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Spartacus wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:


3) I normally take an Autarch on jetbike as my Warlord for the Path of Command to help regenerate CPs. He is fast enough to move about and buff whichever units need help and with a laser lance, he packs enough punch in CC to deal with small units on his own. I normally run him with the Shimmerplume helm as -1 to hit helps deter shooting and the "Eye on Distant events" Trait so that enemies cannot fire overwatch at him. I normally back him up with a Farseer. Mine is on foot but a jetbike is better. Doom is so good as to be almost mandatory in Eldar lists and your second power can be whatever you choose. I sometimes run a Spiritseer as a cheap 3rd HQ as several of the Runes of Battle powers are quite nice (Protect/Jinx is a favourite of mine). He is only 10 points more than a Warlock, has twice the number of wounds, gets Smite instead of Destructor and can buff your Wraith units.

No need to take the 'Eye on Distant Events' WT for your Autarch, a Banshee Mask does the same thing for free!

What WL trait would be best on the Autarch in that case? Fate's Messenger for the +1 W and 6+++? Seems like it would be pretty useful to stack durability with the -1 to hit from the Shimmerplume especially if you're charging your WL up with Shining Spears to get in CC.

Mr. Funktastic wrote:

Spartacus wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:


3) I normally take an Autarch on jetbike as my Warlord for the Path of Command to help regenerate CPs. He is fast enough to move about and buff whichever units need help and with a laser lance, he packs enough punch in CC to deal with small units on his own. I normally run him with the Shimmerplume helm as -1 to hit helps deter shooting and the "Eye on Distant events" Trait so that enemies cannot fire overwatch at him. I normally back him up with a Farseer. Mine is on foot but a jetbike is better. Doom is so good as to be almost mandatory in Eldar lists and your second power can be whatever you choose. I sometimes run a Spiritseer as a cheap 3rd HQ as several of the Runes of Battle powers are quite nice (Protect/Jinx is a favourite of mine). He is only 10 points more than a Warlock, has twice the number of wounds, gets Smite instead of Destructor and can buff your Wraith units.

No need to take the 'Eye on Distant Events' WT for your Autarch, a Banshee Mask does the same thing for free!

What WL trait would be best on the Autarch in that case? Fate's Messenger for the +1 W and 6+++? Seems like it would be pretty useful to stack durability with the -1 to hit from the Shimmerplume especially if you're charging your WL up with Shining Spears to get in CC.

I've always used Mark of incomparable Hunter. If youre on a Jetbike, youll have a Laser Lance, take also either a Reaper Launcher or a Fusion Gun. When in range your Autarch can then nuke enemy characters with 4 Shuriken Catapult shots, a blast from the laser lance as well as a Fusion Gun shot or Reaper missiles, should do some serious damage. My personal preference is the Reaper Launcher for extra range. Killing off characters who rely on sitting behind screens of infantry is often suprisingly easy with that kind of firepower.

On the other hand the Autarch is a buff character, so you take a bubble of Fearless (If Alaitoc), or a buff to shooting (If Biel-Tan). Aside from maybe the Biel-Tan one, none of the traits are hugely better than the others, so its not a huge deal. Just use something you think you will enjoy and make use of.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Hey, so I've been in pretty much all the tactica threads now, as I've been flipping between armies, struggling to find the one for me. I though maybe Genestealer Cults suited, but after reading their fluff I don't want anything to do with them haha. I think Eldar might suit instead, as I like speed.

A couple of questions:

1) Are Wraithguard and Wraithlords good? They're my favourite models of the Eldar range
2) Are Dire Avengers good? I much prefer their models to guardians
3) I have no idea where to start with leaders
4) Any tips or general ideas on which units are affective and which I should just stay away from?

Thanks in advance everyone. I've been struggling for a month now to settle on an army :/

Not had much experience with Wraithlords for a long time, but they can provide a tough heavy weapons platform if you need them, or go in the opposite direction and run up the table with nothing but catapults and a sword.

Wraithguard are definitely very good, but, I don’t tend to find space for them in my lists. They can be very expensive and support heavy. I do love the Axe and Shield Blades though.

I like Dire Avengers as well, but I feel they have a different role to Guardians these days. For me, Avengers are more “back line, objective holding, support units”, using their extra range and armour save to benefit from sitting in cover. Guardians for me, tend to revolve around 20 man squads jumping out of the webway and killing a couple of units first turn, before hoping you can then keep them alive to then do something else with them.

A Skyrunner Autarch is always a good place to start for the buffs and abilities, alongside a Farseer of some kind. Eldar powers are really good, so also having a couple of Warlocks or Spiritseers is nice as well. I’d tend to stay away from the Phoenix Lords, Special Characters and Avatar initially, as you need to build your list (or at least a decent part of it) around them. This can lead to you being very one dimensional. There are options though.

Rangers are nice units as they are cheap, obsec, gain a 3+ save in cover, provide a deep strike denial bubble and have sniper rifles. However, you need to be careful if going up against Space Marine Scouts, or other units that deploy/scout move at the same time due to how the sequencing works.
Shining Spears are very good shock units, Dark Reapers, people are currently selling their children to get more (though I don’t include any personally), Hemlock Wraithfighters are also very good units, and of course, the Wave Serpent is an age old favorite. The only thing I can really think to “warn” against, is Falcon’s, Night Spinners and maybe the Wraithknight. The Knight is currently vastly overpriced for a lot of people, and can often die in one turn due to people being able to deal with them a lot easier in 8th.

Thank you guys so much for all the really helpful guidance, though I have a few more questions:

My friend heard I was getting into Eldar and grabbed me a box of Windriders. Are they any good?

What sort of weapons should I put on units and which should I stay away from? Stuff like bright lances and suncannons and shurikan cannons and such - are there clear winners over others?

Also, I'm seeing heaps of anti-vehicle/elite but what's best for volume of shots/horde killing?

I'm really happy that the Fire Prisom is good, as it's one of my favourite models, pretty much all of their vehicles are to be honest.
Thanks again everyone for such good advice; this is why I like Dakka so much

EDIT: Is it worth taking the Heavy Weapon Platforms in Guardian squads? Just noticed they can. Sort of reminds me of guardsmen

Windriders - with Alaitoc/Ulthwe & Shuriken cannons are OK, but be sure to kill enemy in range. Do not allow enemy to rapid fire back on your bikes. Do now allow enemy to charge your bikes with strong hand to hand units. Take in squads of 3-4 models. Learn a Mind Trick in real life and tell opponent that there are no bikes here.

Scatter laser - only good on min units of windriders to do mael/objectives far away.
Shuriken cannon - take everywhere else.
AML - stay away.
Bright lance - your basic anti-vehicle gun. Good for what it is, but there are few platforms it's good on. I ended up putting them on Wave Serpents turning them into fat eldar razorbacks.
Starcannon - good for what it is - killing W2 models - but I personally never find a place where to put it and just take more Lances instead. Guardian units can be good one, since it's just +5 pts and Guardians already have their catapults against everything else.

Swooping Hawks are neat at killing T3 trash. A minimal squad gives you 20 shots as far as '24 away. Shuriken catapults/cannons. I also like minimal squads of Banshees. A squad of 5 generally overwhelms ~8 cheaper models with heavy gun sitting and shooting, while clearing overwatch for your other units. Just don't charge orks.

Is it worth taking the Heavy Weapon Platforms in Guardian squads?

A matter of taste, and a situational upgrade. Basically, if you're just camping objective and shooting single heavy gun, you're wasting one of most cost effective drilling units in the codex. But, if you're within '12 of the enemy, it may be your guardian's last turn this day. Against shooting armies platform provides obvious protective benefit of extra 2 wounds in a 3+ save. But melee would just stomp you unless you get very lucky overwatch. Having a long range gun is good when you just use Guardians to camp somewhere or screen against stuff. But it's not that useful if you just want to unload them in masse from transports or webway.

So in the end, I think it's a matter of personal playing style.

 Shadenuat wrote:
Windriders - with Alaitoc/Ulthwe & Shuriken cannons are OK, but be sure to kill enemy in range. Do not allow enemy to rapid fire back on your bikes. Do now allow enemy to charge your bikes with strong hand to hand units. Take in squads of 3-4 models. Learn a Mind Trick in real life and tell opponent that there are no bikes here.

Scatter laser - only good on min units of windriders to do mael/objectives far away.
Shuriken cannon - take everywhere else.
AML - stay away.
Bright lance - your basic anti-vehicle gun. Good for what it is, but there are few platforms it's good on. I ended up putting them on Wave Serpents turning them into fat eldar razorbacks.
Starcannon - good for what it is - killing W2 models - but I personally never find a place where to put it and just take more Lances instead. Guardian units can be good one, since it's just +5 pts and Guardians already have their catapults against everything else.

Swooping Hawks are neat at killing T3 trash. A minimal squad gives you 20 shots as far as '24 away. Shuriken catapults/cannons. I also like minimal squads of Banshees. A squad of 5 generally overwhelms ~8 cheaper models with heavy gun sitting and shooting, while clearing overwatch for your other units. Just don't charge orks.

Is it worth taking the Heavy Weapon Platforms in Guardian squads?

A matter of taste, and a situational upgrade. Basically, if you're just camping objective and shooting single heavy gun, you're wasting one of most cost effective drilling units in the codex. But, if you're within '12 of the enemy, it may be your guardian's last turn this day. Against shooting armies platform provides obvious protective benefit of extra 2 wounds in a 3+ save. But melee would just stomp you unless you get very lucky overwatch. Having a long range gun is good when you just use Guardians to camp somewhere or screen against stuff. But it's not that useful if you just want to unload them in masse from transports or webway.

So in the end, I think it's a matter of personal playing style.

Thanks for the quick reply
I was thinking of going Biel-Tan for the re-rolling 1's for Shuriken weapons, and take a heap of Shuriken cannons and such, though I can see how Alaitoc is really good. And I'd expect I'd be using the Dire Avengers for objective capping and large blobs of Guardians to rush around and do heaps of shots, so sounds like the gun platforms aren't for me.

I'm thinking I'm going to build my Wraithlord for melee and have him accompanied by Wriathblades. The sword is an obvious choice for the Wraithlord and the axes/shields seem the best for the Wriathblades, but what guns should I chuck on the lord? Shuriken catapults I'd assume over flamers, but would shuriken cannons also be good to chuck on him, so he has some range capability too?

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Thank you guys so much for all the really helpful guidance, though I have a few more questions:

My friend heard I was getting into Eldar and grabbed me a box of Windriders. Are they any good?

What sort of weapons should I put on units and which should I stay away from? Stuff like bright lances and suncannons and shurikan cannons and such - are there clear winners over others?

Also, I'm seeing heaps of anti-vehicle/elite but what's best for volume of shots/horde killing?

I'm really happy that the Fire Prisom is good, as it's one of my favourite models, pretty much all of their vehicles are to be honest.
Thanks again everyone for such good advice; this is why I like Dakka so much

EDIT: Is it worth taking the Heavy Weapon Platforms in Guardian squads? Just noticed they can. Sort of reminds me of guardsmen

Windriders are in a strange place right now, in a lot of people’s eyes. In 7th, they were fantastic, but now, you could argue that you can get the same done with other units.
Personally, I’d only every take Scatter Lasers on the Windriders, if I was running them as Saim-Hann. This is simply because you always want to be moving around with them for protection and objective scoring. Every other time, I’d prob just got Shuriken Cannons as they are assault, str 6 (same as Laser) and also get a good rend on a 6+ to wound. Shuriken Catapults are ok, but they aren’t that much cheaper, and generally you don’t want your Windriders within 12” of the enemy.

As for heavy weapons, I like the Star Cannon most of all if I’m honest. Bright Lances are ok, and are pretty good, but, you’ll generally want them on platforms that aren’t going to be moving or have a 2+ to hit. Str 8 -4 D6 is nice, but at only 1 shot and then hitting on a 4+ after moving isn’t fantastic. Again though, Saim-Hann Vypers keep the 3+ to hit, but, you’d then need to take multiple of them to ensure decent damage output. The best platform for Bright Lances, in my mind, is the Crimson Hunters/Exarch.

Shuriken Cannons, are pretty much the go to weapon and are cheap enough to spam.
Missile Launchers generally don’t get used, due to their cost, and the Bright Lance being cheaper.

Stationary War Walker units can be fantastic fire support bases as well, but, the cost can start to add up pretty quickly.

Guardian Heavy Weapon Platforms are great. Not only do they provide an extra source of high firepower if you need it, it can also help keep the Guardian squad alive longer by tanking the wounds for the Guardians.

Horde killing depends on a lot of things, but, for example, a 190 point squad of Guardians can, on average, kill 20 GEQ on the turn they arrive from the webway. (Yes, yes, it’s not “cost effective” as such, before people say it, but, it is effective at killing the units.)
A Squad of 3 Shuriken Cannon Windriders will put out 9 str 6 shots a turn, Shining Spear units can dish out a lot of damage with their twin-catapults when taken in big numbers.
Wave Serpents, are fantastic as well. Beefy platform and with 3 Cannons, can put out the same amount of shots as 3 Windriders.
Hawks, are, ok, but, I wouldn’t rely on them killing a unit every turn.
Shadow Spectres, from Forgeworld, are still pretty decent at horde clearing as well. They got a points increase in Chapter Approved, but, they are still some fantastic models and can put out the damage with their flamer weapons.
Final option is the most expensive of all, but a big unit of D-Scythe Wraithguard will melt whatever they shoot their flamers at… You just have to get them there first

The sword is an obvious choice for the Wraithlord and the axes/shields seem the best for the Wriathblades, but what guns should I chuck on the lord?

I am for long range weapons for Lord. Yeah, yeah, you hit on 4s, but hitting on 4s is better than crawling after a lascannon shot for multiple turns into enemy deploy to do anything.

IMO, there is no reason to take Scatters on Windriders, even if they are Saim-hann. Windriders are one of the few units that actually benefit from Battle Focus, which does nothing for Scatters.
Shuricannon bikes, otoh, can advance a full 6" and shoot without penalty. This effectively gives both weapons a similar range.

The Shuricannon also benefits more from Doom for that sweet AP -3.
Even without Doom, Shuricannons put out about as much damage against all other units than Scatters. 25% more shots means nothing when the enemy still gets full amour saves (possibly with cover). The chance to roll 6's for the Shuricannon make them a much more viable choice than the Scatter laser.

The only exception would be units that rely on invuls, which is mostly just Daemons. Having Hemlocks can Jinx tends to fix them though.

-

This effectively gives both weapons a similar range.

Threat range. While giving enemy better range to engage and kill bikes.

 Shadenuat wrote:

This effectively gives both weapons a similar range.

Threat range. While giving enemy better range to engage and kill bikes.

True, but if you are moving into range with the Shuricannons and you cannot effectively remove all threats within 18-24" of them (with them or with help from other units), you shouldn't move to that position in the first place.
No doubt Shuricannons take more skill to use, but as long as you have that skill, Shuricannons are the clear best choice.

-

Spartacus wrote:
No need to take the 'Eye on Distant Events' WT for your Autarch, a Banshee Mask does the same thing for free!

I am playing a Codex autarch. If you feel comfortable taking Index options then by all means, pick a better Warlord trait. +1 Wound and 6+++ is quite nice.

Wait... Codex doesn't have masks for Autarchs? Really? Holy crap, I always just assumed that was a thing.

You can use the Index Autarch's wargear options and the Codex Autarch's rules. There's no reason to limit yourself to only the Codex Autarch's wargear options.

Just a quick thought. Looking for some anti infantry in my list. Not anti guardsmen as my Guardians have that covered but anti 2+/3+ infantry.

Looking over the book would you say that Fire Prisms fill that void?

Shining Spears and Bikes are similar in a dmg/pt ratio I find. Plus it leaves them dangerously close.

Warp Spiders are okay but nothing crazy and War Walkers are okay too.

Wave Serpents I like but are similar in dmg output to Fire Prisms.

Fire Prisms also give us even more durability.

Am i crazy?

Im running a list with a Crimson Hunter and Drukhari Ravagers so dont need the anti tank but I love the versatility and survivability.

Incognito15 wrote:
Just a quick thought. Looking for some anti infantry in my list. Not anti guardsmen as my Guardians have that covered but anti 2+/3+ infantry.

Looking over the book would you say that Fire Prisms fill that void?

Fire Prism's are fine general purpose tools. Our main anti heavy infantry weapon is really Star Cannons as they both get through the armour and also do multiple wounds which is important for dealing with bikes/primaris etc.

If you’re only taking squads of 5 models, then the Hemlock certainly has the ability to wipe a unit a turn. Reliable, if not the cheapest way to do it.

Likewise, Fire Dragons can do the damage as well, whilst also providing a solid threat to vehicles. Again, expensive though.

Star Cannons are probably the best option though. 2 shots, Str 6, -3, D3 dmg. It then becomes your choice of desired platform. A Crimson Hunter Exarch could do this if you didn’t need the Bright Lances.

Alternatively, you could run Star Cannon Wave Serpents, and spam their MW output

I like Wraithguard with D-scythes for dealing with 2+/3+ infantry. The can reliably delete a 10-man Tac squad or 5 Primaris Marines with a single volley and are almost as good vs tanks/MCs too (unlike Starcannons which struggle to wound big targets with S6). They need a Wave Serpent to carry them but that is not a big hardship as it is one of the best Transports in the game.

Incognito15 wrote:


Im running a list with a Crimson Hunter and Drukhari Ravagers so dont need the anti tank but I love the versatility and survivability.

If you're already running ravagers, why not use some disintegrators? They reliably kill terminators, bikers and primaris, and fire a shot more than a starcannon.

I'm assuming "ravagers" means two. You could add a third one and give each of them two lances and a disintegrator. This way you'd only lose two lances when a ravager dies, and you'd also only lose one disintegrator.

My shadow specters have no trouble killing heavy infantry, particularly with guide, and can be quite resilient as well.

 Trashpanda wrote:
My shadow specters have no trouble killing heavy infantry, particularly with guide, and can be quite resilient as well.

They have no trouble killing heavy infantry (then again, not a lot does this edition), but once you start to factor in that point cost, things become a lot more prohibitive for the poor spectres.

My answer for anti-elite infantry is indeed Fire prisms and Hemlocks. Also don't underestimate a Doom + Jink combo with a ton of shuriken shots. Should take out Marines as if they were guardsmen.

 Fafnir wrote:

 Trashpanda wrote:
My shadow specters have no trouble killing heavy infantry, particularly with guide, and can be quite resilient as well.

They have no trouble killing heavy infantry (then again, not a lot does this edition), but once you start to factor in that point cost, things become a lot more prohibitive for the poor spectres.

Oh yeah they are a little expensive, in terms of cost per model they are up there with reapers. But I like their speed, assault weapons mean no penalty for moving, - 1 to hit, potential - 2 if you go alaitoc, plus 3+ save and flamer mode for overwatch makes them difficult to take down. Add in guide and they can generate a huge amount of shots, they always seem to pull their weight for me.

 Galef wrote:
My answer for anti-elite infantry is indeed Fire prisms and Hemlocks. Also don't underestimate a Doom + Jink combo with a ton of shuriken shots. Should take out Marines as if they were guardsmen.

my answer to everything is shining spears.

 Trashpanda wrote:


Oh yeah they are a little expensive, in terms of cost per model they are up there with reapers. But I like their speed, assault weapons mean no penalty for moving, - 1 to hit, potential - 2 if you go alaitoc, plus 3+ save and flamer mode for overwatch makes them difficult to take down. Add in guide and they can generate a huge amount of shots, they always seem to pull their weight for me.

Not sure if you are aware....but right now you are the choir preaching to the priest. Fafnir has been the biggest advocate of Spectres this edition. Since the price hike he has been a bit salty when they are mentioned. Probably don't stoke the fire on that one : )))))

Guy's not wrong.

Simply put, it doesn't matter what you can get your Spectres to do at their current price point. There is always going to be another unit in the book that does it more effectively.

Are you people forgetting Dark Reapers?
Basically designed to murder heavy infantry?

Maybe they were mentioned and I didn't notice, but It felt really weird to not see them in this conversation.

 DanielFM wrote:
Are you people forgetting Dark Reapers?
Basically designed to murder heavy infantry?

Maybe they were mentioned and I didn't notice, but It felt really weird to not see them in this conversation.

Theyve been discussed to death. Im sure everyone just took for granted that they would be mentioned.

 Galef wrote:
My answer for anti-elite infantry is indeed Fire prisms and Hemlocks. Also don't underestimate a Doom + Jink combo with a ton of shuriken shots. Should take out Marines as if they were guardsmen.

As we all know, Dark Reapers excel in this role.
I won't take Fire Prisms. I used them in previous editions and had mostly bad luck with them, and Hemlock have no ground control.

So is everyone on the same page concerning Index vs Codex?

I have seen several posts since the release of the Eldar Codex stating that if you use the Path of Command from the index you don't get the updated expanded rules from the Codex version.

It seems to me and so far everyone in the rules section that if you take a warp jump Autarch that you DO indeed get to use the newer rules and the Banshee masks work like the Codex version and not the index version.

Is there any controversy on this?