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pilchard8 wrote:
Ive been running dark reapers quite a bit and my experience may not be good as some but i find the big squad which you webway in performs better either with a standard launcher or the ELM for the mortal wound stratagem. The range on the tempest launcher lets it down and you can keep out of range of most weapons with fire and fade.

I think running minimum squads with tempest launcher is the way forward, i only have 10 reapers at the moment and im reluctant to buy more until March comes around due to the nerf. Im going to proxy next game and give it a go with 2 min squads.

In trying to avoid reading through the crazy topic in You Make Da Call, was there a decision on whether the EML with stratagem still causes regular wounds with a hit, or is it just the mortal wounds?

Was wondering if anyone had any thoughts or experience with a lynx? I've been keeping track of this thread, mostly, but haven't seen it mentioned much, and so far there isn't a summary on the webway page.

I've got one sat on the shelf that hasn't seen the tabletop yet but I'm thinking of converting the pulsar to a sonic Lance. I feel like I've got other stuff that can do what the pulsar does much more efficiently, but the sonic Lance can potentially remove a unit a turn, and also thin those hordes down.

I do tend to face a lot of lascannons though, so it could just as easily turn into a 400pt lump.

 Trashpanda wrote:
Was wondering if anyone had any thoughts or experience with a lynx? I've been keeping track of this thread, mostly, but haven't seen it mentioned much, and so far there isn't a summary on the webway page.

I've got one sat on the shelf that hasn't seen the tabletop yet but I'm thinking of converting the pulsar to a sonic Lance. I feel like I've got other stuff that can do what the pulsar does much more efficiently, but the sonic Lance can potentially remove a unit a turn, and also thin those hordes down.

I do tend to face a lot of lascannons though, so it could just as easily turn into a 400pt lump.

Honestly, for the points it seems fragile and undergunned. The Lynx Pulsar is worse in every way compared to the Fire Prism. Lance is better but its still just (on average) about 10x 1 damage hits at relatively short range.

You should be able to protect it somewhat by stacking -1 to hit modifiers. Definitely needs vectored engines and Alaitoc, and possibly a liberal helping of the 'Lightning reflexes' stratagem if the enemy gets a crack at it turn 1. I just don't see it surviving long enough to ever earn its points back in kills, or weather enough enemy fire to be a decent distraction carnifex.

Yeh I was worried about the fragility too, 16w on a 400pt model just isn't enough sadly.

We don't play super competitive though so I'm still going to try it out, and I'll probably be using alaitoc to give it a bit more protection.

I still think the sonic Lance will do some damage though, 18“ range isn't too bad, and 3d6 auto hits that wound any infantry on 2+, with ap-3 will hurt, and that's without any psychic support.

Plus, like the hemlock, it's at full firepower even when down to 1 wound, just a shame it only has 16 of them.

 Trashpanda wrote:
Yeh I was worried about the fragility too, 16w on a 400pt model just isn't enough

Plus, like the hemlock, it's at full firepower even when down to 1 wound, just a shame it only has 16 of them.

this don't make it much better, however, a spiritstone upgrade will give it 2.67 additional wounds on average

Sonic Lance would definitely be the way to go with the Lynx. It can fulfill the ''leaping character sniper'' role better than the Hemlock, provided someone leaves a giant gaping hole. The Overwatch is pretty nasty and it does great damage vs most infantry.

Spirit Stones will actually average another 3+ wounds on top of your 16, since the ones its saved before get to save again. I'd avoid Vectored Engines, since you don't really want to Advance and lose a round of shooting with such a pricey investment.

Goobi2 wrote:
Sonic Lance would definitely be the way to go with the Lynx. It can fulfill the ''leaping character sniper'' role better than the Hemlock, provided someone leaves a giant gaping hole. The Overwatch is pretty nasty and it does great damage vs most infantry.

Spirit Stones will actually average another 3+ wounds on top of your 16, since the ones its saved before get to save again. I'd avoid Vectored Engines, since you don't really want to Advance and lose a round of shooting with such a pricey investment.

Looking back at FW units i noticed the Phoenix can be a decent addition too for the same cost as a Hemlock it can sport a decent weapons combo. The built in Crystal matrix allow it to perform quite well with proper colocation and can bring decent Anti horde firepower.

did someone tested it already on the battlefield?

Can't agree that Spectres don't have good targets for their beam. If your army is all Hemlocks, Spears, and Reapers then they have no place. Otherwise they are solid, versatile units.

The only problem with the Phoenix is that it's only hitting on a 4+ starting off. So even with its fairly impressive (by Eldar standards) 17 shot average when kitted for infantry, only 8-9 should hit and most of those lack any significant punch.

Goobi2 wrote:
The only problem with the Phoenix is that it's only hitting on a 4+ starting off. So even with its fairly impressive (by Eldar standards) 17 shot average when kitted for infantry, only 8-9 should hit and most of those lack any significant punch.

Well it has a Crystal matrix built in ( no penalty firing heavy weapons vs closest targets) hence why i said it may perform fine vs hordes with proper colocation, the punch it's pretty similar to a tempest launcher (albeit with a -1 instead -2) but since the main idea is vs hordes (Guardsmen, orks,gants ) who already should had crappy armor saves i tought it may work. Hence why i'm asking if someone already bothered to play one instead or just use raw Mathhammer to value it.

Fair point, I did forget the CTM. Though with some decent weapon ranges, its a pity movement will dictate its targetting priority. That said it's firepower warrants a look, so I'll try one out this week. At the very least, it is the most durable of all our non-super-heavy flyers.

Special mention goes to the Vampire Hunter. Post FAQ it was arguably a much better Scorpion. Post Chapter Approved, running it will be an uphill battle.

xmbk wrote:
Can't agree that Spectres don't have good targets for their beam. If your army is all Hemlocks, Spears, and Reapers then they have no place. Otherwise they are solid, versatile units.

This a little bit is like saying if you don't have any bright lances warp spiders are good anti tank. THe spectres don't have good targets in that no matter what your shooting at some one always does it better, and if your looking at a versitile shooter shining spears and dark repears are better.

Theres no role that they serve that you can't get better some where else. They are redundant in that way i guess you could say. Which is disappointing, but with warp spiders also existing i can't think of a niche the spectres could take up that would make them unique in an eldar force.

Good evening Eldar players,

I'm mainly a marine player but I wanted to look for another army and I'm willing to start a 1000 points eldar army (later will become 2000). I already have the codex but I really don't know where to start. For sure the alatoic trait is interesting but I'm actually in love with wraithguard models and I was wondering if you guys could give me some suggestions how to build a list around these.

Many thanks,

Christian

Spado wrote:
Good evening Eldar players,

I'm mainly a marine player but I wanted to look for another army and I'm willing to start a 1000 points eldar army (later will become 2000). I already have the codex but I really don't know where to start. For sure the alatoic trait is interesting but I'm actually in love with wraithguard models and I was wondering if you guys could give me some suggestions how to build a list around these.

Many thanks,

Christian

The meat and potatoes of lyanden is a Wratih bomb where you web-way in some wraith blades,. Quicken then, use the iyanden stratagem and relic, and what ever they were in front of disappear. From there iyanden doesn't do much other than really help out your crimson hunters and wraith knight form decaying. So if you do use lyanden usualy you use another craft world to accompany them. Biel-tan could be good if you spent a command point to throw a relic onto you warlock to allow them to reroll thier quicken spell, but now you are droping a command point for that which makes it a little meh, as you already have the iyanden relic.

So other than that your best comboing iwth some alaitoc support. Rangers would be nice to keep space for your wraith bomb.

mmimzie wrote:

xmbk wrote:
Can't agree that Spectres don't have good targets for their beam. If your army is all Hemlocks, Spears, and Reapers then they have no place. Otherwise they are solid, versatile units.

This a little bit is like saying if you don't have any bright lances warp spiders are good anti tank. THe spectres don't have good targets in that no matter what your shooting at some one always does it better, and if your looking at a versitile shooter shining spears and dark repears are better.

Theres no role that they serve that you can't get better some where else. They are redundant in that way i guess you could say. Which is disappointing, but with warp spiders also existing i can't think of a niche the spectres could take up that would make them unique in an eldar force.

Again, if you only field Reapers, Spears, and Hemlocks, you are correct. But if you want a 4th unit, Spears are good and versatile. Disparage them only if you want to disparage the entire rest of the codex. It's certainly an oversimplification to say that Reapers and Spears do everything better.

Or you could take more reapers. Or spears. Because spears do everything Spectres do (and more), cost less, and are more durable.

Spectres are bad units.

If you have roughly 180 points to spare. You have a gunline with not too many bodies.

What could you do with those points to beef up a gunline?

That's 6 whole Reapers right there (not to be pedantic either, that's really just the best option).

 admironheart wrote:
If you have roughly 180 points to spare. You have a gunline with not too many bodies.

What could you do with those points to beef up a gunline?

3 squads of 5 Rangers to screen your gunline from Deep Strikers and opportunistic assaulters. With Blood Angels and Nids leading the way in fast moving armies, you may find your opponent's getting close faster than they did in Index days. Pop them in cover and they are OK vs shooting,have ObjSec and might even get the occasional Mortal Wound if the dice favour you.

 Karhedron wrote:

 admironheart wrote:
If you have roughly 180 points to spare. You have a gunline with not too many bodies.

What could you do with those points to beef up a gunline?

3 squads of 5 Rangers to screen your gunline from Deep Strikers and opportunistic assaulters. With Blood Angels and Nids leading the way in fast moving armies, you may find your opponent's getting close faster than they did in Index days. Pop them in cover and they are OK vs shooting,have ObjSec and might even get the occasional Mortal Wound if the dice favour you.

As i like to keep my army well clumped together. i'd flank the gunline with fliers that you'd likely already have, or your wave serpents, and then just take one such squad of rangers. Save other other 120 points for whatever. That many rangers start to feel pretty bad in my opinion. If your doing a tournament and you go against space marines scounts you just wanted 180 points of rangers. Are none deep striking forces against 180 wasted points, while 1 squad of rangers can already have a nice big impact. Even more so when there isn't really much reason to spread your army accross the table in eldar, when we have so many awesome fast options like swooping hawks.

Are Vypers ever really viable?

I mean we can webway them or cloudstrike to give them some protection.

even if you go Saim-Hann....what weapon loadout is best.

Seems if you go all shuriken cannons then you spend 210 points on a 24" range and not as durable as Wave Serpents x2 for not much difference.

If you go with a bigger gun like EML or Bright Lance or even Scatter laser then you want to make use of most the 36"+ range and so you may as well take the useless twin shuriken catapults. But then your rate of fire drops down compared to a War Walker.

How do you use Vypers.....if you had to?

 admironheart wrote:
Are Vypers ever really viable?

I mean we can webway them or cloudstrike to give them some protection.

even if you go Saim-Hann....what weapon loadout is best.

Seems if you go all shuriken cannons then you spend 210 points on a 24" range and not as durable as Wave Serpents x2 for not much difference.

If you go with a bigger gun like EML or Bright Lance or even Scatter laser then you want to make use of most the 36"+ range and so you may as well take the useless twin shuriken catapults. But then your rate of fire drops down compared to a War Walker.

How do you use Vypers.....if you had to?

the best use for vypers are they are durable and can be in squads of three w/ shurikan cannons, or shurickan cannons and scatter). This allows you to have a big unit that can be an alternate target for forwarning. against units like scions. For the csot you can get 8 Dark reapers which can do about the same damage to said squad of scions, which i think puts the vypers on top here. The vypers with scatter will likely just kill a 10man scion squad on the drop. From there the vypers are more durable than said reapers. Wave serpents can't forwarn as well as vypers are a single squad. Other weapon options are just flat out, out matched by the crimson hunter exarch or hemlock.

Also my strat has been doing for a flying wing formation after turns 2 or 3. Where you are in clean up/ objective grabbing stages of the game. In such formations i usually run 2 wave serpents a hemlock and crimson hunter exarch. WIth a farseer, autrach, warlock skyrunner sandwitched between the two fliers, forcing my opponent to drop the fliers and serpents before they can claim sudden death. In such a formation the vypers could also hand out decently well keeping pace with the speedy fliers, and blocking chargers from getting between your two jets.

3x1 in Brigade as something tougher than Hawks to do mael/objectives maybe.

As I’m running a “small” Saim-Hann outrider detachment, I tend to prefer my 2 vyper squad to have starcannons. At 150 points, the unit can put out a decent amount of fire power, without worrying about the penalty for moving and shooting. It’s a nice little bonus which supplements the rest of my army. As it stands, they can provide a fair amount of threat/point scoring, whilst not being one of the first turn targets like Hemlocks etc are.

I personally don’t think I’d ever run Vypers as single model units in a competitive/itc standing as they would then just be “easy” points. I also think running with the AML or Bright Lance just makes them way more of a target early on as well (along with substantially more expensive when looking at a unit).

As for Rangers – sure, if you come up against SM Scouts it can be a massive pain, but I’ll still take 3 units rather than 1. Simply because they are cheap obsec and CP. Not to mention, they can be a pain to remove and having 15 sniper shots does start to chip away at wounds/models.

3 units also provides a nice amount of screening, for all those times when you aren’t up against 3+ units of SM Scouts.

So I want to include a in your face unit beside shining spears. I am looking at wraithguard/blades.

Curious what you guys feel is best coming out of webway:
5 with guns
5 with blades
5 with axes/shields

I feel like the guns are just better with the fists still giving a modifier to armour but havent had a chance to test them out and just bought 10 of them.

Thanks.


Also struggling with Striking Scorpions they seem REALLY underwhelming.

Anyone try 40-50 Dire Avengers with Asurmen?

Incognito15 wrote:
So I want to include a in your face unit beside shining spears. I am looking at wraithguard/blades.

Curious what you guys feel is best coming out of webway:
5 with guns
5 with blades
5 with axes/shields

I feel like the guns are just better with the fists still giving a modifier to armour but havent had a chance to test them out and just bought 10 of them.

Thanks.


Also struggling with Striking Scorpions they seem REALLY underwhelming.

Anyone try 40-50 Dire Avengers with Asurmen?

from personal experience, axes with quicken/protect will do some serious work without taking much of a beating, even more so with fortune. I'd save them for turn 2 surprise charges though after your opponent has maneuvered or you've cleared chaff. Used this tactic to take out a levi-dread last weekend.

WindstormSCR wrote:

Incognito15 wrote:
So I want to include a in your face unit beside shining spears. I am looking at wraithguard/blades.

Curious what you guys feel is best coming out of webway:
5 with guns
5 with blades
5 with axes/shields

I feel like the guns are just better with the fists still giving a modifier to armour but havent had a chance to test them out and just bought 10 of them.

Thanks.


Also struggling with Striking Scorpions they seem REALLY underwhelming.

Anyone try 40-50 Dire Avengers with Asurmen?

from personal experience, axes with quicken/protect will do some serious work without taking much of a beating, even more so with fortune. I'd save them for turn 2 surprise charges though after your opponent has maneuvered or you've cleared chaff. Used this tactic to take out a levi-dread last weekend.

I too prefer axes and shields, but, a big part of that also comes from me thinking the models look awesome

As for DA - not tried a large force of them, but i like running a couple of units. Not sure about Asurman myself though, seems kinda expensive.

Good day folks, I'm in need of some assistance as i'm at a bit of a planning impasse.

I'm trying to fully finalize the heart of my force with the objective to make it as lean and efficient as possible while also keeping to how I want it to be according to fluff. At it's heart i'm wanting to base the core off the Aeldari Battlehost information page 13 of the codex - to that aim this core must consist of 30 Guardians (1st-3rd Squad) and then at least one full support squad and i'm wanting the force to be mechanized.

My starting point is the support squad, which I want setup as 3 Vyper Jetbikes and 2 Wave Serpents (Going to model with Fire Prism turrets so these are manned). From there it's easy to throw Guardian squads into the Wave Serpents and then add 10 Windriders. This would broadly split into two detachments, one Outrider with the Windriders and Vypers while the other has the Guardian Squads - that's where my planning impasse comes in.

2 Guardian Squads puts me one troops choice away from a Batallion and i'd quite like the CP from that, however my choices in that slot seem rather poor.

- Rangers would serve no purpose as the whole force being mechanised can fly so i'm not too worried about needing screens
- Dire Avengers only add more shuriken fire which starts becoming overkill, then they also need transport which bloats the core
- More guardians blows the 30 Guardian count.

With that I see two options, it would be great to get some more views and see if I have more options than I realise.

Option 1

Drop the windriders, stick 20 guardians in the webway, 10 in a serpent and put some Dire Avengers in the other serpent. The Shuriken volume nets out the same but my durability and mobility are worse and the guardian blob will have morale problems compared to windriders, plus it hard-commits some of the CP, something which i'd rather avoid

Option 2

Miss out on being a "craftworlds" detachment and add a Harlequin Troupe, possibly with Shadowseer. I'd get my CP and keep the intent of the force but if i'm assessing this option correctly I believe i lose out on objective secured from my Guardian Squads as well as any Craftworld trait. This feels like something I could live with, especially since any Harlequins keep Rising Crescendo, but could be a pain to be explaining to opponents.

Does anyone have any advice or see some other options?

Cheers

Don't count the Guardians on jetbikes towards the 30-man limit?

It seems a bit arbitrary to me. IMO you definitely want a Battalion for the CPs as we have plenty of decent stratagems in our codex. I prefer Dire Avengers to guardians in practice as I find the extra range and better armour makes them a lot more durable. Guardians either end up baby-sitting a heavy weapon platform in the backfield which is not very efficient or acting as a shurican-bomb which is not very fluffy for a dying race.

If mechanization is your key factor then Avengers are the obvious choice.

Lithanial,

A couple things. I assume this is a 2k list? or perhaps smaller.

even with a mechanized list you can still get charged or alpha striked. I know you did not want screeners but think of these options.

Put the 3 vypers in the webway as 1 unit. They are then safe.
or
Put 20 guardians in the webway and 10 in a serpent and then Dire Avengers or any other aspect you want in the 2nd.

3rd since you don't have screeners and you may get alpha striked....think about using your jetbikes as a screen. Then if you spread them out to the very farthest....an opponent will have to keep his unit in coherency and a jetbike 2" away from another jetbike ...all end pointing toward end makes for the longest deployment you can get. If some get shot or assaulted....you just kill the ones where you don't need them and use fly keyword to move off on your turn.

Remember you don't have to consolidate at all with any unit in hth. It is very easy to kill off your models in base to base so that you are left outside the 1" range after his pile in. So even if a unit does not have fly, it doesn't begin in hth...so can move normally.

you also could do 2 five/six model units of Dire Avengers and put them in the 2nd serpent to fulfil your troop tax.

just some thoughts.

Did you decide on a craftworld trait?