Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured

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**Nitro Zeus**

shogun wrote:
Nitro Zeus wrote:
Carnikang wrote:
Why Terms instead of Rippers?
At least in place of the smaller units.

Easier to hide, comparable wounds, cheaper?

I'm running Kronos with 3 Exocrines and 6 Hive Guard. Rippers are nice but I really need to dedicate a lot of my army to supporting that investment. 90 bodies is right where I'll like to be on that one. I really want to blank out and control as much of the board as possible. This isn't Nidzilla with Dakkafex and Tyrannofex who can push their own way through enemy infantry problems. If I feel like I need less after playtesting though, I'll definitely swap a unit of Termagants for Rippers.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Especially with everything being able to outflank, covering the back and middle of the board is gonna be important

With the new 'units with 6+ models need to be in coherency with 2 models'- rule, I think I'am gonna pick rippers instead of gaunts. The footprint is almost the same and at least the rippers can deepstrike.

@Nitro: What do you think about the Scythed Hierodule now? I think it's got a lot more potential in 9th. It could even outflank the second turn to make sure it got al the bonuses (Catalyst etc..).

interesting point on the Rippers when you take into account coherency. One problem is they also take a lot more pounding from multi-damage weapons, and with Termagants you can just rest easy that they have to chew through them the old fashioned way. But I might grab one anyway.

Not sold on the Hierodule in 9th. 3CP just to take him is rough. 3 more to outflank him is even rougher. Its at 470 pts now too.... that's gone from a 5th of a list to a quarter of a list basically. Malanthrope aura is so much weaker now that it does nothing against Heavy weapons that have to move to get an angle, and doesn't stack with the Horror (which is a similar story).... Outflanking Hierodule might be an interesting experiment but his biggest strength is his movespeed anyway and the fact that he could dip in and out of combats and back to safety and is active from the opening turns - outflanking him just spends CP to waste all that.

**shogun**

Nitro Zeus wrote:
shogun wrote:
Nitro Zeus wrote:
Carnikang wrote:
Why Terms instead of Rippers?
At least in place of the smaller units.

Easier to hide, comparable wounds, cheaper?

I'm running Kronos with 3 Exocrines and 6 Hive Guard. Rippers are nice but I really need to dedicate a lot of my army to supporting that investment. 90 bodies is right where I'll like to be on that one. I really want to blank out and control as much of the board as possible. This isn't Nidzilla with Dakkafex and Tyrannofex who can push their own way through enemy infantry problems. If I feel like I need less after playtesting though, I'll definitely swap a unit of Termagants for Rippers.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Especially with everything being able to outflank, covering the back and middle of the board is gonna be important

With the new 'units with 6+ models need to be in coherency with 2 models'- rule, I think I'am gonna pick rippers instead of gaunts. The footprint is almost the same and at least the rippers can deepstrike.

@Nitro: What do you think about the Scythed Hierodule now? I think it's got a lot more potential in 9th. It could even outflank the second turn to make sure it got al the bonuses (Catalyst etc..).

interesting point on the Rippers when you take into account coherency. One problem is they also take a lot more pounding from multi-damage weapons, and with Termagants you can just rest easy that they have to chew through them the old fashioned way. But I might grab one anyway.

I get that, got to see how it play's out. I think I like it when the multi damage weapons are shooting at my rippers instead of my big beasties.

Nitro Zeus wrote:
Not sold on the Hierodule in 9th. 3CP just to take him is rough. 3 more to outflank him is even rougher. Its at 470 pts now too.... that's gone from a 5th of a list to a quarter of a list basically. Malanthrope aura is so much weaker now that it does nothing against Heavy weapons that have to move to get an angle, and doesn't stack with the Horror (which is a similar story).... Outflanking Hierodule might be an interesting experiment but his biggest strength is his movespeed anyway and the fact that he could dip in and out of combats and back to safety and is active from the opening turns - outflanking him just spends CP to waste all that.

I believe the Hierodule talons are +0 points now? Isn't it 410 points total? If it is 470 points then i would drop it for sure... I think I like the ' outflank' option just to be sure to get the Catalyst going. And also the flexibility for fielding it left or right. If is more likely to survive the amount of enemy shooting because every army is more expensive to field so it will be like facing a 1800 point (8th) army.

It all depends on how the meta is going to evolve. Could be a point sink or a great battering ram.

**Nitro Zeus**

If those gun's aren't shooting at the Hierodule they don't just disappear, they are tearing your other stuff to shreds instead, while the Hierodule sits on the sidelines. Hierodule worked thanks to a combination of threat saturation in Nidzilla, stacking defensive buffs on him / minus to hit on key threats to him, and by ensuring he ended his turns either safely locked in combat, or beneath a Malanthrope umbrella. He was an active threat from the opening turns which allowed you to leverage more from the rest of the Nidzilla, or just get away with murdering stuff and jumping back to safety. Spending 3 CP to outflank just completely defeats the purpose of the unit, imo. Especially since he has a good chance of not even making the charge from outflank, when before you could use his speed to all but guarantee it.

At 410 pts I may reconsider. But honestly outflanking two Stone Crushers or even just playing Old One Eye, is probably better for what you're trying to do.

**Spoletta**

I'm thinking that the optimal squad size for warriors is going to be 6, to grab that second heavy weapon.

Sure, some could say that in that way you are exposing yourself to maxed d3 weapons, but it's actually not true. Weapons are resolved one at a time, so if the opponent shoots you with 20 missile pods, he gets to max those shots only until the first warrior is gone.

You only pay in terms of keepeing coherency until you lose a bug.

**Spreelock**

Hello, i'm asking for advice about Leviathan hive fleet, what is the most competitive build available for them? I know that the Kraken genestealers are very good (and i've played before with Behemoth), but for fluff reason i'm intrested about Leviathan. And tournaments in my local area does not usually allow Forge World models.

**JNAProductions**

babelfish wrote:
I was thinking about outflankimg Exocrines and it occured to me that with with Lurking Maws having no max ramge you fould use a backfield Neurothrope to give an outflanking Jormungandr Exocrine rerolls to hit the turn he lands.

I don't think it is worth building a list around, but if you are already running Jormungandr for something like 2+ Warriors or 'fexes it's a nice perk.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
It occurs to me that you can do the same with Shock Guard. 6d3 average is 12 shots, 9 hits, reroll for 2 more hits. 11 hits is 5.5 mortals plus whatver the S7 AP-1 d3 gun does. Double tapping that expects to kill most non-Knight armor in the game, at the cost of 3 CP and being Jormungandr.

Erm... How do you get 9 hits from 12 shots before rerolls? It should be 8.

Average number of hits is 10.67, so your end result isn't really wrong, I just noticed that that was wrong.

**Niiai**

Spreelock wrote:
Hello, i'm asking for advice about Leviathan hive fleet, what is the most competitive build available for them? I know that the Kraken genestealers are very good (and i've played before with Behemoth), but for fluff reason i'm intrested about Leviathan. And tournaments in my local area does not usually allow Forge World models.

First of, everything is up in the air. The double change of rules and point increase means we do not know.

I have runn some leviathan. Gaunt blockades are more anoying then usual (as they do not die as expected, and of course all tyranids are fearless when done right.)

The real treat with leviathan though is in my opinion warriors. Warriors are better under leviathan then others (depending if you can get cover or not) but 3 damage weapons do not like the 6+++.

The stratagem is also very good if you manage to find a flying model. (Hive tyrant, gargoyles and neoronthropes comes to mind.) It is very point effective.

Leviathan can not hold a candle to kraken stealers. But are stealers so good in 9th? Usually kraken stealers used to lock you in with 40 stealers, swarmlord and broodlord. You do not need to lock in to that at leviathan.

**torgoch**

babelfish wrote:
Niiai wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
babelfish wrote:
6 outflanking Zoanthropes double smiting for 8+ mortal wounds could be useful.

We already know that the double smite is getting fixed, I wouldn't bank on that.

What is your source of this information?

Apparently some of the playtesters said that it was going to be changed/FAQ'd.

I don't think you really need a source for that. It's pretty likely to happen based on past behaviour.... but if you want to buy and paint six new zoeys, fill your pockets

I'm looking forward to this new edition. 3rd and 4th edition, with their LoS blocking terrain were much more games of manouvre - assuming you had any terrain as boards back then were notoriously empty - and the new rules send us much more in that direction. Compared to that world, fire-power is more destructive, but tyranid pieces are also faster. So I am optimistic there is more opportunity to play the game and not the list.

**Spreelock**

Niiai wrote:
Spreelock wrote:
Hello, i'm asking for advice about Leviathan hive fleet, what is the most competitive build available for them? I know that the Kraken genestealers are very good (and i've played before with Behemoth), but for fluff reason i'm intrested about Leviathan. And tournaments in my local area does not usually allow Forge World models.

First of, everything is up in the air. The double change of rules and point increase means we do not know.

I have runn some leviathan. Gaunt blockades are more anoying then usual (as they do not die as expected, and of course all tyranids are fearless when done right.)

The real treat with leviathan though is in my opinion warriors. Warriors are better under leviathan then others (depending if you can get cover or not) but 3 damage weapons do not like the 6+++.

The stratagem is also very good if you manage to find a flying model. (Hive tyrant, gargoyles and neoronthropes comes to mind.) It is very point effective.

Leviathan can not hold a candle to kraken stealers. But are stealers so good in 9th? Usually kraken stealers used to lock you in with 40 stealers, swarmlord and broodlord. You do not need to lock in to that at leviathan.

Hey, thanks. I'll have to look into those Warriors again, their stratagem is just highly situational (the Leviathan one), but their psychic power seems decent. I was thinking about swarmlord, with support of tyrant guard and venomthropes.

**Niiai**

Spreelock wrote:
Niiai wrote:
Spreelock wrote:
Hello, i'm asking for advice about Leviathan hive fleet, what is the most competitive build available for them? I know that the Kraken genestealers are very good (and i've played before with Behemoth), but for fluff reason i'm intrested about Leviathan. And tournaments in my local area does not usually allow Forge World models.

First of, everything is up in the air. The double change of rules and point increase means we do not know.

I have runn some leviathan. Gaunt blockades are more anoying then usual (as they do not die as expected, and of course all tyranids are fearless when done right.)

The real treat with leviathan though is in my opinion warriors. Warriors are better under leviathan then others (depending if you can get cover or not) but 3 damage weapons do not like the 6+++.

The stratagem is also very good if you manage to find a flying model. (Hive tyrant, gargoyles and neoronthropes comes to mind.) It is very point effective.

Leviathan can not hold a candle to kraken stealers. But are stealers so good in 9th? Usually kraken stealers used to lock you in with 40 stealers, swarmlord and broodlord. You do not need to lock in to that at leviathan.

Hey, thanks. I'll have to look into those Warriors again, their stratagem is just highly situational (the Leviathan one), but their psychic power seems decent. I was thinking about swarmlord, with support of tyrant guard and venomthropes.

Leviathan has a psykick power? It is not a good one.

**Spreelock**

Yeah, I think it was called hive Nexus, which boosts all synapse. I'll guess it's not that useful if the only synapse are tyrants (as they already have 18").

**Niiai**

If you are in leviathan your usual synapse are flyrants, warriors, alpha warriors, Neuronthropes. Coming out if 9th you might wanne do zoanthropes.

Besides babysiting hive guard synapse is not a problem for leviathan.

**babelfish**

JNAProductions wrote:
babelfish wrote:
I was thinking about outflankimg Exocrines and it occured to me that with with Lurking Maws having no max ramge you fould use a backfield Neurothrope to give an outflanking Jormungandr Exocrine rerolls to hit the turn he lands.

I don't think it is worth building a list around, but if you are already running Jormungandr for something like 2+ Warriors or 'fexes it's a nice perk.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
It occurs to me that you can do the same with Shock Guard. 6d3 average is 12 shots, 9 hits, reroll for 2 more hits. 11 hits is 5.5 mortals plus whatver the S7 AP-1 d3 gun does. Double tapping that expects to kill most non-Knight armor in the game, at the cost of 3 CP and being Jormungandr.
Erm... How do you get 9 hits from 12 shots before rerolls? It should be 8.

Average number of hits is 10.67, so your end result isn't really wrong, I just noticed that that was wrong.

I drink beer before doing math, as is tradition. Also, whoops.

**catbarf**

I've played a couple of games in 9th, and have found Warriors to be unexpectedly effective. The multi-role idea where they paid for both shooting and melee ability was a detriment in 8th, but in 9th it makes them a lot better at controlling the midfield- with Deathspitters and Boneswords, 3x S5AP-1 shots + 4x S4AP-2 swings apiece does a fair bit of damage.

They're also the best candidate for running as Leviathan. Because of how FNPs on multi-wound models interact with multi-damage weapons, Leviathan actually gives them a 42% durability upgrade against 3 Damage weapons rather than the 20% you would normally expect. Combine with Enhanced Resistance and Unyielding Chitin, preferably while in cover and/or obscured, and they become quite difficult to remove for their cost.

I'm probably going to keep running mine in broods of 9 (although I usually play Kraken). The extra damage from Blast is annoying, but Venom Cannons are probably our most versatile weapon, and with them now being Blast as well they're a must-have IMO.

From what I've seen it looks like the Scythed Hierodule is 470pts now (no free Talons), and I agree with Nitro Zeus that between the core rule changes and CP cost it's basically dead in the water. Here's hoping for better rules/points in the new IA.

**Spreelock**

Okay, so multiwound models are way to go, but should I focus on that or is the swarm any viable option? Like, gaunts and genestealers? I'd like to include some cheap chaff, but if that's not competitive, i'll have to re-consider my strategy.

**JNAProductions**

babelfish wrote:
JNAProductions wrote:
babelfish wrote:
I was thinking about outflankimg Exocrines and it occured to me that with with Lurking Maws having no max ramge you fould use a backfield Neurothrope to give an outflanking Jormungandr Exocrine rerolls to hit the turn he lands.

I don't think it is worth building a list around, but if you are already running Jormungandr for something like 2+ Warriors or 'fexes it's a nice perk.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
It occurs to me that you can do the same with Shock Guard. 6d3 average is 12 shots, 9 hits, reroll for 2 more hits. 11 hits is 5.5 mortals plus whatver the S7 AP-1 d3 gun does. Double tapping that expects to kill most non-Knight armor in the game, at the cost of 3 CP and being Jormungandr.
Erm... How do you get 9 hits from 12 shots before rerolls? It should be 8.

Average number of hits is 10.67, so your end result isn't really wrong, I just noticed that that was wrong.

I drink beer before doing math, as is tradition. Also, whoops.

Eh, no biggie. It's easy to make math mistakes-just didn't want it to go uncorrected.

**pinecone77**

Spreelock wrote:
Okay, so multiwound models are way to go, but should I focus on that or is the swarm any viable option? Like, gaunts and genestealers? I'd like to include some cheap chaff, but if that's not competitive, i'll have to re-consider my strategy.

I don't think chaff is without value, if anything screens are more useful. But the chaff likely needs to be in smaller batches. 11+ is very weak to blast, so I would suggest 10x in the gaunts then run MSU Warriors for full synapse coverage. Then add Big Bugs as you wish.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think both x3, and x6 Warrior Broods should work well. a big x9 might work for a hammer strike unit.

**Niiai**

What are you chaffing against? Only orks and very select unit charge nids.

**princeyg**

Niiai wrote:
What are you chaffing against? Only orks and very select unit charge nids.

I don't think its a case of chaff as defensive fodder, more that flooding the board with 8 or 9 10 man units of cheap gaunts gives a big board control advantage.

Yes, each individual unit is easy to kill, but with terrain and missions, blocking out that number of bodies is going to be difficult.

I think the definition of "horde" is going to change from big units of 30 to lots and lots of small units of 10, frankly i think brigades are where nid will be in 9th.

On that subject, I personally think multiple small units of gargoyles will be effective for early game objective grabbing/getting in the way.

**Nitro Zeus**

Niiai wrote:
What are you chaffing against? Only orks and very select unit charge nids.

Pretty much every Space Marine army will drop a Smash Captain into an Exocrine with ease. Will be able to take out multiple bugs in the first turn in the right Chapter too if they are too close to each other, and more the turn after if you don’t have an immediate answer. Chaff is your defence against this. It’s also how we score turn after turn by continuing to replace obsec bodies on objectives as well as blocking up the field for enemy movement. And it lets us force fallbacks on strong units if opportunities arise which is good.

**shogun**

catbarf wrote:
From what I've seen it looks like the Scythed Hierodule is 470pts now (no free Talons)

Can you confirm the source of this info (or anybody else)? I've seen the Scythed Hierodule going up from 350 to 410 but the talons became free as far as I've seen in the sources I've checked..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35XCkqzs15o

massive scything talons at: 40.52

**Nitro Zeus**

"pair of massive Scythed Talons" is different I believe right? Not sure either tho shogun

**shogun**

Nitro Zeus wrote:
"pair of massive Scythed Talons" is different I believe right? Not sure either tho shogun

Ah, yea that could be it. It is indeed a different category.

**babelfish**

Niiai wrote:
What are you chaffing against? Only orks and very select unit charge nids.

Smash captain's, presumably.

**Nitro Zeus**

updated my list

++ Brigade Detachment -4CP (Tyranids) [109 PL, -1CP, 2,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Hive Fleet: Kronos

+ Stratagems +

Progeny of the Hive [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Neurothrope [4 PL, 95pts]: Power: Symbiostorm, Resonance Barb, Warlord

Old One Eye [10 PL, 220pts]

Tyranid Prime [6 PL, 85pts]: Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Deathspitter

+ Troops +

Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 36pts]
. 3x Ripper Swarm: 3x Claws and Teeth

Termagants [3 PL, 50pts]
. 10x Termagant (Fleshborer): 10x Fleshborer

Termagants [3 PL, 50pts]
. 10x Termagant (Fleshborer): 10x Fleshborer

Termagants [3 PL, 50pts]
. 10x Termagant (Fleshborer): 10x Fleshborer

Termagants [3 PL, 50pts]
. 10x Termagant (Fleshborer): 10x Fleshborer

Termagants [3 PL, 50pts]
. 10x Termagant (Fleshborer): 10x Fleshborer

Termagants [3 PL, 50pts]
. 10x Termagant (Fleshborer): 10x Fleshborer

Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 94pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Barbed Strangler, Boneswords

Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 94pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Barbed Strangler, Boneswords

+ Elites +

Hive Guard [13 PL, 300pts]
. 6x Hive Guard (Impaler): 6x Impaler Cannon

Pyrovores [2 PL, 28pts]: Pyrovore

Pyrovores [2 PL, 28pts]: Pyrovore

+ Fast Attack +

Gargoyles [3 PL, 70pts]
. 10x Gargoyle: 10x Blinding Venom, 10x Fleshborer

Gargoyles [3 PL, 70pts]
. 10x Gargoyle: 10x Blinding Venom, 10x Fleshborer

Gargoyles [3 PL, 70pts]
. 10x Gargoyle: 10x Blinding Venom, 10x Fleshborer

+ Heavy Support +

Exocrine [11 PL, 170pts]
. Adaptive Physiology: Dermic Symbiosis

Exocrine [11 PL, 170pts]
. Adaptive Physiology: Dermic Symbiosis

Exocrine [11 PL, 170pts]

++ Total: [109 PL, -1CP, 2,000pts] ++

a couple of MSU Stealers is gonna be a good option but a few Warriors I feel are more versatile, perform the same role, give me back-up Synapse, and take (most hits) a little better. Lets me save points, expand to a battalion, and break all the Termagant squads into 10 mans. Two Pyrovores cost feth all, outflank for free, and thanks to 10" flamer, deploy within burn range which is kinda cool now. Thinking of even grabbing a third one instead of the Rippers. Gotta wait till the webstore restocks Exocrine but I'm excited to playtest this.

**Emicrania**

The nidzilla is dead than now uh

**Spoletta**

Warriors escorting pyrovores to the midlle points seems like a really good strategy.

I will try 2x6 warriors escorting 2x3 pyrovores.

**Nitro Zeus**

Why not outflank them? They are pissall PL and they can outflank into flamer range the turn they arrive!

**Spoletta**

Because they are infantry with 4W T4 4+ for 28 points. They are the best health for your bucks to put on a point.

And they are dangerous if you get close.

**Carnikang**

Spoletta wrote:
Because they are infantry with 4W T4 4+ for 28 points. They are the best health for your bucks to put on a point.

And they are dangerous if you get close.

I dunno, I kind of agree on outflanking them. I've used them as really cheap and dangerous suicide units before in 8th because of their cost. They're a decent distraction, and if you outflank them to threaten a board edge, they can easily make an opponent thing twice about running an infantry unit after that point you have rippers/terms/warriors on.

They may just have a really versatile position in the new edition though. Time will tell.