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broxus wrote:
In other game systems if you have first turn everything just counts as moving. This results in a -1 penalty for many units (normally the big damage units)

This would be awesome. Currently, even the roll-off is bad, as the winner of the roll-off still has a huge advantage.

Nogil wrote:
More leaks / rumours

Oooh!

via sources on Faeit 212

Oh... Nevermind.

I'm just miffed that there are no leaked changes to Grey Knights, who are currently stuck with the least interesting and least competitive codex thus far.

I am really hoping for a Chapter/Legion/Whatever trait for all of the armies that don't have them. Just one each. Basically, I want the armies to be on par with each other, even if codex armies have more choices.

 greyknight12 wrote:
I'm just miffed that there are no leaked changes to Grey Knights, who are currently stuck with the least interesting and least competitive codex thus far.

AdMech says hi, but...
Terminators going up in price was super insulting. I'm also still miffed that Purifiers lost their second attack.

 Ghaz wrote:

... while the Triumvirate of Ynnead has been reboxed to include the new rules for the Ynnari from Index: Imperium 2, meaning you won’t need to buy this book if you’re looking to field a Ynnari army with your codex in open play.

If their rules were changing, they wouldn't have went through the effort to put the index rules in the kit.

So removing the 7th edition rules that will just confuse new players and keeping the box in line with the “kit includes rules” paradigm they’ve been pursuing for years isn’t a good enough reason?

 Karthicus wrote:
I did see someone mention a GW army builder for AOS. If they would do the same for 40k that would be a fantastic tool to have at our disposal. I bet we will see it in 2018. Doesn't make sense for them to give that to AOS and not 40k.

You know how 40k has power levels as a rough balance mechanism? AoS points are like that. It's X points for Y models, all upgrades and weapon options are free (and yes, this does affect balance like you might imagine). This means an army builder is far more simple for AoS than it would be for 40k.

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

... while the Triumvirate of Ynnead has been reboxed to include the new rules for the Ynnari from Index: Imperium 2, meaning you won’t need to buy this book if you’re looking to field a Ynnari army with your codex in open play.

If their rules were changing, they wouldn't have went through the effort to put the index rules in the kit.

So removing the 7th edition rules that will just confuse new players and keeping the box in line with the “kit includes rules” paradigm they’ve been pursuing for years isn’t a good enough reason?

So new players can be confused with out of date 8th edition rules instead if they change the rules in a few months? If the 8th edition index rules aren't going to be sticking around for a while, why even include them in the kit?

 Ghaz wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

... while the Triumvirate of Ynnead has been reboxed to include the new rules for the Ynnari from Index: Imperium 2, meaning you won’t need to buy this book if you’re looking to field a Ynnari army with your codex in open play.

If their rules were changing, they wouldn't have went through the effort to put the index rules in the kit.

So removing the 7th edition rules that will just confuse new players and keeping the box in line with the “kit includes rules” paradigm they’ve been pursuing for years isn’t a good enough reason?

So new players can be confused with out of date 8th edition rules instead if they change the rules in a few months? If the 8th edition index rules aren't going to be sticking around for a while, why even include them in the kit?

For no other reason than to give you something stupid to complain about

Ynnari can go away, the same way the Albion Fen beast and truthsayer did inFantasy. You came, moved the story along, now either unite the Aeldar (CW, Dark & Clown types) or go away.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Ynnari can go away, the same way the Albion Fen beast and truthsayer did inFantasy. You came, moved the story along, now either unite the Aeldar (CW, Dark & Clown types) or go away.

I'd much rather they became a full fledged army in their own right than hodgepodge of some other armies.

I wonder whether the Dark Eldar and Harlequin webway strike stratagems can be used in addition to the Craftworlds one or whether the entire army can only use it once. It might be fun to see an army of mixed jetbikes explode out of reserves.

Nogil wrote:

Thousand Sons
Warlord Trait- re-roll deny witch tests
Relic- rolling doubles for psychic tests means the opponent may not resist with deny the witch or negate it by any means.
Psychic Power- warp charge of 7. Select an enemy unit within 18" and roll 9 dice. The unit suffers mortal wounds on each roll of a 6
Stratagems
1CP If within 6" of at least 2 other friendly TS psykers, you can add 2 to your psychic test.

This is... dissappointing. Very so...

I hope this is not true. Warlord trait re-roll "deny the witch"? Maybe re-rolling psychic test for this army, but "deny the witch"? Why?

The psychic power is basically useless unless you have wildy good luck... In 6 dice the average is to get one 6. In 9 dice it would be 1.something or being really generous, 2. And with 7 warp charge is not really very easy... Comparing that with Smite that can make 1D3 mortal wounds, with difficulty 5, i really don't see the point for this power. Sure, with veeeery good luck you can have 9 mortal wounds... but with bad dice rolls you can do nothing. Much better the basic smite. If these are the kind of psychic powers we can expect for the "masters of the warp", well... And then in the same rumour we have the Harlequins, for 1 CP gaining a 3++ after advancing.

Very dissappointing... So i really hope this is not true.

 JimOnMars wrote:

broxus wrote:
In other game systems if you have first turn everything just counts as moving. This results in a -1 penalty for many units (normally the big damage units)

This would be awesome. Currently, even the roll-off is bad, as the winner of the roll-off still has a huge advantage.

Honestly I think the return of night fighting (or Acid Rain in the open play cards) would go a long way to mitigate first turn advantage.

 Warpspy wrote:

Nogil wrote:

Thousand Sons
Warlord Trait- re-roll deny witch tests
Relic- rolling doubles for psychic tests means the opponent may not resist with deny the witch or negate it by any means.
Psychic Power- warp charge of 7. Select an enemy unit within 18" and roll 9 dice. The unit suffers mortal wounds on each roll of a 6
Stratagems
1CP If within 6" of at least 2 other friendly TS psykers, you can add 2 to your psychic test.

This is... dissappointing. Very so...

I hope this is not true. Warlord trait re-roll "deny the witch"? Maybe re-rolling psychic test for this army, but "deny the witch"? Why?

The psychic power is basically useless unless you have wildy good luck... In 6 dice the average is to get one 6. In 9 dice it would be 1.something or being really generous, 2. And with 7 warp charge is not really very easy... Comparing that with Smite that can make 1D3 mortal wounds, with difficulty 5, i really don't see the point for this power. Sure, with veeeery good luck you can have 9 mortal wounds... but with bad dice rolls you can do nothing. Much better the basic smite. If these are the kind of psychic powers we can expect for the "masters of the warp", well... And then in the same rumour we have the Harlequins, for 1 CP gaining a 3++ after advancing.

Very dissappointing... So i really hope this is not true.

I wonder how the relic interacts with Sisters of Silence etc?

 Warpspy wrote:

Nogil wrote:

Thousand Sons
Warlord Trait- re-roll deny witch tests
Relic- rolling doubles for psychic tests means the opponent may not resist with deny the witch or negate it by any means.
Psychic Power- warp charge of 7. Select an enemy unit within 18" and roll 9 dice. The unit suffers mortal wounds on each roll of a 6
Stratagems
1CP If within 6" of at least 2 other friendly TS psykers, you can add 2 to your psychic test.

This is... dissappointing. Very so...

I hope this is not true. Warlord trait re-roll "deny the witch"? Maybe re-rolling psychic test for this army, but "deny the witch"? Why?

The psychic power is basically useless unless you have wildy good luck... In 6 dice the average is to get one 6. In 9 dice it would be 1.something or being really generous, 2. And with 7 warp charge is not really very easy... Comparing that with Smite that can make 1D3 mortal wounds, with difficulty 5, i really don't see the point for this power. Sure, with veeeery good luck you can have 9 mortal wounds... but with bad dice rolls you can do nothing. Much better the basic smite. If these are the kind of psychic powers we can expect for the "masters of the warp", well... And then in the same rumour we have the Harlequins, for 1 CP gaining a 3++ after advancing.

Very dissappointing... So i really hope this is not true.

While I agree the power is lackluster, the main advantage over smite is picking a target rather than only hitting the closest.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Warpspy wrote:

Nogil wrote:

Thousand Sons
Warlord Trait- re-roll deny witch tests
Relic- rolling doubles for psychic tests means the opponent may not resist with deny the witch or negate it by any means.
Psychic Power- warp charge of 7. Select an enemy unit within 18" and roll 9 dice. The unit suffers mortal wounds on each roll of a 6
Stratagems
1CP If within 6" of at least 2 other friendly TS psykers, you can add 2 to your psychic test.

This is... dissappointing. Very so...

I hope this is not true. Warlord trait re-roll "deny the witch"? Maybe re-rolling psychic test for this army, but "deny the witch"? Why?

The psychic power is basically useless unless you have wildy good luck... In 6 dice the average is to get one 6. In 9 dice it would be 1.something or being really generous, 2. And with 7 warp charge is not really very easy... Comparing that with Smite that can make 1D3 mortal wounds, with difficulty 5, i really don't see the point for this power. Sure, with veeeery good luck you can have 9 mortal wounds... but with bad dice rolls you can do nothing. Much better the basic smite. If these are the kind of psychic powers we can expect for the "masters of the warp", well... And then in the same rumour we have the Harlequins, for 1 CP gaining a 3++ after advancing.

Very dissappointing... So i really hope this is not true.

While I agree the power is lackluster, the main advantage over smite is picking a target rather than only hitting the closest.

We have Infernal Gaze (less Warp charge, on average does the same damage as the new power) and Gift of Chaos (cheaper, but much shorter ranged and they have to pass a toughness test, but does more damage). Not sure why you'd use the new power, unless Aspiring Sorcerers can use it instead of Smite? Even then...

 Camundongo wrote:
We have Infernal Gaze (less Warp charge, on average does the same damage as the new power) and Gift of Chaos (cheaper, but much shorter ranged and they have to pass a toughness test, but does more damage). Not sure why you'd use the new power, unless Aspiring Sorcerers can use it instead of Smite? Even then...

Chances are we won't have Infernal Gaze or Gift of Chaos when the new list rolls around. Or more importantly, we won't have Warptime or Prescience either... it'll be difficult for them to even break even with the CSM list.

 Warpspy wrote:

Nogil wrote:

Thousand Sons
Warlord Trait- re-roll deny witch tests
Relic- rolling doubles for psychic tests means the opponent may not resist with deny the witch or negate it by any means.
Psychic Power- warp charge of 7. Select an enemy unit within 18" and roll 9 dice. The unit suffers mortal wounds on each roll of a 6
Stratagems
1CP If within 6" of at least 2 other friendly TS psykers, you can add 2 to your psychic test.

This is... dissappointing. Very so...

I hope this is not true. Warlord trait re-roll "deny the witch"? Maybe re-rolling psychic test for this army, but "deny the witch"? Why?

The psychic power is basically useless unless you have wildy good luck... In 6 dice the average is to get one 6. In 9 dice it would be 1.something or being really generous, 2. And with 7 warp charge is not really very easy... Comparing that with Smite that can make 1D3 mortal wounds, with difficulty 5, i really don't see the point for this power. Sure, with veeeery good luck you can have 9 mortal wounds... but with bad dice rolls you can do nothing. Much better the basic smite. If these are the kind of psychic powers we can expect for the "masters of the warp", well... And then in the same rumour we have the Harlequins, for 1 CP gaining a 3++ after advancing.

Very dissappointing... So i really hope this is not true.

but is it re-roll YOUR deny the witch (pretty Meh) or force your opponent to reroll their deny the witch if you choose (pretty good since it would make it a lot harder for them to block your stronger powers)

 Camundongo wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Warpspy wrote:

Nogil wrote:

Thousand Sons
Warlord Trait- re-roll deny witch tests
Relic- rolling doubles for psychic tests means the opponent may not resist with deny the witch or negate it by any means.
Psychic Power- warp charge of 7. Select an enemy unit within 18" and roll 9 dice. The unit suffers mortal wounds on each roll of a 6
Stratagems
1CP If within 6" of at least 2 other friendly TS psykers, you can add 2 to your psychic test.

This is... dissappointing. Very so...

I hope this is not true. Warlord trait re-roll "deny the witch"? Maybe re-rolling psychic test for this army, but "deny the witch"? Why?

The psychic power is basically useless unless you have wildy good luck... In 6 dice the average is to get one 6. In 9 dice it would be 1.something or being really generous, 2. And with 7 warp charge is not really very easy... Comparing that with Smite that can make 1D3 mortal wounds, with difficulty 5, i really don't see the point for this power. Sure, with veeeery good luck you can have 9 mortal wounds... but with bad dice rolls you can do nothing. Much better the basic smite. If these are the kind of psychic powers we can expect for the "masters of the warp", well... And then in the same rumour we have the Harlequins, for 1 CP gaining a 3++ after advancing.

Very dissappointing... So i really hope this is not true.

While I agree the power is lackluster, the main advantage over smite is picking a target rather than only hitting the closest.

We have Infernal Gaze (less Warp charge, on average does the same damage as the new power) and Gift of Chaos (cheaper, but much shorter ranged and they have to pass a toughness test, but does more damage). Not sure why you'd use the new power, unless Aspiring Sorcerers can use it instead of Smite? Even then...

Like I said, that doesn't make it at all good but there is at least some reason to use it over smite if those are the two options. In a TS army its also entirely possible that the two powers you mentioned were already used in the same phase and accordingly can't be used again until the next turn.

 Imateria wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Ynnari can go away, the same way the Albion Fen beast and truthsayer did inFantasy. You came, moved the story along, now either unite the Aeldar (CW, Dark & Clown types) or go away.

I'd much rather they became a full fledged army in their own right than hodgepodge of some other armies.

It would be better IMHO for them to be like Imperial Guard Storm Troopers and Auxiliary. A "out of faction" choice, that still allows you to count as a single faction. The don't benefit from your craft world abilities, but don't stop you from taking them if in the same detachment.

When does this codex thing with updated rules and FAQ come out?

December

 Lockark wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Ynnari can go away, the same way the Albion Fen beast and truthsayer did inFantasy. You came, moved the story along, now either unite the Aeldar (CW, Dark & Clown types) or go away.

I'd much rather they became a full fledged army in their own right than hodgepodge of some other armies.

It would be better IMHO for them to be like Imperial Guard Storm Troopers and Auxiliary. A "out of faction" choice, that still allows you to count as a single faction. The don't benefit from your craft world abilities, but don't stop you from taking them if in the same detachment.

The problem with this is that there is another part to that:
Militarum Tempestus units taken as part of, say, a Catachan Detachment?
They don't benefit from the Catachan rules nor do they prevent the Catachans from benefitting from theirs...but they also do not get their own benefits. Scions do actually have their own Regimental rules(Stormtroopers: models shooting at half range or less can make an extra shot for each hit roll of 6+ that they make) that they don't get for being part of another Regimental detachment.

So if Ynnari were given that setup, they shouldn't get their special perks in a Craftworld Detachment. At all.

 greyknight12 wrote:
I'm just miffed that there are no leaked changes to Grey Knights, who are currently stuck with the least interesting and least competitive codex thus far.

You and me both, brother.

Audustum wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:
I'm just miffed that there are no leaked changes to Grey Knights, who are currently stuck with the least interesting and least competitive codex thus far.

You and me both, brother.

I wouldn't read much into it one way or the other. It's highly unlikely that these are in fact real changes.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:
I'm just miffed that there are no leaked changes to Grey Knights, who are currently stuck with the least interesting and least competitive codex thus far.

You and me both, brother.

I wouldn't read much into it one way or the other. It's highly unlikely that these are in fact real changes.

Agreed. Technically, none of factions got leaks...only rumors.

 JimOnMars wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:
I'm just miffed that there are no leaked changes to Grey Knights, who are currently stuck with the least interesting and least competitive codex thus far.

You and me both, brother.

I wouldn't read much into it one way or the other. It's highly unlikely that these are in fact real changes.

Agreed. Technically, none of factions got leaks...only rumors.

And really, from the way it's being presented all of the "rumors" are the only thing that each faction gets. Which is...questionable at best. My Wanderers in AoS saw a full table of Command Traits, 6 Relics, and then some new special rules to bring them roughly to parity with those armies which had full army books.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:
I'm just miffed that there are no leaked changes to Grey Knights, who are currently stuck with the least interesting and least competitive codex thus far.

You and me both, brother.

I wouldn't read much into it one way or the other. It's highly unlikely that these are in fact real changes.

Agreed. Technically, none of factions got leaks...only rumors.

And really, from the way it's being presented all of the "rumors" are the only thing that each faction gets. Which is...questionable at best. My Wanderers in AoS saw a full table of Command Traits, 6 Relics, and then some new special rules to bring them roughly to parity with those armies which had full army books.

I don't think we're going to get full parity anyway. If we did, why would anyone bother to buy the codex?

Like it or not, it's obvious that the indexes were deliberately weakened relative to the codexes to make sure people bought both. I don't see CA breaking that trend. I just means we get to buy three things instead of two.

 JimOnMars wrote:
I don't think we're going to get full parity anyway. If we did, why would anyone bother to buy the codex?

Because you don't have option if we want to play tournaments? Players are excelent at self-policying themselves into following GW's dictations even stricter than GW is trying and now even GW is "latest only" for pretty much first time.