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KurtAngle2 wrote:

It's not a good list imo. If you replace Tyrannofex with shooty Foot Tyrants

I am fully open to exchanging the Tyrannofexes. They were mainly included because they went well with the other components and provided a solution for T8+ targets.

KurtAngle2 wrote:

take something else instead of Tervigons (Neurothropes and Malanthropes) and go for Jormungandr/Leviathan instead of Kronos you actually have quite a sturdy and tanky list to face.

The thing is, the list as structured right now (plus or minus a few things) has been very resilient during the critical early turns because of the Tervigons soaking up anti-armor fire and replenishing Termagant losses. Even with full damage mitigation it is common to loose 15-20 odd Termagants from a squad. However, the presence of the Tervigons completely nullifies the damage provided at least one Termagant survives (which has generally been achieved with positioning). If the Tervigons are not killed early the Termagants + Tervigons will generally grind down and overwhelm opposing troops on objectives, while if they are destroyed it leaves the Exocrines free to blast away longer than they otherwise might have been allowed to.

I've mostly been sticking with pure Kronos for Symbiostorm and how well the adaptation as a whole plays with Exocrines and the Tyrannofexes, but I have also used Leviathan with variants of the build successfully. As-is the Termagants in the list have full rerolls built in from the Tervigon (reroll 1's to hit) and their 20+ model bonus (reroll 1's to wound).

KurtAngle2 wrote:

The advantage of being wounded by S9 weaponries (which is 90% Lascannons) is completely offset by the lack of invulnerable saves on the board (and you are going to give both Exocrines a 5++) which in tandem with -1 to hit and still -1 Strenght (and T7 Monsters keep benefitting from it when the weapons are S4/S7/S8) makes the list much better than "lol spam T8 but they're actually not really resilient and overpriced as feth".

The key distinction is that with T8 monsters any S8 weapons need a 5+ to wound with Encephalic Diffusion up. S8 covers the vast majority of anti-tank weaponry in the game so as a whole it makes T8 a significant advantage over T7 in this context. High AP doesn't matter as much if 2/3rds of hits fail to wound. The Malceptor itself also comes with an invulnerable save, so realistically the only monsters that won't be shielded are the Tervigons (which as mentioned, the list is generally fine with having targeted since it lets the fire support run longer).

 Strat_N8 wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

It's not a good list imo. If you replace Tyrannofex with shooty Foot Tyrants

I am fully open to exchanging the Tyrannofexes. They were mainly included because they went well with the other components and provided a solution for T8+ targets.

KurtAngle2 wrote:

take something else instead of Tervigons (Neurothropes and Malanthropes) and go for Jormungandr/Leviathan instead of Kronos you actually have quite a sturdy and tanky list to face.

The thing is, the list as structured right now (plus or minus a few things) has been very resilient during the critical early turns because of the Tervigons soaking up anti-armor fire and replenishing Termagant losses. Even with full damage mitigation it is common to loose 15-20 odd Termagants from a squad. However, the presence of the Tervigons completely nullifies the damage provided at least one Termagant survives (which has generally been achieved with positioning). If the Tervigons are not killed early the Termagants + Tervigons will generally grind down and overwhelm opposing troops on objectives, while if they are destroyed it leaves the Exocrines free to blast away longer than they otherwise might have been allowed to.

I've mostly been sticking with pure Kronos for Symbiostorm and how well the adaptation as a whole plays with Exocrines and the Tyrannofexes, but I have also used Leviathan with variants of the build successfully. As-is the Termagants in the list have full rerolls built in from the Tervigon (reroll 1's to hit) and their 20+ model bonus (reroll 1's to wound).

KurtAngle2 wrote:

The advantage of being wounded by S9 weaponries (which is 90% Lascannons) is completely offset by the lack of invulnerable saves on the board (and you are going to give both Exocrines a 5++) which in tandem with -1 to hit and still -1 Strenght (and T7 Monsters keep benefitting from it when the weapons are S4/S7/S8) makes the list much better than "lol spam T8 but they're actually not really resilient and overpriced as feth".

The key distinction is that with T8 monsters any S8 weapons need a 5+ to wound with Encephalic Diffusion up. S8 covers the vast majority of anti-tank weaponry in the game so as a whole it makes T8 a significant advantage over T7 in this context. High AP doesn't matter as much if 2/3rds of hits fail to wound. The Malceptor itself also comes with an invulnerable save, so realistically the only monsters that won't be shielded are the Tervigons (which as mentioned, the list is generally fine with having targeted since it lets the fire support run longer).

Being wounded on 4s whilst having a 4++ is mathematically miles ahead of being wounded on 5s with a 6+ armor save "at best". Encephalic Diffusion pairs best with T3 and T7 models with Invulnerable save rather than mere T8 3+ beasts that are also pricier. Also T7 gains one of unique advantages T8 had which is "immunity" to S4 weapons (considering that wounding on 6s is really hard to digest when the model is also multiwound with multiple saves and/or further defensive buffs) and oddly better ppw ratio.
The list itself is very easy to counter considering that all it has it mere antitank weaponry and 12" antinfantry. Your opponent could completely ignore termagants if conscious that he won't be able to kill a unit in one go and focus all the Tyrannofexes/Exocrines (or if not dangerous/visible just explode one Tervigon at time) till you literally have nothing else. The "resilience" Tervigons provide is completely conditional and not "always in effect" like the Malanthrope/Maleceptor bubbles/6+++.

Well actually, assuming an autohit that needs a 5+ to wound and allows a 6+ save you're looking at 0.2739 unsaved wounds, which is only a little bit worse than the 0.25 you'd get with a 4+ to wound/4++ save hit. </comicbookguy>

shortymcnostrill wrote:
Well actually, assuming an autohit that needs a 5+ to wound and allows a 6+ save you're looking at 0.2739 unsaved wounds, which is only a little bit worse than the 0.25 you'd get with a 4+ to wound/4++ save hit. </comicbookguy>

In best case scenario for a T8 3+ (Lascannon hits turned into S8, therefore actually working only on a T8 3+ profile instead of T7 4++), an autohitting lascannon deals 1.167 Damage in a T7 4++ case VS 1.458 for a T8 3+ unit; as you can see even with the added benefit of having the shot wounding on 4s instead of 3s the T7 4++ emerges victorious, but that's only a single common case.
What about a Melta-like shot? It does 1,167 Damage on a T8 3+ chassis (we're always considering the Encephalic Diffusion stratagem) whilst the other T7 4++ profile only gets 0,875 points of damage.
The other cases are following the same outlined path with T7 4++ being better or on par with T8 3+ (like Autocannons/Grenade Launchers and so on) in all common AND uncommon cases and actually depriving T8 3+ of its best advantage which is S4 spam to deal few wounds on a T7 chassis (which is now wounded on 6s like a T8 3+)

TL;DR T7 4++ is always better even with Encephalic Diffusion (only fringe case is Heavy Bolter spam)

played a game this evening vs my neighbor, game ended t5 with the score Custodies 12, Tyranids 11. My list.




Was a fun list, still trying different things out. Those custodies are tough nuts to crack lol.

Mel (my Maleceptor) was actually quite vital to the list with the Encephalic Diffusion strat. I bring this up since that's what's been discussed the most recently. I was quite happy with his effectiveness.

My queen hive tyrant (non winged version from 3rd edition, the one that looks like an Alien) did good as well, she ended up killing 4 custodies terminators in cc (over 2 rounds) and did 6 wounds to a shield captain on a bike with a 3++ save. She did finally die to the massive firepower of the custodie grav tank with 2 big cannons on it (don't remember its name sorry) but she did quite well for herself. Rolling those 6's to wound.... there is something just flat out silly about ap-7 d4 attacks. I should find the points and give her scything talons or devourers or something, but I am using her as a distraction that shouldn't be ignored and she did that just fine.

Tyranofexs did fail horribly for me though. Even shooting 12 Rupture cannon shots a turn they didn't do anything of note until t4 when they gunned down an entire squad of custodies. Otherwise they were... not accurate at all. I dont think it was their fault, t1 out of 12 shots 10 missed. I need to learn how to roll better lol.

KurtAngle2 wrote:

shortymcnostrill wrote:
Well actually, assuming an autohit that needs a 5+ to wound and allows a 6+ save you're looking at 0.2739 unsaved wounds, which is only a little bit worse than the 0.25 you'd get with a 4+ to wound/4++ save hit. </comicbookguy>

In best case scenario for a T8 3+ (Lascannon hits turned into S8, therefore actually working only on a T8 3+ profile instead of T7 4++), an autohitting lascannon deals 1.167 Damage in a T7 4++ case VS 1.458 for a T8 3+ unit; as you can see even with the added benefit of having the shot wounding on 4s instead of 3s the T7 4++ emerges victorious, but that's only a single common case.
What about a Melta-like shot? It does 1,167 Damage on a T8 3+ chassis (we're always considering the Encephalic Diffusion stratagem) whilst the other T7 4++ profile only gets 0,875 points of damage.
The other cases are following the same outlined path with T7 4++ being better or on par with T8 3+ (like Autocannons/Grenade Launchers and so on) in all common AND uncommon cases and actually depriving T8 3+ of its best advantage which is S4 spam to deal few wounds on a T7 chassis (which is now wounded on 6s like a T8 3+)

TL;DR T7 4++ is always better even with Encephalic Diffusion (only fringe case is Heavy Bolter spam)

Why does this matter, though? You're comparing apples and oranges. Yes, as you've shown, you get more value out of *the Maleceptor* your way. But if you're not better served by a Hive Tyrant or other Maleceptor (the only T7 4++s in the book...) than you are by a Tyrannofex or an Exocrine, this exercise is pointless. I'd rather have the offensive output of the big boys and the boons from the Maleceptor may not affect them equally, but I still get a lot of mileage out of it with T8. Maybe I'm moving the goalpost here but taking T7 because it's boosted by the Maleceptor more is sort of the tail wagging the dog.

Not sure what the above argument is about and I don't really care to read into it because it looks like a regular kurtangle2 debate, but I'll say that I've put a Maleceptor into my Nidzilla. No reason not to, it's a really good addition and at worst, is something else that draws fire off everything else. Maleceptor + Malanthrope makes 80x T8 wounds not easy to shift for anyone. And he threatens the psychic nova, which probably won't do much but it's there, and also is a +1 to cast caster, what's not to love.

 Nitro Zeus wrote:
Not sure what the above argument is about and I don't really care to read into it because it looks like a regular kurtangle2 debate, but I'll say that I've put a Maleceptor into my Nidzilla. No reason not to, it's a really good addition and at worst, is something else that draws fire off everything else. Maleceptor + Malanthrope makes 80x T8 wounds not easy to shift for anyone. And he threatens the psychic nova, which probably won't do much but it's there, and also is a +1 to cast caster, what's not to love.

You should as the bare minimum get to read what other people say about the same topic you've been upping now. TL;DR was that Maleceptor (built around the stratagem) is good and has the biggest benefits for T3/T4/T7/T8 bodies (which are 90% of the codex) with T7 having access to more mathematical advantages than T8. This does not mean that you shouldn't play T8 but in the discussion above I've suggested not to spam Tyrannofexes/Tervigons just because they were T8 since it's still a bad MC even with Maleceptor support

Nah, I'm not inclined to read all your arguments, just to have my own opinion and experience on a model. You do you, my experience has clearly differed from yours. Sounds like you're tl;dr isn't really summing up any of that discussion anyway, just your own opinion, as what I gathered skimming through was that everyone disagreed with you anyway

Depending on the nid lists alpha strike potensial and the opposing heavy weapons T8 can be really good.

How many armies can and do fill up on lascannons these days after knights do do not dominate the meta? IG and SM might have lascannons. GSC ridge runners. With dark reapers being good few eldars run fire prisemns. Dark eldar lanses stops at 8 exceptbon flyer. (Poisen is stil +4 though.) As some one who regurerly play orks I can say you do not wanne be hurting T8 on 5+.

Maleseptor + T8 sounds great.

 Niiai wrote:
Depending on the nid lists alpha strike potensial and the opposing heavy weapons T8 can be really good.

How many armies can and do fill up on lascannons these days after knights do do not dominate the meta? IG and SM might have lascannons. GSC ridge runners. With dark reapers being good few eldars run fire prisemns. Dark eldar lanses stops at 8 exceptbon flyer. (Poisen is stil +4 though.) As some one who regurerly play orks I can say you do not wanne be hurting T8 on 5+.

Maleseptor + T8 sounds great.

I'm stacking double Acid Spray Fex, Exocrine, Hierodule, and 2 Carnifexes, with Malanthrope and Maleceptor support. It does not go down easy. Smart use of Dermic Symbiosis, Prepared positions for army wide 2+ if you go second, Catalyst if you got first turn. It's a ball of pain when it hits. Tyrannofexes are that unit that I didn't know if I ever wanted to use it based on it's datasheet - until I started using it. Pull their weight every single game, and cover so many bases. Acid Spray ones are mandatory Kraken + AG though, they want to be in position ASAP. But that's Nidzilla in general imo.

This might be the wrong time, with a new edition looming, but I’ve got a little bit of my tax return earmarked for new projects and was thinking of getting a small force of Nids to act as a foil for my Ultras. The problem is that they are a lot different from my other armies, so it’s hard to get a gauge on how to set things up. Like how much ranged AV do you need, or how much can be done in CC. This is not intended for competitive play, just something that can hold its own at the FLGS.

A few things:
I’m not a fan of a lot of the Big Bug kits. Exception is the Trygon. I do like a lot of the mid range stuff like carnefexes, tyrants, Zoes. And the little bugs
I’d like to build a TAC list that feels like a “classic” swarm. Lots of little gribblies, with a few big guys backing them up.
I like the look of the serpentine nids (hence the Trygon, raveners)
Edit: Forgot to add: No Finecast, or FW.

So here is a rough draft. It’s a little lighter on small guys than I like. It’s tempting just to click buttons in battlescribe, but knowing that each click is another box and a dozen guys on the paint bench might have stayed my hand. But if I need another 2 dozen gaunts, I’ll manage. Also slightly shaped by the fact I’ve got a few things kicking around (like 3 metal biovores, some gargs, and genestealers plus other random stuff) and the SC box looked like a good start, so I included all it’s units.



Haven’t given much thought to traits/relics/adaptations/etc.

Thoughts/advice?

Stealers need bigger units then 5.

You want more high powered shots at 1500 point. 6 hiveguards at least. Preferably one other thing as well (exoshrine being the usual suspect.)

10 gargoyles will do little besides grab objective, but that is fine.

Trygons are not that good. They die very easalybfor their points.

Screamer killers are better build as regular carnifexes. Nobody knows why they are taxed so high.

The ravwners and warrior squads will not do.much, but they are fone for tveir relative low cost.

Not that 9th edition mentions tanks can now shoot in melee, anf max number of shots vs hordes. What is a horde? Is it 10 models in a unit? In that case a lot of nid strategy will change. Gsc as well. Anyway, it will br easier to shoot down genestealer units. Exspect to see a rise in mortars, battle cannons, missile launchers and a decrease in big infantery units (stealers?) If the limit is 10 models warriors will finaly shine!

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Depending on the nid lists alpha strike potensial and the opposing heavy weapons T8 can be really good.

How many armies can and do fill up on lascannons these days after knights do do not dominate the meta? IG and SM might have lascannons. GSC ridge runners. With dark reapers being good few eldars run fire prisemns. Dark eldar lanses stops at 8 exceptbon flyer. (Poisen is stil +4 though.) As some one who regurerly play orks I can say you do not wanne be hurting T8 on 5+.

Maleseptor + T8 sounds great.

I'm stacking double Acid Spray Fex, Exocrine, Hierodule, and 2 Carnifexes, with Malanthrope and Maleceptor support. It does not go down easy. Smart use of Dermic Symbiosis, Prepared positions for army wide 2+ if you go second, Catalyst if you got first turn. It's a ball of pain when it hits. Tyrannofexes are that unit that I didn't know if I ever wanted to use it based on it's datasheet - until I started using it. Pull their weight every single game, and cover so many bases. Acid Spray ones are mandatory Kraken + AG though, they want to be in position ASAP. But that's Nidzilla in general imo.

As you know I'm all in with the nidzilla, but I gotta say it has a very low ceiling. Nids player usually play 80+ models and having 5 big dudes backed by only 40 bodies requires really to know what are you doing, I'm not surprised a lot of people dismiss the list. Deployment and knowing your secondaries are a must in order to be really treathening . Still the list is fun as hell to play.
One question though, does weapon beast works in overwatch too?

 Niiai wrote:
Stealers need bigger units then 5.

You want more high powered shots at 1500 point. 6 hiveguards at least. Preferably one other thing as well (exoshrine being the usual suspect.)

10 gargoyles will do little besides grab objective, but that is fine.

Trygons are not that good. They die very easalybfor their points.

Screamer killers are better build as regular carnifexes. Nobody knows why they are taxed so high.

The ravwners and warrior squads will not do.much, but they are fone for tveir relative low cost.

Not that 9th edition mentions tanks can now shoot in melee, anf max number of shots vs hordes. What is a horde? Is it 10 models in a unit? In that case a lot of nid strategy will change. Gsc as well. Anyway, it will br easier to shoot down genestealer units. Exspect to see a rise in mortars, battle cannons, missile launchers and a decrease in big infantery units (stealers?) If the limit is 10 models warriors will finaly shine!

Thanks for the feedback.

I love the look of the Trygon model. And it’s in the SC box, so the odds of me getting one are high. What’s the best way to build use it? Are Mawlocks better (they stuck me as expensive for a way to do some MWs on even turns)? I chose the prime for this list as the synapse seemed a good thing and I thought some fun could be had DS’in a troop up close. Would devourer temigants be better for that? Sort of like a guardian bomb for Eldar. My main concern with that is having to be within 3” of the Trygon and more then 9” from the enemy.

I was hoping to avoid the Exocrine. It does look like it would do a real good job of blowing things up. It might be fine sitting in a corner surrounded by some little buddy biovores. Similar look. I’ll have to see how he grows on me.

Why are there so many different flavors of carnefexes? You have the build-your-own entry, and then a whole bunch of bespoke ones? I went with the screamer killer mostly out of nostalgia, and it did what I think I needed more of in my list (run forward and kill big things) As there are 2 in a box, I went with Old One Eye, as he looked like he did the same, but better.

The Warriors I kept small with long range to keep back and provide synapse for the guard/biovores. And a little backfield support.
The Raveners I kept small because I liked the way they look, but didn’t think they would work very well. So mostly as a fluffy harassment/screening unit. Gargoyles the same. If I can get actual use out of them but going 2-3x the unit size, I’d consider it. As a marine player, I tend to think in MSU, which might not be the best way to approach ’nids.

From a theme POV, I like the concept of having multiple stages of evolution of the same line Gaunts - warriors - tyrant. Raveners - trygon. Makes a more cohesive looking army IMHO. Not that I’m opposed to the oddball unit.

My main opponent is going to be my son’s Salamanders. He’s still growing his army (and borrowing chunks of mine) but I’m not looking to have to face multiple knight lists, or Iron Hand parking lots. Just a LR, Pred, a couple of rhinos, maybe a dread. And that’s a mech heavy list for him.

9th is going to be some changes. The changes in detachments might be big. Looking at this list, I wanted more HQs, but decided to just stick to one simple battalion. If I have to pay CP to branch out, that could be bad. Where they draw the line of hordes and what it does is going to be interesting. If it’s max hits on variable weapons for units over a certain size, that could be nasty. But greater then 10, or 20? Honestly I’m more worried about a well issued bolter drill mowing down my units than flamers and frags.

Honestly I’m still pushing ideas around on this, so 9th will probably drop before I pull the trigger. Just looking to help define the shape of the army at this point. How much of what aspects is needed for a balanced list. And what sort of units work to get them.

 Nevelon wrote:

Spoiler:

 Niiai wrote:
Stealers need bigger units then 5.

You want more high powered shots at 1500 point. 6 hiveguards at least. Preferably one other thing as well (exoshrine being the usual suspect.)

10 gargoyles will do little besides grab objective, but that is fine.

Trygons are not that good. They die very easalybfor their points.

Screamer killers are better build as regular carnifexes. Nobody knows why they are taxed so high.

The ravwners and warrior squads will not do.much, but they are fone for tveir relative low cost.

Not that 9th edition mentions tanks can now shoot in melee, anf max number of shots vs hordes. What is a horde? Is it 10 models in a unit? In that case a lot of nid strategy will change. Gsc as well. Anyway, it will br easier to shoot down genestealer units. Exspect to see a rise in mortars, battle cannons, missile launchers and a decrease in big infantery units (stealers?) If the limit is 10 models warriors will finaly shine!

Thanks for the feedback.

I love the look of the Trygon model. And it’s in the SC box, so the odds of me getting one are high. What’s the best way to build use it? Are Mawlocks better (they stuck me as expensive for a way to do some MWs on even turns)? I chose the prime for this list as the synapse seemed a good thing and I thought some fun could be had DS’in a troop up close. Would devourer temigants be better for that? Sort of like a guardian bomb for Eldar. My main concern with that is having to be within 3” of the Trygon and more then 9” from the enemy.

I was hoping to avoid the Exocrine. It does look like it would do a real good job of blowing things up. It might be fine sitting in a corner surrounded by some little buddy biovores. Similar look. I’ll have to see how he grows on me.

Why are there so many different flavors of carnefexes? You have the build-your-own entry, and then a whole bunch of bespoke ones? I went with the screamer killer mostly out of nostalgia, and it did what I think I needed more of in my list (run forward and kill big things) As there are 2 in a box, I went with Old One Eye, as he looked like he did the same, but better.

The Warriors I kept small with long range to keep back and provide synapse for the guard/biovores. And a little backfield support.
The Raveners I kept small because I liked the way they look, but didn’t think they would work very well. So mostly as a fluffy harassment/screening unit. Gargoyles the same. If I can get actual use out of them but going 2-3x the unit size, I’d consider it. As a marine player, I tend to think in MSU, which might not be the best way to approach ’nids.

From a theme POV, I like the concept of having multiple stages of evolution of the same line Gaunts - warriors - tyrant. Raveners - trygon. Makes a more cohesive looking army IMHO. Not that I’m opposed to the oddball unit.

My main opponent is going to be my son’s Salamanders. He’s still growing his army (and borrowing chunks of mine) but I’m not looking to have to face multiple knight lists, or Iron Hand parking lots. Just a LR, Pred, a couple of rhinos, maybe a dread. And that’s a mech heavy list for him.

9th is going to be some changes. The changes in detachments might be big. Looking at this list, I wanted more HQs, but decided to just stick to one simple battalion. If I have to pay CP to branch out, that could be bad. Where they draw the line of hordes and what it does is going to be interesting. If it’s max hits on variable weapons for units over a certain size, that could be nasty. But greater then 10, or 20? Honestly I’m more worried about a well issued bolter drill mowing down my units than flamers and frags.

Honestly I’m still pushing ideas around on this, so 9th will probably drop before I pull the trigger. Just looking to help define the shape of the army at this point. How much of what aspects is needed for a balanced list. And what sort of units work to get them.

Trygon die very easy for their cost. T6, some wounds and 3+ save is not very good. 8th edition is full of good ranged weapons. In 8th edition things die very fast. So without good ranged attacks you need to make it into melee. How do you do that? A behemot 8" charge from reserves can try it, but it is very risky.

Use the adaptive trait to make a trygon S8 makes it better. But it is fragile. Making it the prime gives it character so it will can take relics, but baskets and eggs. It does transport troops though, but what troopa do you wanne transport?

The mawlock got better with the stratagem from BoB. But high T 3+ save and no offense is not good in 8th edition. On top of thia powerfists will ruin these models day.

Both alternative carnifexes has ekatra rules that are bad you pay exstra for. They are there for nostalgia reasons, but the rules and price points missed the mark. Regular melee fex with plasma scream is better if you wanne build a screamer killer. A pitty for screamer killer is a clasic!

Exoshrine shoots very well. Use slimer stratagem to make it damage 3. Very good.

Nids are so specialised just taking a bit of everything does not work so well currently.

If you are fighting your sons salamanders do not mind my advice. Keep it cassual and funn.

As for evolution of models all nids have 6 limbs, tail and head. And then they have just modefied those looks to the ekstreme. The models look great. For the love of good keep the paint scheme as simple and fast to execute as possible.

Just because I’m planning on playing casual doesn’t mean I don’t want to know how to make a tight and effective list. I can just dial it back and dilute it until I get to point where it is a fair match for the games I play. Thanks again for the feedback.

I would not have even contemplated starting a Nid army before contrast paints. I generally work at a 1 mini-a-week pace. So for a fluffy list, it would take me years to get something fieldable even for low point games.

 Emicrania wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Depending on the nid lists alpha strike potensial and the opposing heavy weapons T8 can be really good.

How many armies can and do fill up on lascannons these days after knights do do not dominate the meta? IG and SM might have lascannons. GSC ridge runners. With dark reapers being good few eldars run fire prisemns. Dark eldar lanses stops at 8 exceptbon flyer. (Poisen is stil +4 though.) As some one who regurerly play orks I can say you do not wanne be hurting T8 on 5+.

Maleseptor + T8 sounds great.

I'm stacking double Acid Spray Fex, Exocrine, Hierodule, and 2 Carnifexes, with Malanthrope and Maleceptor support. It does not go down easy. Smart use of Dermic Symbiosis, Prepared positions for army wide 2+ if you go second, Catalyst if you got first turn. It's a ball of pain when it hits. Tyrannofexes are that unit that I didn't know if I ever wanted to use it based on it's datasheet - until I started using it. Pull their weight every single game, and cover so many bases. Acid Spray ones are mandatory Kraken + AG though, they want to be in position ASAP. But that's Nidzilla in general imo.

As you know I'm all in with the nidzilla, but I gotta say it has a very low ceiling. Nids player usually play 80+ models and having 5 big dudes backed by only 40 bodies requires really to know what are you doing, I'm not surprised a lot of people dismiss the list. Deployment and knowing your secondaries are a must in order to be really treathening . Still the list is fun as hell to play.
One question though, does weapon beast works in overwatch too?

Yeah you said it, you gotta be smart with your in-game decisions, and using the infantry support wisely is key. No overwatch with weapon beast unfortunately.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Niiai wrote:
For the love of good keep the paint scheme as simple and fast to execute as possible.

Quoting for emphasis! Best thing I did was find a quick and easy color scheme. They are biological, you can get away with a lot of drybrushing etc and still look perfectly up to standard (whereas other armies may not get away with it so easily). If you want to get fancy pick up some Genestealer allies, there's tons of details on all their models. There's a ton of surface area on Tyranids whether you are playing hordes or monsters, so keep it simple imo or you'll never finish!

I did not find a quick paint scheme. :-(

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Depending on the nid lists alpha strike potensial and the opposing heavy weapons T8 can be really good.

How many armies can and do fill up on lascannons these days after knights do do not dominate the meta? IG and SM might have lascannons. GSC ridge runners. With dark reapers being good few eldars run fire prisemns. Dark eldar lanses stops at 8 exceptbon flyer. (Poisen is stil +4 though.) As some one who regurerly play orks I can say you do not wanne be hurting T8 on 5+.

Maleseptor + T8 sounds great.

I'm stacking double Acid Spray Fex, Exocrine, Hierodule, and 2 Carnifexes, with Malanthrope and Maleceptor support. It does not go down easy. Smart use of Dermic Symbiosis, Prepared positions for army wide 2+ if you go second, Catalyst if you got first turn. It's a ball of pain when it hits. Tyrannofexes are that unit that I didn't know if I ever wanted to use it based on it's datasheet - until I started using it. Pull their weight every single game, and cover so many bases. Acid Spray ones are mandatory Kraken + AG though, they want to be in position ASAP. But that's Nidzilla in general imo.

I really like what you are trying to do here. Any viability in your opinion in swapping out the Hierodule for Trygons? I don't have a Hierodule....

 Nevelon wrote:
This might be the wrong time, with a new edition looming, but I’ve got a little bit of my tax return earmarked for new projects and was thinking of getting a small force of Nids to act as a foil for my Ultras. The problem is that they are a lot different from my other armies, so it’s hard to get a gauge on how to set things up. Like how much ranged AV do you need, or how much can be done in CC. This is not intended for competitive play, just something that can hold its own at the FLGS.

A few things:
I’m not a fan of a lot of the Big Bug kits. Exception is the Trygon. I do like a lot of the mid range stuff like carnefexes, tyrants, Zoes. And the little bugs
I’d like to build a TAC list that feels like a “classic” swarm. Lots of little gribblies, with a few big guys backing them up.
I like the look of the serpentine nids (hence the Trygon, raveners)
Edit: Forgot to add: No Finecast, or FW.

So here is a rough draft. It’s a little lighter on small guys than I like. It’s tempting just to click buttons in battlescribe, but knowing that each click is another box and a dozen guys on the paint bench might have stayed my hand. But if I need another 2 dozen gaunts, I’ll manage. Also slightly shaped by the fact I’ve got a few things kicking around (like 3 metal biovores, some gargs, and genestealers plus other random stuff) and the SC box looked like a good start, so I included all it’s units.

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) [83 PL, 1,441pts] ++

+ HQ +

Broodlord [8 PL, 115pts]

Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 223pts]: Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Scything Talons, Warlord, Wings

Old One Eye [10 PL, 200pts]

+ Troops +

Genestealers [4 PL, 60pts]
. 5x Genestealer: 5x Rending Claws

Hormagaunts [9 PL, 120pts]
. 24x Hormagaunt: 24x Scything Talons

Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 82pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Boneswords, Venom Cannon

+ Elites +

Hive Guard [7 PL, 129pts]
. 3x Hive Guard (Impaler): 3x Impaler Cannon

+ Fast Attack +

Gargoyles [3 PL, 50pts]
. 10x Gargoyle: 10x Blinding Venom, 10x Fleshborer

Raveners [4 PL, 69pts]
. Ravener: Deathspitter, 2x Scything Talons
. Ravener: Deathspitter, 2x Scything Talons
. Ravener: Deathspitter, 2x Scything Talons

+ Heavy Support +

Biovores [6 PL, 120pts]: Show Spore Mine Rules
. 3x Biovore: 3x Spore Mine Launcher

Screamer-Killers [6 PL, 105pts]
. Screamer-Killer: 2x Monstrous Scything Talons

Trygon Prime [10 PL, 168pts]: 3x Massive Scything Talons, Biostatic Rattle

++ Total: [83 PL, 1,441pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Haven’t given much thought to traits/relics/adaptations/etc.

Thoughts/advice?

Well, if you like the snakey Nids I'd suggest Jopmangandr so you can tunnel in units. Jorm also likes shooty Carnifexen. If you want CC anti vehicle I currently like Acid maws. But with a new edition right around the corner, there is no knowing what will be good/better. A decnt amount of geibblies is almost always worth having in a Nid army, so it is unlikely you'll regret painting them. Good luck, and welcome to the Hive Mind!

babelfish wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Depending on the nid lists alpha strike potensial and the opposing heavy weapons T8 can be really good.

How many armies can and do fill up on lascannons these days after knights do do not dominate the meta? IG and SM might have lascannons. GSC ridge runners. With dark reapers being good few eldars run fire prisemns. Dark eldar lanses stops at 8 exceptbon flyer. (Poisen is stil +4 though.) As some one who regurerly play orks I can say you do not wanne be hurting T8 on 5+.

Maleseptor + T8 sounds great.

I'm stacking double Acid Spray Fex, Exocrine, Hierodule, and 2 Carnifexes, with Malanthrope and Maleceptor support. It does not go down easy. Smart use of Dermic Symbiosis, Prepared positions for army wide 2+ if you go second, Catalyst if you got first turn. It's a ball of pain when it hits. Tyrannofexes are that unit that I didn't know if I ever wanted to use it based on it's datasheet - until I started using it. Pull their weight every single game, and cover so many bases. Acid Spray ones are mandatory Kraken + AG though, they want to be in position ASAP. But that's Nidzilla in general imo.

I really like what you are trying to do here. Any viability in your opinion in swapping out the Hierodule for Trygons? I don't have a Hierodule....

There's tons of viability in swapping out the Hierodule, I'm not sure if Trygon is the ideal placement. I view a good part of it's cost in the ability effectively drop pod a full unit of troops as it comes in, and that has no real play in Nidzilla. On the flip side, a couple of Mawlocs are a similar model that are probably even better. Coming down on alternating turns with their new strat and either drawing fire with their cheap wounds, or threatening a charge if they don't reposition, has a lot of hidden value.

TBH if I wasn't running Hierodule, I would probably pick a Toxicrene (who are stupidly underrated) back up, and a Swarmlord over one of my Neurothropes. That leaves points to either grab a Mawloc, double down on the Toxicrene approach which can win games later on, or maybe even find points for another Exocrine somewhere (or a Trygon if you so insisted, it's not terrible for sure especially with Monstrous Size). Dropping another Neurothrope for an One Eye is a great choice there as well actually now that the role isn't covered by the Hierodule.

A Smite/Psychic Scream, Voracious Ammo, Kraken Camo relic dakka Flyrant would also be a nice choice, for -2 to hit, -1 to strength, 4++ mobile threat that pings off 3D3 mortal wounds a turn, every turn, for likely a lot of turns, ON TOP OF his regular 3+ BS dakka.

Nidzilla has some cool options, I enjoy the finesse of the Hierodule and get a lot of out of him, but he's not mandatory at all.

A whole edition without a single nid model relase then... I have a large army of gen cult, but they are NOT nids.

Anyone know how that was possible ? Any other army got that silent treatment from GW ?

Do we need more models? It is hard pressed to come up with a role we do not have.

Perhaps a transport or a sniper model? But I would rather have good rules and balanced points for the models we already have.

 Niiai wrote:
Do we need more models? It is hard pressed to come up with a role we do not have.

Perhaps a transport or a sniper model? But I would rather have good rules and balanced points for the models we already have.

Stockholm syndrom hah hah. 6th and 7th nids were rubbish, we were pretty good during almost all 8th Ed so we don’t even want any new model

Oh we do need that non FWorld LOW though

 addnid wrote:
A whole edition without a single nid model relase then... I have a large army of gen cult, but they are NOT nids.

Anyone know how that was possible ? Any other army got that silent treatment from GW ?

Honestly Tryanids are in a pretty good spot. There's a few outliers like pyro/biovoires that are so certain to get a duel kit its surprising its not happened (very surprised doing PA that we didn't get one). But overall Tyranids have a pretty modern (or stands up well in modern) army.

This is not tactics this is speculations, so it should not really be here.

Some models can et updated models. They are good but old. (Carnifex & Stealers. Others.)

Some could get plastic models (lictor, deathleaper, biovore, pyrovore.)

Unit roles we do not have:

Mobile trasport.
Sniper. (Would be nice with a lictor/sniper/deathleaper kit.)
Terain.
Flyer with flying rules instead of clumpy monsters with wings like we do now.

We alreayd have so much redudancy, many different odd melee monsters. I would prefer good rules for the once we have.

Isn't the sniper Hiveguard and isn't the transport the tervigon (which transports only gaunts) along with the Tyrannofex. A terrain feature could happen - some nice spores and capillary towers.

 Overread wrote:
Isn't the sniper Hiveguard and isn't the transport the tervigon (which transports only gaunts) along with the Tyrannofex. A terrain feature could happen - some nice spores and capillary towers.

Hive Guard can't snipe characters.

 Overread wrote:

 addnid wrote:
A whole edition without a single nid model relase then... I have a large army of gen cult, but they are NOT nids.

Anyone know how that was possible ? Any other army got that silent treatment from GW ?

Honestly Tryanids are in a pretty good spot. There's a few outliers like pyro/biovoires that are so certain to get a duel kit its surprising its not happened (very surprised doing PA that we didn't get one). But overall Tyranids have a pretty modern (or stands up well in modern) army.

Yeah, we've got a pretty diverse range and it's almost all in plastic.

I'd really like them to figure how to make Tyranids decent again It feels like every since the 4th edition Dex they have struggled to balance the book both internally and externally. It feels like we had that one time when triple flyrants were good, but that's about been the highlight.