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I personally think the Suppressing Fire option is the way to go. They are incredibly cheap screening units, that can stop 1st turn charges, or, simply drop down onto objectives and remove chaff.

So with the new powers you can have protect/kinx and trade smite/destructor for one of the new powers?

Im waiting for my PR book so havent got the exact wording in front of me.

Yep that's how it works. Warlocks might as well always take one of the new powers.

Yeah replacing smite with runes of fortune is one of the few positives from this book.

Awesome! Thanks.

Brought the same list last night as I did on Monday and it performed well. I didn't face a very competitive Ork list so the result was a tabling on turn 3.

The Hawks didn't do much again unfortunately, maybe they're just good as a screen/objective grabber.

The Spears were incredible coupled with a Banshee mask Jet Autarch.

The Wave Serpents served their purpose of being overwatch bait too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I was thinking that as this is a tactics thread, there is no dedicated tactics for specific units, craftworlds and stratagems like there are for other armies on this board.

Would anyone like to join me in this endeavour and we can make a community project out of it?

Have you got scorpions to try rather than hawks? Little bit cheaper, tougher but without the redployment potential.
They're nothing special but 55 PTS isn't a lot for a 2+ in cover and the exarch can choose a -1 to hit in cover ability if I remember correctly.

I have a small squad of them so will likely give them a go at some point in the new year as I won't be playing many more games on the run up to Christmas.

They're better than Banshees at least.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Brought the same list last night as I did on Monday and it performed well. I didn't face a very competitive Ork list so the result was a tabling on turn 3.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I was thinking that as this is a tactics thread, there is no dedicated tactics for specific units, craftworlds and stratagems like there are for other armies on this board.

Would anyone like to join me in this endeavour and we can make a community project out of it?

What do you mean exactly?
Do you mean like a unit by unit breakdown ?

I should have been clearer sorry! I would like to make a unit by unit, strat by strat breakdown with synergies. Think 1d4chan tactics but with a little bit more seriousness to them.

I see. I really like the idea. And tis thread does provide that to an extent.

However there would be a problem of control.. Unless its run by an admin/limited privilege where only useful information gets filtered as a sub forum or a locked thread or something, it will end up just like what we already have now with this thread which is a hodge podge of information..

We have covered all the various units and tactics on their use extensively at one point on another. Its just buried...

As rules and updates come out, and new people join asking questions it turns into bit of an incoherent mess... I'm all up for an Eldar specific dedicated tactics forum/message board though for sure.

It doesn't have to be on dakka but dakka has a huge pool of players and users to draw on. Alternatively you could start a new thread and discuss things like when to sue certain strats, unit breakdowns etc from your POV. I'm all in..

But you will probably end up with a bunch of people saying that XYZ is not true because they are doing ABC.. An then people devolve into arguing minor mathammer differences in a vacuum and point efficiencies etc. But if you caveat it with a reasonable premise it could work.

Jeez that sounds rather depressing.. I don't mean to be a Negative Nancy! In my limited brain capacity I'm trying to be pragmatic/reslitic.

I think about now is a nice time to start such a write up, Eldar are unlikely to get any more significant rules for a while besides CA etc.

It would be nice to have something in this thread, conveniently we are up to page 150 so it would be a cool thing to direct people to the 'Unit tactic post on Pg150'.

The issue with this thread is that it is started by a guy who wanted to plug his own website as the tactica source, but then lost interest after a short time. We could petition a mod to change the thread title to include a reference to a unit breakdown post on this page or something.

If you wanna get it started I'm sure plenty of people will help submit unit entries. I'm a bit out of the current competitive meta loop having not played in a while but being a long time collector I do have some experience with some of the lesser known units which I'd be happy to put into words. Just be prepared to do a fair bit yourself of course if there aren't many contributors to start with.

I'd concentrate on synergies like you say, and avoid 'tier lists' and the like, they tend to be too subjective. Focus on 'how do we make each of these units work'

The idea could work if we start a new thread, everyone can post their 2ct, OP could gather everything in the first post and then delete the write up underneath (seeing as Mr. Tyranid Horde has a mod tag ).
I would chime in for sure!

I'd like that a lot! Not that I could contribute but I'd surely benefit from it

Maybe take a look at the Ork tactics thread (No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread).

Jidmah did an amazing job in the first post and always keeps it up to date!

Argive wrote:I see. I really like the idea. And tis thread does provide that to an extent.

However there would be a problem of control.. Unless its run by an admin/limited privilege where only useful information gets filtered as a sub forum or a locked thread or something, it will end up just like what we already have now with this thread which is a hodge podge of information..

We have covered all the various units and tactics on their use extensively at one point on another. Its just buried...

As rules and updates come out, and new people join asking questions it turns into bit of an incoherent mess... I'm all up for an Eldar specific dedicated tactics forum/message board though for sure.

It doesn't have to be on dakka but dakka has a huge pool of players and users to draw on. Alternatively you could start a new thread and discuss things like when to sue certain strats, unit breakdowns etc from your POV. I'm all in..

But you will probably end up with a bunch of people saying that XYZ is not true because they are doing ABC.. An then people devolve into arguing minor mathammer differences in a vacuum and point efficiencies etc. But if you caveat it with a reasonable premise it could work.

Jeez that sounds rather depressing.. I don't mean to be a Negative Nancy! In my limited brain capacity I'm trying to be pragmatic/reslitic.

Well this is the thing! We lose information as people discuss different things in this thread so it would be nice to have a central reference point which I may make a separate thread for and go from there.

You're quite right that there will be differing opinions on certain matters but if we were able to set up a peer review system we could keep things pretty objective for the main tactica while still maintaining opinions for the rest of the thread.

It's a big undertaking and it's good to be positive and negative

Spartacus wrote:I think about now is a nice time to start such a write up, Eldar are unlikely to get any more significant rules for a while besides CA etc.

It would be nice to have something in this thread, conveniently we are up to page 150 so it would be a cool thing to direct people to the 'Unit tactic post on Pg150'.

The issue with this thread is that it is started by a guy who wanted to plug his own website as the tactica source, but then lost interest after a short time. We could petition a mod to change the thread title to include a reference to a unit breakdown post on this page or something.

If you wanna get it started I'm sure plenty of people will help submit unit entries. I'm a bit out of the current competitive meta loop having not played in a while but being a long time collector I do have some experience with some of the lesser known units which I'd be happy to put into words. Just be prepared to do a fair bit yourself of course if there aren't many contributors to start with.

I'd concentrate on synergies like you say, and avoid 'tier lists' and the like, they tend to be too subjective. Focus on 'how do we make each of these units work'

Yeah I agree with you, as PA has just come out there are few places on the web to find updated information and with CA on the horizon we could have a v1 and a post-CA update in the new year or some such.

I do enjoy the competitive scene but there are regional differences in the meta (which is cool) so it's good to have a broad perspective. I'll be happy to do write ups on units along with others as we have a relatively small group posting on this topic.

I think we should have a tier list to extent but maintain it as a fairly loose one as they are subjective at the end of the day.

Cpt. Icanus wrote:The idea could work if we start a new thread, everyone can post their 2ct, OP could gather everything in the first post and then delete the write up underneath (seeing as Mr. Tyranid Horde has a mod tag ).
I would chime in for sure!

I like the idea of starting a new thread, it would keep things clean and we wouldn't have to chase mods to update the OP all the time (I'm not a mod ). Good to have you on board!

Waaaghbert wrote:I'd like that a lot! Not that I could contribute but I'd surely benefit from it

Maybe take a look at the Ork tactics thread (No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread).

Jidmah did an amazing job in the first post and always keeps it up to date!

Yeah Jidmah's tactica is a fantastic resource and it's definitely one of my sources of inspiration for this "project". I'm on this forum enough to where I think I could keep it updated with everyone's contributions.



Before I go about making a new thread, would anyone prefer it to be here or prefer it to be a fresh start?

I'd say new start, you can edit it anyways, right?

Waaaghbert wrote:
I'd say new start, you can edit it anyways, right?

A new thread would mean I could update the OP yes!

Yeah I'm on board. With the number of point changes, FAQ, PR and exarch powers we are pretty much in new edition anyway in all but name. Might as well start fresh and with proper admin support keep OP up to date.

Might be worth waiting until CA though? I think that will bring some points changes which may well change our army composition. For example, If CHE gets a substantial hike up in points and other stuff drops, I think you will see very different armies and different tactics.

Worth discussing how we'd format it: Are we looking for unit by unit breakdown in a theoretical vacuum, or more in terms; of these are the detachments I use and this is how I use them.
Also noteworthy distinction between ICT and non-ITC. I don't deal with magic boxes and ruins LOS and play with bigger terrain pieces for proper LOS blocking. Therefore my army compositions will be different from someone who plays exclusively ITC.

And here i thought the DCM tag were mods... you learn something everyday

Waiting for CA might be a good call. Then again it changes points only, if we don't go for a tier-list points shouldn't change the specifics of units, just their efficiency would have to be re-evaluated.

So I played my first game with phoenix rising rules as well as wraith host specialist detachment. The game was against custodes.

I played:




I won only because maelstrom draws were good to me and I absolutely run away with the points in the first 2-3 rounds. Round 4 My army was pretty much gone. The guy was playing to table rather than mission... However, dealing with all the 2+ 4++ was not rly doable.

He had a really hard-hitting mean army; bike squad, captain on bike, 2 FW dreads, 2 FW tanks, 1 FW transport tank thing. Troops with melta, and other stuff. Mostly FW units.

The heroes that pretty much carried the game for me were the Dark reapers. Managed to tuck them away behind a nice bit of LOS blocking terrain and they were going to town. The fire twice on AML is nice - (I did the strat to do D3 MW to finish of a bike which was holding up my lines and arguably won me the game..) Also didn't roll hot on my psychic dmg sadly. pretty much 1 MW per spell..

The rerolls on tempest shots are ace! Coupled with doom they did the business even on custodes. Before I found the tempest to be fairly ineffective against T5. But with the autarch support, All the single 3dmg shots were very reliable, re-rolled either 1's from autarch or from master crafters and then the wounds on high-value stuff..

The DA exarch were a nice little wound plinkers. They were mostly left alone due to other stuff being more threatening. The wraith lords also did the business but I found because they were rushing forward they hardly benefited from the cover trait as were usually within 12". Same with the wraithguard. I think it's useful for 1st round if you don't go first but loses its potency pretty quickly. I think in my next game I might drop the swords and go with BL/Scat on all the wraith lords. I'm determined to make the wraiths work

The list itself was pretty hodge-podge. I kind of worked with what I have. I normally paly around 1500pts.. The shadow weaver was just filer for example because I didn't have a 3rd wraith lord and I wanted to play dual battalion as I've finally got around to building and priming enough troops to field. I felt I needed a dual battalion because of the specialist detachment I wanted to try the strategems.. I burned through that CP pretty darn fast... 2 CP for a 4++ on a single WL or a 5 man guard unit is just too steep. In hindsight, I think I'd drop the guardian bomb because I just run out of CP for black guardians or celestial shield so they sort of melted away pretty quickly managed to shred one of his tanks. If going for wraith host kind of have to go all in due to the cost of the invuln strat. You're looking to do it at least twice I recon. So that's 4 cp for the strat plus 1 cp for the actual detachment...

All in all, really lovin master crafters. Wasn't too keen on the cover but it certainly proves useful in some spots.

I just played my mate's Custodes list too - lots of bikes and shield caps, DS allarus, sagitarum troops, the usual. I bring a lot of starcannons in my lists, so I burned him down by T4.

Wraithblades countercharging out of waveserpents saved my bacon - they hit so hard.

Expert crafters is doing amazing work for me, and I'm moving towards threat-saturation and lots of single units. Wraithseers, MSU Spears, Vibro cannons, they're all doing good work now. So despite my sniffiness about PA, it did bring MSU Spears up to viable, and did introduce a new way to play CWE, which is great news.

 grouchoben wrote:
I just played my mate's Custodes list too - lots of bikes and shield caps, DS allarus, sagitarum troops, the usual. I bring a lot of starcannons in my lists, so I burned him down by T4.

Wraithblades countercharging out of waveserpents saved my bacon - they hit so hard.

Expert crafters is doing amazing work for me, and I'm moving towards threat-saturation and lots of single units. Wraithseers, MSU Spears, Vibro cannons, they're all doing good work now. So despite my sniffiness about PA, it did bring MSU Spears up to viable and did introduce a new way to play CWE, which is great news.

Yeah, master crafters really breaks away from: Biggest possible blob of XYZ + guide + doom.
Not needing guide, and doom to some degree, frees up psychic support and points elsewhere potentially and really lends itself to trying new things. Storm guardians and A fusion is also pretty nifty I think.

I hope for a drop in heavy weapons costs/fusion. EML, in particular, would be really interesting if it was cheaper. Tbh any points drop would be handy on things like vyper..

What's taking our flyers out of the sky? Why did flyer spam disappear?

Flyer spam hasn't disappeared?

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Flyer spam hasn't disappeared?

It's nowhere to be found in top 4s of November and dropped sharply in October.

karandrasss wrote:
What's taking our flyers out of the sky? Why did flyer spam disappear?

its nu-marines sheer weight of dice and re-rolls per the intertubes, I suspect its a smidge chikken likken but from the (admittedly limited) reading I've done there seems be a intent at GW to smooth out minus to hit abilities (ofc if they'd done the sums to show how silly it is in a d6 games...)

still think it'll be a thing as for all the hype past 24" nu-marines output drops off

karandrasss wrote:

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Flyer spam hasn't disappeared?

It's nowhere to be found in top 4s of November and dropped sharply in October.

It's still being run, it's just Iron Hands, Imperial Fists among others are running amok at the top tables.

Chapter Master rules have knocked the stuffing out of flyerspam.

But another reason flyer-spam has dropped out of Top 4 GT lists is, well, CWE are far less common in Top 4s now.

What are they taking with Chapter Masters that are so hard to deal with?

karandrasss wrote:
What are they taking with Chapter Masters that are so hard to deal with?

Quite literally everything. CMs going to Cawl grade makes a massive difference in what damage gets through. T6/3+ is fragile.