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 JimOnMars wrote:
I don't think we're going to get full parity anyway. If we did, why would anyone bother to buy the codex?

Like it or not, it's obvious that the indexes were deliberately weakened relative to the codexes to make sure people bought both. I don't see CA breaking that trend. I just means we get to buy three things instead of two.

See, I don't think we were going to get full parity but at the least they know their schedule for what books are in testing and what books aren't. I could easily see Chapter Approved making it so that they can sneak some of the material they want tested into the open and see how it gets responded to.

At the very least, I expect if they're going to do anything for the Index Armies in Chapter Approved to try and balance them up to where the Codex armies are?
-A full Warlord table.
-A number of generic Relics.
-A selection of Stratagems that are thematic for that faction.
-A selection of point tweaks.
-MAYBE a few <Insert Fancy Name Here> traits, at least for the ones ties to specific worlds/groups(T'au and Farsight Enclaves for the Tau and Goffs for the Orks, for example)

You'd be looking at 6 Warlord Traits, 6 Relics, and maybe 6 Stratagems plus the tweaks to points and the "sneak peek" of specific traits. By doing it like that, you maintain the incentive for buying the actual Codex once it comes out while still showing a commitment to making things balanced.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
I don't think we're going to get full parity anyway. If we did, why would anyone bother to buy the codex?

Like it or not, it's obvious that the indexes were deliberately weakened relative to the codexes to make sure people bought both. I don't see CA breaking that trend. I just means we get to buy three things instead of two.

See, I don't think we were going to get full parity but at the least they know their schedule for what books are in testing and what books aren't. I could easily see Chapter Approved making it so that they can sneak some of the material they want tested into the open and see how it gets responded to.

At the very least, I expect if they're going to do anything for the Index Armies in Chapter Approved to try and balance them up to where the Codex armies are?
-A full Warlord table.
-A number of generic Relics.
-A selection of Stratagems that are thematic for that faction.
-A selection of point tweaks.
-MAYBE a few <Insert Fancy Name Here> traits, at least for the ones ties to specific worlds/groups(T'au and Farsight Enclaves for the Tau and Goffs for the Orks, for example)

You'd be looking at 6 Warlord Traits, 6 Relics, and maybe 6 Stratagems plus the tweaks to points and the "sneak peek" of specific traits. By doing it like that, you maintain the incentive for buying the actual Codex once it comes out while still showing a commitment to making things balanced.

More likely, ONE trait, ONE strategem, and maybe one faction rule. I would be fine with that. I'm only waiting for my Orkz update and they're gonna be bottom barrel regardless.

I am only expecting one Warlord Trait, one Relic, one Strategem, and one Faction trait. No real need for more than that.

Nogil wrote:
More leaks / rumours

via sources on Faeit 212 http://natfka.blogspot.se/2017/11/chapter-approved-2017-deathwatch.html

Thousand Sons
Warlord Trait- re-roll deny witch tests
Relic- rolling doubles for psychic tests means the opponent may not resist with deny the witch or negate it by any means.
Psychic Power- warp charge of 7. Select an enemy unit within 18" and roll 9 dice. The unit suffers mortal wounds on each roll of a 6
Stratagems
1CP If within 6" of at least 2 other friendly TS psykers, you can add 2 to your psychic test.

This better not be what we get. The trait is crap, the Psy power is somehow worse, the relic is laughable, and the stratagem is barely decent.

Allow me to elaborate though.

The Trait is a non-buff buff. It doesn't actually add anything to your capabilities since your going to have either Ahriman or Magnus as your warlord and they already have a bonus to thier deny. The only time it will be really helpful is against extreamly high rolls which will be so rare that it will be almost useless to bring.

That epic Psychic Power... 10,000 years and they managed to get a spell slightly worse then Smite? No wonder Prospero fell, maybe next time work on something useful like a spell that cleans armor or does the dishes.

The Relic, I mean my god a 4/36 chance of getting something out of a Relic is super reasonable. Not like the only Charcters able to use it can only cast 2 spells per turn or anything, which would mean it MIGHT work once per game on to be determined spell, and thats if you don't kill yourself in the process.

Why...why would they even add a strat to an army that can barely get 9 CP at 2k points, that is if you want to have a chance at winning. How about a Strat that allows a reroll for all psychic tests in the paychic phase? So my army dosent occasionally implode. But then again if you use it with magnus he gets a +4 to his roll which means a 6+ gets you 2D6 mortal wounds dosent it?

This cannot be real.

That's quite the overreaction to a Fakeit rumor.

4/36 chance, with reasonable simplified math, is a 1/9 chance. Calling it 4/36 to make it seem worse than it is is like calling it a 12/108 chance. "96 out of 108 times it will fail!" Also... 8 out of 9. Not the worst.

How many Tson units in a list can cast powers? How many powers do you think your generally casting a turn? A game?

 Lance845 wrote:
4/36 chance, with reasonable simplified math, is a 1/9 chance. Calling it 4/36 to make it seem worse than it is is like calling it a 12/108 chance. "96 out of 108 times it will fail!" Also... 8 out of 9. Not the worst.

How many Tson units in a list can cast powers? How many powers do you think your generally casting a turn? A game?

Not many, to be honest. Almost all of your casting is done by Magnus and Ahriman, neither of which can take relics. I usually have at most one or two other sorcerers in a list who are largely just there for a specific purpose (like a Prescience Termi Sorc to drop next to my SOT's) and outside of that just cast Smite.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
4/36 chance, with reasonable simplified math, is a 1/9 chance. Calling it 4/36 to make it seem worse than it is is like calling it a 12/108 chance. "96 out of 108 times it will fail!" Also... 8 out of 9. Not the worst.

How many Tson units in a list can cast powers? How many powers do you think your generally casting a turn? A game?

Not many, to be honest. Almost all of your casting is done by Magnus and Ahriman, neither of which can take relics. I usually have at most one or two other sorcerers in a list who are largely just there for a specific purpose (like a Prescience Termi Sorc to drop next to my SOT's) and outside of that just cast Smite.

It's also more likely a 1/12 chance, double 1 and double 2 are fails whilst it's very unusual for an opponent to be able to deny a double 6.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
I don't think we're going to get full parity anyway. If we did, why would anyone bother to buy the codex?

Like it or not, it's obvious that the indexes were deliberately weakened relative to the codexes to make sure people bought both. I don't see CA breaking that trend. I just means we get to buy three things instead of two.

See, I don't think we were going to get full parity but at the least they know their schedule for what books are in testing and what books aren't. I could easily see Chapter Approved making it so that they can sneak some of the material they want tested into the open and see how it gets responded to.

At the very least, I expect if they're going to do anything for the Index Armies in Chapter Approved to try and balance them up to where the Codex armies are?
-A full Warlord table.
-A number of generic Relics.
-A selection of Stratagems that are thematic for that faction.
-A selection of point tweaks.
-MAYBE a few <Insert Fancy Name Here> traits, at least for the ones ties to specific worlds/groups(T'au and Farsight Enclaves for the Tau and Goffs for the Orks, for example)

You'd be looking at 6 Warlord Traits, 6 Relics, and maybe 6 Stratagems plus the tweaks to points and the "sneak peek" of specific traits. By doing it like that, you maintain the incentive for buying the actual Codex once it comes out while still showing a commitment to making things balanced.

I would hope that would be the case - least they can do for those not blessed with a Codex. It would be in line with the Generals Handbook 2017.

Anyone hear anything about orks?

I would be very surprised if Chapter Approved is as comprehensive as the Generals Handbook in giving out additional rules to the armies. With the GHB you expect most of those armies to never see a Battletome release whilst we know that within the next year everything faction will end up with a codex for 40K so there's no where near as much need.

 Imateria wrote:
I would be very surprised if Chapter Approved is as comprehensive as the Generals Handbook in giving out additional rules to the armies. With the GHB you expect most of those armies to never see a Battletome release whilst we know that within the next year everything faction will end up with a codex for 40K so there's no where near as much need.

So some armies should wait "just" another year to have anything cool? Yeah thats just awesome. They did not say everyone - they said every major faction iirc.

Still alot of Codexs to come out - plus likely Campaign books:

Thousand Sons, Space Wolves, Dark Eldar, Orks, Tau , Genestaler Cults, Plus maybe DeathWatch, Agents of Imperium, Custodes, Sister of Silence, Emperors Children, I can see them doing some of these in CA just so they donlt have to bother with a Codex for them

I can't see Primaris not getting a Codex - otherwise not enough Marine releases and they will have to start again with yet another Codex Marines

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Imateria wrote:
I would be very surprised if Chapter Approved is as comprehensive as the Generals Handbook in giving out additional rules to the armies. With the GHB you expect most of those armies to never see a Battletome release whilst we know that within the next year everything faction will end up with a codex for 40K so there's no where near as much need.

So some armies should wait "just" another year to have anything cool? Yeah thats just awesome. They did not say everyone - they said every major faction iirc.

Still alot of Codexs to come out - plus likely Campaign books:

Thousand Sons, Space Wolves, Dark Eldar, Orks, Tau , Genestaler Cults, Plus maybe DeathWatch, Agents of Imperium, Custodes, Sister of Silence, Emperors Children, I can see them doing some of these in CA just so they donlt have to bother with a Codex for them

I can't see Primaris not getting a Codex - otherwise not enough Marine releases and they will have to start again with yet another Codex Marines

They've said Primaris aren't getting a Codex.

With the way they're pushing for rules in the boxes and points as PDFs if they're not out or in a book yet, they don't need to update the books right off the bat.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
That's quite the overreaction to a Fakeit rumor.

I was bored at work had nothing else to do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lance845 wrote:
4/36 chance, with reasonable simplified math, is a 1/9 chance. Calling it 4/36 to make it seem worse than it is is like calling it a 12/108 chance. "96 out of 108 times it will fail!" Also... 8 out of 9. Not the worst.

How many Tson units in a list can cast powers? How many powers do you think your generally casting a turn? A game?

Take a stats class and they will explain to you why you dont say 4/36 is the same as 1/9. Mostly because it isn't.

Either way. One would hope any possible Thousand Sons additions would go some way towards making Ahriman and Magnus less of an auto-include and all other HQ sections balanced against lists with those two.

The auto-include of the named guys and clear advantage they enjoy over lists without them seems to be the biggest problem with TS at the moment.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Imateria wrote:
I would be very surprised if Chapter Approved is as comprehensive as the Generals Handbook in giving out additional rules to the armies. With the GHB you expect most of those armies to never see a Battletome release whilst we know that within the next year everything faction will end up with a codex for 40K so there's no where near as much need.

So some armies should wait "just" another year to have anything cool? Yeah thats just awesome. They did not say everyone - they said every major faction iirc.

Still alot of Codexs to come out - plus likely Campaign books:

Thousand Sons, Space Wolves, Dark Eldar, Orks, Tau , Genestaler Cults, Plus maybe DeathWatch, Agents of Imperium, Custodes, Sister of Silence, Emperors Children, I can see them doing some of these in CA just so they donlt have to bother with a Codex for them

I can't see Primaris not getting a Codex - otherwise not enough Marine releases and they will have to start again with yet another Codex Marines

Less than a year at the current rate. And they've already said campaign books will be after the codecies. Considering it took 14 years for Dark Eldar to go from their first to their second codex I think knowing that having a new one within a year of a major rules change is pretty good going, especially since all factions will be in the same boat.

Also, for your reading fail, I said "as comprehensive", that doesn't mean getting nothing at all. There's no way BW was ever going to put anywhwere near as much into the CA as they would a codex for each faction a then there would be no need for a codex.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Karthicus wrote:
I did see someone mention a GW army builder for AOS. If they would do the same for 40k that would be a fantastic tool to have at our disposal. I bet we will see it in 2018. Doesn't make sense for them to give that to AOS and not 40k.

You know how 40k has power levels as a rough balance mechanism? AoS points are like that. It's X points for Y models, all upgrades and weapon options are free (and yes, this does affect balance like you might imagine). This means an army builder is far more simple for AoS than it would be for 40k.

Not really actually, the AoS army builder has all the nuts and bolts for adding weapons per squad and such already built in, it would be practically trivial to add in the points values to each item. As it stands the AoS app is ready to take on 40k with little change.

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
That's quite the overreaction to a Fakeit rumor.

I was bored at work had nothing else to do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lance845 wrote:
4/36 chance, with reasonable simplified math, is a 1/9 chance. Calling it 4/36 to make it seem worse than it is is like calling it a 12/108 chance. "96 out of 108 times it will fail!" Also... 8 out of 9. Not the worst.

How many Tson units in a list can cast powers? How many powers do you think your generally casting a turn? A game?

Take a stats class and they will explain to you why you dont say 4/36 is the same as 1/9. Mostly because it isn't.

What? They are literally the same.

...take a stats class...to better understand why certain rules don’t favour someone else’s army in a tabletop war game? Truly compelling discourse in favour of a buff to Magnus’ dust pharaohs.

Thread derailment I'm three..... Two..... One....

I'll add my voice to my fellow Grey Knights players and say that if this is it I'm disappointed on behalf of my silver horde

How many codexes do we have left after those that have been announced?

Deathwatch
Space Wolves
Adeptus Ministorum/Sisters of Battle
Adeptus Custodes
Sisters of Silence
Inquisition
Imperial Knights
Officio Assassinorum
Thousand Sons
Renegade Knights
Orks
Harlequins
Dark Eldar
Ynnari
Necrons
T'au
Genestealer Cults

Right away, I am going to say that Custodes, Sisters of Silence, Inquisition and the Assassins could be lumped together in a single book called "Forces of the Imperium". All of the armies inside may not share a keyword but many of them are too small to justify their own book.

That drops the total down to, what, 14 codexes? Release a codex every 2 weeks starting in late January and you will have them all out by the end of July.

I expect Sisters of Silence & Custodes to get put into one book. They were called the "Talons of the Emperor" in a few spots recently so that's one book.

Assassins and Inquisition could be another book and be called "Hand of Terra" or something of that nature.

Sisters of Battle will likely be their own book; Adeptus Ministorum stuff will depend on what they opt to carry over.

Imperial Agents or Agents of the Throne would also be good titles but they may just go with a simple Inquisition title.

I cant see Imperial Knights getting their own codex after being in Adeptus Mechanicus. Renegade knights could be included in a Chaos Cultists codex similar to the Forgeworld Renegades.

WatcherZero wrote:
Imperial Agents or Agents of the Throne would also be good titles but they may just go with a simple Inquisition title.

I cant see Imperial Knights getting their own codex after being in Adeptus Mechanicus. Renegade knights could be included in a Chaos Cultists codex similar to the Forgeworld Renegades.

The Adeptus Mechanicus book covered those sworn to the Adeptus Mechanicus.

I absolutely 100% can see a Knights book since there are also Imperial sworn Houses and Freeblades.

 Kanluwen wrote:

WatcherZero wrote:
Imperial Agents or Agents of the Throne would also be good titles but they may just go with a simple Inquisition title.

I cant see Imperial Knights getting their own codex after being in Adeptus Mechanicus. Renegade knights could be included in a Chaos Cultists codex similar to the Forgeworld Renegades.

The Adeptus Mechanicus book covered those sworn to the Adeptus Mechanicus.

I absolutely 100% can see a Knights book since there are also Imperial sworn Houses and Freeblades.

I, for one, am very excited for my Mechanicus Knights to be Strictly Worse than Imperial or Freeblade Knights.

I think its more likely that Custodes, Sister of Silence, Ministorum, Sisters of Battle, Assassins and Inquisition will all be one book.

Knight I could see as staying their own.

 Sim-Life wrote:
I think its more likely that Custodes, Sister of Silence, Ministorum, Sisters of Battle, Assassins and Inquisition will all be one book.

Knight I could see as staying their own.

Can I dream about SoB being the last Codex released for 8th, with a new nice plastic range to go with it?

Can I?

You can dream but it would turn into a waking nightmare when 9th launches a month later, GW waffles on the core changes in 8th so 9th is a top down overhaul needing indexes again, invalidating the SoB book after 4 short weeks. Oh, and the plastic range would launch with the book like Death Guard and the blight hauler. Vapourware lol.

On the other hand maybe SoB launch after Daemons of Chaos. Who knows.

 Galas wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
I think its more likely that Custodes, Sister of Silence, Ministorum, Sisters of Battle, Assassins and Inquisition will all be one book.

Knight I could see as staying their own.

Can I dream about SoB being the last Codex released for 8th, with a new nice plastic range to go with it?

Can I?

There is a lot of precedent for SoB dropping right before the edition change.

The codex can be flaming poo if they drop my some sweet, sweet Sister of Battle plastic minatures. I started back in 4th Edition and the only new sisters models have been Celestine and the Geminae Superiors.