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 Strg Alt wrote:
Idk, apparently Necromunda is only good for vets who enjoyed it immensely twenty years ago.

I suspect that vets will not be among the early adopters. They've been playing the same game for twenty years and don't see anything wrong with it, so they are going to be overly critical about every change and complain loudly every time they have to spend money to buy anything (especially if it replaces something they already had and works fine dagnabbit). They'll find legacy gang rules to be a half measure that doesn't go far enough, losing value that the gangs used to have while lacking value that the new gangs have by virtue of being part of the new system. Are the new figures a different scale? Where's the heavy weapons? Why do I have to wait until 2018 for my gang to be released? And 2D terrain? Are they fething nuts?!?! Basically, the new Necromunda is going to piss off old Necromunda fans something fierce.

The early adopters will largely be people who are okay with trying new and different things, who don't see 2D tiles as an affront to the Necromunda of the past, and don't have twenty years of expectations and baggage.

I would take years of continued support over the 6 gangs being there on day one and it being forgotten about.

It's obviously a side project for GW, it'll continue to grow as the releases come along.

I am surprised if they said they weren't going to do the Enforcers at all, since that's the first thing everyone asks and they've mentioned doing them in the live streams

Vorian wrote:

I am surprised if they said they weren't going to do the Enforcers at all, since that's the first thing everyone asks and they've mentioned doing them in the live streams

Maybe they are worried about them being thinly veiled Judge Dredd rip offs...

But that's intentional and always has been. Hell, GW used to sell and promote a Judge Dredd game. This is nothing new. This was back when Judge Dredd was a relatively new IP as well.

Every ones sad about that Enforcers line, except we have confirmation they are getting released, so what if they are double bluffing and we are going to get a small "army" release for them, couple of boxed sets, a riot tank etc as allies for Imperial armies?

Bummed they're dragging out the extra gangs so long. Wish there had been more to choose from right near the start like with Bloodbowl and Shadespire.

The Enforcers don’t go down to the Underhive…
Of Hive Primaris.

There is another entire Hive full of Enforcers on Necromunda, all of whom are fighting to keep the Clan Houses out of their little pocket of democratic idyll….

Aka “we already planned for an entire other campaign setting in case we decided Enforcers were popular enough for a kit.”

I'm digging those new Orlocks (well except the respirator heads....they will get swapped for Skitari Vanguard heads, which look suitably enough like miner equipment). The scum look extra nice also.... they will definitely get picked up. I'm rather bummed there will be a gang war for every gang, that is some hardcore nickel and diming. I'm hoping each book at least contains a bunch of new scenarios.

Sorry to see so many giving up on Newcromunda so soon. Here’s how I see it: While I might not like the sales strategy, I really like having Necromunda and everything that entails. So I will support the release because I know that if I want to see more of this kind of stuff made, it’s going to have to make money. Now it seems to me that there are folks content to let it fail, but I suspect many of the same will complain about why this type of stuff doesn’t get supported by GW. Seems rather contradictory. You want cool different stuff that explores other parts of the background, but won’t buy it because xyz. I know this isn’t everyone, but it’s a bummer because I want to see more of this from Gdubs, not less.

Fair enough point Dread Master. I was personally hoping there would only be three Gang War books, and I can definitely understand the frustration of those that will not be buying because of the sale strategy. That said, I will be picking up the Orlocks and the new Gang War book, because I love Necromunda and this new edition seems awesome so far. I may not pick up every gang, but will end up with every Gang War book I'm sure. It does help that I only play two miniatures games though (at least that are alive and have releases), so a thirty dollar supplement to me every three months is not a big deal.

Dread Master wrote:
Sorry to see so many giving up on Newcromunda so soon. Here’s how I see it: While I might not like the sales strategy, I really like having Necromunda and everything that entails. So I will support the release because I know that if I want to see more of this kind of stuff made, it’s going to have to make money. Now it seems to me that there are folks content to let it fail, but I suspect many of the same will complain about why this type of stuff doesn’t get supported by GW. Seems rather contradictory. You want cool different stuff that explores other parts of the background, but won’t buy it because xyz. I know this isn’t everyone, but it’s a bummer because I want to see more of this from Gdubs, not less.

Yeah it's amazing to see such unique and characterful non space marine models being released. I can support it for that alone, it feels way more wacky and creative and interesting than ordinary 40k. I plan on getting the Orlocks, tiles and expansion book in Feb. With it coming out that far away it means I wont have trouble with spending too much money at once. The models are great..which surprised me cause Orlocks were always my least favorite. I wonder if the Orlocks box will contain pre named/armed character cards just like we got for Escher/Goliaths.

 AduroT wrote:
Bummed they're dragging out the extra gangs so long. Wish there had been more to choose from right near the start like with Bloodbowl and Shadespire.

The Owner of my LGS told me that GW has promised store owners 18 months of support for Necromunda. Apparently there has been reluctant to buy into the specialist games by LGS and it's effecting the overall success of the game launches.

I have seen many good games fail because LGS owners just don't bother with them. They just buy 3-4 boxes and let it rot in the shelves.

But at the end of the day, why should them try to push a product when they can just sell Warhammer40k and MTG cards without any kind of effort?

18 months of support? Gosh. Too bad 2/3rds of that are going to be 'get the basic game fully released.' Dribbling out the basics once per quarter.

With apparently $150 dollars of additional rulebooks, because obviously every 10 or so models need a dedicated $30 book to make them usable. This is crazy stuff

Just to add a bit from the "dissapointed crowd" perspective: I was hyped on this since the very first rumours and SW:A announced. I'm not that much interested in new model releases, because I have vintage gangs and made enough conversions to be content with what I have, so "drip feeding" gangs is not much of a concern for me. But...

I was really, really dissapointed that first Gang War comes without core rules. Then I got disapointed further when campaign rules and trading post release scheme leaked and instead of "solid core book with interesting add-ons later on" scheme of releases like in the '90, we got uncomplete premiere with things like Gang Tactics cards "modern approach" "pseudocollectibles" added into the game. Then we got info about GW2 and more tiles, meaning that GW's inteded mode of gameplay with this is far from what Necromunda was all about back in the '90. "Classic 3D mode" looks more like a nod for the veterans at this point.

And for those of you that argue, that "old veterans will complain, because they don't want to adapt to modern game design" - I have perfectly playable, enjoyable oldmunda which I play bi-weekly with a closed group of old Necro fans. I have been presented with an uncomplete game, that do not even get close to malleability of the COMPLETE old material and won't get close to it for at least another year, more probably two... All that while costing a lot in not justifiable purchases. It is nothing about game design, it's is all about release model which simply does not fit "revisited" but still "live" franchise...

And "legacy rules" are simply joke knowing how shallow SW:A was compared to oldmunda and seeing how similiar those composition rules and wargear lists are...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well, those "18 months of support" with first 12 needed to cover six basic gangs and a couple of independed characters from Forgeworld seem that there is hardly any reason to believe, that "newmunda" will outgrow "oldmunda" at any point... Sad.

Chopstick wrote:

 Dryaktylus wrote:
Got a Christmas card from GW today with a special tactic card (Unterwelt-Beben - I suppose the translation is something like (Under)Hive Quake).

Doesn't seem too great

I wasn't lucky enough to get the free card in my GW Christmas card which arrived today but I rarely order from the online store so might not have qualified.

I could see the card being quite useful for a high Initiative gang who are likely to pass all the tests (I haven't seen the other cards yet to compare) and may benefit more shooting orientated gangs by making the Zone Mortalis boards more open and restricting number of ladders on a 3D board.

Van Saar loosely described as somewhere between the originals, and Infinity models. Think body glove with interlocking playing etc.

nou wrote:

I was really, really dissapointed that first Gang War comes without core rules. Then I got disapointed further when campaign rules and trading post release scheme leaked and instead of "solid core book with interesting add-ons later on" scheme of releases like in the '90, we got uncomplete premiere with things like Gang Tactics cards "modern approach" "pseudocollectibles" added into the game. Then we got info about GW2 and more tiles, meaning that GW's inteded mode of gameplay with this is far from what Necromunda was all about back in the '90. "Classic 3D mode" looks more like a nod for the veterans at this point.

I think skirmish games reach a saturation point much earlier than larger army based games like 40k. You only need a handful of models so how do you support an ongoing game system when nobody actually needs to buy anything? All the currently successful skirmish games have some sort of trick needed to change the relevancy of the models and encourage people to buy more. X-Wing packages upgrade cards with new models, Infinity constantly changes the ITS rules to change which models are important, The Walking Dead has an ongoing campaign which encourages getting the new releases, and so on. Not too familiar with Malifaux, but I think it may be a combo heavy game where changing one model necessitates changing the makeup of your entire team. Again, not super familiar with it.

Necromunda, to become a game which thrives over at least 18 months, needs to have a reason for players to keep buying Necromunda material. If all the old grognards, with their already complete gangs, only had to buy a single rulebook, how exactly would Necromunda survive for more than the opening weekend? GW is creating a niche game that they expect to be a third pillar (in addition to 40k and AoS), so they need to keep people buying stuff. Ideally, it is by providing new stuff that they want. And GW is doing that with new tactics decks, scenery (both tiles and sector mechanicus), gang war supplements, hired gun characters, and eventually weapon sprues to update old models. The majority of this is what a new player of Necromunda would want, and it is necessary for the health of the game over a long period of time. Old school players want to use what they already have and don't want to buy anything new. You can't build a franchise on top of players who won't actually buy anything.

I admit that the gang war supplements feel a bit too expensive, especially if they are going to release them quarterly with the new gangs, but I love the idea of a constantly updating rulebook that keeps add new toys to play with and things to do. Just when you get tired of playing the game one way, a new supplement comes out and adds new tiles, new tactics, new weapons, new gangs, and new rules. The only problem I have with the gang war supplements is that they are about $10 too expensive - but complaining about GW products being a wee bit too expensive seems a bit trite at this point.

And for those of you that argue, that "old veterans will complain, because they don't want to adapt to modern game design" - I have perfectly playable, enjoyable oldmunda which I play bi-weekly with a closed group of old Necro fans. I have been presented with an uncomplete game, that do not even get close to malleability of the COMPLETE old material and won't get close to it for at least another year, more probably two... All that while costing a lot in not justifiable purchases. It is nothing about game design, it's is all about release model which simply does not fit "revisited" but still "live" franchise...

With all due respect, you obviously have no intention of buying the new Necromunda models or supplements, so why do you take it so personally when GW instead targets the new Necromunda towards those who will?

 Sqorgar wrote:

Necromunda, to become a game which thrives over at least 18 months, needs to have a reason for players to keep buying Necromunda material. If all the old grognards, with their already complete gangs, only had to buy a single rulebook, how exactly would Necromunda survive for more than the opening weekend? GW is creating a niche game that they expect to be a third pillar (in addition to 40k and AoS), so they need to keep people buying stuff. Ideally, it is by providing new stuff that they want. And GW is doing that with new tactics decks, scenery (both tiles and sector mechanicus), gang war supplements, hired gun characters, and eventually weapon sprues to update old models. The majority of this is what a new player of Necromunda would want, and it is necessary for the health of the game over a long period of time. Old school players want to use what they already have and don't want to buy anything new. You can't build a franchise on top of players who won't actually buy anything.

I entirely disagree with this premise. The new stuff that would have sold is new models. Yes, even to the old grognards. Even independently of how absolutely terrible the release model is, and how baffling the rules separation is, I'll still likely buy the Orlock gang (despite despising the originals and having absolutely no interest in this trainwreck) because the new Orlock models are amazing (unlike most GW models, they actually look like people, with a reasonable and authentic aesthetic).

But the health of the game is really dependent on it being functional and buyable as a game, not a series of crazy marketing gimmicks.


And as a note, it can't both be a niche game AND a third pillar. That simply doesn't fly- if it's one of those, it is by definition not the other.

Voss wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:

Necromunda, to become a game which thrives over at least 18 months, needs to have a reason for players to keep buying Necromunda material. If all the old grognards, with their already complete gangs, only had to buy a single rulebook, how exactly would Necromunda survive for more than the opening weekend? GW is creating a niche game that they expect to be a third pillar (in addition to 40k and AoS), so they need to keep people buying stuff. Ideally, it is by providing new stuff that they want. And GW is doing that with new tactics decks, scenery (both tiles and sector mechanicus), gang war supplements, hired gun characters, and eventually weapon sprues to update old models. The majority of this is what a new player of Necromunda would want, and it is necessary for the health of the game over a long period of time. Old school players want to use what they already have and don't want to buy anything new. You can't build a franchise on top of players who won't actually buy anything.

I entirely disagree with this premise. The new stuff that would have sold is new models. Yes, even to the old grognards. Even independently of how absolutely terrible the release model is, and how baffling the rules separation is, I'll still likely buy the Orlock gang (despite despising the originals and having absolutely no interest in this trainwreck) because the new Orlock models are amazing (unlike most GW models, they actually look like people, with a reasonable and authentic aesthetic).

But the health of the game is really dependent on it being functional and buyable as a game, not a series of crazy marketing gimmicks.


And as a note, it can't both be a niche game AND a third pillar. That simply doesn't fly- if it's one of those, it is by definition not the other.

Well said, agree. I'm a grognard but would have bought in. All the reviewers struggling to find any praise isn't filling me with hope. Shan't be investing if it'll be two years before the game is complete. It sadly feels set up to fail by GW.

I know I'm not terribly interested in Escher or Goliath. Those Orlocks look cool though. I probably won't bother buying into the game until they come out.

 Galas wrote:
Yeah. I see how Escher and Goliath are more crazy, but this guys right here are beautifull. Theres always need to be one "generic" group so the rest can be compared to them and think "Yeah they are crazy". Orlocks are the "generic" gang, but as others have said, being generic makes them special.

The Scum in the other hand? I love it. That woman with the mask? Is just... one of the better sculpts FW has ever done.

Yeah both Rules wise and look wise Orlock is supposed to be "middle of the road". Not excelling at one thing, but being able to dable in everything.


What I like about the Orlocks is that they look more or less like the Generic hive gangers we saw in alot of the FF 40k RPG books. They got this "Generic 40k" look, that means they would look at home as everything from Imperial Guard Regiments, to chaos and Genestealer Cultists. They also aren't Gene Hulked goliaths or Amazons in heels esher, witch means they will prob kitbash across the normal 40k range abit better.


Edit: Early 2018 dossen't sound like stretching things out TBH, because GW doesn't usually release a lot of *new*stuff in December. Instead focusing on stocking stuffer and bundle releases for the holidays. If early 2018 means January or Early Feb then that sounds about right for a release to me TBH. Not to mention we got free legacy rules right NOW for playing our old gangs till they come out.

Most of Orlocks guns seem to have drum casings. Gorgeous.

Waiting for Van Saar, hope they're next.

Played 2 games of the first Zone Mortalis scenario today. Was fun, but the Eschers got totally crushed both times (and we swapped gangs after game 1).

 Sqorgar wrote:

nou wrote:

I was really, really dissapointed that first Gang War comes without core rules. Then I got disapointed further when campaign rules and trading post release scheme leaked and instead of "solid core book with interesting add-ons later on" scheme of releases like in the '90, we got uncomplete premiere with things like Gang Tactics cards "modern approach" "pseudocollectibles" added into the game. Then we got info about GW2 and more tiles, meaning that GW's inteded mode of gameplay with this is far from what Necromunda was all about back in the '90. "Classic 3D mode" looks more like a nod for the veterans at this point.

I think skirmish games reach a saturation point much earlier than larger army based games like 40k. You only need a handful of models so how do you support an ongoing game system when nobody actually needs to buy anything? All the currently successful skirmish games have some sort of trick needed to change the relevancy of the models and encourage people to buy more. X-Wing packages upgrade cards with new models, Infinity constantly changes the ITS rules to change which models are important, The Walking Dead has an ongoing campaign which encourages getting the new releases, and so on. Not too familiar with Malifaux, but I think it may be a combo heavy game where changing one model necessitates changing the makeup of your entire team. Again, not super familiar with it.

Necromunda, to become a game which thrives over at least 18 months, needs to have a reason for players to keep buying Necromunda material. If all the old grognards, with their already complete gangs, only had to buy a single rulebook, how exactly would Necromunda survive for more than the opening weekend? GW is creating a niche game that they expect to be a third pillar (in addition to 40k and AoS), so they need to keep people buying stuff. Ideally, it is by providing new stuff that they want. And GW is doing that with new tactics decks, scenery (both tiles and sector mechanicus), gang war supplements, hired gun characters, and eventually weapon sprues to update old models. The majority of this is what a new player of Necromunda would want, and it is necessary for the health of the game over a long period of time. Old school players want to use what they already have and don't want to buy anything new. You can't build a franchise on top of players who won't actually buy anything.

I admit that the gang war supplements feel a bit too expensive, especially if they are going to release them quarterly with the new gangs, but I love the idea of a constantly updating rulebook that keeps add new toys to play with and things to do. Just when you get tired of playing the game one way, a new supplement comes out and adds new tiles, new tactics, new weapons, new gangs, and new rules. The only problem I have with the gang war supplements is that they are about $10 too expensive - but complaining about GW products being a wee bit too expensive seems a bit trite at this point.

And for those of you that argue, that "old veterans will complain, because they don't want to adapt to modern game design" - I have perfectly playable, enjoyable oldmunda which I play bi-weekly with a closed group of old Necro fans. I have been presented with an uncomplete game, that do not even get close to malleability of the COMPLETE old material and won't get close to it for at least another year, more probably two... All that while costing a lot in not justifiable purchases. It is nothing about game design, it's is all about release model which simply does not fit "revisited" but still "live" franchise...

With all due respect, you obviously have no intention of buying the new Necromunda models or supplements, so why do you take it so personally when GW instead targets the new Necromunda towards those who will?

I'm not interested in buying anything but the scenery (I love Sector Mechanicus system) ANYMORE at this point. I bought SW:A, I was intending to buy rulebook/s and "switch" to new system, maybe buy some new special characters that would catch my eye or a new, fresh gang that isn't a remake and has no old rules, that kind of support from me GW could get. And maybe they will, in those 18 months, come up with something that will make me switch editions, who knows. But "card system" simply doesn't fit my needs, locked equipment on gangers and such small trading post kills this campaign system for me, at least for another 6-12 months. If I get into a game I play it often, so deep campaign system from day one is what I wanted. And what I still have in oldmunda.

My point isn't personal, it is quite lareg bafflement on how GW is approaching competing WITH ITSELF... Oldcromunda is alive and well and appealing to the old crowd more would do a lot in department of actually playing this game at FLGSs... Dripping one gang at a time isn't really what I would call "continuous support" - how many players are in need on more than one or two large enough gangs? Growing healthy, varied community, promoting a game with missions, add-ons (not vital but divided content) is what drives ongoing sales. And GW just released crippled game to compete with it's own old, fully grown game... The result (how we can witness it even in this very thread) is dividing a niche game fanbase into two quite separate groups instead of "feeding on old bloods" to boost new system...

I made a quick and dirty sheet of necromunda fighter cards in 2 min in clipart. This should be sized properly for US letter and A4 paper. I plan to make something nicer latter tonight, but this is the quick and dirty for playing necromunda right now. ;3

https://imgur.com/a/XAruz

edit:
Note: I don't have a printer ATM to test print, but if I did it right should work no problem. Their is going to be artifacting on them because like I said this was "quick and dirty". I need to make something nice from scratch latter.

 Lockark wrote:
I made a quick and dirty sheet of necromunda fighter cards for 2 min in clipart. This should be sized properly for US letter and A4 paper. I plan to make something nicer latter tonight, but this is the quick and dirty for playing necromunda right now. ;3

https://imgur.com/a/XAruz

Thanks!

 Lockark wrote:
I made a quick and dirty sheet of necromunda fighter cards in 2 min in clipart. This should be sized properly for US letter and A4 paper. I plan to make something nicer latter tonight, but this is the quick and dirty for playing necromunda right now. ;3

https://imgur.com/a/XAruz

edit:
Note: I don't have a printer ATM to test print, but if I did it right should work no problem. Their is going to be artifacting on them because like I said this was "quick and dirty". I need to make something nice from scratch latter.

Thanks for doing this! I'm sure I'll get a lot of use out of it down the road.

 Knight wrote:
Most of Orlocks guns seem to have drum casings. Gorgeous.

Waiting for Van Saar, hope they're next.

I think they are. Got a description of their models.

So leadership is pretty much a pointless stat, bar a couple of skills what use is it!? Why didn’t the designers use a leadership check within the group activation mechanic and bottle tests.