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 Trade_Prince wrote:
Spoilers for Devastation of Baal and some DA stuff as well.

Spoiler:

There is internal strive between the new DA Primaris and the Inner Circle. I doubt Primaris will end up on the losing side being the new GW poster boys. Meanwhile, Devastation of Baal sees about 8 or 9 BA successors die off, BA reduced to 300 members, all named characters being alive however, Dante being made Commander of Imperium Nihilus (northern side of the Rift), but it also says that Primaris BA show no signs of the Red Thirst. It was also mentioned that Cawl fixed the Canis Helix, meaning no Primaris Wulfen or wolf-like mutations.

While GW may go back on that, the image that exists right now is that the majority of BA and SW are Primaris and have literally nothing that makes them stand out compared to UM and DA being at odds with the Primaris. Could this be indicative of the future that the legacy of the Primarchs will be moved to the background with the classic Marines in order to make way for a homogenous Primaris army, making them truly Stormcasts of 40k? For those who don't know, even though there are plenty of interesting Stormhosts, all use the same rules, aka vanilla Stormcasts, and the only two named characters are of that vanilla Stormhost.

And finally there is the fact that there are no named Primaris models and most unique characters are made from resin. Resin will die sooner or later, but will GW ever do releases for classic Marines? We have no official fluff source stating an upgrade from Marine to Primaris is possible, outside of a facebook post, which probably was a PR move to calm down marauding Marine fans.

In light of that development, do you think GW is truly moving to a homogenous SM army, leaving the different flavours behind, or is the "New GW" more clever that one could anticipate and bring those legacies back in their full glory?

I've been saying this should be the reaction quite often since the release of the Primaris, positively surprised GW went down that path. Now let's see how the Black Dragons react!

 Vaktathi wrote:
Hrm, I would question this analogy. First, many of the chapters in question are ostensibly Codex adherent in the first place (Dark Angels and Blood Angels and their successors). Second, for the most part, they all share the same equipment (a Space Wolf predator and an Ultramarines Predator or a Dark Angels predator are all the exact same vehicle, a Baal predator has a simple weapon swap and a souped up engine but is otherwise identical, they all wear the same Marks of power armor, their Boltguns are all largely the same, etc), and all have insanely huge logistic requirements for even the smallest of operations and build everything on similar patterns. Third, at least with Space Marine chapters, we're talking about a very small number of very small fighting forces that don't really have separate branches, that can take years or decades to replace even the most trivial of losses and take years, centuries or millenia for changes in equipment or doctrine or whatnot to filter through.

Really, for the most part, comparing Space Marine chapters is much more akin to comparing two different special operations groups within the same military than comparing vastly different national militaries.

I would say the Dark Angels are, in spirit, the least Codex-adherent. They are still, for all intents and purposes, a Legion. The Blood Angels Successors answering the call of the Blood Angels deployed Legion-strength at Baal, at least hinting at who's actually in charge of the sons of Sanguinius (pure conjecture mind). The Ultramarines Successors showed no such kind of organisation in the defence of Ultramar against the 'Nids (though you could argue that as deploying a single company of UMs was all that was needed, they didn't need any help) or the Death Guard.

I'm not disagreeing tbh. You do say ostensibly adherent, so I'm just elaborating on that.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
Personally, I like the overtop-ness of Blood Angels and Space Wolves and I'm a big fan of the Santa Grimnar Sleigh. Although, I do understand why people don't like it.

I think Primaris are absolutely destroying the image of Space Marines. The whole point was that they were flawed. The irony of needing a demi-god to create a breed of post-humans to defend humanity because they can't do it themselves. And yet being so flawed that they become the thing that eventually will destroy humanity itself.

Primaris are way too clean, and high tech for 40K. They don't belong. Just like Tau.

The Intercessor models themselves are fine, and if GW just said "hey, we're re-doing the SM line in true scale" I'd be fine with it. But they introduced all this new fluff, added all this technology that isn't supposed to exist anymore. It simply does not fit. This is 40K, it's Fantasy in space, not Sci-fi. Give them chainswords and power fists, get them dirty and grimdark.

Keep technology out of 40K! This is the Dark Millennium, not the Renaissance Millennium.

Periods of Renaissance often follow dark/”backward” times though. Then after that, you tend to see Golden Ages and Industrial revolutions and gains.

While this doesn’t totally fit with GWs fluff of ripping the galaxy up again, it could be seen as a potential beacon of hope for the future of the Imperium – moving from dark times into brighter periods… Now, this will never fully happen because grimdark and it’s a wargame and a galaxy in flames, but, it could herald the next “steps” in the fluff.

As for Chapters losing their “uniqueness” I don’t think that’ll be the case, even with the advent of Primaris. Their organisation and their fighting styles etc will remain the same with or without Primaris – and so will generally remain the same on the table top. The only differences will be slight “advances” fluff wise for the “new generation” of marines that join the Chapters. Blood Angels will still likely be focused around fast moving assault, as they have specialised units for it and will thus stay that way on the table top. As will the Space Wolves. Their “pack mentality” will remain, even if they no longer have a chance of turning into Wulfen.

I think a lot of people get hung up on certain things in the fluff and then believe that those changes will have a drastic impact on how the army operates afterwards. Getting rid of the Black Rage, sure, it’ll mean a slow die out of the Death Company – but, as they’ve been wanting to cure themselves of the Black Rage since the days of the Horus Heresy, surely such an advancement would be welcomed by the Blood Angels? Even without the Black Rage, Blood Angels will still have the Sanguinary guard, Librarian Dreadnoughts and Baal preds etc. And, no matter what happens, the Dark Angels will always have more secrets somewhere, likewise the Wolves will still have Hellfrost galore and, for now, plenty of wolves to ride.

For me, while Space Marines could be rolled together in 1 codex, that codex would be massive. But, I still think it’d be doable. The things that keep each Chapter/Legion different is the fluff and a small amount of unique units/relics/rules. For all intent and purpose, you could even say Raven Guard and Blood Angels are the “same”. Both like jump packs, both like assassination via melee lightning strikes etc. However, their difference comes in certain units and their fluff – stealth vs essentially blood lust.
Updating models and introducing Primaris Marines isn’t going to change those underlying doctrines and specialisations.

Overall, I guess the Blood Angels have the “most to lose” via a loss of “genetic mutation” from a uniqueness point of view when compared to the Wolves and Dark Angels from a fluff perspective, but it isn’t going to change how their army looks and plays on the table top (unless GW drastically mess around with this – which isn’t likely). Plus, as we are seeing, even with Primaris “taking over”, there are still plenty of instances and conflict within the fluff in regards to the resistance Primaris are facing.

In my view, all Marines should have the same/similar basing when fielding armies – as, well, they are all Marines… Their differences come from the units they then add in around the core.

 Strg Alt wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I love primaris - old marines are already dead to me. I would love some more options on the characters but I just can't bring myself to play a space marine tike when I can take a primaris intercessor who actually looks imposing and powerful.

Secondis marines can't go fast enough if you ask me.

As far as chapters go. There are only a few I can take seriously. Considering these are supposed to be the imperials elite warriors. I would expect them to all be "chapter compliant" anything else is beyond imagination. Imagine a military force today where every "division" has some unique gimmick about it - it just sounds stupid doesn't it?

I'm not sure I hope this happens but I think it might happen. Guilliman is going to eventually phase out the non compliant chapters. It might make for a good bit of drama and game play as the forces of the imperium eliminate all the non compliant chapters who resist against the imperium and end up slaughtered. Then GW can take space marines in a different direction.

It is funny how attitudes change over a short period of time. Just a few months ago a lot of people would fight me tooth and nail about the notion of SM being eventually replaced by primaris. Nowadays it is a well accepted truth.

I'm willing to fight tooth and nail about it m8.

Trade_Prince wrote:
Now THIS I do not get at all. I see no redeeming features in the classic Marines, outside of chapter-specific iconography, when compared to Primaris. They are essentially the same just with better proprotions, appropriate size and being an all around better sculpt. I get nostalgia and I know how it can make something look far better, but c'mon this is supposed to be a superior model compares to this?

Man, I really like those Bolters.

Blackie wrote:

I admit it, size is their biggest problem, but I don't like the current GW policy about making everything huge. This combined to the asthetics of basic SM, which I never liked, makes me hate the primaris

GW's proportions have sucked for more than a decade. Hell I remember them making it worse back in WHFB 6/7, when the Perry-scuplted "true scale" Empire were inundated with those pumpkin-heads with the giant hands and feet that typify GW's "Heroic scale".

Malachon wrote:

As for the Primaris, I love the quality of the models. So much more detail, so much better proportioned. I would hope though that they do make future Primaris kits a bit darker, a bit less polished. It would fit with the narrative I think. When they arrived first, fresh from the assembly lines they were picture perfect marines. Identical weapons, perfectly polished armor. But after centuries of fighting, far away from the Forges of Mars, the equipment becomes less standard. They become indoctrinated more by the Chapters they joined., taking over iconography, different weapons. I was a bit disappointed by the Primaris tank. I think it looks too cluttered.

Are you implying GW does Character Development?

M.

 Trade_Prince wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
I've never been fond of the SM miniatures, but IMHO primaris are the worst GW models in decades along with guilliman. I really hope they won't phase out regular SM, especially the independent chapters.

The fact that GW didn't make primaris particularly competitive allows me to be optimistic about this matter.

Now THIS I do not get at all. I see no redeeming features in the classic Marines, outside of chapter-specific iconography, when compared to Primaris. They are essentially the same just with better proprotions, appropriate size and being an all around better sculpt. I get nostalgia and I know how it can make something look far better, but c'mon this is supposed to be a superior model compares to this?

Primaris are not appropriate size. You may think every marine is supposed to be 9 ft. tall, but that notion is inaccurate.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Trade_Prince wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
I've never been fond of the SM miniatures, but IMHO primaris are the worst GW models in decades along with guilliman. I really hope they won't phase out regular SM, especially the independent chapters.

The fact that GW didn't make primaris particularly competitive allows me to be optimistic about this matter.

Now THIS I do not get at all. I see no redeeming features in the classic Marines, outside of chapter-specific iconography, when compared to Primaris. They are essentially the same just with better proprotions, appropriate size and being an all around better sculpt. I get nostalgia and I know how it can make something look far better, but c'mon this is supposed to be a superior model compares to this?

Primaris are not appropriate size. You may think every marine is supposed to be 9 ft. tall, but that notion is inaccurate.

Space marines were supposed to be 7. Primaris 9.

Why isn't the identity of a Space Marine force up to the player creating it? I guess I don't follow much with the "I must have special units and special rules and must be different!" mentality.

They're Space Marines, they're cool enough.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

... Why do space marines get to be the exception when everyone else is stuck to one to 2 books per army type? ...

Why does Superman, Batman, Wonderwoman and Spiderman have so many comics? Why has just been released the 8th Assasin's Creed game? Because money.

I'll repeat myself. This vague idead that if GW screws over Space Marines it will give other armies more prime time is just absurd. If they screw someone, they screw it good and don't give a gak to anyone else.
Instead of demanding more attention directly to GW, people keeps hating and raging about Space Marines getting all the atention. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that is gonna have a positive result to the game.

 Galas wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

... Why do space marines get to be the exception when everyone else is stuck to one to 2 books per army type? ...

Why does Superman, Batman, Wonderwoman and Spiderman have so many comics? Why has just been released the 8th Assasin's Creed game? Because money.

I'll repeat myself. This vague idead that if GW screws over Space Marines it will give other armies more prime time is just absurd. If they screw someone, they screw it good and don't give a gak to anyone else.
Instead of demanding more attention directly to GW, people keeps hating and raging about Space Marines getting all the atention. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that is gonna have a positive result to the game.

The idea that giving other factions something is "screwing over" Space Marines is equally absurd - due to their fixation with Marines and then with a few specific Chapters they have flanderised them to a almost unrecognisable degree.

When they do give non marines attention they usually do well, but people crying that because the marines are not getting a Codex every month (just every other month) and 300 new units for the same three Chapters is a much less positive result.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

... Why do space marines get to be the exception when everyone else is stuck to one to 2 books per army type? ...

Why does Superman, Batman, Wonderwoman and Spiderman have so many comics? Why has just been released the 8th Assasin's Creed game? Because money.

I'll repeat myself. This vague idead that if GW screws over Space Marines it will give other armies more prime time is just absurd. If they screw someone, they screw it good and don't give a gak to anyone else.
Instead of demanding more attention directly to GW, people keeps hating and raging about Space Marines getting all the atention. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that is gonna have a positive result to the game.

The idea that giving other factions something is "screwing over" Space Marines is equally absurd - due to their fixation with Marines and then with a few specific Chapters they have flanderised them to a almost unrecognisable degree.

When they do give non marines attention they usually do well, but people crying that because the marines are not getting a Codex every month (just every other month) and 300 new units for the same three Chapters is a much less positive result.

I have never seen anyone say "Ogm, Genestealer Cultists?! Why are they releasing this instead of making a new version of Tacticals Marines?!"

But the opposite? Well. Just look at this thread. "If they erase all space marine codex and leave them with only 3, we will have more Codexes and miniature releases for other factions. I'm right? Eh? Anyone?"

 Galas wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

... Why do space marines get to be the exception when everyone else is stuck to one to 2 books per army type? ...

Why does Superman, Batman, Wonderwoman and Spiderman have so many comics? Why has just been released the 8th Assasin's Creed game? Because money.

I'll repeat myself. This vague idead that if GW screws over Space Marines it will give other armies more prime time is just absurd. If they screw someone, they screw it good and don't give a gak to anyone else.
Instead of demanding more attention directly to GW, people keeps hating and raging about Space Marines getting all the atention. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that is gonna have a positive result to the game.

The idea that giving other factions something is "screwing over" Space Marines is equally absurd - due to their fixation with Marines and then with a few specific Chapters they have flanderised them to a almost unrecognisable degree.

When they do give non marines attention they usually do well, but people crying that because the marines are not getting a Codex every month (just every other month) and 300 new units for the same three Chapters is a much less positive result.

I have never seen anyone say "Ogm, Genestealer Cultists?! Why are they releasing this instead of making a new version of Tacticals Marines?!"

But the opposite? Well. Just look at this thread. "If they erase all space marine codex and leave them with only 3, we will have more Codexes and miniature releases for other factions. I'm right? Eh? Anyone?"

Seen plenty of people saying when do Wolves, Angels of Bloody and Dark variants get there codexes -why do we have to wait for them etc - look at the 8th ed Codex release schedule - Its massively dominated by marines of various hues - the system is clogged by marines so that other stuff suffers - so they are less likely to sell and hence less likely to be invested in in favour of - well more Marines.

We are not even sure the Chapter Approved book will cover all the Factions without Codexes - but of the first three codexes in 2018 - how many are Marines - yep that's right 2.

 Elbows wrote:
Why isn't the identity of a Space Marine force up to the player creating it? I guess I don't follow much with the "I must have special units and special rules and must be different!" mentality.

They're Space Marines, they're cool enough.

Amen.

I'll be the first to admit, all those different tropes Marines now incorporate drew me away from what I loved about the setting when I started. Back then, I knew nothing of the Heresy, nothing about the SW wolf fetish or space Vampires. I knew nothing about space templars or space sharks. But you know what I knew about? Space Marines. This is a situation where the saying 'can't see the forest for the trees' applies very well. We are so hung up on who or what makes the different Chapters unique, that we lost sight of what they all are. Space Marines. Maybe the return to a more vanilla feel of Marines isn't so bad after all, if only to allow players to explore their avenues and make it about 'their dudes' instead of bickering who got the sillier trope to deal with.

Hm, went a bit on a tangent here. But good post and thanks for reminding me why I started 40k to begin with

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

... Why do space marines get to be the exception when everyone else is stuck to one to 2 books per army type? ...

Why does Superman, Batman, Wonderwoman and Spiderman have so many comics? Why has just been released the 8th Assasin's Creed game? Because money.

I'll repeat myself. This vague idead that if GW screws over Space Marines it will give other armies more prime time is just absurd. If they screw someone, they screw it good and don't give a gak to anyone else.
Instead of demanding more attention directly to GW, people keeps hating and raging about Space Marines getting all the atention. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that is gonna have a positive result to the game.

The idea that giving other factions something is "screwing over" Space Marines is equally absurd - due to their fixation with Marines and then with a few specific Chapters they have flanderised them to a almost unrecognisable degree.

When they do give non marines attention they usually do well, but people crying that because the marines are not getting a Codex every month (just every other month) and 300 new units for the same three Chapters is a much less positive result.

I have never seen anyone say "Ogm, Genestealer Cultists?! Why are they releasing this instead of making a new version of Tacticals Marines?!"

But the opposite? Well. Just look at this thread. "If they erase all space marine codex and leave them with only 3, we will have more Codexes and miniature releases for other factions. I'm right? Eh? Anyone?"

Seen plenty of people saying when do Wolves, Angels of Bloody and Dark variants get there codexes -why do we have to wait for them etc - look at the 8th ed Codex release schedule - Its massively dominated by marines of various hues - the system is clogged by marines so that other stuff suffers - so they are less likely to sell and hence less likely to be invested in in favour of - well more Marines.

We are not even sure the Chapter Approved book will cover all the Factions without Codexes - but of the first three codexes in 2018 - how many are Marines - yep that's right 2.

Actually the first Codex for 2018 are Daemons. Dark Angels and Blood Angels are gonna be for November-December.
Everybody was asking for a Codex to their army, they have all of his right to do so.

But I'm gonna insist that GW has never shown that a lack of Marine releases was translated in more releases for the rest.

 Galas wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

... Why do space marines get to be the exception when everyone else is stuck to one to 2 books per army type? ...

Why does Superman, Batman, Wonderwoman and Spiderman have so many comics? Why has just been released the 8th Assasin's Creed game? Because money.

I'll repeat myself. This vague idead that if GW screws over Space Marines it will give other armies more prime time is just absurd. If they screw someone, they screw it good and don't give a gak to anyone else.
Instead of demanding more attention directly to GW, people keeps hating and raging about Space Marines getting all the atention. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that is gonna have a positive result to the game.

The idea that giving other factions something is "screwing over" Space Marines is equally absurd - due to their fixation with Marines and then with a few specific Chapters they have flanderised them to a almost unrecognisable degree.

When they do give non marines attention they usually do well, but people crying that because the marines are not getting a Codex every month (just every other month) and 300 new units for the same three Chapters is a much less positive result.

I have never seen anyone say "Ogm, Genestealer Cultists?! Why are they releasing this instead of making a new version of Tacticals Marines?!"

But the opposite? Well. Just look at this thread. "If they erase all space marine codex and leave them with only 3, we will have more Codexes and miniature releases for other factions. I'm right? Eh? Anyone?"

Seen plenty of people saying when do Wolves, Angels of Bloody and Dark variants get there codexes -why do we have to wait for them etc - look at the 8th ed Codex release schedule - Its massively dominated by marines of various hues - the system is clogged by marines so that other stuff suffers - so they are less likely to sell and hence less likely to be invested in in favour of - well more Marines.

We are not even sure the Chapter Approved book will cover all the Factions without Codexes - but of the first three codexes in 2018 - how many are Marines - yep that's right 2.

Actually the first Codex for 2018 are Daemons. Dark Angels and Blood Angels are gonna be for November-December.
Everybody was asking for a Codex to their army, they have all of his right to do so.

But I'm gonna insist that GW has never shown that a lack of Marine releases was translated in more releases for the rest.

When was their ever a lack of marine releases - especially when you add in Forge World who also have a huge release schedule for marines and of course many of the special 30k vehicles get a 40k marine vesrsion unlike the 30k Custodes, Sisters of Silence etc. Thats just annoying and without good reason?

Good Chance Thousand Sons and Wolves follow Daemons to "balance the non Marine Codex."

My point is if you do spend some resources on things other than Marines - like say Necromunda, BloodBowl, Dark eldar in 5th, Genestealers in 7th - wierdly enough people wnat ot buy them. If you negelect factions and in some cases - Sisters don;t update the range in decades or even have models in the shops - then wierdly enough people don;t buy them.

 Insectum7 wrote:

Primaris are not appropriate size. You may think every marine is supposed to be 9 ft. tall, but that notion is inaccurate.

Marines are supposed to be 7 or 7 and half feet tall. And that is exactly how tall the Primaris are based on the model size when compared to IG and such.

Yeah, Primaris are out of scale with how big Primaris are in-universe, but they have the appropiate Space Marine-To Human size. They are true-scale marines.

 Galas wrote:
Yeah, Primaris are out of scale with how big Primaris are in-universe, but they have the appropiate Space Marine-To Human size. They are true-scale marines.

I don't think it has ever been said how tall the Primaris are supposed to be in-universe. They don't seem significantly bigger in the art. The nine feet figure is something people just made up.

 Crimson wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Yeah, Primaris are out of scale with how big Primaris are in-universe, but they have the appropiate Space Marine-To Human size. They are true-scale marines.

I don't think it has ever been said how tall the Primaris are supposed to be in-universe. They don't seem significantly bigger in the art. The nine feet figure is something people just made up.

We don't have numbers, just that they are normally a head taller than normal marines. But just like normal marines height, it will be very inconsistent througt all media.

 Crimson wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

Primaris are not appropriate size. You may think every marine is supposed to be 9 ft. tall, but that notion is inaccurate.

Marines are supposed to be 7 or 7 and half feet tall. And that is exactly how tall the Primaris are based on the model size when compared to IG and such.

This. The difference between Primaris and classic Marines do not mirror their real size changes and I feel it is a mistake for GW to make Primaris bigger in the fluff just because the models are bigger. They are true scale with a bit more efficiency inside of them. They aren't super-sized, if you ask me.

I'm just waiting for the 'true-scale primaris how-to' threads to start showing up in the modeling forum. *eyeroll*

 Galas wrote:


We don't have numbers, just that they are normally a head taller than normal marines. But just like normal marines height, it will be very inconsistent througt all media.

Where is this 'head taller' from? In any case, that would not make them nine feet tall either, unless they have two feet tall heads...

In the anniversary poster there doesn't seem to be significant size differnce between them, at glance you can't tell which marines are primaris and which are not. I'd say that maybe regular marines are on average seven feet tall while the primaris are seven and half or something like that.

^amazing art. This is how I imagine it. Just a bit taller as most refinements are internal.

Lexicanum wrote:The Primaris Marines differ from their standard cousins thanks to three additional Implants not found in the latter: Sinew Coils, the Magnificat, and the Belisarian Furnace. The implants, plus the benefits of more potent geneseed thanks to the Sangprimus Portum[5], allow the Primaris Marines to be larger and physically stronger than previous generations of Astartes.[3]

The source is the Dark Imperium novel. They don't specify, but they are bigger than normal marines. And that art kick ass, but as I said, if they reflex the size difference in that image they'll end looking very akward.

I personally like the look of the Primaris, while I think they're a completely useless release, I might have started an army of them if the fluff (and the regular Marine one) wasn't so awful. This might be a good occasion for GW to de-Flanderize their unique chapters, without removing their differences entirely, but from what I am reading, seems they messed it up already.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

Give them chainswords and power fists, get them dirty and grimdark.

Keep technology out of 40K! This is the Dark Millennium, not the Renaissance Millennium.

How are you gonna give everyone P-fist and chainswords if you keep tech out of 40K?

 Bobthehero wrote:
I personally like the look of the Primaris, while I think they're a completely useless release, I might have started an army of them if the fluff (and the regular Marine one) wasn't so awful. This might be a good occasion for GW to de-Flanderize their unique chapters, without removing their differences entirely, but from what I am reading, seems they messed it up already.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

Give them chainswords and power fists, get them dirty and grimdark.

Keep technology out of 40K! This is the Dark Millennium, not the Renaissance Millennium.

How are you gonna give everyone P-fist and chainswords if you keep tech out of 40K?

Things aren't anywhere yet. The original post is merely conjecture and the rest is wild speculation and hypebole. We have no idea as of yet and we probably will need to wait for a year or two until we know where it'll go.

 Crimson wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

Primaris are not appropriate size. You may think every marine is supposed to be 9 ft. tall, but that notion is inaccurate.

Marines are supposed to be 7 or 7 and half feet tall. And that is exactly how tall the Primaris are based on the model size when compared to IG and such.

Gonna need a pic for that, as it doesn't bear out with my impression.

Also, if they're the same size, why can't they travel in a Rhino?

Edit: At least we agree on marines being 7ish. The number of times i've seen people aiming for 8-9 for normal marines is wierd.

 Galas wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

... Why do space marines get to be the exception when everyone else is stuck to one to 2 books per army type? ...

Why does Superman, Batman, Wonderwoman and Spiderman have so many comics? Why has just been released the 8th Assasin's Creed game? Because money.

I'll repeat myself. This vague idead that if GW screws over Space Marines it will give other armies more prime time is just absurd. If they screw someone, they screw it good and don't give a gak to anyone else.
Instead of demanding more attention directly to GW, people keeps hating and raging about Space Marines getting all the atention. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that is gonna have a positive result to the game.

Did you miss the part in my post where over half of the current codexes are space Marines? To the point where with proper consolidation (all the chaos Marines one book, all the loyal marine books) we could have had Tau, Necrons, Orks, and Dark Eldar by now. You know, entire RACES compared to a 1,000 or so Space Marines?

Mind telling me how that isn't hurting the game? This is what causes "marinehammer" where half the time you go into a store it's hot marine on marine action. This is what causes one of the main antagonist factions, chaos, to not even represent half of the forces it's been stated as having for DECADES. Why on Earth are we getting codexes on death guard and thousand sons, forces already represented in the chaos codexes, when we have no chaos guard (not cultists, legit traitor guard with tanks), no chaos admech, and no chaos xenos? That is absolutely an example of a heavy marine focus hurting other armies that should be in the game. That's a legion of what, 20,000 Marines tops, completely knocking out millions of traitor guard and admech soldiers? Forces that are so common traitor guard is in 1/3rd of all the IG books out there? Heck the gaunts ghosts series have them as the primary adversary in several books. Yet they have no code and token forgeworld support.

This is what I'm going at. If there wasn't a death guard and thousand son codex we could've gotten a genestealer cult style update for IG so you could take them as chaos, since as it stands you can't even take traitor guard anymore as allies without forgeworld. Maybe even an identical release for admech. It's at least be something so people realize chaos isn't all space Marines and daemons.

 Galas wrote:



I'll repeat myself. This vague idead that if GW screws over Space Marines it will give other armies more prime time is just absurd. If they screw someone, they screw it good and don't give a gak to anyone else.

As a Squat player from RT, I can relate to the good ol' fashioned GW screwing. Every subsequent edition of the game has brought up feelings of pissed offness.

I love the Primaris Marines and I do hope that regulars don't go the way of the dodo (or squats for that matter).

If they do make all marines vanilla (i play Salamanders, so help them if they do anything to the Promethian Cult I'll flip),I will be angry and probably find another army to continue to purchase and play.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

Primaris are not appropriate size. You may think every marine is supposed to be 9 ft. tall, but that notion is inaccurate.

Marines are supposed to be 7 or 7 and half feet tall. And that is exactly how tall the Primaris are based on the model size when compared to IG and such.

Gonna need a pic for that, as it doesn't bear out with my impression.

Also, if they're the same size, why can't they travel in a Rhino?

This is a Dark Angels Chaplain:


To be honest I don't know the relation between meters and feets, but normal marines seem pretty big to me.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

... Why do space marines get to be the exception when everyone else is stuck to one to 2 books per army type? ...

Why does Superman, Batman, Wonderwoman and Spiderman have so many comics? Why has just been released the 8th Assasin's Creed game? Because money.

I'll repeat myself. This vague idead that if GW screws over Space Marines it will give other armies more prime time is just absurd. If they screw someone, they screw it good and don't give a gak to anyone else.
Instead of demanding more attention directly to GW, people keeps hating and raging about Space Marines getting all the atention. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that is gonna have a positive result to the game.

Did you miss the part in my post where over half of the current codexes are space Marines? To the point where with proper consolidation (all the chaos Marines one book, all the loyal marine books) we could have had Tau, Necrons, Orks, and Dark Eldar by now. You know, entire RACES compared to a 1,000 or so Space Marines?

Mind telling me how that isn't hurting the game? This is what causes "marinehammer" where half the time you go into a store it's hot marine on marine action. This is what causes one of the main antagonist factions, chaos, to not even represent half of the forces it's been stated as having for DECADES. Why on Earth are we getting codexes on death guard and thousand sons, forces already represented in the chaos codexes, when we have no chaos guard (not cultists, legit traitor guard with tanks), no chaos admech, and no chaos xenos? That is absolutely an example of a heavy marine focus hurting other armies that should be in the game. That's a legion of what, 20,000 Marines tops, completely knocking out millions of traitor guard and admech soldiers? Forces that are so common traitor guard is in 1/3rd of all the IG books out there? Heck the gaunts ghosts series have them as the primary adversary in several books. Yet they have no code and token forgeworld support.

This is what I'm going at. If there wasn't a death guard and thousand son codex we could've gotten a genestealer cult style update for IG so you could take them as chaos, since as it stands you can't even take traitor guard anymore as allies without forgeworld. Maybe even an identical release for admech. It's at least be something so people realize chaos isn't all space Marines and daemons.

I don't disagree with the ideal world where less Marines means More of the rest. I'm disagree with that perception being realistic. Horus Heresy exist for a reason. Space Marines receive all those books and rules and models for a reason.

And I know, this is a circular problem where Space Marines are more popular because they are more supported. But what you are saying is just wishlisting, and is obvious that isn't the strategy that GW has followed for the past... 20 years? Since the beginning Warhammer 40k has been Space Marine centric because they where made for that exact purpose, to have a protagonist for the setting instead of the generalistic Warhammer Fantasy universe. Space Marines were actually made because Chaos Warriors and their full plate armour where very popular in fantasy (Is a sweet irony how the circle was fullfilled when Sigmarines appeared in AoS) And with the introduction of Primaris Marines and Chaos Marines having their own Codex Legions like Thousand Sons, Death Guard, etc... it doesn't appear to be changing any time soon.
This is why I say that players, instead of demand directly at GW to give more for other factions, they demand less for marines in a vague and totally unrealistic desire that a less amount of marine content will be translated in more content for them. Harlequins and Genestealer Cults happened in a totally marine centric release schedule. Other armies can, and will. But that isn't gonna come with less Marine content.
More marines means more salles for GW, more sales for GW means that they can take risk with other factions. GW as a company hate risk. Marines are the most anti-risk product they can put in the shelves. I don't understand how people can't see that.

 Galas wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

Primaris are not appropriate size. You may think every marine is supposed to be 9 ft. tall, but that notion is inaccurate.

Marines are supposed to be 7 or 7 and half feet tall. And that is exactly how tall the Primaris are based on the model size when compared to IG and such.

Gonna need a pic for that, as it doesn't bear out with my impression.

Also, if they're the same size, why can't they travel in a Rhino?

This is a Dark Angels Chaplain:
[image]

To be honest I don't know the relation between meters and feets, but normal marines seem pretty big to me.

Where's that from?