Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Sarigar wrote:
I'm sure there can be some strategies involved for those who are trying to prevent you from placing the Webway exactly where you want it, but I don't see it being impossible to be placed.

The thing is something like 13-14" long, with 3" away you are talking about a 19-20" gap from terrain and objectives. Place an Objective between 2 terrain pieces.. boon no more WWG. At least tournaments they are preset objectives.

Turn it sideways and you only need about 7 inches of space, or about 4/5 inches of space from the board edge. I don't think it will be impossible to place on any reasonable looking board. If you're willing to play an opponent who would try and do this, and even if you're right, you're probably at a competitive event, meaning you won't be taking this thing anyway. It won't be a problem.

darkarchonlord wrote:
Since the stratagems do not have to target a Harlequin unit, as long as you have a harlequin detachment you can use them on whatever.

That being said, I'd expect versions for Craftworlds and Dark Eldar in the box. GW wouldn't put them into the Harlequins Codex...

That's also my guess.
We'll probably get the preview for the gate tomorrow or Friday. They might mention it.

Can anyone give some advice regarding how to build a Harlequins and Craftworld army? I understand the basics of how Harlequins work and what should be included for them, but I'm unsure about what from the Craftworlds codex best complements them. Given that Harlequins have issues dealing with hordes (both attacking them and weathering the weight of their fire), what CWE units should I be considering? Not looking to be hyper-competitive, though my local meta definitely isn't what I would call overly casual.

Thanks for any help!

 Porphyrius wrote:
Can anyone give some advice regarding how to build a Harlequins and Craftworld army? I understand the basics of how Harlequins work and what should be included for them, but I'm unsure about what from the Craftworlds codex best complements them. Given that Harlequins have issues dealing with hordes (both attacking them and weathering the weight of their fire), what CWE units should I be considering? Not looking to be hyper-competitive, though my local meta definitely isn't what I would call overly casual.

Thanks for any help!

if you want to be fluffy, grab eldrad and a unit of guardians in a wave serpent, back it up with some heavy support or a flyer you like the look of

Read the leaked rules for the new Imperial Knight special character. Read the 450 points cost. Compare to the 453 points sword and shield Wraithknight. Cry yourself to sleep.

Seriously GW, that's beyond awful. There is now way you can justify that. I'm pretty sure Questor Imperialis codex will get as much synergy or more as the WK has access too, so that's not an excuse. Having the WK overpowered the previous edition is certainly not an excuse.
I get new reasons each morning to throw my model through the window lol

I actually think the knight codex bodes well for Craftworld. Possibility of reducing cost of WK in next Chapter Approved.

As for mixing Harlies and craftworld, Harlies don't hold objectives well so a few Ranger sqds help. Adding flyers, especially hemlock, also good.

 bullyboy wrote:
I actually think the knight codex bodes well for Craftworld. Possibility of reducing cost of WK in next Chapter Approved.

As for mixing Harlies and craftworld, Harlies don't hold objectives well so a few Ranger sqds help. Adding flyers, especially hemlock, also good.

Yep with the new LD shenanigans of harlies you can make serious serious damage if you can properly combo some units (Hemlocks with terrify are the prime option)

 Lord Perversor wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
I actually think the knight codex bodes well for Craftworld. Possibility of reducing cost of WK in next Chapter Approved.

As for mixing Harlies and craftworld, Harlies don't hold objectives well so a few Ranger sqds help. Adding flyers, especially hemlock, also good.

Yep with the new LD shenanigans of harlies you can make serious serious damage if you can properly combo some units (Hemlocks with terrify are the prime option)

Terrify is almost never worth it. It could potentially make one more unit run, but at that point, you're better off casting smite instead and averaging 2 mortal wounds.

A lot of powers when it comes to real game with ranges and positioning end up worse than Smite honestly. Sure you can remove that cover save and your bunch of guardians can kill an extra model or two.

Or you can cast smite on 5 instead and remove extra model or two. Or six if you're super lucky.

Most of runes of Battle feel only good when invested into a big expensive unit, and better throw some extra into there. I don't even use Guide/Fortune nowadays tbh.

Doom, Executioner, and smite, smite, smite from everyone else.

 Shadenuat wrote:
A lot of powers when it comes to real game with ranges and positioning end up worse than Smite honestly. Sure you can remove that cover save and your bunch of guardians can kill an extra model or two.

Or you can cast smite on 5 instead and remove extra model or two. Or six if you're super lucky.

Assuming they're the closest target. If they're not then you're going to have to smite a different target then the one you're trying to destroy.

Everything is situational.

I have used Horrify to great effect and often times rarely will cast smite as a whole because the other powers are so much better for the situation.

Anyone wanna tell me about Eldar in 8th? I've never played them and only fought against them once or twice in like 6th or 7th.

Do they have good diversity in builds? How are they fairing in this edition? Would a mechanized list be a good idea? What about the starter kit, no guardians? What should be done with the Farseer, 5 Wraithguard, Wraithlord, and War Walker?

With all that I'm reading/hearing about Imperial Knights, Wraithknights better get a serious points drop in Chapter Approved this year.

 bullyboy wrote:
With all that I'm reading/hearing about Imperial Knights, Wraithknights better get a serious points drop in Chapter Approved this year.

Codex Aeldari Knights, with the quadruped ones
One might dream...

Played in a 14 man 1850 small event today, a wide spread of lists. Went up against Nids, Ravenguard, and then Orks at the top table. Nids and Orks were both really tough games. Ended up tabling my opponents in games 2 and 3. List was as follows. Pure Craftworld.

Alaitoc BN
Autarch w/ Shiftshroud, Reaper Launcher, Mark of Hunter
Farseer w/ Doom and Guide
Rangers x5
Rangers x5
Rangers x5
Hemlock
Dark Reapers x5
Dark Reapers x4
Dark Reapers x4

Alaitoc BN
Warlock w/ Sword
Warlock w/ Spear
Dire Avengers x5
Dire Avengers x5
Rangers x5
Warwalkers x3 w/ Scatter Lasers
Wave Serpent w/ Scatter Lasers
Wave Serpent w/ Scatter Lasers

I plan on taking this, plus 2 Vypers and 1 more Reaper, for 2k to ATC and another GT shortly there after.

 djones520 wrote:
Played in a 14 man 1850 small event today, a wide spread of lists. Went up against Nids, Ravenguard, and then Orks at the top table. Nids and Orks were both really tough games. Ended up tabling my opponents in games 2 and 3. List was as follows. Pure Craftworld.

Alaitoc BN
Autarch w/ Shiftshroud, Reaper Launcher, Mark of Hunter
Farseer w/ Doom and Guide
Rangers x5
Rangers x5
Rangers x5
Hemlock
Dark Reapers x5
Dark Reapers x4
Dark Reapers x4

Alaitoc BN
Warlock w/ Sword
Warlock w/ Spear
Dire Avengers x5
Dire Avengers x5
Rangers x5
Warwalkers x3 w/ Scatter Lasers
Wave Serpent w/ Scatter Lasers
Wave Serpent w/ Scatter Lasers

I plan on taking this, plus 2 Vypers and 1 more Reaper, for 2k to ATC and another GT shortly there after.

Why the Shriftshroud? Isn't it useless besides the -1 to hit against shooting now you can't deepstrike first turn outside of your deployment zone?

Scatter lasers are soooo 7th ed, shuriken cannons are better these days (as warwalkers get battle focus and serpents get vectored enginges)
What are the powers on those warlocks? Maybe you can find the points to up them to spiritseers for the option of full smite and extra wounds.

 DanielFM wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
Played in a 14 man 1850 small event today, a wide spread of lists. Went up against Nids, Ravenguard, and then Orks at the top table. Nids and Orks were both really tough games. Ended up tabling my opponents in games 2 and 3. List was as follows. Pure Craftworld.

Alaitoc BN
Autarch w/ Shiftshroud, Reaper Launcher, Mark of Hunter
Farseer w/ Doom and Guide
Rangers x5
Rangers x5
Rangers x5
Hemlock
Dark Reapers x5
Dark Reapers x4
Dark Reapers x4

Alaitoc BN
Warlock w/ Sword
Warlock w/ Spear
Dire Avengers x5
Dire Avengers x5
Rangers x5
Warwalkers x3 w/ Scatter Lasers
Wave Serpent w/ Scatter Lasers
Wave Serpent w/ Scatter Lasers

I plan on taking this, plus 2 Vypers and 1 more Reaper, for 2k to ATC and another GT shortly there after.

Why the Shriftshroud? Isn't it useless besides the -1 to hit against shooting now you can't deepstrike first turn outside of your deployment zone?

Snipers are a pretty hefty thing in the Meta that I've experienced, so thats why. I haven't found a ton of use for the other relics, and his own ability to snipe characters with a reaper launcher makes him a big target.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cpt. Icanus wrote:
Scatter lasers are soooo 7th ed, shuriken cannons are better these days (as warwalkers get battle focus and serpents get vectored enginges)
What are the powers on those warlocks? Maybe you can find the points to up them to spiritseers for the option of full smite and extra wounds.

Scatter lasers still work just fine.

Yeah funny you mention scatter lasers; After struggling to mow through a tide of 4 pt Guardsmen before they swarmed my objective in a battle yesterday, I found myself mathhammering some shooting for modestly priced non-infantry choices vs GeQ.

Funnily enough, after 5 rounds of shooting Scatbikes are about the only thing that kill significantly more than their own points worth of Guardsmen. They aren't as durable vs other similar options like Warwalkers, but on the other hand they're a great target for things like Guide, and conceal, which are often wasted on other units.

Might mix in a squad next time and see what happens.

Scatterlasers need to be rapid fire 3 or something like that for them to actually have a place. Maybe even rapid fire 4 and drop the strength profile. We could really use a horde clearer and the scatter laser is begging to be it.

Yeah, CWE lacks high-volume low-S weapons. We really just have Lasblasters on Hawks, and Shuriken spam. We're so strong that it's normally not noticed, but it does seem odd.

I think one of the better anti horde options we have is clever placement of hemlocks to cover multiple units with -2 ld, it adds up quickly if there's no morale shenanigans.

Cpt. Icanus wrote:
I think one of the better anti horde options we have is clever placement of hemlocks to cover multiple units with -2 ld, it adds up quickly if there's no morale shenanigans.

There usually are morale shenanigans though thats the issue. Even Guard with their nerfed Commisars still have Ld 9 and 10 man units + a choice of a re-roll, you're realistically only getting a small shot at 'morale damage' per squad even if you spread the casualties out nicely. Hemlocks are always a strong take anyway though so might as well try.

What are some good melee choices for Eldar? I'd like some melee units to counter enemy melee units. There seems to be Howling Banshees, Striking Scorpions, Wraithblades, and Shining Spears. Did I miss anything? Which of these choices are good and/or how are their roles distinct?

Thanks!

 djones520 wrote:
Played in a 14 man 1850 small event today, a wide spread of lists. Went up against Nids, Ravenguard, and then Orks at the top table. Nids and Orks were both really tough games. Ended up tabling my opponents in games 2 and 3. List was as follows. Pure Craftworld.

What was in the ork army if that was tough one? Standard boyz swarm should be getting blown apart steadily without actually doing much short of lucky charges. Dark reapers vaporize stuff, wave serpents are virtually indestructible against shooting and pretty darn tough against cc if he catch. Alaitoc makes orks main shooter just as likely hurt itself as hit enemy. Albeit you are bit thin on anti-infantry but then again not like alaitoc I faced sometime ago had piles of that either and had less reapers and basically was deleting unit or two per turn while I had trouble killing anything due to -1 to hit and them playing hide&seek.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spartacus wrote:

Cpt. Icanus wrote:
I think one of the better anti horde options we have is clever placement of hemlocks to cover multiple units with -2 ld, it adds up quickly if there's no morale shenanigans.

There usually are morale shenanigans though thats the issue. Even Guard with their nerfed Commisars still have Ld 9 and 10 man units + a choice of a re-roll, you're realistically only getting a small shot at 'morale damage' per squad even if you spread the casualties out nicely. Hemlocks are always a strong take anyway though so might as well try.

One "anti horde" trick is actually movement blocker. If you can aim it right those fliers make annoying roadblock for horde army to go through. Orks in particular hate that as effectively invulnerable big base that you have to move around. With often orks left and right the unit blocked generally tend to have to basically stand back. If you can move away from the other side and concentrate on the other side that's basically turn another turn orks barely advance.

Been on target of that. Not fun!

Cpt. Icanus wrote:
I think one of the better anti horde options we have is clever placement of hemlocks to cover multiple units with -2 ld, it adds up quickly if there's no morale shenanigans.

Morale is stricly better againt tough models since you're removing models not wounds. Yes, weak models tend to have lower leadership, but the armies that have those almost ALWAYS have shenanigans (orcs, nids).

 Kharneth wrote:
Anyone wanna tell me about Eldar in 8th? I've never played them and only fought against them once or twice in like 6th or 7th.

Do they have good diversity in builds? How are they fairing in this edition? Would a mechanized list be a good idea? What about the starter kit, no guardians? What should be done with the Farseer, 5 Wraithguard, Wraithlord, and War Walker?

Yes, Eldar have a good diversity of builds. There are a lot of units in the Codex which helps although a fair few of them are pretty poor.

Mechanised Eldar are very strong with Wave Serpents being one of the best transports in the game and the Fire Prism is lethal, particularly when run in pairs with the "Linked Fire" stratagem.

Guardians are an odd unit. They are fragile and have very short-ranged firepower. You can add heavy weapons to them but this does not synergise well with their basic guns. If people take them, it is usually to run a single big squad of 20 with 2 shurican cannons and deploy them close to an enemy unit using the "Webway Assault" stratagem. Dire Avengers are decent as they are basically guardians with better armour, longer ranged guns and some useful abilities. Rangers are pretty good, particularly when used in an Alaitoc detachment.

Eldar rely heavily on their stratagems so make sure you take at least 1 Battalion (hence 3 Troop units)for the 5 CPs it generates.

Other units that are good are Dark Reapers, Wraithguard, Shining Spears, Hemlocks and Crimson Hunters.

Wraithlords and War Walkers are decent if used correctly.

 Karhedron wrote:

 Kharneth wrote:
Anyone wanna tell me about Eldar in 8th? I've never played them and only fought against them once or twice in like 6th or 7th.

Do they have good diversity in builds? How are they fairing in this edition? Would a mechanized list be a good idea? What about the starter kit, no guardians? What should be done with the Farseer, 5 Wraithguard, Wraithlord, and War Walker?

Yes, Eldar have a good diversity of builds. There are a lot of units in the Codex which helps although a fair few of them are pretty poor.

Mechanised Eldar are very strong with Wave Serpents being one of the best transports in the game and the Fire Prism is lethal, particularly when run in pairs with the "Linked Fire" stratagem.

Guardians are an odd unit. They are fragile and have very short-ranged firepower. You can add heavy weapons to them but this does not synergise well with their basic guns. If people take them, it is usually to run a single big squad of 20 with 2 shurican cannons and deploy them close to an enemy unit using the "Webway Assault" stratagem. Dire Avengers are decent as they are basically guardians with better armour, longer ranged guns and some useful abilities. Rangers are pretty good, particularly when used in an Alaitoc detachment.

Eldar rely heavily on their stratagems so make sure you take at least 1 Battalion (hence 3 Troop units)for the 5 CPs it generates.

Other units that are good are Dark Reapers, Wraithguard, Shining Spears, Hemlocks and Crimson Hunters.

Wraithlords and War Walkers are decent if used correctly.

Can you elaborate on your final statement regarding Wraithlords and War Walkers?

I have bought the starter kit (Wraithlord, War Walker, 5 Wraithguard, Farseer) and 5 Dire Avengers and a Wave Serpent. How are Wraithlords and War Walkers used correctly? I can see myself using them in one of two ways each.

Regarding Wraithguard, I've heard there are two ways to use them. The first by giving them Wraithcannons and deep striking them within 9" of a vehicle, now on turn 2. Or give them D-Scythes and put them in a Wave Serpent because you can advance and still auto hit. Why is putting them in a Wave Serpent with Wraithcannons not as good as D-Scythes? With 8" range, you'd need to roll a 4 to advance just to be at the same relative shooting distance as the wraithcannon. I'm not sure what the advantage is.

It's just that, if you want to use Scytheguard, advancing offsets the lower range. Whereas, if you WWP Scytheguard, they cannot shoot that turn (cannot be in range).

WraithCannon Wraithguard can function out of a Serpent, too. But you have fewer attacks that are each bigger, vs more attacks that autohit but only do D1.

Bharring wrote:
It's just that, if you want to use Scytheguard, advancing offsets the lower range. Whereas, if you WWP Scytheguard, they cannot shoot that turn (cannot be in range).

WraithCannon Wraithguard can function out of a Serpent, too. But you have fewer attacks that are each bigger, vs more attacks that autohit but only do D1.

I'm wondering whether I should put my wraithguard in a serpent or in the webway with their cannons. Additionally, I have 10 (working on 20) guardians who I think I'd like to put in the webway. Not sure if I should spend the 3 CP to put them both in reserves or if I should put the wraithguard in the serpent and spend only the 1 CP. Perhaps the guardians and wraithguard would be good together as they're both 12" range.

Are we still able to move units who arrive via reserves with stratagems (fire and fade)? I vaguely recall that only psychic powers that move units are not allowed to target units that arrived from reserves (warptime, quicken, etc), but perhaps I'm incorrect.

You *will* find other uses for the Serpent in your game, aside from just transporting the WG. But the Serpent is less flexible/reliable delivery than WWP. It's a tradeoff.

Wraithguard want to hit big many-W models - otherwise, they're a waste. Guardians do best against things that tend to be 1W models - as they do 1W per failed save. They complement eachother well, but you're looking for very different targets. Also, the things you want to keep your Guardians away from (things with lots of attacks/shots) tend to be different from the things you wnat to keep your Wraithguard away from (things with fewer but much stronger attacks/shots).