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Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Does anyone use the Phoenix Lords in competitive lists? Usually all I see are casters and autarchs. Is there some reason that we don't see the PLs?

I'm thinking of using Fuegan and Jan Zair to supplement my fire dragon and banshee contingents. Fuegan acts like an autarch for shooting purposes and JZ gives my banshees "always strikes first". These seem like worthwhile effects in addition to each model's own combat prowess.

Anyway just curious as to other peoples experiences.

I have found Maugan Ra to be quite useful. He has a certain varied utility that just helps. Even better if you are running Reapers as he can babysit them while doing damage on his own.

Asurman with empower has five attacks doing d3 mortals on 5+ wound rolls in addition to the normal damage so he's a great beatstick.
I'd like to try him in conjunction with some shining spears to give them an invulnerable in melee as well as against shooting, could be nice.
Jain zar could be a good addition with her -1 to hit debuff too.

kingheff wrote:
Asurman with empower has five attacks doing d3 mortals on 5+ wound rolls in addition to the normal damage so he's a great beatstick.
I'd like to try him in conjunction with some shining spears to give them an invulnerable in melee as well as against shooting, could be nice.
Jain zar could be a good addition with her -1 to hit debuff too.

Asurman also gives Crimson Hunter's a 5++. I mean you'll rarely if ever have the flyers in range but it's pretty funny to me.

 Eldarsif wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Does anyone use the Phoenix Lords in competitive lists? Usually all I see are casters and autarchs. Is there some reason that we don't see the PLs?

I'm thinking of using Fuegan and Jan Zair to supplement my fire dragon and banshee contingents. Fuegan acts like an autarch for shooting purposes and JZ gives my banshees "always strikes first". These seem like worthwhile effects in addition to each model's own combat prowess.

Anyway just curious as to other peoples experiences.

I have found Maugan Ra to be quite useful. He has a certain varied utility that just helps. Even better if you are running Reapers as he can babysit them while doing damage on his own.

100% Agreed. He clears chaff well, he can bully small enemy units that get into your back field, he can temporarily tie up units with no rend, he can go after characters with a decent chance of success -- he just adds a really versatile tool to the toolbox. Is he the best at any of these things? No. Does he do them all reasonably well? I think so.

My FLGS is going to have a big sale soon. I was wondering what people consider as indespensible in a Craftworld army?

In other words if you were starting from scratch with a limited budget what would you buy for a good to very good competitive 2000 point army?

Three flyers is generally accepted as the best base for a Craftworld army along with Farseer/Warlock Skyrunners and Rangers.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
My FLGS is going to have a big sale soon. I was wondering what people consider as indespensible in a Craftworld army?

In other words if you were starting from scratch with a limited budget what would you buy for a good to very good competitive 2000 point army?

One problem is that while Eldar have always been competitive, the units that made them so changed with every edition/codex. What’s hot today is trash tomorrow. So if you are getting into eldar, I’d think about what draws you to the army and focus on that. Better to have a “meh” army with units you love, then win for ~2 years with stuff you are not fond of, just to have the meta shift and be stuck with a shelf full of stuff you don’t care about.

That said:
Look to see if you can split any of the bundle boxes (wake the dead, etc). Units might not be the best, but if you can stack a sale on the discount, that’s a win
Farseers and their psychic shenanigans have been a foundation for our army for a while now, and probably won’t stop as it’s core to our identity.
Wave Serpents. They generally make all our other tanks look crappy. What you fill them with shifts all the damn time, but they are a good investment.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I was wondering what people consider as indespensible in a Craftworld army?

Farseer on foot (can go with Eldrad) and on a bike
Some warlocks/seers on foot and on bikes
Spiritseer
Autarch on bike (a foot one as well, but can use DA kit for this)
Troops to construct the core of the list: 2 guardian boxes (maybe somehow magnetise them to turn into assault guards if needed), 10-15 DAs, 15 Rangers
2+ Wave Serpents
2+ Flyer kits, magnetised

Top tier
Farseers/warlocks (with or without bikes)
Autarch (with wings or bike)
Crimson Hunter Exarchs
Hemlocks
Wave Serpents
Eldrad Ulthran

Strong
Crimson Hunters
Windriders
Shining Spears
Spiritseers
Warlock Conclaves
Night Spinner
Fire Prism
Dire Avengers/Guardians/Rangers
Dark Reapers
Yncarne (Ynnari technically, I know)
Maugan Ra

Solid
Support Weapons
War Walkers
Wraithlords
Wraithguard
Fire Dragons
Vypers
Swooping Hawks
Avatar of Khaine

Fun Picks
Everything else

Are Dark Reapers still good? It seems they've been replaced by Night Spinners?

Dark Reapers haven't really fit well with competitive eldar lists in a while. Still good but yes replaced by night spinners and generally by more flyers in competitive games.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
My FLGS is going to have a big sale soon. I was wondering what people consider as indespensible in a Craftworld army?

In other words if you were starting from scratch with a limited budget what would you buy for a good to very good competitive 2000 point army?

As others have said, hqs are solid. Doomseer is a must (bike or eldrad). Avatar sucks.

Troops, guardians have good offensive power (when in range), but will get melted in return. Rangers less output but more survivable. Fire Avengers, sorta in the middle.
Wave serpents are amazing. Always have been.

Elites sorta suck, wraith units being the best of them.
Fast attack, jet bikes in any option are good, including spears. Vypers ,warp spiders, hawks wouldn't really be seen in a comparative list.
Heavies, spinners and fire prisms are good. Warwalkers and batteries a bit less good.

Flyer spam is what all the top lists do, personally looks boring to play, but it's what is best, saying that they should be hit by the nerf hammer next FAQ)CA. How hard nobody knows yet, they managed to be skipped in the last one.


Edit: so I watched a battle rep, where a marine lib had 5 powers (Inc smite) wtf... How do we not have strats that give us extra powers, it's my biggest issue atm...

We do have a strat that lets a farseer cast an additional power.

Friggin plastic banshees...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/29/breaking-news-sisters-psykers-and-skeletonsgw-homepage-post-4/

Yep. I made a whole thread to celebrate this fact and so that we can spread wild rumours muahaha

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/779688.page

Any standouts at NOVA? Or still same old boring flyer spam?

karandrasss wrote:
Any standouts at NOVA? Or still same old boring flyer spam?

Nothing concrete other than every faction will get some rules from the campaign books, and some new models for some factions (plastic banshees confirmed for CWE )

Unlikley any fixes possible without a new codex or at leats a big FAQ. Imo what could be achieve through the next CA is to drop some points for aspects, vypers, infantry etc. and just straight up making it so the -1 from alitoic does not stack with fliers. People would still take them, but I dont think they would be a must take they are now.

OK, thought exercise for you!

If you were forced by restrictions for an unusual tournament to use a Falcon (Serpents and Flyers not allowed), how would you equip it (assuming your army already has a good anti-infantry versus anti-tank balance)?

Cheap and simple at 125 points with Starcannon, Pulse Laser, Shuriken Catapults is what I am thinking, perhaps 130 with the addition of a Crystal Targeting Matrix.

Your thoughts? Ideas?

V

 Verthane wrote:
OK, thought exercise for you!

If you were forced by restrictions for an unusual tournament to use a Falcon (Serpents and Flyers not allowed), how would you equip it (assuming your army already has a good anti-infantry versus anti-tank balance)?

Cheap and simple at 125 points with Starcannon, Pulse Laser, Shuriken Catapults is what I am thinking, perhaps 130 with the addition of a Crystal Targeting Matrix.

Your thoughts? Ideas?

V

From personal experience with similar restrictions I place on myself when I play against my sons' Marine lists, I prefer Double Shuricannons. Also comes in at 130pts and gives them some Dakka to lay down as they close to drop off cargo.
I find it works great when a Serpent isn't the appropriate choice (whether because of tourney restrictions or you want to tone down your list to have a better game against a weaker opponent)

-

My double shuri cannon serpent weighs in at 167 pts. That includes a 3rd shuri cannon as well as both engine mods. I just figure that if you're going to have assault weapons you may as well take full advantage of them.

 Verthane wrote:
OK, thought exercise for you!

If you were forced by restrictions for an unusual tournament to use a Falcon (Serpents and Flyers not allowed), how would you equip it (assuming your army already has a good anti-infantry versus anti-tank balance)?

Cheap and simple at 125 points with Starcannon, Pulse Laser, Shuriken Catapults is what I am thinking, perhaps 130 with the addition of a Crystal Targeting Matrix.

Your thoughts? Ideas?

V

I tend to fly my Falcons with brightlances. But then, I always seems to need a little more AV in my lists. YMMV

I like falcons with twin catapult, star cannon and CTM for 130pts. Stick 6 avengers with twin catapults on the exarch in each one for 188 PTS total. That can clear a squad of intercessors from an objective, hold it and then the falcon can move off or just use it's big guns from range. Three like this makes the basis of a nice mechanised infantry list.
I do think it would be good to move falcons into the transport section too. I do love falcons and run them often with decent success but then I mostly play pick up games at my local store so that makes it easier to get them to work.

I ran a Falcon in one game and it blew up turn one so I can't say much, but depending on the craftworld, starcannon, twin cats and CTM seems good.

Shuriken cannons for Biel-Tan but that's if you run it that way.

I wish they were better...

A mate is doing an order from forge World, I'm thinking of getting some(2-3)warp hunters, are they any good? The flamer version is deadly and would support my aggressive play style., Other firing mode doesn't need LOS, i'd run them plus prisms as well. Down side being they cost closer to 180 an expensive option.

Reminds me I got my 2 hornets to build...

Cpt. Icanus wrote:
We do have a strat that lets a farseer cast an additional power.

This would be the 2 we know plus smite though, right? While I'd want to know an extra power and happy to only be able to cast 2 of them.

Ah, then i misunderstood. True, a Farseer only knows two powers and i don't know a way to increase that. You could ofc pick Ulthwe and Eldrad, that's know three, cast three. Then again i often feel compelled to split Farseers by purpose. One offensive with doom and executioner and one defensive with fortune and guide.

I've got something of an odd question - how practical is a melee Farseer?

(If it matters, I was thinking along the lines of a Ynnari one, ideally with Corag Hai's Locket.)

Not worth the points i'm afraid. It might make adent in a jinxed Knight, but it'll die to any serious return. Go for a Warlock Conclave on bikes if you want a no AP melee deathstar, they can buff themselves at least. Not saying it's any good.

Galef, Nevelon, kingheff, Tyranid Horde, thanks much for your thoughts on the Falcons!

I do also like the Brightlance build, that's how I ran it in 5th edition; it kept it focused as an anti-tank vehicle.

For those who run Night Spinners, how many do people run? I'm usually running triple fire prisms but I could make space for a few spinners.

Cpt. Icanus wrote:
Not worth the points i'm afraid. It might make adent in a jinxed Knight, but it'll die to any serious return. Go for a Warlock Conclave on bikes if you want a no AP melee deathstar, they can buff themselves at least. Not saying it's any good.

Hmm, that's a shame. Thanks anyway.