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Is anyone else wondering why Intercessors are rumored to go down in price. It makes the Tactical Marine even worse as a unit entry.

IMO Chapter Approved is meant for matched play and will hopefully make/keep the matched play environment more fair, but I fear that in an attempt to maximize sales GW will add rules to entice everyone to buy it. Doing this will, over time, begin to weigh down the game and/or possibility be counterproductive.

I'm curious to see how the CA book will affect the use/need of the main rulebook as well.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Is anyone else wondering why Intercessors are rumored to go down in price. It makes the Tactical Marine even worse as a unit entry.

Maybe because the fact that Intercessors are better than Tacticals don't really make them balanced? Both Intercessors and Tacticals need a upgrade. I don't think price is the one.

The real upgrade is to mix both unit entrys and allow Intercessors to have the flexibility of Tacticals with their acces to heavy and special primaris weapons.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Is anyone else wondering why Intercessors are rumored to go down in price. It makes the Tactical Marine even worse as a unit entry.

No one is bringing tactical marines for bolters anyway. People sometimes bring them for their heavy weapon. Intercessors can't have a heavy weapon, so each model actually needs to be worth it since you'll never bring them as ablative wounds for another model.

 pretre wrote:

Spartacus wrote:Whats wrong with Faeit? 99% of what they post is just reposts from old new or early releases from GW (as NZ gets them first). Ill take it anyday over clickbait central...

They are clickbait central. That's why he posts everything he sees without any consideration of how legitimate it is.

Plus how many of those "anonymous sources" are actually Faeith themselves...Especially when it's particularly clickbaiting title.

Mugaaz wrote:

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
Some of the rumours seem genuine whilst others are just odd. As a Death Guard fan the Plagueburst Crawler has always been worth its current points so I have no idea why in the rumours it is getting a 10 point reduction.

The Lord of Contagion and Deathshroud point reductions make sense though, as does the -2 pts on Plague Marines. I guess we shall see.

I agree, the PBC point drop doesn't make sense.

It could be +10 points instead of -10 points.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Is anyone else wondering why Intercessors are rumored to go down in price. It makes the Tactical Marine even worse as a unit entry.

Well, playing Salamanders, Tacticals are fantastic for a special or heavy weapon. Intercessors are trash at doing anything more than sitting in cover trying to claim an objective for 100 points instead of 55-65.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Is anyone else wondering why Intercessors are rumored to go down in price. It makes the Tactical Marine even worse as a unit entry.

No, because NO ONE take intercessors over tacticals. Tacticals are WILDLY superior point for point in almost every regard. Intercessors are a joke unit like repentia or jokearo,

Do new chapter approved books overwrite past ones or are the contents cumulative?

Price?

ERJAK wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Is anyone else wondering why Intercessors are rumored to go down in price. It makes the Tactical Marine even worse as a unit entry.

No, because NO ONE take intercessors over tacticals. Tacticals are WILDLY superior point for point in almost every regard. Intercessors are a joke unit like repentia or jokearo,

If they were like 16 pts per model, they wouldn't be that bad.

 Tokhuah wrote:
Do new chapter approved books overwrite past ones or are the contents cumulative?

Price?

It depends on which part you are talking about. Generally they are cumulative where they don't overlap.

 Tokhuah wrote:
Do new chapter approved books overwrite past ones or are the contents cumulative?

Price?

Assuming Chapter Approved is like AoS's General's Handbook, it would be more accurate to say that they overlap. Scenarios from GHB 2016 are still valid, but GHB 2017 has newer ones. You could really use either set of scenarios. Where rules are added or changed, the newer rule will always be the "legal" rule, so the most recent points will be the right ones.

ERJAK wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Is anyone else wondering why Intercessors are rumored to go down in price. It makes the Tactical Marine even worse as a unit entry.

No, because NO ONE take intercessors over tacticals. Tacticals are WILDLY superior point for point in almost every regard. Intercessors are a joke unit like repentia or jokearo,

Well that's definitely not true. Not sure how you got THAT math but alright.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bremon wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Is anyone else wondering why Intercessors are rumored to go down in price. It makes the Tactical Marine even worse as a unit entry.

Well, playing Salamanders, Tacticals are fantastic for a special or heavy weapon. Intercessors are trash at doing anything more than sitting in cover trying to claim an objective for 100 points instead of 55-65.

Except they're THAT much better for claiming an objective. Any heavy weapon is better with Devastators due to the Signum and Cherub. No amount of Objective Secured is better than that.

The price of this book is tiny compared to the improvement in the game. Only one person in each group need buy it; the others can copy points into their books. Everyone can share it for the missions. Who wouldn't chip in $5 for the group to be more balanced?

Price changes are great for underperforming units, but the real question (at least for me) is whether they'll address the huge advantage of going first in nearly all games.

I've tried a house rule that worked fairly well at lower point games; additional command points for the players that go last.

In other game systems if you have first turn everything just counts as moving. This results in a -1 penalty for many units (normally the big damage units)

Mchaagen wrote:
Price changes are great for underperforming units, but the real question (at least for me) is whether they'll address the huge advantage of going first in nearly all games.

I've tried a house rule that worked fairly well at lower point games; additional command points for the players that go last.

From what I've seen, it's kind of a yes and no.

They are adopting the ETC rules for first turn, so instead of always going first the person who finishes set up first gets +1 on a roll off after deployment is finished. I'm not sure if seizing the initiative will still be a thing - it would be kind of odd to have it under that system I think.

But it doesn't look as if anything will be done to make first turn a huge advantage, no.

One of the things that might be significant is the rules for imperial agents. Recent codices have included units like Phoenix Lords and regimental advisors who aren't from any craftworld/regiment. You can still take them in a detachment without breaking the craftworld/regiment bonuses for everyone else. I have always thought that inquisitors, and maybe some other kinds of imperial agents, ought to have a similar rule. Pure wishlisting here by the way, but it strikes me as an obvious change to make.

Well if those points values are real my list is now over by 55 points.... Oh wiener snitzel!!!

Mandragola wrote:

 vonjankmon wrote:

xerxeshavelock wrote:
I'm increasingly considering getting codexes on download now. Shame, because I like a book, but a book and sheets of paper updates coupled with the uncertainty of whether my or my opponent are using the latest rules isn't as desirable.

My personal ideal is to get a download code with the book, either for the full codex, or maybe just have points online and rules in the book. None of which is perfect really.

Does GW actually update their digital codexes with point and FAQ updates? I honestly assumed that they did not. If they do I'll likely buy purely digital in the future just to not have to print out FAQ's.

This kind of remains to be seen. I think in theory they are supposed to, but it isn't happening in practice.

I've switched to enhanced edition codexes now that I've got an ipad. They aren't as much use on a phone as the text is very small. On the whole it's massively more convenient than having to lug a bunch of books around.

A particular advantage is that you get the rules for all weapons on a datasheet, not just a selection of them. And you can bring up the points costs of units and upgrades from the datasheet too, without needing to go to the back of the book. Of course, all of those points costs will soon be out of date if there's no update!

GW have produced an army builder tool for AoS that does seem to have been updated for the 2017 GH points costs. Likewise the AoS app has updated costs. The same ought to be possible for 40k.

I did the same for my SM Dex, and there are several errors (bring up the power maul profile for example) that have not been corrected. I really hope that at minimum GW can publish an update to correct those. It would be REAL nice to also provide updates to things like point values, fill in missing info, or update text that was clarified in the FAQ.

I did see someone mention a GW army builder for AOS. If they would do the same for 40k that would be a fantastic tool to have at our disposal. I bet we will see it in 2018. Doesn't make sense for them to give that to AOS and not 40k.

Mugaaz wrote:

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
Some of the rumours seem genuine whilst others are just odd. As a Death Guard fan the Plagueburst Crawler has always been worth its current points so I have no idea why in the rumours it is getting a 10 point reduction.

The Lord of Contagion and Deathshroud point reductions make sense though, as does the -2 pts on Plague Marines. I guess we shall see.

I agree, the PBC point drop doesn't make sense.

I can kinda see the reasoning for the pbc point drop. BS 4+ is highly overrated and with the abundant -1 to hit available these days, which is one of the most used or sought after buffs, it really can be marginalized. You know if it moves that's another -1 to hit as well, it's BS also diminishes with wounds. With imperial guard battle tanks now shooting twice, they really seem lack luster in comparison.

usmcmidn wrote:
Well if those points values are real my list is now over by 55 points.... Oh wiener snitzel!!!

Welcome to my list when the new Astra Militarum raised plasma guns by 6 points

More leaks / rumours

via sources on Faeit 212 http://natfka.blogspot.se/2017/11/chapter-approved-2017-deathwatch.html

Deathwatch
Warlord Trait- re-roll failed wound rolls
Relic- once per game at end of movement, teleport a friendly infantry or biker unit to within 6" and outside of 9" of enemy model
Stratagems
1. 1CP select an enemy vehicle within 1" of a watch master and on a 2+ vehicle suffers d3 mortal wounds
2. 1CP each time you make a hit roll a 6+ in the fight phase and its not an imperium or chaos aligned model, make an extra attack. additional attacks cant be created from these.

Drukari
Warlord Traits
1. Wych Cult- each roll of a 6+ in the fight phase causes 3 hits
2. Haemonculus Coven- heal d3 wounds at the start of each turn
3. re-roll to hits and to wound rolls of a 1 during the fight phase.
Relic- Pistol 2 R12 S1 AP-2 D2 wounds on a 2+ vehicles on a 6+. For each model killed bearer gains a wound
Strategem
1CP/3CP one infantry, beast, or biker unit or 2 for 3 CP may use the webway and emerge onto the battle at the end of any of your movement phases. Setting up anywhere that is 9" or more from enemy units. Can only be used once per battle.

Harlequins
Warlord Trait- re-roll hit rolls of a 1
Relic- Increase leadership by 1, and all enemy units within 6" reduce their leadership by 1
Stratagems
1. 1CP/3CP one infantry, beast, or biker unit or 2 for 3 CP may use the webway and emerge onto the battle at the end of any of your movement phases. Setting up anywhere that is 9" or more from enemy units. Can only be used once per battle.
2. 1CP after a harlequin unit has advanced, it gains a 3+ invul until start of next turn.

Genestealer Cults
Warlord Trait- friendly infantry units can do a Heroic Intervention within 6"
Relic- +1 strength to friendly infantry unit within 6"
Stratagems
1. 1CP end of movement phase, remove a infantry unit from the board that is more than 6" from enemy models. At the end of the next movement phase, return it to the board using Cult Ambush
2. 1CP before rolling on cult ambush table, roll 2 dice instead of 1 and choose the result. A Primus may roll 3 dice instead.

Imperial Knights
Warlord Trait- add one to Attacks
Relic- replace reaper chainsword with this Melee S+6 AP3 D6
Stratagem
1CP when a Questor Imperialis or Mechanicus unit with a invul save is targeted, you may add 1 to the invul save until the end of the phase.

Thousand Sons
Warlord Trait- re-roll deny witch tests
Relic- rolling doubles for psychic tests means the opponent may not resist with deny the witch or negate it by any means.
Psychic Power- warp charge of 7. Select an enemy unit within 18" and roll 9 dice. The unit suffers mortal wounds on each roll of a 6
Stratagems
1CP If within 6" of at least 2 other friendly TS psykers, you can add 2 to your psychic test.

Sounds off.

For instance, Harlies have no Beasts. Unless they can take DE stuff *as* harlies (I really doubt they'll release new kits without a book).

Could be misremembering or something, though.

Bharring wrote:
Sounds off.

For instance, Harlies have no Beasts. Unless they can take DE stuff *as* harlies (I really doubt they'll release new kits without a book).

Could be misremembering or something, though.

It's a straight up copy paste of what was written for the Drukhari since they have beasts, if it's true it will probably only say bikes and Infantry.



The Drukhari stuff is a bit meh, I mean the first two traits are decent but wont change the fact that our HQ's are rubbish, the 3rd trait is pointless. The relic is a nice update to the Parasites Kiss but the strategem is a copy paste job of the Craftworlders Webway Strike, and it's the wrong strategem to give us since all of our infantry are in vehicles and no one runs bikes so only beast packs will benefit in case someone likes to run Beastmasters and Clawed Fiends. Cloud Strike would have been much more useful for us.

So I guess this means that Thousand Sons are in fact going to get our own spell list... I should be excited about this but that means we're losing one of the best spell lists in the game so it largely just makes me nervous.

The best feature revealed for us is probably the warlord trait, largely because its a warlord trait and that means we only have to take it when it'll be useful (hopefully it isn't the signature trait for Magnus or Ahriman...).

Hmm even in the rumors there is no mention of Ynnari...I wonder if they will be stuck with index rules or they will get an FAQ/pamphlet rules before the year ends?

Tautastic wrote:
Hmm even in the rumors there is no mention of Ynnari...I wonder if they will be stuck with index rules or they will get an FAQ/pamphlet rules before the year ends?

Ynnari is a soup army, giving them stratagems would be like giving Imperium stratagems.

GW could still do it, of course, but they shouldn't.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

Tautastic wrote:
Hmm even in the rumors there is no mention of Ynnari...I wonder if they will be stuck with index rules or they will get an FAQ/pamphlet rules before the year ends?

Ynnari is a soup army, giving them stratagems would be like giving Imperium stratagems.

GW could still do it, of course, but they shouldn't.

Well they are a little different than most soup armies. They have their own rules (SfD and Psychic powers). Also they have their own models (albeit only 3 but those 3 are unique to them unlike other soup armies using different codex models). Besides a pure Ynnari army has no access to stratagems too.

Now a better comparison to a soup army is an "Aeldari" army. I think a Ynnari is an army of their own.

Tautastic wrote:
Hmm even in the rumors there is no mention of Ynnari...I wonder if they will be stuck with index rules or they will get an FAQ/pamphlet rules before the year ends?

From Warhammer Community;

... while the Triumvirate of Ynnead has been reboxed to include the new rules for the Ynnari from Index: Imperium 2, meaning you won’t need to buy this book if you’re looking to field a Ynnari army with your codex in open play.

If their rules were changing, they wouldn't have went through the effort to put the index rules in the kit.

 Ghaz wrote:

Tautastic wrote:
Hmm even in the rumors there is no mention of Ynnari...I wonder if they will be stuck with index rules or they will get an FAQ/pamphlet rules before the year ends?

From Warhammer Community;

... while the Triumvirate of Ynnead has been reboxed to include the new rules for the Ynnari from Index: Imperium 2, meaning you won’t need to buy this book if you’re looking to field a Ynnari army with your codex in open play.

If their rules were changing, they wouldn't have went through the effort to put the index rules in the kit.

I feel like this is a bit of confirmation bias.

We had it being plugged early on that Ynnari will be a faction in their own right and as such will see a Codex release at some point. We don't know when or how it will look, but the lack of a change to the rules of the Triumvirate of Ynnead does not mean that there won't be a Codex later.

I'm calling bull on this as compared to the General's Handbook these are really lackluster, and I can't imagine them going this "meh" for their first outing.