Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Spartacus wrote:
Better than Shadowfields (against ranged), you can reroll the result with a CP. Super tanky.

Zooming a 2++ Shining Spear Exarch up to something like a knight, then casting the new "must shoot closest enemy" psychic power on it sounds like a nice trick.

Hemlock is 210pts, you pay for the stones.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

Spartacus wrote:
Better than Shadowfields (against ranged), you can reroll the result with a CP. Super tanky.

Zooming a 2++ Shining Spear Exarch up to something like a knight, then casting the new "must shoot closest enemy" psychic power on it sounds like a nice trick.

I was thinking more the large Guardian blob in the middle of the table, with a 4++, protect (for a 3++), LQR, etc. Might lose wounds twice as fast as the Shining Spear exarch with the same powers/stratagems, but you're paying 6ppm or 8ppm per W, and can have 20 of them. Also, they've already put 40 ShuriKat rounds into something.

Wow. Is this the first unit to have access to 2++/-3 to hit? Feels like some kind of record. Must be one of the least appealing things to shoot in the whole game.

 slave.entity wrote:
Wow. Is this the first unit to have access to 2++/-3 to hit? Feels like some kind of record. Must be one of the least appealing things to shoot in the whole game.

Is it really that scary?

100-ish points and a Power to get to 3W at T4 2++ and 4W at T4 3++. For the same points, you could have 25 T3 5+. That doesn't look too wrong to me.

Is this notably better than StormShield Marines? Or 4++ Guardians?

A 2++ is stupidly good. But on only a 3W T4 model, it'll have some limits.

Except shining spears are pretty nasty in their own right. They do dmg when they charge and can still fall back and shoot to do more dmg.

Still doesn't work on CC attacks though, and Spears have to get stupid close to be effective. If your opponent shoots at them when their defences all go off, they want their head looking at. I think I prefer +1 on the charge trait, just to make them a good DS unit. Right now I don't have much use for them, try as I might.

Asurman and eldrad can also get a 2++ with protect for what it's worth.

So ahhh... reading Phoenix Rising Im a little confusticated by one of the new psychic powers "Focus Will". It states (slightly paraphrased):

Warp charge 6. select
one friendly <CRAFTWORLD>
PSYKER model within 6" of this
psyker. Until the end of this
phase, when a Deny the Witch
test is taken for that model, add
2 to the total.

The end of this phase? Meaning the current psychic phase when none of your psykers would ever possibly need to try and deny the witch?

What do you think went wrong here - should it just be 'psychic test' instead which would make the rest of the wording correct? Seems unlikely they would just totally cock up the normal 'Until the start of your next psychic phase' wording like other powers have. The power description just states: 'The psyker channels their mind to aid a fellow seer.'

If that is the case and they errata it properly, could be a nice handy little Warlock power take to supercharge Eldrad or something, +4 total to his psychic tests after taking 'Seer Council' and his magic staff into account.

Just occurred to me that the "always in cover" trait also works really well with protect and shining spears. Most things will be shooting at a 1+ save meaning the spears won't even need to use their invuln until AP3 or greater.

£0.50 says the always cover gets FAQ not to include units with fly...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spartacus wrote:
So ahhh... reading Phoenix Rising Im a little confusticated by one of the new psychic powers "Focus Will". It states (slightly paraphrased):

Warp charge 6. select
one friendly <CRAFTWORLD>
PSYKER model within 6" of this
psyker. Until the end of this
phase, when a Deny the Witch
test is taken for that model, add
2 to the total.

The end of this phase? Meaning the current psychic phase when none of your psykers would ever possibly need to try and deny the witch?

What do you think went wrong here - should it just be 'psychic test' instead which would make the rest of the wording correct? Seems unlikely they would just totally cock up the normal 'Until the start of your next psychic phase' wording like other powers have. The power description just states: 'The psyker channels their mind to aid a fellow seer.'

If that is the case and they errata it properly, could be a nice handy little Warlock power take to supercharge Eldrad or something, +4 total to his psychic tests after taking 'Seer Council' and his magic staff into account.

Well...you are paraphrasing. Anyone have a snapshot ?

Spartacus wrote:
So ahhh... reading Phoenix Rising Im a little confusticated by one of the new psychic powers "Focus Will". It states (slightly paraphrased):

Warp charge 6. select
one friendly <CRAFTWORLD>
PSYKER model within 6" of this
psyker. Until the end of this
phase, when a Deny the Witch
test is taken for that model, add
2 to the total.

The end of this phase? Meaning the current psychic phase when none of your psykers would ever possibly need to try and deny the witch?

What do you think went wrong here - should it just be 'psychic test' instead which would make the rest of the wording correct? Seems unlikely they would just totally cock up the normal 'Until the start of your next psychic phase' wording like other powers have. The power description just states: 'The psyker channels their mind to aid a fellow seer.'

If that is the case and they errata it properly, could be a nice handy little Warlock power take to supercharge Eldrad or something, +4 total to his psychic tests after taking 'Seer Council' and his magic staff into account.

Yeah, the wording is totally borked on this one, I am sure it will be FAQ'd to read until your next psychic phase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I can see flyers being excluded from the cover bonus trait but not just a blanket ban on everything with fly. That would be very limiting since nearly all our vehicles, bikes and even some infantry have the fly keyword.

Why? It works on Ravenguard flyers well enough doesn't it?

If it works on other vehicles with fly I highly doubt they'll change it for Craftworlds.

That psychic power makes no sense as is so I hope they fix it with the FAQ.

 Argive wrote:
£0.50 says the always cover gets FAQ not to include units with fly...


That would negate the ability to all Jetbike riders, Vypers, Swooping Hawks, Autarch with Wings, all tanks, all fliers. I have no idea what GW will do, but that would be the secondary effect for trying to restrict fliers from gaining a cover save.

 Sarigar wrote:

 Argive wrote:
£0.50 says the always cover gets FAQ not to include units with fly...


That would negate the ability to all Jetbike riders, Vypers, Swooping Hawks, Autarch with Wings, all tanks, all fliers. I have no idea what GW will do, but that would be the secondary effect for trying to restrict fliers from gaining a cover save.

I should have corrected myself to say Units with a flier battlefield role. I'm pretty sure this was FAQ'd for prepared positions

Sent onto GW FAQ mail question about if Disarm is cumulative, what does Witchblade power do to Conclave and that Deny power doesn't work.

Also I found new Exarch powers not being allowed to Ynnari quite amusing.

Ynnari is the puppy that GW just loves to kick now, isn't it?

Weird.

Ynnari is the unwanted halfwit problem child they took into the family on a whim, and have regretted it ever seince.Now they cant just get rid of so they are waiting for it to die of natural causes..

My bet is that the avatar of Ennead was so costly to make and the moulds very complicated (thus expensive?) they just force themselves to soldier on and rip off as much money as possible to recover that investment by any means possible..

 Shadenuat wrote:
Sent onto GW FAQ mail question about if Disarm is cumulative, what does Witchblade power do to Conclave and that Deny power doesn't work.

Also I found new Exarch powers not being allowed to Ynnari quite amusing.

three turnips says Witchblade will only count the model who casts it as the Conclave rules say you pick a model to cast, cos cant have not marine factions doing all the damages all the time, although at £20 a pop sales might say otherwise (of course being the arch wannabe hipster I am I done robbed GW by getting the chapterhouse ones)

 Argive wrote:

I should have corrected myself to say Units with a flier battlefield role. I'm pretty sure this was FAQ'd for prepared positions

That would make this ability worse than RG one that works even with flier battlefield role.

Then again...That's space marines so guess not totally impossible

Let us know how you get on with the email Shadenaut.

In terms of actual tactics now as this has somewhat veered off into complaining about rules that has been covered in general discussion, what do people think of taking max squads of Dark Reapers? Overkill or does it even matter as long as they eat the things they shoot?

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Let us know how you get on with the email Shadenaut.

In terms of actual tactics now as this has somewhat veered off into complaining about rules that has been covered in general discussion, what do people think of taking max squads of Dark Reapers? Overkill or does it even matter as long as they eat the things they shoot?

With the new reaper ability where the exarch can shoot twice, I wouldn't be a bad idea to have 3 MSU squads with the exarch having that ability because you'll get 4 shots per squad so for 9 models that's 12 shots versus 10 (or 9 and a tempest launcher)

Robcio wrote:

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Let us know how you get on with the email Shadenaut.

In terms of actual tactics now as this has somewhat veered off into complaining about rules that has been covered in general discussion, what do people think of taking max squads of Dark Reapers? Overkill or does it even matter as long as they eat the things they shoot?

With the new reaper ability where the exarch can shoot twice, I wouldn't be a bad idea to have 3 MSU squads with the exarch having that ability because you'll get 4 shots per squad so for 9 models that's 12 shots versus 10 (or 9 and a tempest launcher)

Yeah this TBH, I don't think a max squad of Dark Reapers is that much better than before with the new powers, but 3 squads of 3 sure as hell is. Toss in a Warlock or cheap Autarch and you have yourself a nice little spearhead detachment for an extra CP too.

But to be fair, a max reaper squad is still as nasty as its ever been, being able to dump 11 missiles onto something, ignoring modifiers, and then fire and fade back into your ruin is strong as hell. And I always like to have a good candidate unit for Forewarned as well, which they are perfect for.

I got the same impression. A max reaper squad is a deathstar, and the double-shoot adds a little firepower (~+10%). But an MSU Reaper squad - or 3 MSU reaper squads - get a lot of firepower (~+30%). So it doesn't really impact the old Reaper Deathstar list much, but adds another feather in the MSU cap.

Which is generally the more fun way to play with/against them anyways.

Fire and Fade is too good with max squad.
But small squads with Tempest is good as well. It may even make sense to give squads with Tempest +6" range.

Yeah this is one of the points I was thinking about. Fire and Fade is excellent with a big squad but having small units means they can be picked off pretty easily without being able to hide them again.

Now that I have the new supplement it has been quite fun to theory craft using the exarch powers. It'll be interesting how useful MSU units will be in the likes of ITC, where you don't want to give away points.

I'm torn between remaining Alaitoc or swapping for the Always in cover outside 12" and the Salamander style rerolls.

It seems like the Always cover has the same tactical requirements (staying outside 12", etc) as Alaitoc and while it doesn't have that same stacking effect and some things ignore cover, it still helps. Then giving the rest of my army reroll 1 hit & 1 wound a la Salamanders should give me more punch, and honestly save me some CPs and I burn through Command Rerolls pretty quickly trying to mitigate bad rolls.

My son plays Salamanders and I know first hand just how useful those reroll can be, even when combined with Captain rerolls (or in this case, Autarchs which I have in my list).
I've seen him go entire turns (not just phases) without needing to use the CRR, while I'm using them in every phase to maximize the hits/wounds something needs to be effective.

The only thing making me hesitant is that I play Hemlocks (auto-hit) and Prism (linked Fire), so the reroll trait wouls only seem to benefit my Spears, Rangers, Crimson Hunter and Autarchs. And with the Autarchs nearby and my Farseer casting Doom, even those units might not need the rerolls

-

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galef wrote:
I'm torn between remaining Alaitoc or swapping for the Always in cover outside 12" and the Salamander style rerolls.

It seems like the Always cover has the same tactical requirements (staying outside 12", etc) as Alaitoc and while it doesn't have that same stacking effect and some things ignore cover, it still helps. Then giving the rest of my army reroll 1 hit & 1 wound a la Salamanders should give me more punch, and honestly save me some CPs and I burn through Command Rerolls pretty quickly trying to mitigate bad rolls.

My son plays Salamanders and I know first hand just how useful those reroll can be, even when combined with Captain rerolls (or in this case, Autarchs which I have in my list).
I've seen him go entire turns (not just phases) without needing to use the CRR, while I'm using them in every phase to maximize the hits/wounds something needs to be effective.

The only thing making me hesitant is that I play Hemlocks (auto-hit) and Prism (linked Fire), so the reroll trait wouls only seem to benefit my Spears, Rangers, Crimson Hunter and Autarchs. And with the Autarchs nearby and my Farseer casting Doom, even those units might not need the rerolls

-

The sallie Hand me down trait seems to lend itself really realy well to the MSU builds. Cheap single unit of Vypers/ walkers etc. Even with prisms if you are down to one prism or its better to split fire it would still have its uses. For me its a toss up behind ignore cover/Always in cover and Salamanders

 Argive wrote:
The sallie Hand me down trait seems to lend itself really realy well to the MSU builds. Cheap single unit of Vypers/ walkers etc. Even with prisms if you are down to one prism or its better to split fire it would still have its uses. For me its a toss up behind ignore cover/Always in cover and Salamanders

But is it worth dropping Alaitoc altogether? Having 3 Flyers and 2 Ranger units makes me think it might be ok since they already have -1 to be hit, but the Prisms might suffer.
Then again, with Linked Fire, you don't need 2 of them in LoS of the target so long as they can see the main Prism, which will likely NOT be in cover

-