow I no longer feel the urge to pre-prder this.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Looking at the WD, it says Heavies have been changed to Champions/Specialists. Juves are still there though.

And no, those are the complete listings from the books because that's all the kit does. Goliaths can get a Grenade Launcher 'cause it's in their kit.

Legacy stuff will hopefully have expanded rules. The FW upgrades will allow for greater customisation with you being able to take and mix everything, but it's just a shame the core basics aren't in the first campaign expansion book.

This seems to have been missed in the trading posts complaints.

Leaders, Champions, Juves are like your characters. They choose advances and can change equipment between battles

Gangers can only roll on a random STAT advance table and can not access skills. They also can't swap equipment - they stay with what they start with

Specialists are gangers that roll a double 6 on an advance and become like a champion/juve with access to choosing advances and skills

I am a bit gutted about the limitations in gear but I am not too surprised. Its been clear this is a different take than the last edition of the game. Plus for me Necro is about friendly games with people I already know with the aim of telling a good story, if someone wants a melta or a stubber or whatever I am sure we can adapt till the rest of the rules/kits are out.

Vorian wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Looking at the WD, it says Heavies have been changed to Champions/Specialists. Juves are still there though.

And no, those are the complete listings from the books because that's all the kit does. Goliaths can get a Grenade Launcher 'cause it's in their kit.

Legacy stuff will hopefully have expanded rules. The FW upgrades will allow for greater customisation with you being able to take and mix everything, but it's just a shame the core basics aren't in the first campaign expansion book.

This seems to have been missed in the trading posts complaints.

Leaders, Champions, Juves are like your characters. They choose advances and can change equipment between battles

Gangers can only roll on a random STAT advance table and can not access skills. They also can't swap equipment - they stay with what they start with

Specialists are gangers that roll a double 6 on an advance and become like a champion/juve with access to choosing advances and skills

Sounds like they part ported over the Mordheim approach. Leader, Champs and Youngbloods all levelled up as per Necromunda. But Henchmen was far more limited, and rolled for as a group’s (if you’d bought them as groups). They still got quite hard, and could roll ‘That Lad’s Got Talent’, making one of that group a Champion.

I’m intrigued.

Remember, this seems to be the result of Andy Hoare’s near 20 years of constant tinkering and house ruling,

Oh boy i loved mordheim's character system.

I am now more interested in these gangs - i was going to wait for Van Saars and the rulebook being released separately like Blood Bowl did through the app.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


Could we be seeing the incomplete listings? No special or heavy weapons in sight beyond the humble Grenade Launchers.

The only known heavy weapon at the moment is Goliath Rivet gun.



The Escher fart thrower is still consider a special weapon.



Kitbashing those Escher are gonna be painful, the wrist are probably smaller than GSC or SM hand.

Still easier than doing it with the metal models.

Dark Eldar might be the best source for alternative arms.