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Yes people still hate ultramarines. For most of them it's because they hate marines in general. They hate people that play marines, they hate when marines get a book or a model, they hate when marines get an FAQ, they hate when people (rightfully) suggest that 1 wound power armor guys aren't very good anymore, they hate when marine players dare to suggest that they're not the most privileged army in the game... And some of these expand their hatred to everything imperial.

Some people in the hobby are super-toxic and have grown to irrationally hate certain factions, and marines tend to be the most common target for them, with eldar and tau right behind. So yes, people still hate ultras because they're marines.

 DANGEROUS DICK LONGFELLOW wrote:
Nobody plays them by me. They're considered the clownshoes of the entire hobby.

I think we can put this in the "Hates Ultra because it's cool to hate Ultras" bin.

 niv-mizzet wrote:
Yes people still hate ultramarines. For most of them it's because they hate marines in general.

No, I think most people who hate Ultramarines are other marine players who're annoyed by the Ultras hogging the limelight.

 Crimson wrote:

 niv-mizzet wrote:
Yes people still hate ultramarines. For most of them it's because they hate marines in general.

No, I think most people who hate Ultramarines are other marine players who're annoyed by the Ultras hogging the limelight.

^-this-^

I have seen far more marine haters than ultras-specific haters, although you do have to keep in mind when you see an ultra hater, that there is a lot of overlap. They might be a marine hater just mentioning ultras at that specific moment.

I was once out of town at a game store event and saw a guy come over asking about the game, saying he was already looking into a couple armies. Guy who was playing sisters at the event was talking to him. The newbie mentioned he was thinking of starting with dark angels and the other guy just turned around and walked away with a scowl. Me and my opponent who were close enough to hear and witness were both like "wtf?"

 niv-mizzet wrote:
I have seen far more marine haters than ultras-specific haters, although you do have to keep in mind when you see an ultra hater, that there is a lot of overlap. They might be a marine hater just mentioning ultras at that specific moment.

I was once out of town at a game store event and saw a guy come over asking about the game, saying he was already looking into a couple armies. Guy who was playing sisters at the event was talking to him. The newbie mentioned he was thinking of starting with dark angels and the other guy just turned around and walked away with a scowl. Me and my opponent who were close enough to hear and witness were both like "wtf?"

Wow that is some.. extreme hatred going on right there. Typically the most is the typical overused jokes that just get rehashed for the millionth time.

 niv-mizzet wrote:
They hate people that play marines, they hate when marines get a book or a model

And boy oh boy do us irrational cartoon strawmen of infinite hate get a lot of opportunities to feel *that* particular emotion!

Has nobody heard of the expression "familiarity breeds contempt"? I started out feeling about marines the same way I feel about Tau, Tyranids, Necrons, etc - that there are some aspects of them I think are cool, their schtick is interesting and original, there are some characters I like, but...eh, they're a little samey, I don't think I could paint a whole army of them, there are just other factions I like more and I think I'll stick to them.

And now, you may not notice, but there are whole periods of 4-6 months pretty darn frequently where the only 40k content GW is putting out is for Marine factions. Note that by January, we will have 2/3 of the 15 imperium and chaos codexes released and 1/4 of the 8 xenos codexes. Couple that with their massive popularity with the playerbase, and yeah, occasionally someone's going to lose interest when someone starts talking about how they play Space Marines, or show more interest when they mention a different army that nobody else has. Probably half my games I end up facing off against some kind of power armor, so yeah, I'm not going to say I don't give non-PA preferential treatment when looking for something to play versus.

It's really funny to me that there are folks in this thread advocating that it is "cool" to hate space marines, as if the majority of the playerbase doesn't play some form of power armored faction at this point. There's enough of a market for marines to spin off a whole separate game with models that are twice as expensive. How is it not "the cool thing" to like marines?

There's certainly some overlap between Space Marine hate and Ultramarine hate, but ultimately there are some significant differences as well.

Space Marines get hate because they're by far the most supported faction, with the most models, the most lore, the most starter set presence, the most art, the most resculpts and they get their codices first. If you play anything other than Space Marines you get the (justified) feeling you're being shafted, which can easily turn into SM hate.

I'm not very fond of them myself, though I would never speak ill of someone because they play Marines or turn down a game because it was against Marines. One of my friends who got me into 40k plays SM, and I've helped him with both building and painting. He thinks they're cool, i prefer my Eldar. No hard feelings.

The Ultramarine hate is, as has been said before in this thread, often found in people who play non-ultra chapters, presumably because the UM hog all the glory. They're on the packaging, the codex, in the art, in the lore, and for some models (that aren't UM specific) you get only UM transfers. On top of this there's the ever-present Guilliman, the infamous Spiritual Liege comment and the fact that they're the chosen chapter of young kids who adhere to the packaging's colours. They're the mainstream of the mainstream, and you see them all the time whether you want to or not.

I do think it's a good idea to have one chapter being depicted on the packaging, it makes it clearer which models belong to the same army for the prospective buyer as well as making it more coherent and pleasing to the eye. They could probably ease up a bit on the UM hyping a biy though.

I used to hate Ultramarines, but now that I have Robby and a bunch of Primaris lying around I'm going to go to the dark side once I'm done with my DG army

 Crimson wrote:

 niv-mizzet wrote:
Yes people still hate ultramarines. For most of them it's because they hate marines in general.

No, I think most people who hate Ultramarines are other marine players who're annoyed by the Ultras hogging the limelight.

The irony here being that SM are by far the largest 'limelight' faction.

No army has had more beneficial retcons than smurfs, I mean it's taken a team of BL authors and ward to get them to there current position of being famous for missing the Heresy and immediately threatening a new civil war before big E was cold to get there own way.

I like to think that what burns ward's shriveled little black soul is that despite his fan spank level fluff the Smurfs have ultimately achieved little of note in the imperiums history.

Girly man achieved zilch real accomplishments in the heresy but say what you like about cowering in fear and starting your own mini heresy the Smurfs always had loo roll.

All the major historical events for The imperium,The Beast, Armaggedon, the Vandian heresy and so on and so forth all have a conspicuous absence of smurfs who spend most of the time cowering in there home system. Except that time they awakened the necrons by accident.

But I don't begrudge smurfs players there choice it's an easy paint scheme and a lot of fluff to work from on chapter structure and stuff oh and they make good nid bait.

Actually, I haven't read the whole thread and I'm sure someone has mentioned this. But now that SeanDrake brings up Matt Ward, HE is the reason most people hate Ultramarines. His codex fluff was so insufferable and cringe-inducing that only an exterminatus can wipe away the collective trauma we all experienced.

 Luciferian wrote:
Actually, I haven't read the whole thread and I'm sure someone has mentioned this. But now that SeanDrake brings up Matt Ward, HE is the reason most people hate Ultramarines. His codex fluff was so insufferable and cringe-inducing that only an exterminatus can wipe away the collective trauma we all experienced.

Or ultimately, it's just part of a history that people don't want to let go.

People hated the Ultramarines long before Ward, they just tried to justify it afterwords.

SeanDrake wrote:
No army has had more beneficial retcons than smurfs, I mean it's taken a team of BL authors and ward to get them to there current position of being famous for missing the Heresy and immediately threatening a new civil war before big E was cold to get there own way.

I like to think that what burns ward's shriveled little black soul is that despite his fan spank level fluff the Smurfs have ultimately achieved little of note in the imperiums history.

Girly man achieved zilch real accomplishments in the heresy but say what you like about cowering in fear and starting your own mini heresy the Smurfs always had loo roll.

All the major historical events for The imperium,The Beast, Armaggedon, the Vandian heresy and so on and so forth all have a conspicuous absence of smurfs who spend most of the time cowering in there home system. Except that time they awakened the necrons by accident.

But I don't begrudge smurfs players there choice it's an easy paint scheme and a lot of fluff to work from on chapter structure and stuff oh and they make good nid bait.

Do you actually know anything about Ultramarines fluff?

But they're not even good, that's the funny part.

Primaris marines are a total joke! Can you find me a single person who actually struggles to beat primaris marines? This person does not exist!

 Marmatag wrote:
But they're not even good, that's the funny part.

Primaris marines are a total joke! Can you find me a single person who actually struggles to beat primaris marines? This person does not exist!

I legit saw a match at a GT last month where a primaris army won.
Of course...it was a primaris mirror match... xD

 Marmatag wrote:
But they're not even good, that's the funny part.

Primaris marines are a total joke! Can you find me a single person who actually struggles to beat primaris marines? This person does not exist!

Hah, seriously. I was thinking of making an Ultramarines Successor Chapter Primaris army... But than I decided that I lose enough with my Blood Angels Successor, I don't need an army that will perform even worse in the Plasma/mortal wound spam that 8th currently is.

To be honest, that is part of the reason I switched my army to Space Marines. Their model line is extensive and they see so much support. I can see why people who play other armies would resent that though.

I am envious of Ultra’s though with the wide array of special characters, good rules, etc.

Median Trace wrote:
To be honest, that is part of the reason I switched my army to Space Marines. Their model line is extensive and they see so much support. I can see why people who play other armies would resent that though.

I am envious of Ultra’s though with the wide array of special characters, good rules, etc.

I actually swapped back to Marines recently too, I took a few years off from playing anything in Power Armour (besides the occasional Inquisitor or so), since I got tired of playing games that were Loyalist Marines vs Loyalist Marines. It has been fun to take a break from my Guard since in the area I moved to, I am the odd man out playing a Loyalist Marine army.

I do agree with being a little envious of the Ultramarines though, I don't use named characters in my army, but probably would if I had a Scout HQ and Tank Commaner... Wonder if we will get generic versions of them. Probably not with the focus currently being on Primaris.

Most people that hate Ultramarines are from England or USA. They are still bitter about Boadicea losing agaisnt the Romans.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Not to me. Guilliman cannot save the Imperium from itself on his own. 40k is far too grimdark for that. I know there's a lot of fanboys who want to make him out to be an unbeatable mary sue character who can do everything and fix the galaxy, but... he can't. That's beyond him. Even he has doubts about his own ability, and justifiable doubts at that.

He even had to play nice with the Imperial factions, given that he really hates the idea of being considered an Imperial Saint and the idea that the Ecchlesiarchy forced upon him.. But they are too strong to really root out and it does give the people hope, even as he's forced to acquiescence to their presence.

Yep. Turning Guilliman in to a mary sue like many fans do does both him and the setting at large a disservice-- it lessens, cheapens, and makes shallow an otherwise deep and interesting setting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
I actually swapped back to Marines recently too, I took a few years off from playing anything in Power Armour (besides the occasional Inquisitor or so), since I got tired of playing games that were Loyalist Marines vs Loyalist Marines. It has been fun to take a break from my Guard since in the area I moved to, I am the odd man out playing a Loyalist Marine army

What's funny is people call me a marine hater... but the only army that I own which isn't shelved is around ~2000 points of Blood Angels terminators, scouts, and death company.

Frankly, at this point, I'm wondering if the people spending all their time whining about how marines are weak are the real players who hate marines, and they're just defensively projecting that on to me.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
The Ultramarines are only the most buffed now because of Guilliman. Get rid of him, and I can guarentee you'd see more Raven Guard or Salamanders lists.

Indeed! We only need to get rid of Guilliman! Could Inquisitor Karamazov perhaps kindly put a bullet in his this meddlesome Primarch's luminous head? It is just unacceptable to have this so-called 'Son of the Emperor' around to upset the status quo and impede the wise High Lords in their work!

Guilliman is a high lord - plus - everyone loves him.

So was Vandire.

Ruin wrote:

So was Vandire.

I think a lot of people misinterpret the resentment of power armor, in that other army's blame GW, not the players.

Of course it's not Biff the Black Templar player's fault that Marines have the largest model line.

The resentment is directed at GW for their, really, explicitly blatant favoritism. I don't blame the Dark Angel player for getting his codex before mine, but I for sure will express my resentment that every army that's just Space Marines with some extra units tacked on with a different doctorine gets their book before I do.

Edit: Spelling

I think a lot of people misinterpret the resentment of power armor, in that other army's blame GW, not the players.

Of course it's not Biff the Black Templar player's fault that Marines have the largest model line.

Oh no, there are some people who actually blame the players for buying marine stuff which further incentivizes GW to produce more to meet demand.

Not that many comparatively, but there are some out there who really do just blame anyone who buys such.

Well after a couple weeks of checking back on this thread I think I have worked out the complicated web of Ultramarine hate. So here are the common reasons I've sussed out.

1. I hate space marines in general and UM are the pinnacle of what I hate about them
2. They get prioritized in marketing and model release
3. They are "Mary Sues"/They are boring
4. Matt Ward/Chapter Jealousy/2nd edition codex naming
5. Ultramarines/Space Marines are super OP
6. Meta is defined by Guilliman/If I play Imperial I must take Guilliman
7. They are big heroes in the lore who ruin grimdark by being cartoony and always win when they shouldn't
8. They are too popular
9. Part of 40k culture is hating UM/ in + out crowd

That's all I could think of, there are probably more but these are the ones that stand out to me atm. To be honest I find most of these complaints very hollow. Some make sense but I feel they are wrongfully targeted at UM and SM in general. I think #9 is the heart of it and many of the other reasons are just layers on it but here is my response to these.

1. Fair enough, you are likely part of the 9 crowd.
2. True but from what I understand they are the biggest selling faction, how else would they prioritize it?
3. I would argue pretty much everything in 40k is a mary sue. Nothing truly permanent can happen to any faction since it will po everyone who bought those models. Boring is subjective, the factions are made to appeal to different people. Many people like to play heroic style characters, you just aren't one of them.
4. Get over it
5. Doesn't seem to be true. Tournament results would suggest Chaos and AM are OP right now. 40k will never be balanced, it's too asymmetrical so why care.
6. Refer to 5. While Guilliman is good and should probably be more expensive than he is, this doesn't seem to be true.
7. So? 40k is incredibly cartoony, that is part of the appeal. There is room for heroes in grimdark. If you go full grimdark you get End Times Fantasy and who wants that for 40k?
8. My roommate, who is just starting his army, is the first UM player I have met. I never see them played where I live and I live in a major city.
9. Probably the most true. I hope people will eventually get over this. If you are a UM player I don't think you should get eviscerated by the community, its not like they are an OP chapter.

brettdavis1991 wrote:


8. My roommate, who is just starting his army, is the first UM player I have met. I never see them played where I live and I live in a major city.

That's extremely anecdotal. I've been in the hobby since 3rd edition and approx 2/3 (but probably more) of the players that I have met in almost 20 years owns a SM army. The majority of them were UM or vanilla marines, only a few were black templars, salamanders, BA, DA or SW. I don't even remember playing against another chapter. And I haven't faced black templars or BA in years.

I can't stand them for several reasons and my feeling started in 3rd edition, not recently, but their effectiveness in the game has never been one of those reasons, I couldn't care less about tournament lists.

brettdavis1991 wrote:
4. Get over it

This, of course, is about the most mature way of handling discourse. Never mind the valid reasons behind the argument you simply dismissed with a snide remark.




I'd love to know what army you play, and more specifically what faction. Show up with an Ulthwe army and have whomever you are facing say something akin to "Oh, you play Biel Tan." It's an insult to every bit of work you've put into the army and any investment you have in the fluff of your faction.

But yeah, "get over it".

Given that your argument is that you hate Ultramarines because they got a codex in 2nd edition instead of them desiring to make a generic vanilla dex or one about your specific chapter instead.

Valid reasons to hate them to this day and people who play them of course for the entire run of 40k indeed.

That they named the codex after one specific chapter, which led to the whole "poster child" syndrome. My chapter was on the cover of two game books, maybe three. On the package of 1 non-Special character package. I'd have been fine with them being on none, but as it stood that 2nd Ed. rewrite of fluff saw my Chapter move from founding Chapter to successor Chapter to almost being swept from the fluff entirely to being brought back to the forefront for the cover of the 3rd Ed. codex and the Land Raider box art. Honestly, I'm shocked my Chapter even got decals.

So not exactly what you state my reasoning is, but still valid to resent the Ultramarines' treatment by GW.

And who said I hate the people that play them? I said I get annoyed at the people who referred to any chapter that wasn't DA/SW/BT/BA as Ultramarines. Annoyed. Drastically different than hate. Unless you were part of an organization with a rich, proud history, you wouldn't get why I feel that way.