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 Reivax26 wrote:
Is there any use for Scout Bikers?

Yes!

 Reivax26 wrote:
Is there any use for Scout Bikers?

Most definitely! They are great for giving an otherwise static list some mobility. Their durability isn't great, but they have pretty solid firepower for their points. Inside 12 inches, they get 18 shots (4 from each twin bolter and 2 from each shotgun), and that isn't including giving the sarge a Storm Bolter for just 2 points more. They are also faster than regular Ravenwing bikes. Really the only reason to run Ravenwing over Scout Bikes is if you are running a Ravenwing Attack Squadron, because then you want to have the Ravenwing keyword.

When I was running the Azrael Hellblaster gunline, I usually ran a couple of minimum squads of Scout bikers, and they often put in solid work.

Dunno, with Bolter Drill the Ravenwing chaps are looking better than the Scout Bikers.

- Both cost the same (RW used to cost more)
- Scouts can fire 12 bolter shots + 6 shotguns (but only at 12"); 16 bolter + 4 shotguns if you give the Sarge a Storm Bolter (Index config)
- RWB can fire 18 bolter shots on the go, because all of them can have a boltgun - and at 24" at all times!
- RWB have Jink and can benefit more from Talonmaster's aura
- RWB can enjoy the new formation

For me, the only saving grace for Scout Bikers is their stratagem of MW after leaving combat

 Vector Strike wrote:
Dunno, with Bolter Drill the Ravenwing chaps are looking better than the Scout Bikers.

- Both cost the same (RW used to cost more)
- Scouts can fire 12 bolter shots + 6 shotguns (but only at 12"); 16 bolter + 4 shotguns if you give the Sarge a Storm Bolter (Index config)
- RWB can fire 18 bolter shots on the go, because all of them can have a boltgun - and at 24" at all times!
- RWB have Jink and can benefit more from Talonmaster's aura
- RWB can enjoy the new formation

For me, the only saving grace for Scout Bikers is their stratagem of MW after leaving combat

I agree with you that RWB are better than scout bikes at the moment, but RWB can't take boltguns, you can use the index to give the sergeant a Storm Bolter and give them flamers.

Working on a TAC Casual/semi-decent DA army for actually playing the game and learning as I have most of these models but never really play. I'm trying to go just codex without FW, Index & Allies for now. Wondering what people's thoughts are and what I should do to expand to 2k

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP ++
+ HQ +
Azrael
Lieutenants
Chainsword, Master-crafted boltgun
+ Troops +
3x5 x Scout (Boltgun)
+ Heavy Support +
Hellblaster Squad: 9x Hellblaster, Plasma incinerators
++ Outrider Detachment +1CP ++
+ HQ +
Ravenwing Talonmaster
Twin assault cannon, Twin heavy bolter
. Talonmaster: Power sword
+ Fast Attack +
3 x 5 Ravenwing Bike Squad
. Ravenwing Biker: Chainsword, Meltagun
. Ravenwing Biker: Chainsword, Meltagun

Ravenwing Darkshroud: Heavy bolter
++ Total: [84 PL, 1,493pts] ++

You might want some combination of Dark Talons, more Hellblasters, some variety of Ancient, and possibly a second Talonmaster or Sammael in Sableclaw at 2000 points. It may mean dropping a few bikes to fit some of that in.

I am wondering if it has enough anti tank power in the list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have a tournament coming up this weekend. 1k lists and I get randomly paired up with another person for all 3 games.

My dilemma is whether or not to try to run the Ravenwing Outrider detachment or a shooty Battalion detachment. Both have their merits.

I had even toyed with trying to do both but that's hard to do at 1k. Any suggestions are welcome.

abyrn wrote:


I agree with you that RWB are better than scout bikes at the moment, but RWB can't take boltguns, you can use the index to give the sergeant a Storm Bolter and give them flamers.

They can't? Damn, I'm so used to giving them combi-plasmas that I thought it was a given

I am thinking about running a Supreme Command detachment of 3 librarians that are from the generic Marine codex. I want to put one on a bike, run it behind Black Knights and have it cast Null Zone on a Knight right before I melt the bastard with str 9 Plasma.

Anyone against it?

 Reivax26 wrote:
I am thinking about running a Supreme Command detachment of 3 librarians that are from the generic Marine codex. I want to put one on a bike, run it behind Black Knights and have it cast Null Zone on a Knight right before I melt the bastard with str 9 Plasma.

Anyone against it?

Null Zone is a 6" aura around the Librarian. You'd have to get close to the Knight from another vector, as it would afect your Black Knights' Jinx (or, if you won't use it, there's no problem)

 Vector Strike wrote:

 Reivax26 wrote:
I am thinking about running a Supreme Command detachment of 3 librarians that are from the generic Marine codex. I want to put one on a bike, run it behind Black Knights and have it cast Null Zone on a Knight right before I melt the bastard with str 9 Plasma.

Anyone against it?

Null Zone is a 6" aura around the Librarian. You'd have to get close to the Knight from another vector, as it would afect your Black Knights' Jinx (or, if you won't use it, there's no problem)

I believe that Null Zone effects enemy models within 6", not all models.

I've used an allied Librarian on a Bike with Null Zone in conjunction with Ravenwing Black Knights. When it works it works great. But WC8 is a gamble. When it goes off you can make your opponent cry. When it doesn't, you are the one crying.

Where you getting Strength 9 plasma from?

Super charge plus Weapons of the Dark Age makes them Str 9 doesn't it?

No, they are Str. 8 but with D3 instead of D2.

Interesting. That might actually be better....

Also I have been toying with the idea of maybe adding a detachment from another Codex to have extra ranged support while the Ravenwing is zooming around. I naturally think Astra Militarum could fill this role nicely.

Thoughts?

 Reivax26 wrote:
Interesting. That might actually be better....

Also I have been toying with the idea of maybe adding a detachment from another Codex to have extra ranged support while the Ravenwing is zooming around. I naturally think Astra Militarum could fill this role nicely.

Thoughts?

Yeah Astra militarum bring some much needed range and board control support for ravenwing and cps. Plus dark Angels need all the help we can get at the moment as we are one of the worst codexs in the game

I just played in a tournament today that was more hobby-focused rather than ultra-competitive. Since this was the case, I decided to get the Dark Angels out for it, running a somewhat more thematic list rather than something super optimized and competitive. The list rules were that we were restricted to 2 detachments with no duplication of detachments (so no double Battalion, for example). I ran the following:

I won't go into detail in the games, but I played against a beautifully converted mixed Aeldari list (made to look like Exodites riding dinosaurs and stuff), a Deathwatch list, and a Sisters list. I won the first two games handily, but lost the one against the Sisters. It was a parking lot list, and I made a lot of mistakes. The other two lists were not very hardcore, which is probably why I won. This event was the first time I ran the Repulsor, and I have to say I was mostly disappointed with it. For how many points it cost, it should have done better. Of course, in the right list it probably would have been better, but I wasn't trying to optimize the list, but rather run stuff that was nicely painted. My Inceptors were also kind of a mixed bag. They put in some good work in the first game, killing a squadron of War Walkers before being wiped out on the next turn, but in the other two games they didn't do a whole lot. In game 3, I didn't have a Master handy for rerolling 1's, so FOUR of them blew themselves up shooting at a couple of Exorcists, which they didn't even kill since my dice decided to royally screw me over (pretty much the entire rest of the tournament my dice were fairly average, but right then they kicked me in the nuts). Maybe I'm playing them wrong, but I'm becoming less and less enthusiastic about them. Still, overall I had a blast, got to look at some beautifully painted armies and got to throw some dice with my friends and renew some acquaintances, so I definitely consider it time well spent.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I just played in a tournament today that was more hobby-focused rather than ultra-competitive. Since this was the case, I decided to get the Dark Angels out for it, running a somewhat more thematic list rather than something super optimized and competitive. The list rules were that we were restricted to 2 detachments with no duplication of detachments (so no double Battalion, for example). I ran the following:

Spoiler:

Battalion
Master in Gravis Armor
Primaris Lieutenant: Heavenfall Blade, Plasma Pistol
3x 5 Intercessors
Primaris Ancient
5 Plasma Inceptors
5 Hellblasters
Repulsor
Outrider
Talonmaster
3 Ravenwing Bikers
3 Ravenwing Black Knights
Darkshroud
Dark Talon

I won't go into detail in the games, but I played against a beautifully converted mixed Aeldari list (made to look like Exodites riding dinosaurs and stuff), a Deathwatch list, and a Sisters list. I won the first two games handily, but lost the one against the Sisters. It was a parking lot list, and I made a lot of mistakes. The other two lists were not very hardcore, which is probably why I won. This event was the first time I ran the Repulsor, and I have to say I was mostly disappointed with it. For how many points it cost, it should have done better. Of course, in the right list it probably would have been better, but I wasn't trying to optimize the list, but rather run stuff that was nicely painted. My Inceptors were also kind of a mixed bag. They put in some good work in the first game, killing a squadron of War Walkers before being wiped out on the next turn, but in the other two games they didn't do a whole lot. In game 3, I didn't have a Master handy for rerolling 1's, so FOUR of them blew themselves up shooting at a couple of Exorcists, which they didn't even kill since my dice decided to royally screw me over (pretty much the entire rest of the tournament my dice were fairly average, but right then they kicked me in the nuts). Maybe I'm playing them wrong, but I'm becoming less and less enthusiastic about them. Still, overall I had a blast, got to look at some beautifully painted armies and got to throw some dice with my friends and renew some acquaintances, so I definitely consider it time well spent.

i think you have to go Phobos Lt with Target Priority warlord trait for the Inceptors. +1 to hit so never kill themselves (when no to hit modifiers) and the reroll 1s to wound. Downside is you lose Brilliant Strategist.

I'm starting to be less enthused with Brilliant Strategist. It's too swingy, and every time you roll for it you're taking up a bit of time. I'm just not sure what I want to use instead.

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:
I'm starting to be less enthused with Brilliant Strategist. It's too swingy, and every time you roll for it you're taking up a bit of time. I'm just not sure what I want to use instead.

i think it also depends on how many CPs you start with. With only 8, you are rarely going to get much use out of the trait. You are, however, getting another reroll with it though, There just aren't a lot of good traits for DA unfortunately.

Master of Maneuver is the one I take at 8cp. Then again I like taking a big squad of Deathwing Terminators, deep striking them and using Deathwing Assault Strategem so what do I know.

Any thoughts on what new new Codex Adeptus Astartes preview could mean for us Dark Angels? It was great to read in the preview that all First Founding Chapters (and they name the Dark Angels) will get full access to the datasheets in the new Space Marines codex. The Primaris Rhino equivalent (the Impulser) looks intriguing for keeping Hellblasters or Aggressors safe for a turn. The +1 Attacks in the first round of close combat could be a good boost for Deathwing Knights. On the other hand, the problems with Terminators has more to do with resiliency and at this point there appears to be no movement on that (its a preview).

GW issuing supplements for additional Chapters could be a good sign: they are expanding rather than contracting. Primarizing another Character maintains the possibility of Azrael getting that treatment in the future.

Thoughts?

I have to admit I'm intrigued by the idea of getting Thunderfire Cannons and Centurions (Cents with a 4++ from Azzy could be okay, maybe). As for the new stuff, I'll wait until I see the rules for it before I render judgment. I do like the look of that new Primaris walker thing- makes me think of one of those Amp-suits from Avatar.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Any thoughts on what new new Codex Adeptus Astartes preview could mean for us Dark Angels? It was great to read in the preview that all First Founding Chapters (and they name the Dark Angels) will get full access to the datasheets in the new Space Marines codex. The Primaris Rhino equivalent (the Impulser) looks intriguing for keeping Hellblasters or Aggressors safe for a turn. The +1 Attacks in the first round of close combat could be a good boost for Deathwing Knights. On the other hand, the problems with Terminators has more to do with resiliency and at this point there appears to be no movement on that (its a preview).

GW issuing supplements for additional Chapters could be a good sign: they are expanding rather than contracting. Primarizing another Character maintains the possibility of Azrael getting that treatment in the future.

Thoughts?

The list of stuff we, for now, can't access as DA are (codex only):
- Captain on Bike (LOOOONG overdue for DA)
- Honour Guard
- Vanguard/Sternguard Veterans
- Ironclad Dreadnought
- Centurions
- Thunderfire Cannon
- Stormhawk
- Stormtalon

From these, I'd say Captain on Bike, Veterans, Centurions and Thunderfire Cannons have my greater interest. Stormtalons could be a contender for the spot Dark Talon now occupy and the Ironclad Dreadnought can use Bolter Drill. Stormhawk and Honour Guard... meh

Vanguard Veterans is something I could get behind. My 2nd Ed tourney list had an Assault Squad with power weapons that has been illegal for Dark Angels ever since 3rd.

We really don't need Stormhawks or Stormtalons. Dark Talons are better in every way than those.

Now me, I'm hoping for some points adjustments on a lot of stuff. Grav weapons need to become much cheaper to compete with plasma. Especially the cannons. Also, Grav Cannons need their wound reroll back (make that Grav-amp mean something again). And really, Tactical/Assault/Devastator Marines need to only cost 11 ppm base. I'm also hoping for price drops on all of the Shadowspear units. Infiltrators should be 19 ppm or less in order to compete with Intercessors, and Suppressors should probably be a bit cheaper too, or able to move without penalty on their heavy weapon. Likewise all of the Phobos characters should be cheaper in order to be worth taking.

Of course, all of this is wishlisting and none of it is likely to happen, but a guy can dream, right?

Anyone else hoping for a new Strategem where an army led by Belial can Deep Strike all its terminator squads?

Upon reflection, I'm wondering if the Space Marines Codex 2.0 will give us access to all the Primaris datasheets inside plus new universal Space Marine abilities but not necessarily all the "old-marine" units? Getting Grim Resolve on all units, though, would be nice.

 Reivax26 wrote:
Anyone else hoping for a new Strategem where an army led by Belial can Deep Strike all its terminator squads?

we won't get any new strat related to our specific models. we'll get a pdf with the updated rules from the new SM codex.

Ok, confirmation that we won't get units like Stormtalons and Centurions just came up (first image)

And neither Combat Doctrines (second image)

I'm okay not getting exclusive SM units, but not Combat Doctrines - a rule inside the 'universal' Angels of Death? Feck that!