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I get where you're coming from, but I want to see as much of the background available on the table top as possible.

I'd rather see Custodes than a trio of baneblades, the Lord Commander, or giant blobs of mooks.

 Yodhrin wrote:
He actually isn't, not even slightly. Custodes are one of those things that *sounds* really cool, and looks *extremely* cool, right up to the point you realise everyone else thinks so as well and now you're going to spend a significant amount of matches playing against what are supposed to be an incredibly rare faction with an incredibly specific purpose but who now apparently will be wiping out the PDF on Planet Bowlingball every other saturday afternoon.

Look at Marines - people's reaction to the super-duper-mega-ultra-elite genetically engineered supersoldier special forces guys became so blase that they had to introduce new, even more specialer even more superer Big Marines.

Custodes are like Titans - they look amazing in the art, and maybe seeing *one* special Forgeworld model show up on the table now and again would be awesome, but they shouldn't be standard fare.

This is certainly a valid point, but considering that nowadays half of the armies on the tabletop are led by actual Primarchs, that ship has kinda sailed.

I would have been more than happy for the Custodes and SoS to stay in the background. But then GW went and gave them some really nice models, so now I want more

 Yodhrin wrote:
He actually isn't, not even slightly. Custodes are one of those things that *sounds* really cool, and looks *extremely* cool, right up to the point you realise everyone else thinks so as well and now you're going to spend a significant amount of matches playing against what are supposed to be an incredibly rare faction with an incredibly specific purpose but who now apparently will be wiping out the PDF on Planet Bowlingball every other saturday afternoon.

Look at Marines - people's reaction to the super-duper-mega-ultra-elite genetically engineered supersoldier special forces guys became so blase that they had to introduce new, even more specialer even more superer Big Marines.

Custodes are like Titans - they look amazing in the art, and maybe seeing *one* special Forgeworld model show up on the table now and again would be awesome, but they shouldn't be standard fare.

Yeah it's a good thing that factions are currently played in rough balance to the rarity of their units in the fluff, and that only one out of every trillion imperial players field marines, that almost every Xenos player fields Orks and there's only one chaos player on the planet, who fields renegades and heretics.

Playable Custodes would throw that completely out of balance!

GoatboyBeta wrote:
I would have been more than happy for the Custodes and SoS to stay in the background. But then GW went and gave them some really nice models, so now I want more

We can only handle so many Adeptus Astartes. I'm an avid fan of all things Space Marines, but even I can admit/agree that the line is rather saturated. It's nice and refreshing to have new factions like the Custodes, etc. to add to the mix. It would be nice for GW to fill out the Custodes line a little more. Here's to hoping that the line sells well enough to see that happen.

Carlovonsexron wrote:
Yes. Yes you are.

It's Custodes artwork that got me into 40k at all. Ive been wishing to get them ad a army for at least a decade and now... So deliciously close!

(though really I'm happy enough with the present infantry kits. Id really like some jetbikes in plastic, but could life without the other stuff I guess. But then Im mostly a modler and painter, and not a player...

while I would love to see all of the 30k Custodes receive balanced 40k rules, I would be placated by rules for the Contemptor sword&shield /spear and Custodes terminators.

I think plastic terminators could simply be a slight reworking of the current cataphractti kit. Use the existing CAD files, increase the scale by 5%, and swap out some details.

A plastic jetbike I could see being sold like a landspeeder. One per box, and at a similar price.

changemod wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
He actually isn't, not even slightly. Custodes are one of those things that *sounds* really cool, and looks *extremely* cool, right up to the point you realise everyone else thinks so as well and now you're going to spend a significant amount of matches playing against what are supposed to be an incredibly rare faction with an incredibly specific purpose but who now apparently will be wiping out the PDF on Planet Bowlingball every other saturday afternoon.

Look at Marines - people's reaction to the super-duper-mega-ultra-elite genetically engineered supersoldier special forces guys became so blase that they had to introduce new, even more specialer even more superer Big Marines.

Custodes are like Titans - they look amazing in the art, and maybe seeing *one* special Forgeworld model show up on the table now and again would be awesome, but they shouldn't be standard fare.

Yeah it's a good thing that factions are currently played in rough balance to the rarity of their units in the fluff, and that only one out of every trillion imperial players field marines, that almost every Xenos player fields Orks and there's only one chaos player on the planet, who fields renegades and heretics.

Playable Custodes would throw that completely out of balance!

@changemod: I see what you're saying and agree. It can be hard for some people to disconnect from the amount of players using X,Y,Z faction vs. their relative scarcity in the narrative.

 oni wrote:

changemod wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
He actually isn't, not even slightly. Custodes are one of those things that *sounds* really cool, and looks *extremely* cool, right up to the point you realise everyone else thinks so as well and now you're going to spend a significant amount of matches playing against what are supposed to be an incredibly rare faction with an incredibly specific purpose but who now apparently will be wiping out the PDF on Planet Bowlingball every other saturday afternoon.

Look at Marines - people's reaction to the super-duper-mega-ultra-elite genetically engineered supersoldier special forces guys became so blase that they had to introduce new, even more specialer even more superer Big Marines.

Custodes are like Titans - they look amazing in the art, and maybe seeing *one* special Forgeworld model show up on the table now and again would be awesome, but they shouldn't be standard fare.

Yeah it's a good thing that factions are currently played in rough balance to the rarity of their units in the fluff, and that only one out of every trillion imperial players field marines, that almost every Xenos player fields Orks and there's only one chaos player on the planet, who fields renegades and heretics.

Playable Custodes would throw that completely out of balance!

@changemod: I see what you're saying and agree. It can be hard for some people to disconnect from the amount of players using X,Y,Z faction vs. their relative scarcity in the narrative.

Seems like a rather silly thing to have a hard disconnect from. If they as a player ever played Marines at all they are part of it. Eldar of any flavor? Part of it.

I for one am glad the Custodes are here to stay regardless of whether or not other people play them too. Hell I welcome other people playing them too, because more sales = more models.

Well I can't give less care about custodians in 40k. They don't play part in our 40k nor do primaris, Guillimann or any of that new stuff GW has put that would invalidate our campaign and force to start from scratch.

However more custodians for our 30k games meanwhile is very nice. There they have logical reason to run along in limited numbers and they look pretty. Small force alongside other Imperial forces once in a while is nice.

changemod wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
He actually isn't, not even slightly. Custodes are one of those things that *sounds* really cool, and looks *extremely* cool, right up to the point you realise everyone else thinks so as well and now you're going to spend a significant amount of matches playing against what are supposed to be an incredibly rare faction with an incredibly specific purpose but who now apparently will be wiping out the PDF on Planet Bowlingball every other saturday afternoon.

Look at Marines - people's reaction to the super-duper-mega-ultra-elite genetically engineered supersoldier special forces guys became so blase that they had to introduce new, even more specialer even more superer Big Marines.

Custodes are like Titans - they look amazing in the art, and maybe seeing *one* special Forgeworld model show up on the table now and again would be awesome, but they shouldn't be standard fare.

Yeah it's a good thing that factions are currently played in rough balance to the rarity of their units in the fluff, and that only one out of every trillion imperial players field marines, that almost every Xenos player fields Orks and there's only one chaos player on the planet, who fields renegades and heretics.

Playable Custodes would throw that completely out of balance!

Because obviously the best solution to a situation where things are out of whack already is to just abandon any pretense of balance at all - afterall, adding more and more wrongs must just make more and more right, yeah

Also, I know it's a rarity around here, but it would be nice if, just occasionally, people tried arguing the actual point rather than the imaginary hyperbolic strawmen they cook up.

The "Custodes are a rare sing in 40k so they shouldn't be an army" reminds me to roleplaying in World o Warcraft.

Is not the first time that roleplaying in Orgrimmar (The Orc Capital) the players are actually 9 elfs and 1 orc. And theres people that say "Oh, now Orgrimmar is a Elf city? theres just elfs". But that people is ignoring that the background is bigger than the representation the players can do with it. If theres 1 orc and 9 elf players, then they should assume that theres thousands of NPC's orcs doing their lives at the same time in that city.
The same goes for Warhammer Armies. If in your club or FLG theres 8 space marine players, 2 Custodes players, one Eldar player and 1 Imperial Guard player one shouldn't assume "Omg, theres 8 space marines for every guardsmen force". No, thats to be honest a nonsensical way of viewing it. We are all grown ups, we should have the mental madurity to be able to construct our own narrative of the universe without caring with things like the player proportion of armies. Don't mix the on-rol with off-rol, for using roleplaying terminology.

In 5th edition, Grey knights were everywhere. There are only 1000 grey knights in existence, but 30% of the AdeptiCon armies (made up number) were Grey knights.

Why? They were an elite army and a GOOD army. Easy to paint, relatively inexpensive to start, and a WIN button against certain armies.

In 7th, Eldar Bikers were everywhere. Go look at old tournament reports. For a Dying race, they sure were killing a lot of themselves!

It's a thing that happens. Right now, Custodes look cool, people have wanted them for a while, they're more elite than Grey Knights, you can field an army with just 2 boxes of Talons of the Emperor, and you can spray paint the fethers gold and be 95% done!

What is your actual complaint, Yodhrin? You seemed to be bitching that there were too many Custodes armies. OK then. What should be done?

 Yodhrin wrote:

changemod wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
He actually isn't, not even slightly. Custodes are one of those things that *sounds* really cool, and looks *extremely* cool, right up to the point you realise everyone else thinks so as well and now you're going to spend a significant amount of matches playing against what are supposed to be an incredibly rare faction with an incredibly specific purpose but who now apparently will be wiping out the PDF on Planet Bowlingball every other saturday afternoon.

Look at Marines - people's reaction to the super-duper-mega-ultra-elite genetically engineered supersoldier special forces guys became so blase that they had to introduce new, even more specialer even more superer Big Marines.

Custodes are like Titans - they look amazing in the art, and maybe seeing *one* special Forgeworld model show up on the table now and again would be awesome, but they shouldn't be standard fare.

Yeah it's a good thing that factions are currently played in rough balance to the rarity of their units in the fluff, and that only one out of every trillion imperial players field marines, that almost every Xenos player fields Orks and there's only one chaos player on the planet, who fields renegades and heretics.

Playable Custodes would throw that completely out of balance!

Because obviously the best solution to a situation where things are out of whack already is to just abandon any pretense of balance at all - afterall, adding more and more wrongs must just make more and more right, yeah

Also, I know it's a rarity around here, but it would be nice if, just occasionally, people tried arguing the actual point rather than the imaginary hyperbolic strawmen they cook up.

Don't confuse stretching a point to absurdity for rhetorical reasons with an actual strawman: Marines are by far the most sold and played faction, yet are described as an extreme rarity on a regular basis. Heck, there's ten times as many Custodes as there are, say, Blood Angels.

is there any sort of release date for this model?

 ironicsilence wrote:
is there any sort of release date for this model?

Not yet. I certainly want one.

I don't think the rumour engine thing is part of him, though it looks a lot like him. To me, this suggests that there could well be other Custodes releases to go with him.

That wouldn't be odd. One of the current theories is that armies that saw no changes in chapter approved were the ones who would soon be getting codices. There weren't changes to Custodes, or to sisters of silence etc. It may be - and this is pure speculation - that this means we'll get an imperial agents or talons of the emperor book in the first couple of months of 2018.

Mandragola wrote:
I don't think the rumour engine thing is part of him, though it looks a lot like him. To me, this suggests that there could well be other Custodes releases to go with him.

That wouldn't be odd. One of the current theories is that armies that saw no changes in chapter approved were the ones who would soon be getting codices. There weren't changes to Custodes, or to sisters of silence etc. It may be - and this is pure speculation - that this means we'll get an imperial agents or talons of the emperor book in the first couple of months of 2018.

Which rumour engine thing? They confirmed on FB that the lion head is from him.

changemod wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

changemod wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
He actually isn't, not even slightly. Custodes are one of those things that *sounds* really cool, and looks *extremely* cool, right up to the point you realise everyone else thinks so as well and now you're going to spend a significant amount of matches playing against what are supposed to be an incredibly rare faction with an incredibly specific purpose but who now apparently will be wiping out the PDF on Planet Bowlingball every other saturday afternoon.

Look at Marines - people's reaction to the super-duper-mega-ultra-elite genetically engineered supersoldier special forces guys became so blase that they had to introduce new, even more specialer even more superer Big Marines.

Custodes are like Titans - they look amazing in the art, and maybe seeing *one* special Forgeworld model show up on the table now and again would be awesome, but they shouldn't be standard fare.

Yeah it's a good thing that factions are currently played in rough balance to the rarity of their units in the fluff, and that only one out of every trillion imperial players field marines, that almost every Xenos player fields Orks and there's only one chaos player on the planet, who fields renegades and heretics.

Playable Custodes would throw that completely out of balance!

Because obviously the best solution to a situation where things are out of whack already is to just abandon any pretense of balance at all - afterall, adding more and more wrongs must just make more and more right, yeah

Also, I know it's a rarity around here, but it would be nice if, just occasionally, people tried arguing the actual point rather than the imaginary hyperbolic strawmen they cook up.

Don't confuse stretching a point to absurdity for rhetorical reasons with an actual strawman: Marines are by far the most sold and played faction, yet are described as an extreme rarity on a regular basis. Heck, there's ten times as many Custodes as there are, say, Blood Angels.

Both sides I think have some valid points. If units were as rare on the tabletop as they were in the fluff, most players would be forced to play Guard or Orks probably. No one wants that. But on the other hand, few people (I hope) want endless mirror matches of Bobby G. vs his evil twin or whatever the flavor of the month happens to be at the time. Part of what most of us love about 40k is the setting and it does at least strain that immersive feeling when you're constantly pitting units and special characters against one another where it would be unlikely to happen in the background. All of us have to decide where along both of those extremes we'd prefer to enjoy the hobby, but it seems rather absurd to force others to pick the same spot on the dial as you do.

Personally, I'd love it if there were as much factional variety on the tabletop as possible, but I also want people to be able to choose the factions they actually want to play.
As for the miniature, I hope there is an option for a helmeted head, and perhaps even an alternate top to the polearm to turn it into a guardian spear as an additional option, but I do like the model. He'll be a lot of fun to paint.

 Brother Xeones wrote:

changemod wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

changemod wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
He actually isn't, not even slightly. Custodes are one of those things that *sounds* really cool, and looks *extremely* cool, right up to the point you realise everyone else thinks so as well and now you're going to spend a significant amount of matches playing against what are supposed to be an incredibly rare faction with an incredibly specific purpose but who now apparently will be wiping out the PDF on Planet Bowlingball every other saturday afternoon.

Look at Marines - people's reaction to the super-duper-mega-ultra-elite genetically engineered supersoldier special forces guys became so blase that they had to introduce new, even more specialer even more superer Big Marines.

Custodes are like Titans - they look amazing in the art, and maybe seeing *one* special Forgeworld model show up on the table now and again would be awesome, but they shouldn't be standard fare.

Yeah it's a good thing that factions are currently played in rough balance to the rarity of their units in the fluff, and that only one out of every trillion imperial players field marines, that almost every Xenos player fields Orks and there's only one chaos player on the planet, who fields renegades and heretics.

Playable Custodes would throw that completely out of balance!

Because obviously the best solution to a situation where things are out of whack already is to just abandon any pretense of balance at all - afterall, adding more and more wrongs must just make more and more right, yeah

Also, I know it's a rarity around here, but it would be nice if, just occasionally, people tried arguing the actual point rather than the imaginary hyperbolic strawmen they cook up.

Don't confuse stretching a point to absurdity for rhetorical reasons with an actual strawman: Marines are by far the most sold and played faction, yet are described as an extreme rarity on a regular basis. Heck, there's ten times as many Custodes as there are, say, Blood Angels.

Both sides I think have some valid points. If units were as rare on the tabletop as they were in the fluff, most players would be forced to play Guard or Orks probably. No one wants that. But on the other hand, few people (I hope) want endless mirror matches of Bobby G. vs his evil twin or whatever the flavor of the month happens to be at the time. Part of what most of us love about 40k is the setting and it does at least strain that immersive feeling when you're constantly pitting units and special characters against one another where it would be unlikely to happen in the background. All of us have to decide where along both of those extremes we'd prefer to enjoy the hobby, but it seems rather absurd to force others to pick the same spot on the dial as you do.

Personally, I'd love it if there were as much factional variety on the tabletop as possible, but I also want people to be able to choose the factions they actually want to play.
As for the miniature, I hope there is an option for a helmeted head, and perhaps even an alternate top to the polearm to turn it into a guardian spear as an additional option, but I do like the model. He'll be a lot of fun to paint.

Hey if they must be in 40k then I can at least live with that, I dont want it, I want small allied forces attached to a main force, BUT, I can live with it if they get a whole army, what i do not want is them being anything remotely as broken as they are in 30k, its insane.

 ImAGeek wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
I don't think the rumour engine thing is part of him, though it looks a lot like him. To me, this suggests that there could well be other Custodes releases to go with him.

That wouldn't be odd. One of the current theories is that armies that saw no changes in chapter approved were the ones who would soon be getting codices. There weren't changes to Custodes, or to sisters of silence etc. It may be - and this is pure speculation - that this means we'll get an imperial agents or talons of the emperor book in the first couple of months of 2018.

Which rumour engine thing? They confirmed on FB that the lion head is from him.

Lion head? I'm talking about this:



I don't think part of this guy. He's got very similar symbols but they don't quite match. I'm therefore wondering if there's more to come.

Now you're going to spend a significant amount of matches playing against what are supposed to be an incredibly rare faction with an incredibly specific purpose but who now apparently will be wiping out the PDF on Planet Bowlingball every other saturday afternoon.

Where this falls down is that this applies in a similar way to the Marines - especially the "snowflake" ones.

There are more Custodes (8000) than there are Space Wolves, Dark Angels and Blood Angels (6000 in total if I am being generous)

The Custodes are in the fluff part of the reviatlised Imperial war machine and out and about kicking ass

And lets face it the one thing we are not short of are Marines - given that this is one of only two new models for the entire 8th edition that are not Marines or marines related it should be celebrated

 Crimson wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
He actually isn't, not even slightly. Custodes are one of those things that *sounds* really cool, and looks *extremely* cool, right up to the point you realise everyone else thinks so as well and now you're going to spend a significant amount of matches playing against what are supposed to be an incredibly rare faction with an incredibly specific purpose but who now apparently will be wiping out the PDF on Planet Bowlingball every other saturday afternoon.

Look at Marines - people's reaction to the super-duper-mega-ultra-elite genetically engineered supersoldier special forces guys became so blase that they had to introduce new, even more specialer even more superer Big Marines.

Custodes are like Titans - they look amazing in the art, and maybe seeing *one* special Forgeworld model show up on the table now and again would be awesome, but they shouldn't be standard fare.

This is certainly a valid point, but considering that nowadays half of the armies on the tabletop are led by actual Primarchs, that ship has kinda sailed.

I agree with you both. The excesses of 6th/7th are unfortunately here to stay as its not fair for GW to screw over players who paid good money for figs not to be able to use them (aka the Squat Syndome). I'd have preferred if they were introduced (as well as Deathwatch, Imperial Knights, and Grey Knights) as a single unit that you could add one of to another imperial army.... but in 6th/7th (and to a lesser extent 3rd with GK), every miniscule faction had to have its own $50 soon to be invalidated codex and independent army fluff and balance be damned.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

changemod wrote:

Yeah it's a good thing that factions are currently played in rough balance to the rarity of their units in the fluff, and that only one out of every trillion imperial players field marines, that almost every Xenos player fields Orks and there's only one chaos player on the planet, who fields renegades and heretics.

Playable Custodes would throw that completely out of balance!

There is something to be said about a game maintaining some variety and flexibility in army construction and faction choice. Marines have been around since the very first day of 40k (please go take a look at the RT book cover) and will always be grandfathered in. That of course doesn't mean that I feel that GW's spamming of solo codex books and army rules for so many chapters is right either. Besides, when there are a 1,000 chapters of marines with roughly 1,000 marines in each, that means there are around a million of them running around. Compare that with 10,000 Custodes and 1,000 Grey Knights. At some point, a line should be drawn and putting that line right after a faction that has formed the core of 40k since the beginning and are its poster children seems like a good place to put it.

Yeah, the proliferance of Primarchs is sillier than there being too many definitely-not-gold-Spehss-Muhrine superdudes, or too many Space Marines themselves.

People's collecting habits can't adhere to the fluff, or there could only be one of each character in the world, and other silly things. Let people buy, paint and play what they want to...

 oni wrote:

GoatboyBeta wrote:
I would have been more than happy for the Custodes and SoS to stay in the background. But then GW went and gave them some really nice models, so now I want more

We can only handle so many Adeptus Astartes. I'm an avid fan of all things Space Marines, but even I can admit/agree that the line is rather saturated. It's nice and refreshing to have new factions like the Custodes, etc. to add to the mix. It would be nice for GW to fill out the Custodes line a little more. Here's to hoping that the line sells well enough to see that happen.

Refreshing would be more Xenos or hell more Chaos factions.

We really need non-FW Chaos mortals.

Mandragola wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
I don't think the rumour engine thing is part of him, though it looks a lot like him. To me, this suggests that there could well be other Custodes releases to go with him.

That wouldn't be odd. One of the current theories is that armies that saw no changes in chapter approved were the ones who would soon be getting codices. There weren't changes to Custodes, or to sisters of silence etc. It may be - and this is pure speculation - that this means we'll get an imperial agents or talons of the emperor book in the first couple of months of 2018.

Which rumour engine thing? They confirmed on FB that the lion head is from him.

Lion head? I'm talking about this:



I don't think part of this guy. He's got very similar symbols but they don't quite match. I'm therefore wondering if there's more to come.

Yeah, that one is a bit different to the HQs axe but close enough that I don’t know that it could be anything else.

This is the one I meant.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Yeah, the proliferance of Primarchs is sillier than there being too many definitely-not-gold-Spehss-Muhrine superdudes, or too many Space Marines themselves.

People's collecting habits can't adhere to the fluff, or there could only be one of each character in the world, and other silly things. Let people buy, paint and play what they want to...

Yeah, let people pick what they want. There's no way GW could or should control that.

The more options there are, the better. It's not like the absence of models stopped people from converting their own Custodes because they were inspired by the background.

I get that it's not great to have the background and goings-on on the tabletop clash so significantly (I got to listen to tournament players at my local store this weekend and it was Girlyman this and Celestine that all day long) if you care for the background and see the game as a reenactment, but there is no practical way of having a rich background and a regulated game at the same time.

Having so many factions is one of the reasons I like 40K. Other SciFi games make do with 4 to 6 factions. What does 40k have now, 20? A take all comers list with diverse players opens up a ton of variations in play.

 ImAGeek wrote:

Mandragola wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

Mandragola wrote:

Which rumour engine thing? They confirmed on FB that the lion head is from him.

Lion head? I'm talking about this:

[ don't think part of this guy. He's got very similar symbols but they don't quite match. I'm therefore wondering if there's more to come.

Yeah, that one is a bit different to the HQs axe but close enough that I don’t know that it could be anything else.
This is the one I meant.

Yeah this is why I think it’s some other, as yet unseen, Custodes thing. The style matches but it’s not exactly the same piece.

Mandragola wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

Mandragola wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

Mandragola wrote:

Which rumour engine thing? They confirmed on FB that the lion head is from him.

Lion head? I'm talking about this:

[ don't think part of this guy. He's got very similar symbols but they don't quite match. I'm therefore wondering if there's more to come.

Yeah, that one is a bit different to the HQs axe but close enough that I don’t know that it could be anything else.
This is the one I meant.

Yeah this is why I think it’s some other, as yet unseen, Custodes thing. The style matches but it’s not exactly the same piece.

We know the first codex for 2018 is Chaos Deamons, maybe the second one is Adeptus Custodes?