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 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Warriors still not good then eh? I have a brood I'd love to use again.

I've had warriors do real work against... Literally anything except the new Marines. They're able to mix it up in melee and range with the tried and true Boneswords + Deathspitter.

I DO miss my Tyranid prime having access to bio-cannons

But I have had quite good luck with multiple squads of 3 warriors each with Venom cannon, BS + DS with a prime for synapse and ability to eat a screen himself shooting + Charging.

2 points less for each are already something. I hoped for 3 though.

One (small, very small) point for the adaptive physiology. We select it at list building. Which means, if you take a monstrous brood (3 carnifexes), they are still one unit before they split, so you can trade your WT to have 3 carnifexes with adaptive physiology abilities.

It's something.

It all depends on us having or not a stratagem to purchase additional ones before battle start.

If we do, they are great, if not they are a joke.

I mean that is the Preview of the juicy stuff. Think about the poor other changes ...
My dear nids will sit on a shelf for long time still...

Spoletta wrote:
It all depends on us having or not a stratagem to purchase additional ones before battle start.

If we do, they are great, if not they are a joke.

My bugbear is we need to spend CP on something which should be our equivalent of super doctrines from SM.

Pure Nids? Awesome! then X units per detachment can be mutated/adapted as per your choice!

Still anxiously waiting for info on the cost of HARUSPEX !!

An anit-soup bonus would have been nice.

The fact that we don't have it means that the codex is getting redone apparently.

Spoletta wrote:
An anit-soup bonus would have been nice.

The fact that we don't have it means that the codex is getting redone apparently.

You give GW too much credit. The fact that we don't have it means that they just don't give a gak about Nids.

Warriors have had a decent drop I will really need to test them out to see the effect. 255pts for a brood of 9 with bone swords deathspitters adrenal glands and 3 venom cannons is not bad.
I hope the Tyranid Prime drops a bit too.

Prime is unchanged.

I'm wondering if a fat unit of warriors in ruins with the new adaptation (+2 to cover) in midfield would be a solid force. They have 2+ armor, 3 wounds, they are plenty shooty and plenty killy in close combat, and give out synapse. Could be a force to hold down the middle of the table and threat in multiple ways.

Probably it's gonna suck, but whatevers

So a Jorg Hive fleet with a Prime and 3 max size units of warriors will cost 843 (from 897). In the open (counts as in cover with jorg trait) will have a 2+sv. If you give the Prime the Incidous threat WL trait it ignores opp cover. Has a huge footprint and is super tough. Add a Venomthrope brood or a Malanthrope and you have a brutal center field that shoud be hard as nails to move and could support/surround a few big guns like exocrines or Tyrannofex.

Edit: Sorry got carried away only one unit can have the adaptation and it's at the cost of the WL trait.....oh well at least it's 54 pts cheaper...lol

Timeshadow wrote:
So a Jorg Hive fleet with a Prime and 3 max size units of warriors will cost 843 (from 897). In the open (counts as in cover with jorg trait) will have a 2+sv. If you give the Prime the Incidous threat WL trait it ignores opp cover. Has a huge footprint and is super tough. Add a Venomthrope brood or a Malanthrope and you have a brutal center field that shoud be hard as nails to move and could support/surround a few big guns like exocrines or Tyrannofex.

You have to give up your warlord trait to get the physiology, and -unless we hear something else- only one unit can have it. But 2+ armor tyranid warriors out in the open with -1 to hit does indeed sound sexy. tyranid terminators anyone?

Also, because the physiology is being used in the list and not on the table, you can replace a WT to buff a full unit of 3 Jorm Carnifexes before they split, giving you 3 carnifexes with 1+ armor out in the open. And this I dig VERY much, especially if fexes see a points drop (helbrutes dropped 20 points, so why shouldn't fexes too?)

Not sure about this. The rule says "One infantry unit or a monster".

So i have no idea how it would work on a monster unit.

I'm very excited for Jorm Hierodule with a 1+ save in the open. That's basically 4++ vs most AT as well.

 Nitro Zeus wrote:
I'm very excited for Jorm Hierodule with a 1+ save in the open. That's basically 4++ vs most AT as well.

If it gets like 150 pts cheaper maybe.

Hah hah nids really got punched hard it seems in this end of year 2019. I still remember back when our codex dropped how everyone was so happy about their nid army... hah the good old days.
Now to the salt mines !

Too soon.

We still have to see which buffs we received in CA. We only got to see a minor part of the unit list and in there more than half the units received the cut. This makes me hope for the other page.

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:
I'm very excited for Jorm Hierodule with a 1+ save in the open. That's basically 4++ vs most AT as well.

If it gets like 150 pts cheaper maybe.

It’s really not that bad at all, and being able to buff it like this is definitely playable. It has some good tricks to make up for what a Knight has that it doesn’t.

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:
I'm very excited for Jorm Hierodule with a 1+ save in the open. That's basically 4++ vs most AT as well.

If it gets like 150 pts cheaper maybe.

It’s really not that bad at all, and being able to buff it like this is definitely playable. It has some good tricks to make up for what a Knight has that it doesn’t.

Unless you face someone having his/her 1st ever 40k game, it is definitely NOT playable

There was a rumor going around that FW stuff was getting a balance pass this year, since there were no adjustments to FW points last year. Let's wait and see before jumping to conclusions.

While I am quite disappointed in the PA preview, I do think that the idea of adaptive physiology on a Hierodule might have some merit if they get a reasonable points drop.

There were many FW adjustments last year, FW rebalance pass was one of the selling points of the CA18 (and it helped many models)

They just ignored ours. They didn't even fix the typos in weapon names in the table.

 Emicrania wrote:
I mean that is the Preview of the juicy stuff. Think about the poor other changes ...
My dear nids will sit on a shelf for long time still...

That's not inherently true.

For example, CSM got some serious goodies out of Faith and Fury. They're not nearly enough to make chaos marines great enough, nor are they as good as what the favorite-son of loyalist SM got. That doesn't take away from the fact that they got some of the best stratagems / relics in the game in that book. Ones which weren't featured in the sneak peak.

While it's foolish to hope that nids are going to magically be shot to the top of the competitive list in this book while they're opposite loyalist marines, it's horribly pessimistic to assume that the preview is showing us "the best of the best" for what the book will hold.

addnid wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:
I'm very excited for Jorm Hierodule with a 1+ save in the open. That's basically 4++ vs most AT as well.

If it gets like 150 pts cheaper maybe.

It’s really not that bad at all, and being able to buff it like this is definitely playable. It has some good tricks to make up for what a Knight has that it doesn’t.

Unless you face someone having his/her 1st ever 40k game, it is definitely NOT playable

I literally just went undefeated at an event over the weekend while using one. Someone else got 4th place at a larger GT as well on the same day. So you’re factually incorrect on that one at the very least.

If you don’t know how to use it you may struggle. Otherwise it is actually a decent unit. And it just got a WHOLE lot better.

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

addnid wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:
I'm very excited for Jorm Hierodule with a 1+ save in the open. That's basically 4++ vs most AT as well.

If it gets like 150 pts cheaper maybe.

It’s really not that bad at all, and being able to buff it like this is definitely playable. It has some good tricks to make up for what a Knight has that it doesn’t.

Unless you face someone having his/her 1st ever 40k game, it is definitely NOT playable

I literally just went undefeated at an event over the weekend while using one. Someone else got 4th place at a larger GT as well on the same day.

If you don’t know how to use it you may struggle. Otherwise it is actually a decent unit. And it just got a WHOLE lot better.

It really has pitiful damage for its points.

Pitiful? No. A little below what you may expect from a 400 pt unit, sure. But it has other excellent strengths and can just do a bunch of stuff that a Knight cannot. It’s a finesse unit that takes more thought to play than the average Knight, but this also comes with a lot of options. I took the right risks and it killed over its value in points every single game of the event! And weathered a bunch of fire while doing so. How it plays was not reflected at all by its data sheet, there’s a lot of hidden value in there. The player who got 4th at the GT beat out a ton of nasty stuff with it by the last round was undefeated, and he lost only to that Iron Hands player who that ended up winning the event.

I wouldn’t write it off. Especially not now.

Are we talking about the thing that costs 430 pts and shoots 12 shots str 8 d3 damage with BS 4+? So basically what 6 hive guard do, only with worse BS, without ignoring cover, without being able to shoot out of LoS and without being able to shoot twice, for the bargain price of 150 pts more expensive? This is the thing we are talking about?

The thing that costs knight points and has less wounds and no invuln save, and absolutely zero utility?

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Are we talking about the thing that costs 430 pts and shoots 12 shots str 8 d3 damage with BS 4+? So basically what 6 hive guard do, only with worse BS, without ignoring cover, without being able to shoot out of LoS and without being able to shoot twice, for the bargain price of 150 pts more expensive? This is the thing we are talking about?

The thing that costs knight points and has less wounds and no invuln save, and absolutely zero utility?

No. I'm obviously talking about the Scythed Hieodule, who is cheaper, better, hits harder, and has a ton more utility. Both me and and the guy who used it over in Fresno to do extremely well were using the Scythed Hierodule.

 Nitro Zeus wrote:
Pitiful? No. A little below what you may expect from a 400 pt unit, sure. But it has other excellent strengths and can just do a bunch of stuff that a Knight cannot. It’s a finesse unit that takes more thought to play than the average Knight, but this also comes with a lot of options. I took the right risks and it killed over its value in points every single game of the event! And weathered a bunch of fire while doing so. How it plays was not reflected at all by its data sheet, there’s a lot of hidden value in there. The player who got 4th at the GT beat out a ton of nasty stuff with it by the last round was undefeated, and he lost only to that Iron Hands player who that ended up winning the event.

I wouldn’t write it off. Especially not now.

Do you mind going into a little more detail? I'd like to put the Hierodule to good use, but just calling it a finesse unit and saying it can do stuff a Knight can't is really vague.