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Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






 Korlandril wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Korlandril wrote:
An idea I like is having a 20 man guardian defender squad with two Shuriken Cannons webway striking in.

You can deepstrike them so they are all in range, into cover if it is available (2+ save on the heavy weapon platforms in cover). These guys can also take up a huge footprint. Blocking off part of the board, objective securing objectives if needed.

With Alaitoc providing you can wipe out anything within 12" you are a lot more durable. Also realistically your opponent can only get so many units within 12" so these are a real pain for your opponent to deal with. Using at the right time can really throw a spanner in the works for your opponent

I don't see much value in cannons over catapults. Ether bright lance or star cannon makes the most sense. Or no weapons at all. Actually thinking about it - weapons platforms are the least effiecent place to put weapons because an 8 point gardian can't shoot - essentially that weapon is costing you +8 points to it's actual cost.


The value in Cannons is you can shoot them after deepstriking with no penalty and they are the cheapest. The idea of them is to massively boost the guardians defence because they are 3+ and 2+ if in cover. This means your opponent has to waste higher AP weaponary or more lower ap on them. So you are wrong they are not a waste as they are a way of increasing the survivability of the squad.

Bright lances would be a waste as only two shots and they are quite expensive and hitting on 4+ on turn they deepstrike. Star Cannons might be a good choice as they are only adding 10 pts to the unit in question but again suffer from -1 to hit and you want to be soaking up wounds with them not relying on them for hitting power.
Not a bad idea actually. Didn't think about them defensively because I naturally assume you will keep them alive to shoot more. It makes the 4++ strategem even more effective because if you also hit the unit with protect. You will have a 2+ save to absorb the mass firepower and a 3++ save for everything else. Guardians are so freaking awesome now.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in nz
Unshakeable Grey Knight Land Raider Pilot




 Galef wrote:
Fictional wrote:

The way I see most of it, just from basic interpretation of "you can use the index where a unit is not in the codex", boils down to what "a unit" means.

If the unit has an identically named entry in the codex, you can not use the index.

So, as example, you have Autarch, Autarch with Wings and Autarch with Jump Generator, the first 2 are in the Codex, so you are compelled to use the codex entry, the last one you use the Index for, but with Codex points costs.


Just my logical interpretation, excluding any FAQs, GW input on the matter or any other legitimately established interpretations and rules.

I agree with this. It also makes it easier to explain to non-Eldar players.

So if you want to use that Reaper-launcher kitted Autarch, it'd better be the Jump Generator one from the Index.
If you had a Winged or Skyrunner Autarch with Reaper Launcher, you either ignore it, or cut it off.

-


This is not the intention of GWs comments though, nor a correct interpretation of what they achieve. They use the example of a SM dreadnaught with autocannons as a unit which lost options in the recent codex. There is only one entry for a normal dreadnaught so if you want the autocannons you have to take the index entry.

A few years ago I bought an Autarch with Hawk wings, a reaper launcher and a power sword. GWs comments allow me to take the datasheet from the index, as the one in the codex does not have these options, just like in the case of the dreadnaught.

GW is making a very thoughful move here by protecting its paying customers fron having their previously purchased models invalidated by new rules. I for one appreciate it very much.

The perceived exploits/balance issues are 2nd priority to this in my opinion, and should be fixed by actually fixing the rules, not restricting players from using their lovingly built and painted models.

And whatever issues the autarch cause seem pretty minor compared to already existing balance problems with 8th
   
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UK

+++++ Website Update +++++

And we are back! And much improved!

At least I think so. The new layout and design for the unit sections are better. Little nicer looking.

Work is continuing on summaries, loadouts and tactics.

Also could use some help with a colour scheme and finding a decent header/title image haha.
   
Made in gb
Sneaky Striking Scorpion






 Xenomancers wrote:
 Korlandril wrote:
Spoiler:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Korlandril wrote:
An idea I like is having a 20 man guardian defender squad with two Shuriken Cannons webway striking in.

You can deepstrike them so they are all in range, into cover if it is available (2+ save on the heavy weapon platforms in cover). These guys can also take up a huge footprint. Blocking off part of the board, objective securing objectives if needed.

With Alaitoc providing you can wipe out anything within 12" you are a lot more durable. Also realistically your opponent can only get so many units within 12" so these are a real pain for your opponent to deal with. Using at the right time can really throw a spanner in the works for your opponent

I don't see much value in cannons over catapults. Ether bright lance or star cannon makes the most sense. Or no weapons at all. Actually thinking about it - weapons platforms are the least effiecent place to put weapons because an 8 point gardian can't shoot - essentially that weapon is costing you +8 points to it's actual cost.


The value in Cannons is you can shoot them after deepstriking with no penalty and they are the cheapest. The idea of them is to massively boost the guardians defence because they are 3+ and 2+ if in cover. This means your opponent has to waste higher AP weaponary or more lower ap on them. So you are wrong they are not a waste as they are a way of increasing the survivability of the squad.

Bright lances would be a waste as only two shots and they are quite expensive and hitting on 4+ on turn they deepstrike. Star Cannons might be a good choice as they are only adding 10 pts to the unit in question but again suffer from -1 to hit and you want to be soaking up wounds with them not relying on them for hitting power.
Not a bad idea actually. Didn't think about them defensively because I naturally assume you will keep them alive to shoot more. It makes the 4++ strategem even more effective because if you also hit the unit with protect. You will have a 2+ save to absorb the mass firepower and a 3++ save for everything else. Guardians are so freaking awesome now.


Didn't even consider protect, that's an insane combo, even without the strat once they get through the weapon platforms guardians are 4+ and in cover 3+.

I often see comments that Warlocks are over costed or not worth it but their powers are fantastic for getting these great combinations going.

~500pts Asuryani painted new colour scheme
~7500pts Asuryani assembled some with old colour scheme
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





You really want to protect your 8 point models by killing a 15 point model?

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

 DarknessEternal wrote:
You really want to protect your 8 point models by killing a 15 point model?

They idea is that by having a better armour save, you might stop several wounds getting through by making saves that the 8pt models would not be able to make.
I don't think it's a particularly effective tactic at all, but I suppose it gives some people peace of mind. I'd rather just buy 2 more Guardians

-

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/31 19:40:19


   
Made in gb
Sneaky Striking Scorpion






 DarknessEternal wrote:
You really want to protect your 8 point models by killing a 15 point model?


Yep when it's 7.5ppw and has a 3+ save it's well worth it. Trust me I have used it to great success


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Galef wrote:
 DarknessEternal wrote:
You really want to protect your 8 point models by killing a 15 point model?

They idea is that by having a better armour save, you might stop several wounds getting through by making saves that the 8pt models would not be able to make.
I don't think it's a particularly effective tactic at all, but I suppose it gives some people peace of mind. I'd rather just buy 2 more Guardians

-


It is an effective tactic, two more guardians is 1 point more expensive and both have a 5+ save.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/31 19:42:02


~500pts Asuryani painted new colour scheme
~7500pts Asuryani assembled some with old colour scheme
 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






 Galef wrote:
 DarknessEternal wrote:
You really want to protect your 8 point models by killing a 15 point model?

They idea is that by having a better armour save, you might stop several wounds getting through by making saves that the 8pt models would not be able to make.
I don't think it's a particularly effective tactic at all, but I suppose it gives some people peace of mind. I'd rather just buy 2 more Guardians

-

20 gardians max though. Plus command point spent on getting them into action first turn. They have to kill the gardians - they are just too dangerous at that range so if I can make it 2-3 times hard to kill them - it protects my other stuff.

I'm going to be playing Ulthwe because that's how my army is painted so - I even get a 6++ on top of that. Plus I should be getting some command points back. Might even be able to keep that cycle going if I get lucky.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/31 19:45:56


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





PDX

Looking for some feedback on these lists, as I am an Eldar noob.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
I can see value if you Guide them though. I like the potential of 20x2 Alaitoc Guardians + Farseer module.


Think i'd rather 1 ulthwe squad with webway strike and Ulthwe strategem. That's some very cost effective damage.
   
Made in nz
Dakka Veteran




mmimzie wrote:
Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
I can see value if you Guide them though. I like the potential of 20x2 Alaitoc Guardians + Farseer module.


Think i'd rather 1 ulthwe squad with webway strike and Ulthwe strategem. That's some very cost effective damage.


Yeah Ulthwe is definitely the best for fire and forget. The only thing that really sucks is the morale issue.

   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

 Xenomancers wrote:

Vyper costs 70 wthi 2x SC
5 Swooping hawks costs64

I think these are our best fast attack options.

I have squadron of 3 dual Shuricannon Vypers I converted so long ago the cannons are the old metal jetbike versions (that was some hack-job ). Nice to know they seem to be worth using now.

For giggles, I compared one to a Primaris Inceptor which is only 10 points less. Both get 6 shots and are Flyers. Inceptor shoots at S5 AP-1, Vyper shoots at S6 Ap- but 6s to wound become AP-3 so Vypers have a slight edge. Durability is where is gets crazy though as both units have T5 and a 3+ save but the Vyper gets 6 wounds to the Inceptor's 2. Vypers also have 24" range to the Inceptor's 18". Vypers are looking quite tidy!

I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star. 
   
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Regular Dakkanaut




Niiru wrote:
xmbk wrote:
 Fafnir wrote:
xmbk wrote:
popisdead wrote:
ryzouken wrote:
He falls under the table of special characters in the points section, if nothing else.


That points section isn't enough to argue a generic instance is unique.


Why the heck not? It literally identifies him as a special character. Barring a FAQ, that's the preponderance of evidence.


There is nothing in the book that defines what a 'named character' (save Prince Yriel), and nothing in the book that specifies the Avatar as one. Moreover, GW's own marketing people have been promoting the Avatar as such (which, not being an official source for rules, means nothing from a rules standpoint, but does emphasize the ambiguities in those rules).

You can have one Avatar in your army. That is the only restriction currently placed upon him by RAW.


Nothing, other than listing him as one in the points section. I do not think nothing means what you think it means.



You should check your codex. The points section lists him as a "Unit", not a named character.


Et tu, Niiru?

He's listed with all the SC. What is he missing that all the other named chars have? Is Asurmen exempt because he also is missing a Craftworld keyword?
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




UK

xmbk wrote:
Niiru wrote:
xmbk wrote:
 Fafnir wrote:
xmbk wrote:
popisdead wrote:
ryzouken wrote:
He falls under the table of special characters in the points section, if nothing else.


That points section isn't enough to argue a generic instance is unique.


Why the heck not? It literally identifies him as a special character. Barring a FAQ, that's the preponderance of evidence.


There is nothing in the book that defines what a 'named character' (save Prince Yriel), and nothing in the book that specifies the Avatar as one. Moreover, GW's own marketing people have been promoting the Avatar as such (which, not being an official source for rules, means nothing from a rules standpoint, but does emphasize the ambiguities in those rules).

You can have one Avatar in your army. That is the only restriction currently placed upon him by RAW.


Nothing, other than listing him as one in the points section. I do not think nothing means what you think it means.



You should check your codex. The points section lists him as a "Unit", not a named character.


Et tu, Niiru?

He's listed with all the SC. What is he missing that all the other named chars have? Is Asurmen exempt because he also is missing a Craftworld keyword?



Well, what he's missing is a name. That is just a list of units that come with their wargear prices included. While I totally agree that it's a list of Unique Characters, it's not a list of Named Characters.

I'm not saying that GW intends the Avatar to be able to use relics etc, there really is no way to know. Their design, marketing and community teams all seem to be saying that the Avatar can take certain relics, but the rules are weirdly unclear on the matter.

In other codices, that characters list is actually titled "named characters", which would have been nice to have for Eldar if they were going to put in a rule denying named characters certain upgrades.

I expect this to be FAQ'd soon.

So yeh, just to reiterate - I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you in how the rule is INTENDED. It's just not the way it's written.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




I think Vypers still suffer a lot from "why wouldn't you just take a Wave Serpent?" Instead of 2 Vypers you could take 1 slightly cheaper Serpent, with 75% of the firepower and like a million times the durability. Vypers are prime targets for multi-damage weapons and I feel like they're going to get blown up pretty quickly in most games.

In my games so far, Swooping Hawks have struck me as almost good but not quite there. They're not great anti-horde, which is what you'd think they're for given their guns -- the firepower of a single FRFSRF lasgun at 12" is just not that impressive (look at what basic Elysian infantry can put out if they deep strike with an officer). They're also pretty fragile for their cost, though at least they can always be in cover. They're weirdly good against MEQs because of their grenades, but it's not like Eldar need help killing MEQs. So basically in most games they're only really useful for holding objectives, but Rangers do this better, being more durable with probably overall-better shooting. Hawks aren't even that mobile relative to other Eldar units; Skyleap doesn't even help much here since a bike unit could have moved 44" in those same two turns without giving up any shooting. They really need to be cheaper or to pack more anti-GEQ punch.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/31 23:08:00


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




UK

Dionysodorus wrote:
I think Vypers still suffer a lot from "why wouldn't you just take a Wave Serpent?" Instead of 2 Vypers you could take 1 slightly cheaper Serpent, with 75% of the firepower and like a million times the durability. Vypers are prime targets for multi-damage weapons and I feel like they're going to get blown up pretty quickly in most games.

In my games so far, Swooping Hawks have struck me as almost good but not quite there. They're not great anti-horde, which is what you'd think they're for given their guns -- the firepower of a single FRFSRF lasgun at 12" is just not that impressive (look at what basic Elysian infantry can put out if they deep strike with an officer). They're also pretty fragile for their cost, though at least they can always be in cover. They're weirdly good against MEQs because of their grenades, but it's not like Eldar need help killing MEQs. So basically in most games they're only really useful for holding objectives, but Rangers do this better, being more durable with probably overall-better shooting. Hawks aren't even that mobile relative to other Eldar units; Skyleap doesn't even help much here since a bike unit could have moved 44" in those same two turns without giving up any shooting. They really need to be cheaper or to pack more anti-GEQ punch.



I have to say, I've been wondering a similar thing, except I wonder why you'd take Vypers when you could take War Walkers. Usually if you want two big weapons on a platform, you don't really want/need it to be moving 16" a turn. There's no armour facings anymore, so jetting around to hit side/rear armour is pointless. And all the Eldar heavy weapons shoot across the board, so you don't need to get close.

I don't see the point of the outflank ability for war walkers either tbh.
   
Made in us
Steadfast Grey Hunter





You generally take Vypers because you’re looking to fill out a brigade or because you want mobile heavy weapons (for opening up firing angles and threading terrain) with the biker keyword to benefit from the samm hain craftworlder trait. Or because you have 70 points laying around and already filled your heavy support slots with other things.

They’re not your first choice, nor maybe your second, but they do have niches in which they shine.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/31 23:18:44


 
   
Made in ru
Screaming Shining Spear




Russia, Moscow

Niiru wrote:
I have to say, I've been wondering a similar thing, except I wonder why you'd take Vypers when you could take War Walkers

Vypers Soulburst and can be buffed with any psychic power from runes of Battle.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




UK

 Shadenuat wrote:
Niiru wrote:
I have to say, I've been wondering a similar thing, except I wonder why you'd take Vypers when you could take War Walkers

Vypers Soulburst and can be buffed with any psychic power from runes of Battle.


Ahhh well ok, that's true, though it only became true with the Codex (I think) haha.


I do prefer the Vyper model, so this might make me take them if I find a good use for the psychic powers or soulburst. Though I think this would only be worthwhile if you took a single squadron of 3, rather than 3 separate bikes.



++++ Website Announcement ++++

Anyone out there who would like to show off their paint jobs or conversion work, get in touch! The unit galleries are now up and running, and all we need are some photos to showcase!
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Dionysodorus wrote:I think Vypers still suffer a lot from "why wouldn't you just take a Wave Serpent?" Instead of 2 Vypers you could take 1 slightly cheaper Serpent, with 75% of the firepower and like a million times the durability. Vypers are prime targets for multi-damage weapons and I feel like they're going to get blown up pretty quickly in most games.

In my games so far, Swooping Hawks have struck me as almost good but not quite there. They're not great anti-horde, which is what you'd think they're for given their guns --.


So we most of the eldar's current forces for low anti infantry damage. For example when you have swooping hawks and dire avengers both attacking GEQ or MEQ models you get the same average damage per point. The different being that dire avengers are troops, and swooping hawks are exceedingly mobile. Though this is pretty much the same with all of eldar, and the only models that really get high marks on thier GEQ kills would be the standard guardian squad. The only way in my mind to combat this within eldar is to bring a hemlock and use taht to really help you cash in on those kills in the morale phase.

here's the math to compare: Vs GEQ (all 5man with exarch)
Dire avengers 64pt squad kills 4 GEQ .0625 wounds/pts
Swooping hawks 68pt squad kills 4.7 .0697 wounds/pts (didn't count the grenade but would be .83 more kills and would push them quite away over)


Compared to each other they come out close enough to be the same in my opinion as the biel-tan reroll ones attribute can put dire avengers over the hawks.. Both are even closer when you compare them to MEQ, i don't care to do the math again though x.x. Now lets look at defenders

20man defender squad 160pts 13 wounds which is .0833 wounds/pts

So as we can see putting down swooping hawks over dire avengers i think is kind of silly. To make this comparison.

Looking at and infantry squad with FRFSRF (factoring in half the cost of a company commander because you need them too).

10infantry +1/2 company commander 55 points thats 6.66 GEQ wounds or .121pts/wound

Which is waaay better than anything eldar can do. However with the hemlock bubble i think you can make the up. i think the hemlock is already worth it's points as an anti tank weapon:

Hemlock VS fire prism w/shurican cannon ( target a Russ)
Hemlock 200pts 5.33 wounds .02666 wound/pts
Fire prism stationary 165 3.5 wounds .0212

I take this again to be pretty darn close to a tie as the hemlock can cast smite, and has the speed to cuddle a tank while the fire prism can expend CP and have some friends to use linked fire.So it's a pretty decent anti tank model, but it also provvides a needed -2LD bubble that can convert your 4-5 wounds from your swooping hawks and dire avengers into failed morale checks. Assuming your infantry target is supported by a commissar that's LD7 (you gotta get the commissar in the bubble, which isn't to tough to do). Than every time your dire avengers attack that's an average of 1 more wound (in fact it's 1.75 with the new nerf as if you make the infantry squad fail even on a 4, than a guy gets shot and they have to roll again potentially losing more models, i put this is brackets because i'm not sure how the commissar change maths out, and don't care to figure it out lol). So, the bfuf really carries when you ahve multiple dire avenger and swooping hawk units shooting allowing you to mop up units. Still eldar is a bit bad at horde killing and it's more about picking everything else off, and then using the hemlock to covert your not horde killing units into something close to horde killing units.

The other GEQ problem is most of our buffs don't really help kill infantry squads quickly. Guide you can only hit so much stuff, again the best targets for this are 20 man storm guardian squads, but we only get 1 guide, and will that guardian unit be in range to shoot 2 full infantry squads??? eh. Doom is also useless here as you spending a lot of resources on a 40 man squad.

TLDR: hawks & avengers about the same MEQ/GEQ damage. Storm Guardians kill GEQ the best. Eldar suck at killing GEQ. Bring a Hemlock because with out buffs it better than a fire prism, and it helps counter the anti horde weakness.

Niiru wrote:
Dionysodorus wrote:
I think Vypers still suffer a lot from "why wouldn't you just take a Wave Serpent?" Instead of 2 Vypers you could take 1 slightly cheaper Serpent, with 75% of the firepower and like a million times the durability. Vypers are prime targets for multi-damage weapons and I feel like they're going to get blown up pretty quickly in most games.

In my games so far, Swooping Hawks have struck me as almost good but not quite there. They're not great anti-horde, which is what you'd think they're for given their guns -- the firepower of a single FRFSRF lasgun at 12" is just not that impressive (look at what basic Elysian infantry can put out if they deep strike with an officer). They're also pretty fragile for their cost, though at least they can always be in cover. They're weirdly good against MEQs because of their grenades, but it's not like Eldar need help killing MEQs. So basically in most games they're only really useful for holding objectives, but Rangers do this better, being more durable with probably overall-better shooting. Hawks aren't even that mobile relative to other Eldar units; Skyleap doesn't even help much here since a bike unit could have moved 44" in those same two turns without giving up any shooting. They really need to be cheaper or to pack more anti-GEQ punch.



I have to say, I've been wondering a similar thing, except I wonder why you'd take Vypers when you could take War Walkers. Usually if you want two big weapons on a platform, you don't really want/need it to be moving 16" a turn. There's no armour facings anymore, so jetting around to hit side/rear armour is pointless. And all the Eldar heavy weapons shoot across the board, so you don't need to get close.

I don't see the point of the outflank ability for war walkers either tbh.



The only purpose for vypers in my book is to get early charges with 3 man units of vypers to eat up over watch for some other turn 1 charging unit. While the vypers at the same time are still providing okayish damage.

War walkers though are some of the best Anti-tank weapons we have.(2blances) .0333 russ wounds/pts for each walker nice stuff. I honestly wouldn't equip them with anythign else and i also wouldn't out flank them to and get -1 to hit for no reason.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





So interesting question. The Pathfinders stratagem stipulates that rangers can only be hit on a roll of 6, regardless of other modifiers.

As this basically spells out the roll required for a hit, does this take precedence over the flamer 'this weapon always hits' rule? If it modified the roll to a BS 6+ I can see the flamer rule overriding it, because despite the ballistic skill requiring the higher number, the flamer will always hit, but there feels like there is some grey area when you have a second overriding the base rules.

After all 'this weapon always hits' can in itself be seen as a modifier. Probably something for the FAQ.
   
Made in se
Swift Swooping Hawk





 RuneGrey wrote:
So interesting question. The Pathfinders stratagem stipulates that rangers can only be hit on a roll of 6, regardless of other modifiers.

As this basically spells out the roll required for a hit, does this take precedence over the flamer 'this weapon always hits' rule? If it modified the roll to a BS 6+ I can see the flamer rule overriding it, because despite the ballistic skill requiring the higher number, the flamer will always hit, but there feels like there is some grey area when you have a second overriding the base rules.

After all 'this weapon always hits' can in itself be seen as a modifier. Probably something for the FAQ.

There's already an analogous situation with auto-hit weapons and Overwatch. Auto-hit trumps these rules.

Craftworld Sciatháin 4180 pts  
   
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Regular Dakkanaut




 RuneGrey wrote:
So interesting question. The Pathfinders stratagem stipulates that rangers can only be hit on a roll of 6, regardless of other modifiers.

As this basically spells out the roll required for a hit, does this take precedence over the flamer 'this weapon always hits' rule? If it modified the roll to a BS 6+ I can see the flamer rule overriding it, because despite the ballistic skill requiring the higher number, the flamer will always hit, but there feels like there is some grey area when you have a second overriding the base rules.

After all 'this weapon always hits' can in itself be seen as a modifier. Probably something for the FAQ.


No because flamers auto hit in overwatch and the same wording of "reguarless of any modifiers" is used.


Creamtea you scooped me haha

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/01 02:23:09


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Cool, good to know then!

As for the earlier comment, one improvement I was glad to see was Swooping Hawks becoming Assault 4 as opposed to Rapid Fire 2. Being able to shoot at extended ranges (and the pulling back out of retaliation range for 24" weapons) is a nice bonus for them, although their damage is still a little anemic. Still, the 40 shots you get out of 10 models should put at least some pressure on a few targets.
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




I've run the aforementioned webway strike 20 Guardian blob with 2x shuriken cannons in 2 games so far and it is incredible. A farseer skyrunner with guide and doom zooms up to support the guardians and whatever they sneeze at usually dies.
   
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Sneaky Striking Scorpion






barlw wrote:I've run the aforementioned webway strike 20 Guardian blob with 2x shuriken cannons in 2 games so far and it is incredible. A farseer skyrunner with guide and doom zooms up to support the guardians and whatever they sneeze at usually dies.


What craftworld do you run? Also have you been using any psychic buffs to protect your guardians? And have your opponents managed to deal with them?

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~7500pts Asuryani assembled some with old colour scheme
 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




Has anyone had any results running alaitoc dark reapers? With the inbuilt alaitoc -1 to hit plus conceal they seem like they will be relatively survivable. Can even throw on the extra -1 to hit strategem if needed. But is the extra survivability enough to keep them around for longer than a turn and two, worth losing strength from death for?
   
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Hamburg

 Korlandril wrote:
barlw wrote:I've run the aforementioned webway strike 20 Guardian blob with 2x shuriken cannons in 2 games so far and it is incredible. A farseer skyrunner with guide and doom zooms up to support the guardians and whatever they sneeze at usually dies.


What craftworld do you run? Also have you been using any psychic buffs to protect your guardians? And have your opponents managed to deal with them?

Unless you bolster the Guardians, they are a one-hit wonder. Moreover they need to pick their target well.
I hesitate using them in this role.

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Australia

I can't justify spending points on troops beyond the minimum required for Battalion/Brigade detachments, and 20 Guardians is only one slot. Our troops are not as terrible as they used to be, but when we've got such strong Elites/Heavy Support/Flyers, 5-man Ranger & Dire Avenger squads for 60/64 pts seem to me the way to go.
   
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So, what is the best combo for dealing with hordes? (orks, tyranids in particular)
   
 
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