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I think the point still stands though. 'Oh that sword on all my guardians? those are just representing ritual blades with no game effect.' WYS is not WYG.

 grouchoben wrote:
I think the point still stands though. 'Oh that sword on all my guardians? those are just representing ritual blades with no game effect.' WYS is not WYG.

Well, technically, even Guardian Defenders come stock with a melee weapon, just like even other model in the game.
Simple knives and plain swords represent this well, even if it could confuse them with Storm Guardians. But if you're confused by the different between the standard firearm (Catapult) and Pistol, which should be the TRUE difference between the 2 units, than maybe WYSIWYG isn't the standard in which you should go by.

-

When people say that the weapon that figure is holding is a knife I can't help but think of Crocodile Dundee. That thing is as big as lot of other models swords.

 Lord Perversor wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Not a tactics question but a model question- In the codex it states that a spiritseer can only have a pistol and a staff. The model from the wake the dead set has a staff and a sword. WtF? At least we know that GW doesn't believe in WYSIWYG for 40K any more.

It represents the plain basic combat weapon that every model is equipped should they lack a weapon.

Either way it was also clearly mentioned in the Wake the Dead warcom article as just representing a ritual knife with almost no effect in game.

Wasnt that just an excuse they came up with because they pulled a reverse GW on accident? They built a model without proper rules! Lmao.

Just kidding!

It looks cool. Leave it alone!

How are you all liking Swooping hawks this edition?

They seem to put out a ton of anti infantry firepower, and have the ability to dish out mortal wounds as well. Plus they are fast!

They don't seem to be very expensive points wise, either.

Am I missing something as to why they aren't seen more often?

Guardians put out similar dakka and cheaper, maybe?

Hawks are fun to play. The ton of anti-infantry firepower is more like a wet towel, though. Yes it's a lot of dice, but low strength and no ap, so actual effect is minor. They also die to a stiff breeze. The comparison to Guardians isn't quite fitting though, while Guardians do compare (favorably) in the anti infantry role, Hawks get to move quicker or utterly redeploy and deepstrike again.

How more often do you want to see them, Hawks been here and there even in tournament lists since Codex came out? They're a bit fragile for their points (especially after scatbikes got cheaper) but are still a good support unit.

Hawks are cheap per 5 man squad, i always take 1 squad of them, sometimes 2. If you don't know what your facing they can be invaluable. Vs another t3 army like de or harliquens or guard they can kill a squad of chaff quickly and not be a big loss when they die. Vs tougher opponents (t4 guys and higher) i use them as speed bumps or t3 objective grabbers.

They fit into most armies and are cheap enough to not be a big issue, but they wont win you a game on their own and may do nothing of importance.

Sterling191 wrote:

 Gangrel767 wrote:

When the spear is thrown it's at STR 9.

It still has the "wound on 2" property in its shooting profile.

Yes its weird.

whoa...

Not sure how I feel about hawks.
I would like to run 3 blobs of 10 msu and throw in a quicken to see how many mortal wounds can be done.

"Swooping Hawks can
fire a spread of grenades when they are set up on the
battlefield using the Children of Baharroth ability and
as they fly over enemy units in the Movement phase.
..
Then, in either case, roll one dice for
each model in the enemy unit (up to a maximum of one
dice for each model in the Swooping Hawks unit). For
each roll of a 6 the enemy unit suffers a mortal wound."


I assume you couldn't potentially use your move+ advance in a way that would allow you to double back on yourself in order to pass over a unit twice? I cant remember what the movement core rules state or if it specifically states this at all of the top of my head.

Also, if you fly over 1 enemy model you only roll one dice even if you have a 5 man unit? Not sure how to read the rule.

Totaly unrelated, my mad battle plans are slowly taking shape.. 'Im taking 2 vibro cannons out for a spin on friday

Also, if you fly over 1 enemy model you only roll one dice even if you have a 5 man unit?

Yes.

Yeah I though so...very weak.

Also if you fly over 2 units I assume you can bomb them both?

Just re-read the rule?

its not very obvious. 'Units' implies plural but you never know with GW...

"After unit has moved, pick one enemy unit that they flew over".

To me, the last part of rule seemed written in a bit convoluted way, but basically it makes sense if you explain it as: no more rolls than models in enemy unit, and no more than Hawks in a unit.

And yes the rule is one of those roll 6 for something awesome to happen and Hawks are probably too expensive because of it. I'd prefer they just get their plasma and haywire grenades back and the rule just did extra d6 autohits with plasma grenade profile or something like that. Would give them a nice edge in clearing hordes.

Thoughts on Support Batteries with Vibro Cannons?
Lots of Vibro Cannons?

Just got the Dex (I know, late to the party) and am looking at stuff and things.

I'm having fun with wraithguard. Just for general info my FLGS plays at the 1250 level. So I built a Battalion using wraithguard as my primary weapon. Cover and Protect make them pretty nasty and Fortune takes them to an 11. I use 2 spirit seers as my warlocks since I also have 2 Wraithlords in the list as well.

My question is why don't I/we see more lists with wraithguard? Granted they don't have battle focus but they have T6 and 3W each. It seems to me that they should be pretty common. What am I missing, if anything?

JNAProductions wrote:Thoughts on Support Batteries with Vibro Cannons?
Lots of Vibro Cannons?

Just got the Dex (I know, late to the party) and am looking at stuff and things.

I will let you know tomorrow, I'm using 2x vibros in a 1300pts game vs deathguard. I like the idea of them on paper and cant wait to them out. What appeals the most is the subsequent shots buffing and the potential to deny a unit its advance move. Could be huge vs some armies and it also pumps out d3 shots d3dmg with ap in its own right.

I really like the look of them and shadow weavers I have 3 platforms 2 of 2hich are built and im hoping to be running these for a cheap spearhead/eldrad detachment.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:I'm having fun with wraithguard. Just for general info my FLGS plays at the 1250 level. So I built a Battalion using wraithguard as my primary weapon. Cover and Protect make them pretty nasty and Fortune takes them to an 11. I use 2 spirit seers as my warlocks since I also have 2 Wraithlords in the list as well.

My question is why don't I/we see more lists with wraithguard? Granted they don't have battle focus but they have T6 and 3W each. It seems to me that they should be pretty common. What am I missing, if anything?

I personally rate guard. Very durable and can hide in a serpent or webway. I have a unit of 5 magnetized and I have used them in every battle. The blades are probably my favourite go to variant.
Casting enhance + supreme disdain strat in the last game was glorious... all of the rolls! Also can look at psytronome and vigilius detatchement.

In the future im planning on running a blob of 10 axes and have them march up the table/drop in from web way and hopefully attract all the fire power to see how durable they will be.
Wraith guard with protect/conceal/fortune walking down the field sounds awesome!!!

I would say stay away from D-scythes... Massive points sink and dmg output is terrible with only 1dmg and 8"range. If they were d6/d3 dmg It would make sense..

Also, is there a general tactics summary in this thread anywhere?

 JNAProductions wrote:
Also, is there a general tactics summary in this thread anywhere?

Not sure what you mean?
You can read back through the previous pages discussing tactics and units which might be beneficial, caveat being various things/tactics that have been discussed which would be beneficial but as rules are tweaked some tactics and tips might be invalid by now.

You could ask how you should use specific units, which units are strong and ask for strengths and weaknesses. I.E. post an army list and ask what people think and if you know who you are playing what target priority should be etc.

The next best thing would be to watch some CWE battle reports.

Bottom line is there is no substitute for experience with your army/lists.

 Argive wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Also, is there a general tactics summary in this thread anywhere?

Not sure what you mean?
You can read back through the previous pages discussing tactics and units which might be beneficial, caveat being various things/tactics that have been discussed which would be beneficial but as rules are tweaked some tactics and tips might be invalid by now.

You could ask how you should use specific units, which units are strong and ask for strengths and weaknesses. I.E. post an army list and ask what people think and if you know who you are playing what target priority should be etc.

The next best thing would be to watch some CWE battle reports.

Bottom line is there is no substitute for experience with your army/lists.

I mean something like a unit-by-unit breakdown of what's good, what's bad, etc.

Or a general summary of what's been found to be effective. It's cool if that's not there.

I see. You wont find a handy format like this on this thread unfortunately. Might find some breakdowns on YouTube.

However you could read back through the pages of the thread going back to about Dec2018/Jan 2019 (CA 2018) and read through the various discussions. All units would have been discussed at some stage with people saying how they like to use them and giving tips.

Do you have an army already or are you looking to start ?

I love me some D-Scythe wraithguard.

I have a list with 16 of them in Waveserpents. Its like an overload of tank type targets, because you really need to hit Wraithguard with antitank guns if you wanna take them out quickly.

The wraithcannons don't really interest me as it makes them so one-dimensional. The D-scythes only do a little bit worse vs vehicles and such, but obviously far better against smaller targets. When using the cannons I found they tended to get swarmed by infantry if my opponent couldn't shoot them to death, and even though you can fall back and still shoot, the screen is usually enough to block off my ability to get at the bigger targets they actually want to shoot.

The Dscythes have no such issue. If someone wants to charge them, they first have to eat some of the nastiest overwatch in the game, usually enough to pretty much wipe a squad of Guardsmen or Firewarriors for example. Much more difficult to put away and block because they're also more mobile, you can always advance and fire without any penalty, which mitigates the shorter range. More expensive of course, but I'd rather pay more points and do something than take the cannons and do nothing, I tried and just couldn't make them work.

What really makes it work IMO, whatever type you take, is that you have notoriously tough Wave Serpents full of powerful offensive units. Your opponent has to decide between waiting until they bail out and eating a round of nasty shooting at point blank, or committing to taking out the wave serpents before they get close which is super hard and pretty much a waste of their firepower in most instances. I find I win nearly every game when my opponent tries killing multiple wave serpents instead of my other stuff.

Wraithblades don't really interest me, but I see a lot of people doing great things with them using the wraith-host detachment.

Spartacus wrote:
I love me some D-Scythe wraithguard.

I have a list with 16 of them in Waveserpents. Its like an overload of tank type targets, because you really need to hit Wraithguard with antitank guns if you wanna take them out quickly.

The wraithcannons don't really interest me as it makes them so one-dimensional. The D-scythes only do a little bit worse vs vehicles and such, but obviously far better against smaller targets. When using the cannons I found they tended to get swarmed by infantry if my opponent couldn't shoot them to death, and even though you can fall back and still shoot, the screen is usually enough to block off my ability to get at the bigger targets they actually want to shoot.

The Dscythes have no such issue. If someone wants to charge them, they first have to eat some of the nastiest overwatch in the game, usually enough to pretty much wipe a squad of Guardsmen or Firewarriors for example. Much more difficult to put away. More expensive of course, but I'd rather pay more points and do something than take the cannons and do nothing, I tried and just couldn't make them work.

Wraithblades don't really interest me, but I see a lot of people doing great things with them using the wraith-host detachment.

I get it i really do.

For me is the opposite though.
A lot of Yanden stratagems and relics (plus the wraithhost detachment!!) focus on getting your wraith into combat.

To me wraithblades could become litterally beast with some support!

Copied form 1d4chan:

Wraithblades have 2 attacks Therefore you get 2 attacks ×2 due to Psytronome, then +1 due to charge, then +1 due to Ghostswords making in total 6 attacks

Plus the stratagem from wraith host that makes 7 attack, you can use another stratagem to make them reroll the hits, you can move with the warlock powers you can give the 4++ invulnerable that becomes 3++ again with powers.

The Dscythes imho have too short of a range to be effective and sometimes they can't do any overwatch If the enemy is more than 8".

You need something like 5 vibros to actually make their rule worth it.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Also, is there a general tactics summary in this thread anywhere?

https://spikeybits.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/eldar-battle.png

Yeah absolutely, the rules interactions make a Wraithblade star absolutely beastly.

I just meant the models themselves don't really interest me, I much prefer the shooty ones.

Never had a problem with making the 8 inch range work, like I said always put them in Wave serpents and always advance, use the stratagem if you have to. If they don't get much overwatch because the enemy is far away, no matter, they might not make the charge, and its not like the wraithcannons hitting on 6's are worth much more by comparison.

Spartacus wrote:
Yeah absolutely, the rules interactions make a Wraithblade star absolutely beastly.

I just meant the models themselves don't really interest me, I much prefer the shooty ones.

Never had a problem with making the 8 inch range work, like I said always put them in Wave serpents and always advance, use the stratagem if you have to. If they don't get much overwatch because the enemy is far away, no matter, they might not make the charge, and its not like the wraithcannons hitting on 6's are worth much more by comparison.

Got it my guy!

My point was: to me the wraithguards are not competitive as the wraithblades but than again if i were in a competitive setting i would take shining spears instead, they fill a similar role in my opinion

I like to only have 1 unit of 10 D-Cannons that way I can maximize my psykers. In the list I was talking about I also have a warlock with quicken if I really need to get the wraiths somewhere but he's usually used to get my Avengers to an objective. My list is also pure Ulthwe so the detachment doesn't work for me.

To me, blades are too expensive. For the 45 points they each cost I can get 3 Banshees + change (I prefer the Axe with the 4++ option). The normal wraithguard don't do too badly in HtH if they need to be there but since a person can't tie them down I'm not really worried about it.

This is my list:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [61 PL, 8CP, 994pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot [8CP] +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Craftworld Attribute: Ulthwe: Foresight of the Damned

Detachment CP [5CP]

+ HQ [7 PL, 142pts] +

Autarch [4 PL, 77pts]: 2: An Eye on Distant Events, Craftworlds Warlord, Forceshield [6pts], Star Glaive [6pts]
. Shimmerplume of Achillrial

Spiritseer [3 PL, 65pts]: 4. Protect/Jinx, Shuriken Pistol

+ Troops [18 PL, 258pts] +

Dire Avengers [6 PL, 69pts]
. 5x Dire Avenger [55pts]: 5x Avenger Shuriken Catapult [15pts]
. Dire Avenger Exarch [14pts]: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults [6pts]

Dire Avengers [6 PL, 69pts]
. 5x Dire Avenger [55pts]: 5x Avenger Shuriken Catapult [15pts]
. Dire Avenger Exarch [14pts]: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults [6pts]

Rangers [6 PL, 120pts]: 10x Ranger [120pts]

+ Elites [20 PL, 380pts] +

Wraithguard [20 PL, 380pts]: Wraithcannon [150pts], 10x Wraithguard [230pts]

+ Heavy Support [16 PL, 214pts] +

Wraithlord [8 PL, 107pts]: Flamer [6pts], Flamer [6pts], Ghostglaive [10pts]

Wraithlord [8 PL, 107pts]: Flamer [6pts], Flamer [6pts], Ghostglaive [10pts]

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [13 PL, 1CP, 255pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot [1CP] +

Craftworld Attribute: Ulthwe: Foresight of the Damned

Detachment CP [1CP]

+ HQ [13 PL, 255pts] +

Eldrad Ulthran [8 PL, 135pts]: 1. Guide, 2. Doom, 3. Fortune

Spiritseer [3 PL, 65pts]: 1. Conceal/Reveal, Shuriken Pistol

Warlock [2 PL, 55pts]: 5. Quicken/Restrain, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

++ Total: [74 PL, 9CP, 1,249pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

I use the Autarch to lead the Wraithlords into HtH since he can't be shot with overwatch and the lords can really lay into units.

Since we're talking wraiths, the new changes to the wraithseer has practically made the wraithlord worthless. For just a few points more than the wraithlord with sword he gets so much more it's just silly. Planning on converting 2 of my WLs into Seers.