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Yeah I've been looking at 2 options, more fluffy footdar with a lot of shuriken using the -1 within 12 and ignore cover to max out close quarters dmg and a lot of bodies

Or

Lots of vehicles and MSU hard hitting units with the salamanders trait and either cover or healing, shame that we cant have healing WL, love their models


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Second option might make BL vypers decent (still less comp tho)

Sallies and cover over 12" are the two traits I've switched to in my local ITC league.

Yeah im in a similiar boat. Alitoic is still mega good though. Not as effective vs reroll all of the dice, but still good especialy with certain units.

The salamander trait feels fun for me and feels like a breath of fresh air. It lends itself to msu single unit builds rather than relying on blobs for guide. So as long as the thing is cheap and you can stick a BL on it why not? Also it frees up some psychic as guide is no longer such a clutch power as youre no longer relying on big blobs. Hopefuly this will mean your opponents will need to over invest fire power into killing stuff as wounds wont carry over to the rest of the unit/squadron.

I really like the idea of cover saves for everyone but wound healing is tempting also as I realy like bonesingers so some synergy there for me. I havent got the codex in front of me so cant remember exact save values for everything, But 2+ wraiths do sound as tough as i always imagine them to be.

Without looking at all the powers for exarchs though its hard to think of footdar aspect lists outside of shuriken extra range plus/charge increase.

For me cover wins hands down. For example my CHEs hit on 2s, rerolling one hit and wound, with a 2+/5++ save, still -1 to hit. (1cp for 2 traits) I think that's about as good as it's going to get for them for the foreseeable future, and I think I actually prefer it to Alaitoc.

 grouchoben wrote:
For me cover wins hands down. For example my CHEs hit on 2s, rerolling one hit and wound, with a 2+/5++ save, still -1 to hit. (1cp for 2 traits) I think that's about as good as it's going to get for them for the foreseeable future, and I think I actually prefer it to Alaitoc.

Where is the 2+ 5++ coming from?

I wouldint expect flier battlefield role to het cover saves. I think that was faq'd a while back.

 grouchoben wrote:
For me cover wins hands down. For example my CHEs hit on 2s, rerolling one hit and wound, with a 2+/5++ save, still -1 to hit. (1cp for 2 traits) I think that's about as good as it's going to get for them for the foreseeable future, and I think I actually prefer it to Alaitoc.

I agree. That combo works well for MSU, Wraithlords, tanks and even Cannon Wraithknight.

I'm thinking a long range gunline with cover and the psychic trait could be very nice, everything gets a defensive buff and your buffing psykers are more efficient.

The 5++ is an Exarch power, the 2++ is from constant cover save

You think flyers can't receive cover - why? Prepared Positions was changed so that it doesn't give flyers cover, I know that much, but I could well have missed an FAQ thing.

I'm pretty sure flyers can benefit from cover, and that trait makes a lot of sense if you're taking a lot of vehicles or bikes.

The ignore cover trait feel almost essential vs space marines (depending how much terrain there is). If my list contains any AP '-' shooting for dealing with hordes, those guns become useless against Primaris in cover.

 grouchoben wrote:
The 5++ is an Exarch power, the 2++ is from constant cover save

That's fine but you can't also get 2+ BS on top.

Ahh, I see. Just reread the strat, and it allows you to take the original exarch power in addition to one more, not to take two of your choice. My bad, thanks.

Funny enough it means that it is probably only truly good on Banshees.

Has there been any info if any of the existing CWE attributes are getting an update? I could see Alaitoc swapping to the Masters of Concealment trait, plus non-vehicles/non-titanic units being -1 to hit if actually in terrain (a la the same thing that happened to Raven guard)

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The original craftworld traits are unchanged as of Phoenix Rising/Psychic Awakening.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
The original craftworld traits are unchanged as of Phoenix Rising/Psychic Awakening.

That's kinda surprising.

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 Galef wrote:
[That's kinda surprising.

Pointing at Alaitoc? Honestly I think hard to hit rules are diminishing slowly without further adjustments because some of the latest releases bringt reroll all hit (not just misses), granting 2+ ballistics (imagine on damaged vehicles), +modifiers for hit and the like. If anything I would like to see a global change to limit all modifiers to never go above/under +1/-1 after applieing all stacked buffs and being counted against each other. That way modifiers still are valuable but stacking doesn't create silly combinations (negative to avoid shooting attacks entirely, positive to get explosive attacks too easily for example). Right now though I don't have the feeling that GW really cares.

So wait.... can we get Shining Spears to a 2++ against shooting now??

Skilled Rider: This unit gets a 3+ invuln against ranged weapons. + Protect?

If so - WOW!

 Galef wrote:

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
The original craftworld traits are unchanged as of Phoenix Rising/Psychic Awakening.

That's kinda surprising.

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Not really. Gw has shown it won't change similar things just like that. Remember how everybody thought ca18 would unify plasma ala orks? Rerolls are divided as well cawl or non cawl.

That's Bespoke rules for you

Data04_exe wrote:
So wait.... can we get Shining Spears to a 2++ against shooting now??

Skilled Rider: This unit gets a 3+ invuln against ranged weapons. + Protect?

If so - WOW!

Skilled Rider only affects the Exarch. While he can tank quite a bit the unit will go down quickly once the Exarch has fallen. Might still be worth a try, but that way it's really not broken.

The Exarch isn't quite the same as a Custodes with shield to tank saves forever but it increases the viability of the unit decently. I'm taking a unit of 5 in my next game to give them a go. I think those coupled with an Autarch Skyrunner and a Jetlock they could be pretty strong.

 Bego wrote:

Data04_exe wrote:
So wait.... can we get Shining Spears to a 2++ against shooting now??

Skilled Rider: This unit gets a 3+ invuln against ranged weapons. + Protect?

If so - WOW!

Skilled Rider only affects the Exarch. While he can tank quite a bit the unit will go down quickly once the Exarch has fallen. Might still be worth a try, but that way it's really not broken.

Ah okay got it. I was just confused by the word "unit" instead of "model". But i think you are right.

There are some 'leaks' around that shortened the rules on writing it down. In detail it reads like this:

This unit's Shining Spear Exarch has a 3+ invulnerable save against attacks made with ranged weapons.

Does anyone ever run support weapons. D cannon Vibro cannons. Etc.

Yesir Ive been very happy with vibro cannons/Spinner cannons. I rate them highly.

37 points for vibro is bargain especialy if you field more than 3. Could potentially stop 2-3 units from advancing which can be a huge deal. I dealt with some pox walkers this way last time I played which really won me the game.

The spinner variant is also solid I think. LOS ignoring dakka is always nice and useful.

D canons seem a bit too expensive but with the new trait I might test them out.

MSU Aspect Warrior Spam Brigade.

Salamander reroll trait, and ignores cover trait.



I think this will be a lot of fun, and possibly even effective.

Seems like a really cool list although there are portions of it which I would drop immediately like the fire dragons and warp spiders as they won't do enough in my opinion.

I like all of the mortal wound spam but I feel effects like that can be quite swingy.

Brigade caps at 5 FA choices.

warpedpig wrote:
Does anyone ever run support weapons. D cannon Vibro cannons. Etc.

Yes. They're cheap and pretty tough. Vibro cannon (the plural form of cannon is cannon!) are probably the most useful, but you need to take more than three for them to be truly effective.

Spinners are okay. They're relatively punchless, but they're cheap, have decent range, and don't need LOS, so they're perfect for filling out your backfield. However, if you're planning on them actually killing anything and not just rounding out your army you'll need to take a lot of them, which takes away spots from the Vibro cannon.

D-cannon are tricky. I use them the most often, purely for thematic reasons, and while they're shorter ranged and more expensive than the other weapons, they're not too expensive. 70-ish points is still pretty cheap for a no-LOS demolisher cannon. The real problem with them is that they can only really engage targets that come to them, and some enemies don't want to move closer.

Wait, so if you successfully cast protect every turn does that mean spear exarchs against ranged are basically shadowfields with 3 wounds?

Better than Shadowfields (against ranged), you can reroll the result with a CP. Super tanky.