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I'm planning to take several LRs in my Guard army and was wondering if Sponson weapons are worth their cost (16-40 points, depending) in general, and in specific.

I was expecting to take heavy bolters, specifically.

Would lacking sponsons represent a significant liability?

M.

I really like heavy bolter sponsons. They're cheap and with that AP-1 and 6 shots, can be just useful enough to help squinch off an extra wound on a tank or put down an extra infantryman. 16pts for two Heavy Bolters is pretty reasonable.

Multimeltas are painfully expensive. To my mind, heavy flamers on a Russ are way too expensive as well. Plasma cannons are another good option however, they're not cheap but they're not quite as bad as MM's and they're a bit more versatile and more importantly work just as well at 36" as at 12".

 Infantryman wrote:
I'm planning to take several LRs in my Guard army and was wondering if Sponson weapons are worth their cost (16-40 points, depending) in general, and in specific.

I was expecting to take heavy bolters, specifically.

Would lacking sponsons represent a significant liability?

M.

You already pay a lot of points for the platform, not taking sponsons is more of a liability. Always take at least the heavy bolters. You’re a t8 platform, take advantage of it.

When I'm deciding what loadouts to use (my stuff is magnetized), I look at my list as a whole first. Specifically, how many tanks am I taking? The problem being, that if you are only rocking 2 LRs and maybe some artillery, your tanks may not last very long, so I would only take bare bones at that point. I have been squeezing 4 into my lists recently and at that point, I give them all sponsons so the enemy's damage is spread around and I get more chances to use their sponson weapons.

I think it really depends on multiple factors:

- are we talking about pask or a tank commander? Go for it
- normal russes: especially if you move not really worth imo (hitting on 5s sucks^^)
- if you are Tallarn, go for it

For a paltry 24 points I think the 3 heavy bolters are worth it no matter which platform you choose, especially if you have a tank commander around or use Cadian doctrine. I do not think the heavy flamer is worth it, I always used to take it when it was free but now I find myself wishing I'd magnetized them. Plasma cannons don't excite me in 8th, lascannon are great but expensive, and I have yet to use a multi melta in this edition.

My experience so far with a Punisher and a standard Russ both with maxed out heavy bolters has been very positive. Since the codex dropped they've been in a heated battle for army MVP every game.

I've had really great success with my Catachan punisher with heavy flamers all around though. It's pretty expensive BUT I've taken out just about anything that's gotten within flamer range of the thing in 1 go.

I would pretty much always take sponsons. HBs if you're a ranged russ, HFs if you're a close-ranged slugger build russ.

HFs seem expensive, but a weapon that doesn't degrade when you're damaged, auto-hits and bypasses all negative hit modifiers, and auto-hits on overwatch is extremely valuable.

I pretty much agree with everyone here. No reason not to take the heavy bolter sponsons.

I'm usually not worried about firing overwatch with my tanks so that's why I'm skipping the expensive heavy flamer option. I love my guardsmen, and I genuinely try to minimize their losses in game, but when a charge against one of my precious Leman Russ tanks is imminent I do not hesitate to order them to lay down their lives in front of the enemy, sacrificing entire platoons if necessary. My gaming group refers to this as "war crimes" but I don't see it that way...

Alright, I'll take them. I forgot about magnetizing, though from what I remember that requires putting one inside the track piece - this is already built so I'll just glue it on.

The one tank I have so far is just a normal Russ, though my baseline list does have three other tanks (One of which is a normal Russ, the other two are in question right now - was to be a Vanquisher and an Exterminator but evidently those are Not Good).

M.

It really depends on the tank and the situation. If you're running a company the sponsons can quite easily add up to a whole extra tank over time. With a smaller number of tanks though this is less of an issue. As an infantry player I tend to always take sponsons now. They're just extra firepower that I need and with only a few tanks it doesn't add up to too much. A person taking a tank company however would need to heavily consider how much he wants sponsons on the other hand. 10 sets of heavy bolter sponsons for example is another leman russ.

Also depends on your regiment and what type of tank you have. For example, Plasma cannons come into their own on Catachan, Cadian, and Tallarn tanks all for completely different reasons. Catachans can reroll the shots, Cadians can reroll the ones natively, and Tallarn can move and shoot without making the plasma a 1 and 2 mortal wounds. You could also consider things like Valhallans ignoring extra wounds, so for them moving and shooting with plasma cannons isn't as much of a big deal. You also need to consider the variant, for example an Executioner will synergize better with plasma cannons than a Punisher would.

You can make a point for pretty much all of them in certain situations in my opinion. Heck a demolisher with heavy flamers as a Catachan tank would be pretty scary for example, while on a Cadian tank that'd be a ridiculously stupid loadout.

Basically look at what your tanks need to do, what your regiment is, and build them towards that. Magnetize everything. If you haven't, crack the glue apart and then go and magnetize everything. Your wallet will thank you.

I'd say either Plasma Cannons or Heavy Bolters. None of the other ones look like they're worth it.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'd say either Plasma Cannons or Heavy Bolters. None of the other ones look like they're worth it.

I would agree with this and treat Plasma Cannons as an upgrade to the HBs, reserving them for higher BS tanks if points are an issue. I would never take flamers on a Russ because there is no way I want it that close to anything. MMs have a place on a Command Demolisher with a Lascannon I think, if you want a tank that just deletes singe targets at 24", but I wouldn't use them on anything else. All that said, I would always take HB sponsons at the very least.

I'd stick with HBs or plasma cannons. But I think I'd only bother with sponsons on tank commanders or better. Otherwise you're hitting on 5s (or are tallarn).

I regularly play on boards with many 10 cm gaps. Most vehicles will pass through these, but a Leman Russ with sponsons will not.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
It really depends on the tank and the situation. If you're running a company the sponsons can quite easily add up to a whole extra tank over time. With a smaller number of tanks though this is less of an issue. As an infantry player I tend to always take sponsons now. They're just extra firepower that I need and with only a few tanks it doesn't add up to too much. A person taking a tank company however would need to heavily consider how much he wants sponsons on the other hand. 10 sets of heavy bolter sponsons for example is another leman russ.

It might get you another Leman Russ, but I'm curious - with the way blast and ordinance weapons have been neutered in this current edition of the rules, would the extra tank REALLY be more valuable than the extra shots from all the sponson weapons? What would one extra (sponsonless tank) bring to the table that the combined weight of sponson weapon fire couldn't? Obviously it's more wounds, another model to take objectives/soak up fire etc, but I question if the points are better spent on the sponsons if you want stuff dead.

 Raichase wrote:
It might get you another Leman Russ, but I'm curious - with the way blast and ordinance weapons have been neutered in this current edition of the rules, would the extra tank REALLY be more valuable than the extra shots from all the sponson weapons? What would one extra (sponsonless tank) bring to the table that the combined weight of sponson weapon fire couldn't? Obviously it's more wounds, another model to take objectives/soak up fire etc, but I question if the points are better spent on the sponsons if you want stuff dead.

Keep in mind turret weapons will usually be firing twice. And don't forget the hull weapon.

The hull weapons should almost always be a las cannon.

 Xenomancers wrote:
The hull weapons should almost always be a las cannon.

You know I tried that, but I found they mostly missed. If they move its a 33% chance and even when they stand still its only 50%. I just do not feel its worth the extra 12 points. Have you had better success?

 Raichase wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
It really depends on the tank and the situation. If you're running a company the sponsons can quite easily add up to a whole extra tank over time. With a smaller number of tanks though this is less of an issue. As an infantry player I tend to always take sponsons now. They're just extra firepower that I need and with only a few tanks it doesn't add up to too much. A person taking a tank company however would need to heavily consider how much he wants sponsons on the other hand. 10 sets of heavy bolter sponsons for example is another leman russ.

It might get you another Leman Russ, but I'm curious - with the way blast and ordinance weapons have been neutered in this current edition of the rules, would the extra tank REALLY be more valuable than the extra shots from all the sponson weapons? What would one extra (sponsonless tank) bring to the table that the combined weight of sponson weapon fire couldn't? Obviously it's more wounds, another model to take objectives/soak up fire etc, but I question if the points are better spent on the sponsons if you want stuff dead.

Depends on what you want to do and what regiment you have. Valhallans for example are better with the additional tank, they last far longer at normal capacity than other regiments so having more tanks for them is more powerful as those tanks will keep firing at full effect. Tallarn on the other hand, I'd probably go with the sponsons, as you can make better use of them on the move.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
The hull weapons should almost always be a las cannon.

You know I tried that, but I found they mostly missed. If they move its a 33% chance and even when they stand still its only 50%. I just do not feel its worth the extra 12 points. Have you had better success?

I've had pretty solid success with Las cannons on my tanks. Definitely worth it.

pismakron wrote:
I regularly play on boards with many 10 cm gaps. Most vehicles will pass through these, but a Leman Russ with sponsons will not.

Haha that sounds a lot like our tables The "how you are supposed to get where you want" issue with sponsons

pismakron wrote:
I regularly play on boards with many 10 cm gaps. Most vehicles will pass through these, but a Leman Russ with sponsons will not.

Nothing says you can't tilt your Leman Russ on it side. EXTREME DRIFT

Leman Russes are already pretty pricey as they come, so, if fielded, I think it's best to maximize their damage outpout and cut down points on other stuff, like infantry and Ogryns.

I use the Lascannon + 2 Heavy Bolters combo on Battle Tanks for more versatility, Heavy Bolter + 2 Heavy Bolters combo on Punishers for pure anti-infantry munch, and the 3 Heavy flamers combo on Demolishers. The latter is very expensive, but seeing how Demolishers have to drive really close to the enemy in order to shoot anyway, and thus will most likely get charged, 3W6 S5 autohits on overwatch make for effective countermeasure, especially if Catachan.

At this point in time:

Heavy Bolter Sponsons: They're cheap, and they've got 36" of range. The question is if they're going to have anything to shoot at. They're worth considering for multirole tanks, and are definitely an add-on to give to anti-infantry tanks. I'd pass on them for AT Tanks, though.
Heavy Flamer Sponsons: Like Heavy Bolters, but with crap for range. Consider only for short-range tanks, and even then consider it hard, because Heavy Bolters are half the price.
Multimelta Sponsons: Consider for AT tank, but be wary of their range and general lack of performance for cost. At 40 points, you could have bought another squad of riflemen, and are a third of the way to a Manticore. Unless you're going tank hunting, pass.
Plasma Cannons: I personally wouldn't bother. They're kind of expensive, I like not taking 6 Mortal Wounds, and while they theoretically complement some Main Gun options, I really don't see purpose for them.

With regards to hull guns:
If it's going to kill infantry, Heavy Bolter, otherwise, Lascannon. As someone said, for short range tanks, maybe a Heavy Flamer.

As a rule, your Leman Russ isn't going to be moving very far very fast. It'll probably sit around in one place until it needs to capture an objective, since the Battle Cannon and Lascannon let it do that. Short range sponsons force it to move around, which it doesn't really want to be doing anyway, since that doesn't play nice with the ballistic skill.

My preference would be either no sponsons or Heavy Bolter sponsons.

I know some doctrines theoretically get more mileage out of other stuff (e.g. Vostroyans for 30" Multi Meltas), however, that's too many points into one tank for my tastes.

I much prefer having many cheap(ish), bare-bones Russes to having fewer ones with more guns.

Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:At this point in time:

Heavy Bolter Sponsons: They're cheap, and they've got 36" of range. The question is if they're going to have anything to shoot at. They're worth considering for multirole tanks, and are definitely an add-on to give to anti-infantry tanks. I'd pass on them for AT Tanks, though.
Heavy Flamer Sponsons: Like Heavy Bolters, but with crap for range. Consider only for short-range tanks, and even then consider it hard, because Heavy Bolters are half the price.
Multimelta Sponsons: Consider for AT tank, but be wary of their range and general lack of performance for cost. At 40 points, you could have bought another squad of riflemen, and are a third of the way to a Manticore. Unless you're going tank hunting, pass.
Plasma Cannons: I personally wouldn't bother. They're kind of expensive, I like not taking 6 Mortal Wounds, and while they theoretically complement some Main Gun options, I really don't see purpose for them.

With regards to hull guns:
If it's going to kill infantry, Heavy Bolter, otherwise, Lascannon. As someone said, for short range tanks, maybe a Heavy Flamer.

As a rule, your Leman Russ isn't going to be moving very far very fast. It'll probably sit around in one place until it needs to capture an objective, since the Battle Cannon and Lascannon let it do that. Short range sponsons force it to move around, which it doesn't really want to be doing anyway, since that doesn't play nice with the ballistic skill.

The ones I have on my list right now all use HB (for all options) except the TC which has a lascannon hull and Plasma sponsons (are lascannon sponsons just not a thing anymore?) It sounds to me like I should not do that to my TC?

vipoid wrote:My preference would be either no sponsons or Heavy Bolter sponsons.

I know some doctrines theoretically get more mileage out of other stuff (e.g. Vostroyans for 30" Multi Meltas), however, that's too many points into one tank for my tastes.

I much prefer having many cheap(ish), bare-bones Russes to having fewer ones with more guns.

Barebones includes sponsons in this case?

I have one tank (Standard LR) assembled so far (busy weekend and I had to do work on infantry and their Chimera) with unattached HBs - I probably should have magnetized it for future proofing but I forgot that was A Thing. Tank 2 is waiting for my attention and will also be a standard LR with the HBs. They really are pretty cheap at only 8, so no sweat. And it's not like there exists an opponent where a heavy bolter will be completely useless!

Shame on the other options, though; you'd think playtesting would yield a game where options are actual options, not space filler. FWIW at some point in the future I intend to field Malcador tanks, which evidently come with Heavy Stubber (!) sponsons!

Related: Cupola Heavy Stubbers - yeah or nah? They come with Chimera kits (but not the damned Track Guards because of course not), but not my tank kits. I figure I'll get the accessory sprues anyways for all the other Bitz that might come in handy (I want my command tank to have lots of antennas), but should the Stubber be of consideration?

M.

 Infantryman wrote:
Barebones includes sponsons in this case?

Bare Bones is literally just the turret weapon and single Heavy Bolter. No sponsons.

However, I only own 2 Leman Russ tanks at the moment, so saving points on sponsons and such only gets me so far in terms of how many I can include. Hence, I'd probably consider taking cheap sponsons on those, since no amount of scrimping on upgrades will get me a third at the moment.

 Infantryman wrote:

Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:At this point in time:

Heavy Bolter Sponsons: They're cheap, and they've got 36" of range. The question is if they're going to have anything to shoot at. They're worth considering for multirole tanks, and are definitely an add-on to give to anti-infantry tanks. I'd pass on them for AT Tanks, though.
Heavy Flamer Sponsons: Like Heavy Bolters, but with crap for range. Consider only for short-range tanks, and even then consider it hard, because Heavy Bolters are half the price.
Multimelta Sponsons: Consider for AT tank, but be wary of their range and general lack of performance for cost. At 40 points, you could have bought another squad of riflemen, and are a third of the way to a Manticore. Unless you're going tank hunting, pass.
Plasma Cannons: I personally wouldn't bother. They're kind of expensive, I like not taking 6 Mortal Wounds, and while they theoretically complement some Main Gun options, I really don't see purpose for them.

With regards to hull guns:
If it's going to kill infantry, Heavy Bolter, otherwise, Lascannon. As someone said, for short range tanks, maybe a Heavy Flamer.

As a rule, your Leman Russ isn't going to be moving very far very fast. It'll probably sit around in one place until it needs to capture an objective, since the Battle Cannon and Lascannon let it do that. Short range sponsons force it to move around, which it doesn't really want to be doing anyway, since that doesn't play nice with the ballistic skill.

The ones I have on my list right now all use HB (for all options) except the TC which has a lascannon hull and Plasma sponsons (are lascannon sponsons just not a thing anymore?) It sounds to me like I should not do that to my TC?

Hell no, if a tank is going to have Plasma Cannons, the last tank it should be is the Command Tank.

All things considered, I think Leman Russes and Tank Commanders are second-tier units anyway. If the difference between the sponsons, with some notable exceptions, is that important, than the 20 point difference between a Leman Russ and a Manticore is more important. Company Commanders, Manticores, and Infantry are way, way better. Even Conscripts are still pretty good.


I don't really like Sponsons, since when push comes to shove, I'd rather buy more infantry or somesuch for the cost, because for 40-odd points a rifle squad will go way further than a set or two of sponsons. The exception is when I'm trying to cheese small points games by fielding exclusively tanks, at which point buying Sponsons is definitely a to-do since a full set of sponsons across all the tanks will generally go farther than what ever else Icould bring.

 Infantryman wrote:

vipoid wrote:My preference would be either no sponsons or Heavy Bolter sponsons.

I know some doctrines theoretically get more mileage out of other stuff (e.g. Vostroyans for 30" Multi Meltas), however, that's too many points into one tank for my tastes.

I much prefer having many cheap(ish), bare-bones Russes to having fewer ones with more guns.

Barebones includes sponsons in this case?

I have one tank (Standard LR) assembled so far (busy weekend and I had to do work on infantry and their Chimera) with unattached HBs - I probably should have magnetized it for future proofing but I forgot that was A Thing. Tank 2 is waiting for my attention and will also be a standard LR with the HBs. They really are pretty cheap at only 8, so no sweat. And it's not like there exists an opponent where a heavy bolter will be completely useless!

Shame on the other options, though; you'd think playtesting would yield a game where options are actual options, not space filler. FWIW at some point in the future I intend to field Malcador tanks, which evidently come with Heavy Stubber (!) sponsons!

Related: Cupola Heavy Stubbers - yeah or nah? They come with Chimera kits (but not the damned Track Guards because of course not), but not my tank kits. I figure I'll get the accessory sprues anyways for all the other Bitz that might come in handy (I want my command tank to have lots of antennas), but should the Stubber be of consideration?

M.

Cupola Storm Bolters yes, yes, yes, at 2 points I basically auto-take them. Heavy Stubbers? Probably pass.