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Smite +2 or +3 to cast is real hard tp give up.

 Phoenix8472 wrote:
I’m curious what people think to running Eldrad with Witch Strike. I know he isn’t exactly a close combat beast but hitting on 2s, S5/AP-2/D3+2 damage sounds good to me and with Witch Strike going off on a 4 that gives a good chance to score his +1 to the rest of his powers? Just thinking it’s a shame he has to be Ulthwé and can’t benefit from a custom attribute to improve his number of attacks

The ulthwe isn't that much of a draw back/
I stick him and a warlock in a detachment with guardian blob and rangers as a CP/psychic battery. Guardian blobs can get discipline of the black guardians and a FNP with celestial shield synergises quite well same with the rangers. I find it compensates for lack of alitoic. But its a gamey play if you make the rest of the detachments alitoic/custom...
He is an absolute weapon in his own right. with only 2 attacks I'm not sure id ever bother buffing him.

However I have given him protect and used him as bait.. 2++ and a 5+++ has saved his bacon more than once and hes such a target people have unloaded a lot of dakka at him before and he shrugged it of like a champ! Once 1 units shooting was invested and casued 0-1 they follow up again and again as they feel they need to kill him... Or he dies and does nothing lol. Not tournament wining strategy but a fun gamble!

 grouchoben wrote:
Smite +2 or +3 to cast is real hard tp give up.

How do you get that? You know his +1 to cast next power if you cast successfully doesn’t stack multiple times (it was in one of the FAQs)

 Saber wrote:

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
In regards to the support weapons, they sound pretty great right now but is there space for 9 of them in a standard list? Do they outperform the units in the Heavy slot that they compete with?

Maybe?

Vibro cannon are cheap, but you need at least 4 (and probably more like 6) to be worth it. So they're going to end up costing as much or more as any other heavy choice. 6 of them is a lot of firepower, though, and is pretty tough so long as you can keep the enemy at arm's length.

D-cannon are bit more difficult to use, but you can do just fine with 1 and probably don't want more than 3, as they have a tendency to play forward and risk getting overrun in assault.

Spinners are cheap, you don't need many, and they don't do much. They're good filler that can harass the enemy's filler, but they're not going to contribute much beyond that.

Spinners sound really good with no cover/expert crafters. Having 3-4 of them will force opponent out of objectives and the 2 DMG is really good for clearing marines.
The reroll of EX + Autarch can make them really annoying for the opponent and will force him to come to you. You can get rid of this pesky eliminators, who are shooting your character from LOS and no +2 save for them in cover.
The d6 is still much better than d3 for clearing T3 chaffs and not needing LOS like vibro is huge. I really like D-Cannon, but it`s overpriced alot and 24 inch range is a problem.

Worth to notice Heavy weapons (former Vaul's Wrath) only can field Shadow weavers wich are S 6 dmg 1, while Spinners are the main weapon of the tank with higher S and Dmg.

 Lord Perversor wrote:
Worth to notice Heavy weapons (former Vaul's Wrath) only can field Shadow weavers wich are S 6 dmg 1, while Spinners are the main weapon of the tank with higher S and Dmg.

Damn you are right, somehow i always through they are D2.

With the new phoenix rising exarch upgrades you can get a 2++ (add protect) shining spear exarch. with 'fateful divergence' psychic power you can reroll 1 save and use a normal reroll (stratagem) for another 1 reroll save. Hell, give it fortune and/or evade and it would be a pain to remove. Combine this with almost nothing but characters; farseers skyrunners, warlock skyrunners, shadowseers and start trowing out mortal wounds and make sure the enemy can only shoot the shining spears. Maybe use some dark reapers with a dark reaper exarch that could drop in with deep strike and shoot at the anti-character snipers and also take out characters itself (dark reaper exarch within 18 exarch upgrade..)

Could this work?

shogun wrote:

With the new phoenix rising exarch upgrades you can get a 2++ (add protect) shining spear exarch. with 'fateful divergence' psychic power you can reroll 1 save and use a normal reroll (stratagem) for another 1 reroll save. Hell, give it fortune and/or evade and it would be a pain to remove. Combine this with almost nothing but characters; farseers skyrunners, warlock skyrunners, shadowseers and start trowing out mortal wounds and make sure the enemy can only shoot the shining spears. Maybe use some dark reapers with a dark reaper exarch that could drop in with deep strike and shoot at the anti-character snipers and also take out characters itself (dark reaper exarch within 18 exarch upgrade..)

Could this work?

I've been looking at the same in regards to Shining Spears tanking shots. 2++ with two rerolls is awfully tempting. Opponents generally will not and cannot ignore Shining Spears on the table.

I've been looking at Ynnarri and Harlequins for additional Mortal wound abilities. Ynnarri characters can go in non Ynarri Detachments (with some caveats). I'm not sure I want to use Warlocks for Mortal Wounds. My current list has 5 Mortal Wound powers that can be cast per turn; Smite x 3, Executioner, Gaze of Ynnead. Highest WC is a 7 which seems fairly easy with multiple methods to get bonuses. Yvraine, psychic power, Relic, stratagem.

I won't get to play until for nearly two weeks unfortunately, but I habe been going through the new book trying to find the right combination as not a whole lot stands out as obviously powerful.

2++ Spears are really good, and you could maybe use the "must shoot closest enemy" power to abuse it. It's not something you can build an army around though because the 2++ doesn't work in close combat or against Mortal wounds. You would just get crushed in certain match ups.

I ran a unit of 5 shining spears at the weekend in an ITC tournament. Protected shining spears are absolutely incredible against shooting. The 2++ exarch tanked an incredible amount of shots over the course of 5 games.

I didn't have any rerolls on the 2++ but it requires a huge amount of firepower just to shift that one unit.

The only issue I have with them is that they're extremely dependent on buffs for them to be effective and if you don't get protect off or you face a lot of mortal wound spam they're very dead.

I'll post my list later on for a bit of discussion. Spoiler, I came 11th out of 72 players and finished as the top Asuryani player.

Any suggestion about the best CHE powers duo?
Defensive Marksman's Eye + Evade or offensive Marksman's Eye + Hawkeye?

The strat lets you add one new power to your already existing one, not choose two (I made this mistake in my excitement too).

 Echeloon wrote:
Any suggestion about the best CHE powers duo?
Defensive Marksman's Eye + Evade or offensive Marksman's Eye + Hawkeye?

Considering the right CW trait could give you a defense buff, I'd go with Marksman's Eye (i.e the one it starts with) and Hawkeyes.
So my vote is for Marksman's Hawkeye

-

 grouchoben wrote:
The strat lets you add one new power to your already existing one, not choose two (I made this mistake in my excitement too).

Yes Marksman's Eye is the default one

1CP for both Marksman's Eye and Hawkeye was incredibly efficient in the tournament I was in. Almost every shot hit and anything with fly just evaporated against the CHE.

Banshees are.. bordering on okay now? The Exarch with piercing strike & Salamanders re-rolls gives them some decent damage impact, even against vehicles, and they still have their niche overwatch ignoring/tie up role. It's maybe the best they've been since 4th.

They still need 3A base or a points drop though. FAQ it GW!

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
1CP for both Marksman's Eye and Hawkeye was incredibly efficient in the tournament I was in. Almost every shot hit and anything with fly just evaporated against the CHE.

Were you using Expert Crafters? Seems like you could save the CP by using this. Although if you shoot at anything with -1, both reroll 1s and 1 reroll to hit might mesh well if you roll a 2.

-

Khaine wrote:Banshees are.. bordering on okay now? The Exarch with piercing strike & Salamanders re-rolls gives them some decent damage impact, even against vehicles, and they still have their niche overwatch ignoring/tie up role. It's maybe the best they've been since 4th.

They still need 3A base or a points drop though. FAQ it GW!

No they're still not great and relying on rerolls isn't enough to get them there unfortunately.

Galef wrote:

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
1CP for both Marksman's Eye and Hawkeye was incredibly efficient in the tournament I was in. Almost every shot hit and anything with fly just evaporated against the CHE.

Were you using Expert Crafters? Seems like you could save the CP by using this. Although if you shoot at anything with -1, both reroll 1s and 1 reroll to hit might mesh well if you roll a 2.

-

Ran them as standard Alaitoc. -2 is still too good to pass up and losing 1CP at the start of the game isn't a big deal when you hit on 2s and reroll 1s.

 Sarigar wrote:
I've been looking at Ynnarri and Harlequins for additional Mortal wound abilities. Ynnarri characters can go in non Ynarri Detachments (with some caveats). I'm not sure I want to use Warlocks for Mortal Wounds. My current list has 5 Mortal Wound powers that can be cast per turn; Smite x 3, Executioner, Gaze of Ynnead. Highest WC is a 7 which seems fairly easy with multiple methods to get bonuses. Yvraine, psychic power, Relic, stratagem.

I use a harlequin command detachment with 2 shadowseers, jester and solitair with suit of hidden knifes relic. shadowseers can cast smite + another mortal wound power each and shoot with grenade launchers. Combine this with a hemlock and that leadership starts dropping making It more likely for the grenades to add another few mortal wounds.

 Khaine wrote:
Banshees are.. bordering on okay now? The Exarch with piercing strike & Salamanders re-rolls gives them some decent damage impact

Okay is what they were, now they're pretty interesting and have actual variation on how to run them. I think Disarming Strike is where it is, but Piercing Strike, Shriek & -1 to hit/5+++ all have their uses. It depends on list and units fielded with them really.

I've been running a single msu in some lists, piercing strike does give them a nice bit of duality, I agree. (I run expert crafters too, which makes it much more viable).

Expert Crafters is only time I'd run it, since it gives some guarantee for at least one hit landing for that 3 damage. This is closest to Banshees being more annoying than just their regular thing; a single AM wheelrobot down is already good news for them.

So I played an ITC game last night and the list was a bit of a rush to make as I made it on the train to the game but I ended up winning and I'm taking it again as I thoroughly enjoyed how it played.

It's obviously not as optimised as it could be but thoughts on the list? I do want to try and slot another detachment in there somewhere as the -1CP for taking two exarch traits was a big deal in last night's game.
There are definitely points that could be spent elsewhere but I don't know what to slot in to improve the list other than a cheap support weapon.

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [74 PL, 7CP, 1,462pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot [8CP] +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Craftworld Attribute: Alaitoc: Fieldcraft

Detachment CP [5CP]

The Path of War

+ HQ [12 PL, 242pts] +

Autarch Skyrunner [6 PL, 127pts]: 5: Mark of the Incomparable Hunter, Banshee Mask, Craftworlds Warlord, Laser Lance, Reaper Launcher, Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Shimmerplume of Achillrial

Farseer [6 PL, 115pts]: 0. Smite, 1. Guide, 2. Doom, Shuriken Pistol, Singing Spear

+ Troops [9 PL, 180pts] +

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]: 5x Ranger [60pts]

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]: 5x Ranger [60pts]

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]: 5x Ranger [60pts]

+ Fast Attack [13 PL, 240pts] +

Shining Spears [10 PL, 172pts]
. 4x Shining Spear [136pts]: 4x Laser Lance, 4x Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Shining Spear Exarch [36pts]: Star Lance, Twin Shuriken Catapult
. . Exarch Power: Skilled Rider

Swooping Hawks [3 PL, 68pts]
. 4x Swooping Hawk [52pts]: 4x Lasblaster
. Swooping Hawk Exarch [16pts]: Hawk's Talon
. . Exarch Power: Swooping Barrage

+ Heavy Support [13 PL, 345pts] +

Dark Reapers [13 PL, 345pts]
. 9x Dark Reaper [306pts]: 9x Reaper Launcher
. Dark Reaper Exarch [39pts]: Tempest Launcher
. . Exarch Power: Rain of Death

+ Flyer [9 PL, -1CP, 161pts] +

Crimson Hunter Exarch [9 PL, -1CP, 161pts]: Two Starcannons
. Exarch Power [-1CP]: Exemplar of the Hunter Shrine [-1CP], Hawkeye, Marksman's Eye

+ Dedicated Transport [18 PL, 294pts] +

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 147pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Twin Shuriken Cannon

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 147pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Twin Shuriken Cannon

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [31 PL, 1CP, 538pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot [1CP] +

Craftworld Attribute: Alaitoc: Fieldcraft

Detachment CP [1CP]

+ HQ [4 PL, 67pts] +

Warlock Skyrunner [4 PL, 67pts]: 1. Fateful Divergence, 4. Protect/Jinx, Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Witchblade

+ Heavy Support [27 PL, 471pts] +

Fire Prism [9 PL, 157pts]: Twin Shuriken Catapult

Fire Prism [9 PL, 157pts]: Twin Shuriken Catapult

Fire Prism [9 PL, 157pts]: Twin Shuriken Catapult

++ Total: [105 PL, 8CP, 2,000pts] ++

What's going in the Wave Serpents? Obviously the Reapers want to start in one, but the second seems unnecessary.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
What's going in the Wave Serpents? Obviously the Reapers want to start in one, but the second seems unnecessary.

Wave Serpents are either shot to pieces or are ignored, both of which are good for me. You're correct that the Reapers can start in one so they can't be shot at. The easy replacement for the extra one is a CHE but I don't have another one at present.

They're durable so don't give away points for ITC missions easily and if someone is going to shoot it I don't really care as the squishy parts of my army are protected.

Their size means they act as a good screen and if they're ignored they can front overwatch, charge tanks, and tie up shooty units. They're also really fast so recon is an easy 4 points for the game if they are ignored.

The serpent shield is also an excellent offensive tool for guaranteeing the death of low wound units or bracketing tanks to ensure kills.

Interesting, Wave Serpents are undoubtedly very good but I've never fielded them empty. My current list is very similar to yours except with only one serpent, 9 Spears, a Guardian bomb and no Hawks. I also have the only owning one Crimson Hunter problem. Do the Hawks help much?

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Interesting, Wave Serpents are undoubtedly very good but I've never fielded them empty. My current list is very similar to yours except with only one serpent, 9 Spears, a Guardian bomb and no Hawks. I also have the only owning one Crimson Hunter problem. Do the Hawks help much?

The Hawks honestly aren't great and very dependent on the match up for them to be decent. I went for the 5+ mortal wound grenade pack trait and they didn't cause a single mortal wound the entire game. They've have been handy for contesting objectives, and being generally annoying so I guess for 68pts they're not the worst. I've been using them since PA came out and they're definitely a unit that could be replaced.

How do you find the Spears? They're a bit mixed in my limited usage of them although I am only running 5 of them. They're a big bullet magnet and they're pretty durable when the exarch is living.

EDIT: I've had a look at some of the Eldar SoCal lists and one that placed well used Hawks and they look like they could work pretty well with specific Craftworld traits.

Spears are absolute killing machines if you can get a full squad into range, but yeah bullet magnets. Going first and getting Protect off is very important, which makes them a bit swingy. I take a Spiritseer as warlord with the reroll psychic test trait to try and guarantee it goes off (82% chance I think). It leaves me with a very squishy warlord sadly.

I was keen on the idea of 5+ mortal wounds on the Swooping Hawks Grenades, but my experience was similar to yours when I tried them. Against Primaris marines their damage output is non-existent and there are other options for objective grabbing.

EDIT: Were they using 5 man units in those lists?

Two five man squads each with an exarch that has suppressing fire using the headstrong and children of khaine craftworld traits.

Mostly filler for the Shining Spears that person brought.

Here's a link to the top 110(?) lists: https://www.battle-report.com/2019/10/28/2019-socal-open-warhammer-40k-grand-tournament/

I am definitely considering breaking out a spiritseer again but he can't keep up with spears like a jetlock can. Guess that's the trade off.

Thanks for the link. If suppressing fire is the one that reduces charge distances I do think that might be handy. They can screen out deepstriking assault units really well with that.

I've been giving the Sprirtseer the wing relic that lets him move 12" which helps. I also have a jetlock with Protect/Jinx and Ghostwalk as a backup to cast Protect if needed, but otherwise Jinx things.