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Ravemastaj wrote:
Every unit has an "I ignore this rule" clause somewhere in it's individual rules.

This is true of Marines and just about every other unit that exists in 40K.

But in general, Eldar have always been different, that's their schtick.

 Karhedron wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
You may also need to get the codex to see how weak it is then. Because it isn't as good as almost every other codex.

Seriously? I have only lost one game since the codex dropped and that was because I played badly and ignored the objectives until too late in the game. Craftworlds are one of the stronger codices IMHO. Possibly not right up with the very strongest but definitely upper tier if not top tier.

Totally agree. Eldar are far from weak. If you take out Reapers, Eldar are about above averages. It's Reapers and adding powers and stratagems to Reapers that make CWE seem OP right now.

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 Galef wrote:

Ravemastaj wrote:
Every unit has an "I ignore this rule" clause somewhere in it's individual rules.

This is true of Marines and just about every other unit that exists in 40K.

But in general, Eldar have always been different, that's their schtick.

 Karhedron wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
You may also need to get the codex to see how weak it is then. Because it isn't as good as almost every other codex.

Seriously? I have only lost one game since the codex dropped and that was because I played badly and ignored the objectives until too late in the game. Craftworlds are one of the stronger codices IMHO. Possibly not right up with the very strongest but definitely upper tier if not top tier.

Totally agree. Eldar are far from weak. If you take out Reapers, Eldar are about above averages. It's Reapers and adding powers and stratagems to Reapers that make CWE seem OP right now.

-

I agree. Craftworlds are definitely up there in terms of power.

They do struggle against some armies though (as it should be for every army) but they have the ability to take on pretty much any competitive list in a close game.

 Karhedron wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
You may also need to get the codex to see how weak it is then. Because it isn't as good as almost every other codex.

Seriously? I have only lost one game since the codex dropped and that was because I played badly and ignored the objectives until too late in the game. Craftworlds are one of the stronger codices IMHO. Possibly not right up with the very strongest but definitely upper tier if not top tier.

Data does not support that. Congratulations on being better than your playgroup.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Data does not support that. Congratulations on being better than your playgroup.

What data are you referring to?

Just watched how Custodes play. The dice were really sick...but a 5 man unit had 2 left after 20 genestealers charged them with catalyst. I think 3 of the stealers were killed by other means and only 6 were left when game ended.

6 vs 2 and the stealers were probably dead. Custodes are tough!

Custodes really feel like mini raid bosses. I'm reconsidering starcannons, especially on WW or guardians

 DarknessEternal wrote:

You may also need to get the codex to see how weak it is then. Because it isn't as good as almost every other codex.

I am going to ignore your opinion, having lost 3 weeks in a row to combined Eldar lists. Admech is currently the weakest codex - having only one strategy (Dakkabots w/Cawl) is very detrimental to...well, having any fun. Rising Crescendo Harlequins + Dark Reapers + Invul Guardians + Dual shooting tanks + Forewarning + Psyker shenannigans (like moving TWICE) + Teleporting Yncarnne...the list goes on. If you can't make a synergistic list with any of that, you are playing Eldar wrong.

Yeah, Eldar are better than Admech. But their internal balance sucks compared to Nids and IG. Reapers and Hemlocks carry the codex, maybe Spears. Nids are the gold standard for internal balance, imo. Units and Hive fleets.

Eldar's internal balance is a bit wonky but this has been true for many editions and is partly due to the fact that the range is so old and big that it has many units in overlapping roles. Fire Dragons vs Wraithguard is a perfect example.

However Eldar do have plenty of strong units and plenty of viable builds. Alaitoc Reapers is common simply because it is an easy power build.

xmbk wrote:
Yeah, Eldar are better than Admech. But their internal balance sucks compared to Nids and IG. Reapers and Hemlocks carry the codex, maybe Spears. Nids are the gold standard for internal balance, imo. Units and Hive fleets.

Reapers and Hemlocks are good yes, but i'd def place Spears as a major carrying unit as well.

But, in addition to that, our psychic abilities is also a massive game changer for us alongside Guardian blobs. They can easily carry games. Wave Serpents are also pretty much an auto include, and a very good one at that. Crimson Hunter Exarchs are also an option, and one of the best units for anti-tank.

Other than that, i agree, the balance in-codex is a bit off. Vypers only worth it in Saim-Hann, Rangers can be hit or miss, but very good. Hawks, i want to be good, but str 3 shooting and combat with t3 and 4+ save makes them melt. Autarch is great on a bike, but is only really taken for the CP re-gain. Rest of the codex doesn't really get much of a look in - because why spend 60-250 points on 5 man unit when you can get more Spears or Reapers.

I love my Wraithguard (in Serpents of course). D-scythes in particular are great for frying stuff. If the enemy tries to charge you, just fry 'em again. If they are still dead just stroll out of combat and fry them a third time thanks to "Implacable". I always bring a couple of squads and they never disappoint.

It's a codex built on the back of three units. That makes it powerful, but in an unhealthy way.

I agree that the psychic phase is ours. Only the Tyranids and probably Chaos can compete. In everygame Ive played since the dex came out only 4 WeirdBoyz offered me a headache but a Nova Lance Skyrunner took them out in 1 round.

I usually get 75% of my DtW rolls with Will of Asuryan or Runes of Witnessing or Seer Council.

I usally get 2/3rds of my spells cast and only abut 1 in 4 are ever denied.

So an average round will get my Eldar 50% of their powers and my opponents get 1 or 2.

So why do WraithGuard get Implacable and the much larger Wraithlords do not???

Why don't the better armed WraithBlades get it too?

There seems no fluffy reason for it and is just tacked on because.

Dreadnoughts and Wraithlords and Carnifexes, etc should all just brush aside man sized foes and ignore them for movment

 admironheart wrote:
So why do WraithGuard get Implacable and the much larger Wraithlords do not???

Why don't the better armed WraithBlades get it too?

Why Wraithblades don't get implacable is easy - the rule wouldn't do anything for them. As for Wraithlords, probably because they're not as focussed only on shooting as the WG.

 Galef wrote:

 Gangrel767 wrote:
So RAW can we use Fire and Fade to get back into a vehicle we just disembarked from?

I don't think so, but I'm asking you, my fellow farseers.

No. Fire and Fade does indeed allow you to embark onto a vehicle, however it does not override the basic vehicle embark/disembark restriction that a Transport can only embark OR disembark per turn, never both.

-

Not necessarily. In the "Stepping Into a New Edition" FAQ it says:

Q: Can I embark within a transport at any time
other than in the Movement phase, such as following
a consolidate move that takes a unit within 3" of
a transport?
A: No. You may only embark within or disembark a
transport in the Movement phase, unless a rule or ability
explicitly says otherwise.

The Fire and Fade strat says 'move like the movement phase', but is not actually in that phase. At LVO a judge ruled I couldn't embark.

Coldsteel wrote:

 Galef wrote:

 Gangrel767 wrote:
So RAW can we use Fire and Fade to get back into a vehicle we just disembarked from?

I don't think so, but I'm asking you, my fellow farseers.

No. Fire and Fade does indeed allow you to embark onto a vehicle, however it does not override the basic vehicle embark/disembark restriction that a Transport can only embark OR disembark per turn, never both.

-

Not necessarily. In the "Stepping Into a New Edition" FAQ it says:

Q: Can I embark within a transport at any time
other than in the Movement phase, such as following
a consolidate move that takes a unit within 3" of
a transport?
A: No. You may only embark within or disembark a
transport in the Movement phase, unless a rule or ability
explicitly says otherwise.

The Fire and Fade strat says 'move like the movement phase', but is not actually in that phase. At LVO a judge ruled I couldn't embark.

I'd say that's an odd ruling. The ability specifically says "move like the movement phase". Interesting and good to know.

Coldsteel wrote:

 Galef wrote:

 Gangrel767 wrote:
So RAW can we use Fire and Fade to get back into a vehicle we just disembarked from?

I don't think so, but I'm asking you, my fellow farseers.

No. Fire and Fade does indeed allow you to embark onto a vehicle, however it does not override the basic vehicle embark/disembark restriction that a Transport can only embark OR disembark per turn, never both.

-

Not necessarily. In the "Stepping Into a New Edition" FAQ it says:

Q: Can I embark within a transport at any time
other than in the Movement phase, such as following
a consolidate move that takes a unit within 3" of
a transport?
A: No. You may only embark within or disembark a
transport in the Movement phase, unless a rule or ability
explicitly says otherwise.

The Fire and Fade strat says 'move like the movement phase', but is not actually in that phase. At LVO a judge ruled I couldn't embark.

The judge got that wrong for sure

 Cream Tea wrote:

 admironheart wrote:
So why do WraithGuard get Implacable and the much larger Wraithlords do not???

Why don't the better armed WraithBlades get it too?

Why Wraithblades don't get implacable is easy - the rule wouldn't do anything for them. As for Wraithlords, probably because they're not as focussed only on shooting as the WG.

The real question is why do Wraithlords still suffer -1 to hit for Heavies? They really should have a rule to ignore that (just like Wks, but without the added ability to charge after falling back)
This small change would really help WLs be a worthwhile choice

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sadhvikv wrote:

The judge got that wrong for sure

That is why this needs cleaned up in the new FAQ.

Is it even one of the questions submitted?

Apologies for coming in from nowhere with this, but a D-cannon Wraithseer with the Incomparable Hunter warlord trait seems really cool to me. Has anyone tried it out?

Only if you get the first turn and somehow there's a character within 24" without it having to move.

A Wraithseer will be killed on the first turn for certain if he's also your Warlord.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Only if you get the first turn and somehow there's a character within 24" without it having to move.

A Wraithseer will be killed on the first turn for certain if he's also your Warlord.

Well, if the WS is in LOS on the first turn, he deserves to die. D-cannons don't need LOS and a WS/WL is not that big. You should be able to hide him in your deployment, then move it range of something, then Fire & Fade back into LoS blocking terrain.

But I agree, if he is exposed, he dies.

-

One D-Cannon is already pretty negligible at shooting most characters. A moving one is even worse.

with LVO now done there is a lot of chatter to nerf the elder. Yet it was almost all ynarri with only 1 real elder near the top.

I think we have a really good codex even though I hear that others are better. I don't think Tyranids is actually the best like some state.

I think we dominate psychic most matchups which we should.
We do wipe away like paper as is fluffy.

I really don't think we are that hard hitting compared to other units...it is a nice mesh and synergy that makes our lackluster units good.

Imagine if we had no WebWay, Wave Serpents, DOOM or Shurikens. The army would be one of the worst.

I know the crowd clamours over Dark Reapers, but I don't think they are that much of a force multiplier.

Massed Shuriken fire, dropping in hard hitting units from reserves....the toughest transport in the game and the nicest set of synergetic psyche powers are the real game changers that make us good

And really that is what makes us elder. It is a good representation of elder (except that we throw a lot of lives away every battle....which has been ridiculous ever since 3rd)


I say NAY to the crowd that want to make changes.

At most add 3 or 6 points to dark reapers( the latter only if they get EML stats for that as the standard weapon)

EldAr! We are not a faction of old grumpy people!

Two things make Eldar a bit over the top :
- stacking -hit modifier.
- ynnari is extremely efficient in a small reaper & spears detachement.

Rule : - hit can never go over -1

There, no Eldar dominance anymore. But Alatoic is still powerful.

Weidekuh wrote:

- ynnari is extremely efficient in a small reaper & spears detachement.

Please confine Ynnari tactics and conversation to the Ynnari thread.

This is Craftworlds.

Slight disagreement there, Darkness. In general, yes, however it does seem to me that a lot of the “Eldar OP” discussion ultimately involves that Y-word somewhere, so while we draw the distinction, others are not.

Personally, I run pure Craftworld, and if something happens to my toys because of a rule interaction that doesn’t appear in - strictly speaking - their actual Codex, it would feel a bit ‘off’.

So discussion of how to make an Ynnari list work with X Y and Z? You’re right. A discussion on how/why Z could be affected because of that useage? I’d argue for leeway.

 admironheart wrote:
with LVO now done there is a lot of chatter to nerf the elder. Yet it was almost all ynarri with only 1 real elder near the top.

I think that's a bit disingenuous, as all the Ynnari list I've seen near the top were almost pure craftworlds, and all had pure craftworlds detachment. Also, the heavy lifters of these Ynnari lists were usually dark reapers and/or shining spears, supported by stratagems from the craftworlds codex.

And regarding whether or not that discussion is on topic, I agree with Pilum. Ynnari are currently at the top, but completely rely on craftworlds units and stratagems. So when they eventually get nerfed, it will probably be by through a nerf to the craftworlds codex (at this point is seems difficult to further nerf the Ynnari special rule, unless they get a codex that completely change it).

Regarding dark reapers, I think they're way too good. Ignoring all hit penalties is extremely strong, and makes them very reliable. The stratagem to shoot at deep striker, or going Ynnari, can make a unit shoot twice in a turn, which is enough to cripple most armies.
And while they're still 1W T3 guys, they interact very well with Alaitoc: the -1 to hit that disappears at 12" is supposed to grant protection to units that need to be close to work optimally. It's a good trait for units with rapid fire 24" weapons for instance, because they have the choice to trade some protection for more firepower. Dark reapers have insane range, and you can't even deep strike close to them otherwise you get destroyed before you can do anything.

They could do with a rework of their special rule, and a small point bump. Lowering the max unit size would also help with stratagems/psychic buffs/Ynnari that make a good unit way too strong.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Weidekuh wrote:

- ynnari is extremely efficient in a small reaper & spears detachement.

Please confine Ynnari tactics and conversation to the Ynnari thread.

This is Craftworlds.

And this is why my conclusion only adressed the craftworld part.

But see Pilums post as to why I disagree with you on that one. He explained it well.