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What's the verdict on the new Banshee Exarch Powers, considering the Banshees are arguably the poster child of this Phoenix Rising release?

To sum up:

1. 5+++ for unit in Fight phase
2. Executioner armed only, Exarch can choose to have -1A in return for +3S and D3
3. -2 A to an enemy model down to minimum of 1
4. Exarch gets +1A. If armed with Mirrorswords, bonus is +2A instead
5. Exarch melee to-hit rolls of 6 generate 1 mortal wound in addition to normal hit
6. On charge, Exarch inflicts d3 mortal wounds on a 4+

I am somewhat torn on this.

A basic -1 is pretty good, but to be frank, a unit of 5 would still die easily to somewhat competent units. However, it vastly increases your survivability against units with WS4 and even more against WS5.

A 5+++ for 10 girls and -1 to hit and LFR is a lot more tarpitty if you can manage to get it into blob of enemy units. But counters to easy by fallback > shoot routine unless you're taking hostage. (Custom craftworld which allows to consolidate 3" ; into any direction perhaps?)
Personally I am afraid to run big squad of Banshees. Fragile, expensive, dies if WS explodes.

Damage 3 Executioner is excellent if you often charge stuff like Onagers or other vehicles that can't fall back. You can not only tie them up but wound them.

-2 to A is obviously good at saving your characters, but is really situational - exarch has to be within 1". Against mobile characters just not possible unless you fight first with Jain. But you better use Banshees and Jain independently from each other on multiple directions to tie up as many shooters as possible. But hey, Knight hitting just 6 attacks on 4+? Not bad.

Mirrorswords is a filler, so is unmodifided mortals on hit.

Finally, d3 mortals on charge is hilarious since even 1 Exarch left of a squad can suddenly lolrush some expensive unit in invul and do damage way above usual Banshee pay. It is the one I like for MSU of 2-3 five girl units the most.

I agree, MWs is gravy, and probably worth a cp reroll in a lot of matchups. But Banshees have remained essentially the same: hyper glassy, weak punch, but no overwatch and hella fast.

If you need that in your list then great. Otherwise, well, those new models will be gathering dust.

I'm personally interested in Scorpions - reliable charge out of DS and far more reliable MWs make them a really interesting choice to just drop in for the last 64pts of your list. Cheap, cheerful, need no extra investment, and can *conceivably* swing a game your way by nailing a backfield camper. The definition of a turn 3 unit.

I hope decapatating strile was a typo and was supposed to effect the whole squad. Mw on unmod 6 on 2 attack t3 model sqaud is not OP in any way shape or form compared to sm gak.

 Argive wrote:
I hope decapatating strile was a typo and was supposed to effect the whole squad. Mw on unmod 6 on 2 attack t3 model sqaud is not OP in any way shape or form compared to sm gak.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPf69sxaLlw Time 20:30

That is when the power is discussed and you can actually read from the page directly. It's a bit too long and explicit to be a typo. Only the Exarch is doing any decapitating.


As for the Graceful Avoidance power, I'm just a little bit puzzled why they went for a 5+++ Fight phase only considering that on the same page, Hawks get 5++ for the whole unit. In both cases it supposedly represents evasion, so why differ in giving one a ++ and another a +++?

Because heaven forbid xenos get anything good(i mean betterthan SM) with new models.

I suppose a 5+++ means they can get a 5++ with Asurmen's power in addition to their -1 to hit. Still, the inconsistency just bugs me.

So what does it say that sugest warp spiders get t1 ds?
Afaik unless it specificaly states it ignores the tactical.restraint rule all it is is a reposition within 9 (or 12 if marines because marines are awesome) rather than 4 d6 move.

 Argive wrote:
So what does it say that sugest warp spiders get t1 ds?
Afaik unless it specificaly states it ignores the tactical.restraint rule all it is is a reposition within 9 (or 12 if marines because marines are awesome) rather than 4 d6 move.

It seems to be identical to their Warp Strike ability now, except there is no risk of losing a model.

 Argive wrote:
So what does it say that sugest warp spiders get t1 ds?
Afaik unless it specificaly states it ignores the tactical.restraint rule all it is is a reposition within 9 (or 12 if marines because marines are awesome) rather than 4 d6 move.

Well whim of deceit (from the source i saw) seems like a reposition that works only once just like Da Jump, so only takes effect if unit is already on battlefield should be exemp from tactical restrain rule.

 Argive wrote:
Because heaven forbid xenos get anything good(i mean betterthan SM) with new models.

can you get 5++ in any other source? Since 5++ and 5+++ combo rather nicely.

tneva82 wrote:

 Argive wrote:
Because heaven forbid xenos get anything good(i mean betterthan SM) with new models.

can you get 5++ in any other source? Since 5++ and 5+++ combo rather nicely.

Asurmen's aura gives 5++. However, that is even more points investment. Also it would be nice if a unit could be useful without having to use a named character.

Iracundus wrote:

 Argive wrote:
So what does it say that sugest warp spiders get t1 ds?
Afaik unless it specificaly states it ignores the tactical.restraint rule all it is is a reposition within 9 (or 12 if marines because marines are awesome) rather than 4 d6 move.

It seems to be identical to their Warp Strike ability now, except there is no risk of losing a model.

I think its weaker becuse you have to land ouside of 9" of enemies so cant steal objectives reliabily and force shots at -2 base targets(if altoic) But i suppose it has some uses f you realy need distance. If you running 10 man blob the morale dice would probably be better.


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tneva82 wrote:

 Argive wrote:
Because heaven forbid xenos get anything good(i mean betterthan SM) with new models.

can you get 5++ in any other source? Since 5++ and 5+++ combo rather nicely.

What exactly are you implying?? That these traits and powers for banshees are strong cmpairing to sm? Lol...

The banshees are still suffering from same problem of not nough damage or survivability. Sightly more relible charge with the trait and psychic. But are you realy going to build your whole army trait/expensive named characters around squad of banshees ?or cqc units in general...Really? Seems lile investing all that resource into making a poor unit perform is pretty gak when extra buffs are handed out like candy to power armour or free.

I suppose if one took the Craftworld attributes of Savage Blades (re-roll to-hit on charge or if charge) and Children of Morai-Heg (+1 to-hit if half of unit destroyed), then you could get effectively hitting on 2+ with re-roll 1's but that's only after you lose half the unit.

Again though that requires an inordinate amount of effort, basically dedicating the custom Craftworld attributes to this. If one has to put in extra effort to get equivalent performance, that is the same as saying the thing was underpowered in the first place.

No need to be all doom and gloom folks, Alaitoc is still apparently untouched and therefore the strength of the CW codex has not diminished at all.

Honestly if you were expecting to be able to buy some flash new plastic Banshees to bring to your next hyper competitive GT and dominate the top tables, you're expecting too much - this is GW after all.

I for one am super excited to take my Aspect warriors into battle again and explore all the new utility and options they have, even if not IH tier. If that doesn't cut the mustard for you, then just keep bringing all the units that make CW one of the strongest armies currently, nothing actually got worse...

 Argive wrote:

What exactly are you implying?? That these traits and powers for banshees are strong cmpairing to sm? Lol...

The banshees are still suffering from same problem of not nough damage or survivability. Sightly more relible charge with the trait and psychic. But are you realy going to build your whole army trait/expensive named characters around squad of banshees ?or cqc units in general...Really? Seems lile investing all that resource into making a poor unit perform is pretty gak when extra buffs are handed out like candy to power armour or free.

That 5+++ for one unit can be better than the 5++ for other. 5+++ is additional save. 5++ is replacement save. Would you have banshees 5++ instead of 5+++? If so then lol

My issue with the 5+++ as I said is that it seems to break from the established consistency of what are essentially "dodge" saves. The other Exarch powers like Hawk Evade and Shining Spear Skillful Rider or Crimson Hunter Evade give invulnerable saves, and Harlequins, Wyches, and Succubi invulnerable saves represent similarly their ability to dodge shots and blows.

tneva82 wrote:
can you get 5++ in any other source?

Craftworld for 6++ and Protect.

I'm seeing some interesting potential in this release.

As far as super competitive lists go, Crimson Hunter Exarchs can now hit on 2's, so that's an upgrade. You could maybe swap Alaitoc for always in cover, and reroll one hit and wound per unit too.


For less competitive, aspect warrior heavy, lists there are at least a lot of interesting options. I'm mostly leaning towards MSU lists to take the most advantage of souped up Exarchs and the Salamanders trait (reroll one hit and wound per unit).

A unit of 3 Dark Reapers is 102 points and, with the rapid shot power, gets 4 S8 shots with rerolls. 3 units of these plus an autarch is a nice Spearhead detachment that puts out 13 incredibly accurate missiles (they're all hitting on 3's, rerolling ones, with 4 separate chances to reroll a 2) that get to reroll some wound rolls. Ignore cover would be a decent second trait for the detachment, and the whole thing can fit in a Wave Serpent.

3x Shining Spears with a Star Lance is only 104pts and, with the Blade Master ability, that Exarch has 3 attacks at S8 AP-4 flat 3 damage, rerolling a hit and wound roll. Seems pretty lethal. There's a few good options for a second trait here.

I also quite like the look of 5 man Avenger units with the Exarch taking 2 catapults at AP-3. Still taking the Salamander trait, and maybe adding 4" range or ignoring cover.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:


3x Shining Spears with a Star Lance is only 104pts and, with the Blade Master ability, that Exarch has 3 attacks at S8 AP-4 flat 3 damage, rerolling a hit and wound roll. Seems pretty lethal. There's a few good options for a second trait here.

Blademaster power only works with Paragon saber. So that's S3 AP-4 D3

Has there been any confirmation on whether the avenger squads have AP -3 on the whole unit or just the Exarch?

I'm looking into seeing what MSU squads can do, especially with Dark Reapers, but that strategy gives away points in ITC so maybe it isn't worth the rerolls for the tempest launcher.

I've not said much on the book but the whole thing feels pretty underwhelming and hasn't shaken anything up.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Has there been any confirmation on whether the avenger squads have AP -3 on the whole unit or just the Exarch?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPf69sxaLlw

The guy literally goes through all the powers and attributes and reads them out as is, and often the rules themselves are legible in the video for additional confirmation. Shredding Fire gives only the Exarch AP -3 on his shuriken weapons.

Mighty disappointing but not surprised, Tabletop Tactics had me hoping!

Iracundus wrote:


Blademaster power only works with Paragon saber. So that's S3 AP-4 D3

How pointless! Curse whatever inaccurate summary I read.

In order to keep the original Exarch power and get a new one is to pay 1 CP. Are we able to pay the 1 CP multiple times? IE: multiple CHEs having two Exarch powers.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Mighty disappointing but not surprised, Tabletop Tactics had me hoping!

Not sure if serious. You're disappointed your infantry doesn't shoot at -3 for 11 ppm?
The ability is really good in MSU, your 1/3 shots are -3 always, with re-rolls it's great.

 Sarigar wrote:
In order to keep the original Exarch power and get a new one is to pay 1 CP. Are we able to pay the 1 CP multiple times? IE: multiple CHEs having two Exarch powers.

No, because stratagems are 1 use only.

It's a pity they couldn't have left the Exarch a blank slate with no default power and let people choose a power freely.

Uh, you can choose them freely? The new one replaces the old one.

 Shadenuat wrote:

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Mighty disappointing but not surprised, Tabletop Tactics had me hoping!

Not sure if serious. You're disappointed your infantry doesn't shoot at -3 for 11 ppm?
The ability is really good in MSU, your 1/3 shots are -3 always, with re-rolls it's great.

Yeah I am serious, it would have made people complain about something other than Crimson Hunter Exarchs!

1/3 @AP -3 is still acceptable considering I already fill my battalions with MSU avenger squads.

Does this open the way for people taking Biel-Tan over Alaitoc?

 Shadenuat wrote:
Uh, you can choose them freely? The new one replaces the old one.

You end up at most with an exemplar that has the default + 1 other power from the table. So Banshee Exarch at most has War Shout + 1 other. You cannot have 2 choices from the table together.

If there were no default, or the default was just one more choice on that table, then you could have more possible combinations of powers.