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 Crimson wrote:
So the vehicle design rules are actually literally just rules for customising Land Raiders... Seems pointlessly specific.

I'm sure this are they testing the waters. Is better to start small to see how the system works and how the players break it. Then you can expand.

Voss wrote:

 gigasnail wrote:
Chapter approved up for pre order Nov 25.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/11/18/get-ready-chapter-approved-nov-18gw-homepage-post-3/

Nope. Nope. Nope.
So much for any hope of 8th becoming sane and rational once codex releases started.

From a Chaos Titan-killer bristling with lascannons, to a Space Wolves assault vehicle armed with both helfrost and inferno cannons, there’s a huge range of possibilities available.

Yep. All sorts of possibilities than involving making transport capacity as small as possible and killing ability as large as possible for the fewest points. What a fantastic idea.

This is Narrative only. So calm down your tits budy.

Yeah the VDR thing that was hinted at is in fact laughably specific. It's barely a change at all.

Bring on the news of what's actually going to be different!

Mandragola wrote:
Yeah the VDR thing that was hinted at is in fact laughably specific. It's barely a change at all.

Bring on the news of what's actually going to be different!

Did you actually pay attention to when the CA was announced?

Because they specifically called it out as VDR for Land Raider chassis. They didn't imply or state or hint or anything that there would be generic VDR rules.

Mandragola wrote:
Yeah the VDR thing that was hinted at is in fact laughably specific. It's barely a change at all.

Bring on the news of what's actually going to be different!

When they announced the VDR they told you exactly what it was going to be. we knew this already.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
Yeah the VDR thing that was hinted at is in fact laughably specific. It's barely a change at all.

Bring on the news of what's actually going to be different!

Did you actually pay attention to when the CA was announced?

Because they specifically called it out as VDR for Land Raider chassis. They didn't imply or state or hint or anything that there would be generic VDR rules.

No not really. I don't really care about it. Like I said, bring on the changes that matter!

 Galas wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
So the vehicle design rules are actually literally just rules for customising Land Raiders... Seems pointlessly specific.

I'm sure this are they testing the waters. Is better to start small to see how the system works and how the players break it. Then you can expand.

Voss wrote:

 gigasnail wrote:
Chapter approved up for pre order Nov 25.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/11/18/get-ready-chapter-approved-nov-18gw-homepage-post-3/

Nope. Nope. Nope.
So much for any hope of 8th becoming sane and rational once codex releases started.

From a Chaos Titan-killer bristling with lascannons, to a Space Wolves assault vehicle armed with both helfrost and inferno cannons, there’s a huge range of possibilities available.

Yep. All sorts of possibilities than involving making transport capacity as small as possible and killing ability as large as possible for the fewest points. What a fantastic idea.

This is Narrative only. So calm down your tits budy.

Dosen't seem to be too much of an over reaction given helfrost and inferno cannons on a Landraider would be an absolute nightmare to deal with even if the thing did cost over 1k in points. Not to mention you may have the ability to drop all transport capabilities to add a stupid amount of weaponery.

When they first announced it I assumed Land Raiders were just an example, as it would be completely stupid to publish rules for customising Land Raiders only. Oh well...

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
So the vehicle design rules are actually literally just rules for customising Land Raiders... Seems pointlessly specific.

I'm sure this are they testing the waters. Is better to start small to see how the system works and how the players break it. Then you can expand.

Voss wrote:

 gigasnail wrote:
Chapter approved up for pre order Nov 25.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/11/18/get-ready-chapter-approved-nov-18gw-homepage-post-3/

Nope. Nope. Nope.
So much for any hope of 8th becoming sane and rational once codex releases started.

From a Chaos Titan-killer bristling with lascannons, to a Space Wolves assault vehicle armed with both helfrost and inferno cannons, there’s a huge range of possibilities available.

Yep. All sorts of possibilities than involving making transport capacity as small as possible and killing ability as large as possible for the fewest points. What a fantastic idea.

This is Narrative only. So calm down your tits budy.

Dosen't seem to be too much of an over reaction given helfrost and inferno cannons on a Landraider would be an absolute nightmare to deal with even if the thing did cost over 1k in points. Not to mention you may have the ability to drop all transport capabilities to add a stupid amount of weaponery.

Isn't this stuff all just narrative and open play only? The article specifically calls out open play when talking about customizing land raiders and never once says that this will be a matched play thing. Seems like unless you play narrative and open exclusively, there shouldn't be much of an issue with this.

 Crimson wrote:
When they first announced it I assumed Land Raiders were just an example, as it would be completely stupid to publish rules for customising Land Raiders only. Oh well...

From Warhammer Community:

We are also bringing a whole new feature to Open Play. Designing and building your own vehicles is a feature that hasn’t appeared in Warhammer 40,000 since 5th Edition. We are going to trial some new rules to allow you to design your very own Land Raider variants and field these behemoths on the battlefields of the 41st Millennium.

Definitely not 'just an example'.

 Galas wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
So the vehicle design rules are actually literally just rules for customising Land Raiders... Seems pointlessly specific.

I'm sure this are they testing the waters. Is better to start small to see how the system works and how the players break it. Then you can expand.

Given that these are the third or fourth variation on VDR rules, they should have worked out how the system should work, and how players will break it (2nd ed. 2pt Land Raiders IIRC!) literally years ago.

Are people really that upset over an Open Play Trial run?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Are people really that upset over an Open Play Trial run?

I think its a double whammy of people not reading, and people not being able to read.

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
So the vehicle design rules are actually literally just rules for customising Land Raiders... Seems pointlessly specific.

I'm sure this are they testing the waters. Is better to start small to see how the system works and how the players break it. Then you can expand.

Given that these are the third or fourth variation on VDR rules, they should have worked out how the system should work, and how players will break it (2nd ed. 2pt Land Raiders IIRC!) literally years ago.

They are optimistics who think it might actually work when any design that works on formula\s is 100% quaranteed to fail utterly in balancing.

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
So the vehicle design rules are actually literally just rules for customising Land Raiders... Seems pointlessly specific.

I'm sure this are they testing the waters. Is better to start small to see how the system works and how the players break it. Then you can expand.

Given that these are the third or fourth variation on VDR rules, they should have worked out how the system should work, and how players will break it (2nd ed. 2pt Land Raiders IIRC!) literally years ago.

Lol how did they manage to get 2pt land raiders, that sounds hilarious.

There was some option or other that reduced the cost, like slowing it down or making it open topped or something and someone decided to spam that as much as possible…
The only problem was, of course, that the VDR explicitly was absolute WYSIWYG, even more than the regular game rules, so all the hypothetical hundred-bolter open-topped rolling walls would never actually see play without a lot of effort which is not the sort of thing that the people that come up with this kind of junk are generally prepared to do…

So far, those pictures seem to limit customization to two large sponsons, two smaller (predator) sponsons, and a front mounted twin-linked weapon of some sort.

I certainly hope there's rules for fun stuff like mounting a Demolisher Cannon or the like.

Sounds kind of cool, but I must admit I also hoped to see more than just Land Raiders. And apply Chaos tears here for being obviously only loyalist Land Raiders. Would've been nice to see destroyer blades return, but I'll be patient then .

I just want Ork points reductions. Take my money!

Would be nice if they allowed me to build a transport-only Raider with, like, 20-regular marines/10 termies capacity...

Can I mount a Vulcan Mega Bolter on a Land Raider?

I think what people are missing quite a bit - with the VDR rules being aimed solely at Open War...you can just VDR your own stuff. Don't be a witch about it, and make the points reasonable (test it a few games and get feedback). There's absolutely nothing stopping you from designing your own stuff.

I've considered doing some of the older Eldar Epic tanks in 40K. Would be really easy to come up with the rules. Just make sure to tag on 5-10% additional cost as a kind of tax for creating your own unit.

Personally I am very curious to see how this will apply to other factions (assuming we actually get these rules for anything beyond Space Marines of course). Obviously Imperium and Chaos stuff will work given their plethora of options. Orks could have a ton of fun with this stuff. Eldar could probably make some use of these rules, as could Dark Eldar (although I don't really know enough about their vehicle rules and set ups to say that for certain). Tyranids likely are right out of getting anything like this. Tau and Necrons are gonna be tricky if they do get this stuff. I can't speak much about current Necrons but I believe their vehicles don't really have enough options to really make use of this. Same for Tau, I know that there really isn't anything we can do with our vehicles without drastically changing how our vehicles are designed.

Ah, who am I kidding. This is probably just gonna be a Space Marines thing (maybe full Imperium getting it and Chaos as well if GW is feeling super generous). Xenos won't see anything from this for years probably, if ever.

 Elbows wrote:
I think what people are missing quite a bit - with the VDR rules being aimed solely at Open War...you can just VDR your own stuff. Don't be a witch about it, and make the points reasonable (test it a few games and get feedback). There's absolutely nothing stopping you from designing your own stuff.

Kind of defeats the object of having a VDR set in the first place though, doesn't it..?

If you can design your own stuff without needing them covered by the VDR and playtest it yourself (which you can, and have obviously always been able to do), why are GW trying to sell us VDR?

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
I think what people are missing quite a bit - with the VDR rules being aimed solely at Open War...you can just VDR your own stuff. Don't be a witch about it, and make the points reasonable (test it a few games and get feedback). There's absolutely nothing stopping you from designing your own stuff.

Kind of defeats the object of having a VDR set in the first place though, doesn't it..?

If you can design your own stuff without needing them covered by the VDR and playtest it yourself (which you can, and have obviously always been able to do), why are GW trying to sell us VDR?

They aren't trying to sell you anything. They are just giving again funny rules to make your own custom Land Raiders and probably other vehicles in the future to use in narrative and open games. I know for many people only "Matched Play" exist, but this is exactly the kind of things they need to do to expand Narrative (And Open) in their own thing, instead of "Matched but with Powerlevels"

I think GW also know their target audience. GW is one of the only companies which has such a hold on maybe half of their customers. I see people appearing terrified of actually making up their own scenarios, or adjusting rules, or buying their own non-GW tape measures.

 Elbows wrote:
I think GW also know their target audience. GW is one of the only companies which has such a hold on maybe half of their customers. I see people appearing terrified of actually making up their own scenarios, or adjusting rules, or buying their own non-GW tape measures.

What's the point of making up rules? Why not make up the rule "I win"?

If you win after making up an unbalanced rule, did you win or did the rule?

I'm slightly worried they didn't mention points changing in the writeup about what Chapter Aprove is bringing. Hopefully that's still a thing

I think this is the problem with a lot of people, they’re all about min/maxing everything, GW has given some vehicle design rules for open play so if you like you and your buddies can make up your own land raider variant and have some fun with it, even throw it in to your own made narrative campaign, maybe your friends genestealer cults stole all of the las cannons so your marines fitted extra bolters on to their land raiders, it’s there for fun and nothing else, or they could have not bothered, left the few pages in chapter approved that the VDR will take up and still sell the book for the same price.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I'm slightly worried they didn't mention points changing in the writeup about what Chapter Aprove is bringing. Hopefully that's still a thing

Well this wasn't really a write up about Chapter Approved, this was a write up about the customizable Land Raider rules, which happen to be coming in Chapter Approved. Given that Chapter Approved is meant to be the annual(?) official balance release for 40k, I can't imagine they won't do it like AoS's General Handbook and include points adjustments. Odds are we'll get a release in the next week that will talk about the other stuff in Chapter Approved, today's release was just a teaser for something unique and exciting coming in the book to hype it up for everyone rather than just those of us interested in the balance changes.

Yes. We'll most likely see an article a day, each covering a different aspect of the new Chapter Approved.