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Made in ca
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran



Canada

 zammerak wrote:
Ok I have started to build a Sammael in Sableclaw, you reckon I need two talon masters? I have 3 busted speeders I can kitbash and rebuild.


There is an effective build for Dark Angels with Sammael in Sableclaw and two Talonmasters. The upcoming aura changes will reign it in slightly, but I think it will still be strong. I used it to good effect at a recent tourney (the write up is above).

At 2000 points you could have that trio, some tacticals/Intercessors, two or three Ravenwing Bike squads and a squad of Terminators. The Deathwing can come in from reserve within 6" of one of your bike squads and outside of 6" of enemy squads with a fun Stratagem. Deathwing have been good mid-field objective holders and should improve at 3W.

I figure you have plenty of models, so I hesitate to recommend any purchases before the new Codex comes out.

Cheers,

T2B

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





Central MN

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
 zammerak wrote:
Ok I have started to build a Sammael in Sableclaw, you reckon I need two talon masters? I have 3 busted speeders I can kitbash and rebuild.


There is an effective build for Dark Angels with Sammael in Sableclaw and two Talonmasters. The upcoming aura changes will reign it in slightly, but I think it will still be strong. I used it to good effect at a recent tourney (the write up is above).

At 2000 points you could have that trio, some tacticals/Intercessors, two or three Ravenwing Bike squads and a squad of Terminators. The Deathwing can come in from reserve within 6" of one of your bike squads and outside of 6" of enemy squads with a fun Stratagem. Deathwing have been good mid-field objective holders and should improve at 3W.

I figure you have plenty of models, so I hesitate to recommend any purchases before the new Codex comes out.

Cheers,

T2B


Perfect. Thank you. I will continue to paint and kitbash for the time being and see how the new codex shakes out.

SRSFACE wrote: Every Ork player I know is a really, really cool person.
20,000 New and Growing 1000
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/592194.page#6769789 
   
Made in ca
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran



Canada

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I gotta say, I'm not convinced that Bladeguard are really any good. Only three in the unit is no bueno when it comes to efficiency (why would I waste strats like Fury of the First or Transhuman Physiology on a tiny unit?). And with 3 wounds, your opponent isn't really wasting shots if he fires his bigger guns at them.

Unless I'm missing something and they have a niche that I've overlooked?


I'm hopeful that their squad size will be 3 to 6 when the Codex drops. Even in a squad of 3, my Bladeguard have chewed through Deathguard Terminators and Ironhand Terminators. They have not always survived the game, but they've pulled their weight.

Early days of course!

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 zammerak wrote:


Perfect. Thank you. I will continue to paint and kitbash for the time being and see how the new codex shakes out.


I think with the new character rules alone has made running 3 a huge risk, in 8th it was almost a no brainer. Ive capped myself at Sammael and 1 Talonmaster. No way I could bring in a 3rd.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
I gotta say, I'm not convinced that Bladeguard are really any good. Only three in the unit is no bueno when it comes to efficiency (why would I waste strats like Fury of the First or Transhuman Physiology on a tiny unit?). And with 3 wounds, your opponent isn't really wasting shots if he fires his bigger guns at them.

Unless I'm missing something and they have a niche that I've overlooked?


Bladeguard are self sufficient, no need to spend on strats. The only thing they lack is obsec otherwise they are more durable than intercessors. It depends on what you want them to do. They are just another bow in a marine arsenal.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/21 03:02:11


 
   
Made in us
Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot






Thanks for the heads up zerg! I'm glad hellblasters are still good too because I'm just about done painting a unit of 10. Next will be a 3 man unit of plans inceptors. I've got just about everything other than primaris, so I've been taking this year to get them painted ( 6 month old in the house, so I'm exceptionally slow at painting now).
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

From what I've seen in the 2 games of 9th I've now played, and read about in various battle reports and Goonhammer articles, it seems that infiltrating troops are very very solid in 9th edition (maybe that's a bit of Captain Obvious speaking). Lots of Chaos lists find a way to ally a few Nurglings in, and Infiltrators, Incursors, and Scouts seem to find their way into a fair number of Space Marine lists. My friend (who is pretty decent at 40k and has given me lots of good advice over the years I've played) has actually recommended Incursors for my list. I recently bought a box of them (gives me 2 5-man units), so I'll be trying them out in my next game. They seem decent, a bit cheaper than Infiltrators (who are also excellent) and they get Haywire Mines to booby-trap objectives.

Of course, theorycrafting really doesn't do much good since we've got a new book incoming that will probably shake up the meta...

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/7/24, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Imperial Knights: ~2300 | Leagues of Votann: ~1300 | Tyranids: ~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000 | Kruleboyz: ~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: ~700
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2024: 40 | Total models painted in 2025: 23 | Current main painting project: Tomb Kings
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
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Made in ru
Stalwart Dark Angels Space Marine




 ZergSmasher wrote:
From what I've seen in the 2 games of 9th I've now played, and read about in various battle reports and Goonhammer articles, it seems that infiltrating troops are very very solid in 9th edition (maybe that's a bit of Captain Obvious speaking). Lots of Chaos lists find a way to ally a few Nurglings in, and Infiltrators, Incursors, and Scouts seem to find their way into a fair number of Space Marine lists. My friend (who is pretty decent at 40k and has given me lots of good advice over the years I've played) has actually recommended Incursors for my list. I recently bought a box of them (gives me 2 5-man units), so I'll be trying them out in my next game. They seem decent, a bit cheaper than Infiltrators (who are also excellent) and they get Haywire Mines to booby-trap objectives.

Of course, theorycrafting really doesn't do much good since we've got a new book incoming that will probably shake up the meta...


Havent tried incursors, but ive played several games where i took 3 5-man units of infiltrators. They are pretty tough to shift when in cover, but in competetive games there is good chance they will get killed when deployed poorly, if you lose the first turn.
So i wouldnt recommend deploying them out in the open.
I think its best to put them somewhere near an objective, idealy outside of LOS to get the most out of them




Automatically Appended Next Post:
It seems Dark Angels are not a good spot right judging by recent tournaments.

Does anyone have any ideas about competetive Dark Angels lists?

Recently i came up with the following:
Azrael
leutenenant
interrogator chaplain
aggressors x5
aggressors x5
whirlwind scorpius
whirlwind scorpius
scouts x5
scouts x5
scouts x5
plasma inceptors x5
plasma inceptors x5

So the idea is:

Put whirlwinds somewhere safe and take secondary mission While we stand we fight granting you 10 free points if whirlwinds survive, 15 in total if azrael also survives

I think Whirlwinds are great units and essential when using infantry models otherwise thunderfire cannons will ruin your day and they should be good at clearing enemy models from objectives, such as nurglings and stuff, every scorpius is 6d3 shots 6 -2 2 shooting without LOS. Upcoming change to our chapter tactic will be good for them - +1 to hit while standing

Azrael bubble should be able to move up the table and take or kill off any chaff at midfield objectives, use transhuman physiology for additional survivability. Chaplain with stoic prosecution will allow aggressors shoot twice and get the +1 to hit from our chapter tactic, making it easier to clear midfield objectives

I think azrael-aggressors castle should be able to take and hold at least 1 midfield maybe even two if they are not too far from each other.

Plasma inceptors are here to deal with high priority threats, they are also pretty decent against hordes due to blast weapons.

Other secondaries worth taking:
Deploy scramblers 10pts max - pretty easy - put one unit of scouts in reserves. deploy one unit in you deployement, one in midfield idealy near an objective and you should have it done by turn 3.
engage on all fronts 15 points max - whirlwinds will control 2 quadrants, azrael bubble will move to third quadrant turn 1 so it should be 2 pts per turn. then you also have scouts that could be in the fourth quadrant somewhere safe. so i would say its possible to max this by turn 5.

Havent tried playing it yet but i think it has good potential

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/09/24 07:21:18


 
   
Made in us
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran



Canada

I am finding Infiltrators useful in 9th. I had gone away from Hellblasters, but Transhuman has indeed made them more viable.

Deploy Scramblers is a fun objective to add some narrative to your game, but I have found it far from easy to accomplish. The one in your own zone is easy enough, but the other two can be frustrated by your opponent if he has any mobility. You are putting a huge “shoot me” sign on that unit for a turn. It’s an all or nothing Secondary. I have found, though, that it can distract my opponent- like a 10 VP Distraction Carnifex.

Dark Angels have not been the top player choice, but that does not mean that they cannot be successful for the semi-competitive crowd not trying to win LVO. Aggressors with Azrael and a Chaplain with our Chapter Litany can make opponents chew the table in frustration. Deathwing Knights are even better these days, and are about to get better.

The changes to auras will likely hurt some of our builds. On the other hand, Heavy Intercessors should do nicely in our lists.

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in ru
Stalwart Dark Angels Space Marine




TangoTwoBravo wrote:
I am finding Infiltrators useful in 9th. I had gone away from Hellblasters, but Transhuman has indeed made them more viable.

Deploy Scramblers is a fun objective to add some narrative to your game, but I have found it far from easy to accomplish. The one in your own zone is easy enough, but the other two can be frustrated by your opponent if he has any mobility. You are putting a huge “shoot me” sign on that unit for a turn. It’s an all or nothing Secondary. I have found, though, that it can distract my opponent- like a 10 VP Distraction Carnifex.

Dark Angels have not been the top player choice, but that does not mean that they cannot be successful for the semi-competitive crowd not trying to win LVO. Aggressors with Azrael and a Chaplain with our Chapter Litany can make opponents chew the table in frustration. Deathwing Knights are even better these days, and are about to get better.

The changes to auras will likely hurt some of our builds. On the other hand, Heavy Intercessors should do nicely in our lists.


Heres how i accomplish deploy scramblers using 3 units of scouts:

put one unit in reservs using 1 cp
put one unit somewhere midfield safe from enemy shooting
put one unit in your deployment somewhere behind a ruin

Unless opponent has any shooting without LOS it should be easy to do:
1. first turn declare scramblers with unit that is midfield since it is likely not going to live for long
2. second turn - the one in your deployment zone
3 third turn - deploy scouts from reserves in enemy deployment, you can deploy using any edge except opponents edge of the table then declare action. This the easiest one actually, last time i checked it was absolutely legal move

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/24 12:59:47


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




So, reviews for the new codex are out and i thought I'd jot down a few thoughts here.


Our new chapter Tactic (+1 to hit if not moved that TURN and auto pass combat attrition tests) is more powerful than I first thought. Previously we had reroll ones, which was somewhat made redundant by reroll auras being everywhere but now the +1 to hit is both melee and shooting ans is on a per turn basis, so your termies teleport in on your turn and will get +1 to hit if the enemy charges them on theirs..very nice with powerfists etc.

While we can't use sternguard or vanguard, these are the Only exceptions for us as far as I can see (at least until our supplement comes out) meaning we now have access to things like the thunderfire cannon and centurions. Might not be great but more options are more options.

We FINALLY have the ability to have chaplains in the Ravenwing!!!

There is a pretty cool warlord trait that gives units obsec which I am definitely going to try with large Deathwing squads. There are also a few ways to get extra warlord traits which will be very handy.

As far as I can see, nothing now prevents us from making our own chapter masters if for example you wanted to do a pre-azrael army.

Having read the rules, my deathwing apothecary will almost certainly be promoted to Chief as will my Deathwing Ancient (who will probably get the warlord trait mentioned above.

Overall, looks like a great book (some nerfs, some buffs but more options for us in general).

Anyone have anything else they have seen that gives you ideas?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/03 20:19:39


 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

The idea of a Ravenwing Chief Apothecary following a unit of 3 Invader ATVs and bringing one back to life every turn seems pretty funny!

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/7/24, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Imperial Knights: ~2300 | Leagues of Votann: ~1300 | Tyranids: ~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000 | Kruleboyz: ~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: ~700
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2024: 40 | Total models painted in 2025: 23 | Current main painting project: Tomb Kings
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
You need your bumps felt. With a patented, Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000.
The Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000. It only looks like several bricks crudely gaffer taped to a cricket bat.
Grotsnik Corp. Sorry, No Refunds.
 
   
Made in ru
Stalwart Dark Angels Space Marine




Until we get some faqs for previous DA codex and psychic awakening i think its too early to say anything.

Im thinking that whirlwinds especially Scorpius types are going to be really good with our chapter tactic.
   
Made in mt
Regular Dakkanaut



Sweden

Any news what will happen to our chapter specific stratagems?
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




As far as I understand it, theres gonna be a day 1 "get you by" faq update for us and the other chapters ( vampires and puppies) for things like deathwing knights but honestly i have no idea about strategems.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/05 16:17:21


 
   
Made in us
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





Central MN

The updated "index" has been posted.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/10/05/codex-updates-wargear-profiles-and-rules/?fbclid=IwAR0GQXxG7brlURbgsPS4fDCxpmHbElczAg2YjgxXsHJnOi8y209fDibxp6I

SRSFACE wrote: Every Ork player I know is a really, really cool person.
20,000 New and Growing 1000
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/592194.page#6769789 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Timur wrote:
Until we get some faqs for previous DA codex and psychic awakening i think its too early to say anything.

Im thinking that whirlwinds especially Scorpius types are going to be really good with our chapter tactic.


Yeah, predators too..cant reroll but will get +1 to hit (unless it only affects infantry, bikers and dreadnoughts again).

The more i think about it, the more i like the change to the tactic.

Certainly getting a biker chappy now we know he gets ravenwing keyword.

Also we get thunderfire cannons Yay! oh, they are str4 now Booo!
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User





Ooof, losing Weapons of the Dark Age stings, and it looks pretty confirmed at this point that there's no Chapter-specific Litanies.

Huge buffs to Inner Circle and a solid buff to Jink however, and I think the Talonmaster just got cheaper?
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




OMG inner circle has transhuman physiology BUILT INTO IT!!!!!!

Really?!! I was excited for my deathwing army but now??? woah!!

Am I reading this right? azrael and sammy plasma dont overheat?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/05 16:43:46


 
   
Made in us
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





Central MN

princeyg wrote:
OMG inner circle has transhuman physiology BUILT INTO IT!!!!!!

Really?!! I was excited for my deathwing army but now??? woah!!

Am I reading this right? azrael and sammy plasma dont overheat?



...Yeah..i think so. Maybe because it is "Master crafted"? That is pretty slick to not have to worry about overheating plasma on those guys.

SRSFACE wrote: Every Ork player I know is a really, really cool person.
20,000 New and Growing 1000
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/592194.page#6769789 
   
Made in gb
Angelic Adepta Sororitas





Can you upgrade a deathwing apothacary to chapter command?
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

Agusto wrote:
Any news what will happen to our chapter specific stratagems?


If its not in the faq document - its gone

The rules presented in the 8th edition (printed 2018) version of Codex: Dark Angels are no longer supported, and cannot be used. Similarly, if a Dark Angels rule from Psychic Awakening: Ritual of the Damned does not feature within this document, it cannot be used. When Codex Supplement: Dark Angels is released, all of the rules within that will then replace and supersede this entire document, at which point none of the rules here can be used.

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

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A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 Mythantor wrote:
Can you upgrade a deathwing apothacary to chapter command?


It has the Apothecary keyword so yes!

Yay! vengeances no longer blow up their weapon. its just a mortal wound per 1 rolled.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/05 17:04:46


 
   
Made in mt
Regular Dakkanaut



Sweden

Damn. Both "Speed of the Raven" and "Weapons from the Dark Age" is gone :(

But all Ravenwing get a 5++ if we just move, so that is nice

And Deathwing can only be wounded on 4+

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/05 17:39:28


 
   
Made in gb
Angelic Adepta Sororitas





new inner circle combines well with new storm shields. You wont wanna fire heavy weapons at terminators because you only wounding on a 4+ but the storm shields mean they almost always gonna be saving on a 2+ versus light weapons
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




At a quick glance, any of the core Marine codex units with Ravenwing (classic bike squads, Land Speeders, plus the new Primaris stuff) don't get Jink, and the Deathwing ones (any flavour of Terminator that's not the Deathwing Terminators in the FAQ) don't get Inner Circle. I suspect there may have been a hiccup with the FAQ there...
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought





Sammael on Sableclaw is gone....only on Corvus now
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Jarval wrote:
At a quick glance, any of the core Marine codex units with Ravenwing (classic bike squads, Land Speeders, plus the new Primaris stuff) don't get Jink, and the Deathwing ones (any flavour of Terminator that's not the Deathwing Terminators in the FAQ) don't get Inner Circle. I suspect there may have been a hiccup with the FAQ there...


Those classic units have grim resolve which you get for choosing Dark Angels (its the name of the chapter tactic so will get the ravenwing rules. Jink is now mostly a 1cp stratagem for the most part though(high speed focus =4+ vs shooting, evasive something or other vs cc)

Why would you take normal terminator units over the deathwing units ever?
   
Made in gb
Angelic Adepta Sororitas





princeyg wrote:
Jarval wrote:
At a quick glance, any of the core Marine codex units with Ravenwing (classic bike squads, Land Speeders, plus the new Primaris stuff) don't get Jink, and the Deathwing ones (any flavour of Terminator that's not the Deathwing Terminators in the FAQ) don't get Inner Circle. I suspect there may have been a hiccup with the FAQ there...


Those classic units have grim resolve which you get for choosing Dark Angels (its the name of the chapter tactic so will get the ravenwing rules. Jink is now mostly a 1cp stratagem for the most part though(high speed focus =4+ vs shooting, evasive something or other vs cc)

Why would you take normal terminator units over the deathwing units ever?


How much do normal termi's cost compared to deathwing termi?
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

So, here are most of the changes from the new index, let me know if I missed anything:
GENERAL STUFF:
-We have no Interromancy discipline as of right now, although Ezekiel's datasheet seems to mention it (maybe some kind of copy/paste error?).
-We no longer have access to any of the DA strats from the old codex, although many from the PA book are here and available to us (losing Weapons from the Dark Age, Intractable, and Speed of the Raven hurts, but maybe we'll get some version of those back when we get the full supplement).
-We also lost our old codex relics, but retained most of the ones from the PA book, including the special issue wargear ones. RIP Heavenfall blade, at least until the full book comes out.
-We retain the Ravenwing and Deathwing Warlord Traits from the PA book, but have lost the others except for Brilliant Strategist (which is in the main Marines book). One of the Deathwing ones is oddly missing though.
-Jink now confers a 5++ vs. ranged attacks on units that moved and a 4++ on units that advanced (with the relevant keywords). Definitely a buff there. Oddly, RAW it doesn't seem to go to stuff from the main Marines book even though certain units in that book gain the Ravenwing keyword (like Outriders or even regular bikes/attack bikes). Time will tell if that was an oversight or a deliberate omission.
-Inner Circle changed a lot. It still grants auto-passing morale, but now it makes it harder for INNER CIRCLE units to fall back from enemies (they have to roll vs. leadership), and impossible to fall back from FALLEN units, if that matters ever. The big news is that we basically have Transhuman Physiology baked in on all our Deathwing Infantry (except, again, ones from the main book like Bladeguard and Relic Termies)!
UNIT CHANGES:
Azrael: 170 pts. (up from 160 in the MFM): His plasma always uses the supercharged statline and never overheats, which is a definite plus. His full-reroll ability is no longer an aura, but rather a one unit per turn ability (pretty sure that's common to all Chapter Masters). His sword is now flat 2 damage but otherwise the same. Still has the 4++ bubble for Infantry and Bikes. *Update* Now grants 2 CP if he is your Warlord, and his invulnerable save bubble is now restricted to ranged attacks only, a slight nerf.
Belial: 140 pts. (up from 125 in MFM): He now has the Chapter Master full reroll ability for one unit but only for Deathwing (as expected). He now carries a Master Crafted Storm Bolter (AP-1, D2) and his sword is now D3 (nasty!). All the other stuff is the same as before.
Sammael: 150 pts. (up from 140 on Corvex): The big thing to say is he seems to no longer be able to take Sableclaw and is stuck with the jetbike. Moment of silence please for that awesome gunboat. That said, his bike got a slight upgrade in that, like Azrael's plasma, his always uses the overcharged statline and doesn't kill him if it misses. He also got the CM thing except for Ravenwing. He also has 8 wounds now, which I'm pretty sure is more than he had before (think it was 6 on Corvex and 7 on Sableclaw).
Ezekiel: 125 pts. (up from 115): Big change is his aura is now basically what Asmodai's used to be (+1 attack for Dark Angels Core or Characters), except it specifically says it doesn't stack with Shock Assault. His sword got slightly better like all swords did. Still knows Smite and 3 powers, casts 2, and denies 2, although as I said earlier Interromancy seems to be gone for now so he has to take Librarius. The fact that it says he gets +1 to cast Interromancy powers suggests that we'll be getting it back with the full supplement release though.
Asmodai: 130 pts. (up from 115): His aura is now basically a buff to the Litany of Hate (+1 to cast and +3" bubble for it). Another change seems to be for all Interrogator-Chaplains: They now count all enemy units as below half strength for the purpose of Combat Attrition tests. His crozius got buffed as per standard for Chappies, and his Blades of Reason is now an extra attack with its profile (and he can't choose to make more attacks with it, just the one).
Lazarus: 110 pts. (same as MFM): As far as I can tell he didn't change at all.
Interrogator-Chaplain: 85 pts. for PA, 100 in Terminator Armor (PA same, Terminator down from 105): Pretty much the same except for the change to the Aura of Dread (see Asmodai above). Still knows Litany of Hate and one other Litany and can only recite one per turn. Jump Pack still costs 25 points for the PA version, and all the wargear pretty much costs the same as in the MFM, except that Storm Bolters for the PA version cost 5 and somehow combi-weapons also only cost 5.
Ravenwing Talonmaster: 160 pts. (down from 175): The power sword and heavy bolter changes are as standard and already known. The twin assault cannon is also the same as before. The Lieutenant buff now only affects Core units (as expected), and the ignore cover aura is restricted to Ravenwing Core units (again, as expected). His number of attacks went down from 4 to 3, but he now has 8 wounds where he used to only have 6. His BS also went up to 2+, making Corvus Occulus less of an auto-pick (but still pretty handy). Not too shabby I think; Talonmasters may still be fairly popular in DA lists. One other thing; they are Lieutenants and therefore you can take 2 in a single detachment slot!
Deathwing Apothecary: 100 pts. (up from 78): The changes here are pretty much the standard Terminator and Apothecary changes from the new Marines codex. The only other change is the fact that he doesn't take up a detachment slot if you have one of the new Deathwing Command Squad units in the same detachment.
Deathwing Champion: 80 pts. (down from 85): Pretty sure most of the changes here are the same as normal Champions in the Marines book. The Halberd now allows him to make extra swings at enemy units of 10 or more models, which is nice.
Deathwing Ancient: Missing, hopefully an oversight and not a purposeful deletion... Update: Apparently he's now just a standard Ancient in Terminator Armor in the Marines codex.
Deathwing Terminator Squad: 33 pts./model (down from 36/model): Wargear is the same as always with the standard changes from the Marines book. They got the 3rd wound, again as we knew would happen. Watchers in the Dark now give the unit a once-per-game Deny the Witch attempt.
Deathwing Knights: 47 pts./model (up from 45): 3 wounds now and the same change to Watchers in the Dark. They are also BS/WS 2+, which could be massive.
Deathwing Command Squad: 35 pts./model: New unit, works a lot like Company Veterans as far as unit size, with same wargear options as standard Deathwing Termies. They also get a bodyguard rule for Deathwing characters.
Ravenwing Apothecary: 100 pts. (up from 65): Main changes are same as other Apothecaries, although now he comes with an Astartes Grenade Launcher as standard (which he can swap for a Plasma Talon at no cost). Like the Deathwing characters above, he has the Command Squad ability, except that it requires a unit of Black Knights instead of a bespoke Command Squad unit.
Ravenwing Champion: 70 pts. (down from 75): Same basic changes as the Deathwing Champion as far as Champion abilities (always fights first, 6" heroic intervention, etc.). One loss which will be keenly felt on our Ravenwing as well as regular champions is that they no longer get a special sword (Blade of Caliban), but rather a standard master-crafted power sword. Like the other Ravenwing characters, he can choose between a Plasma Talon or Astartes Grenade Launcher, and he doesn't take up a slot if you have a unit of Black Knights in the same detachment.
Ravenwing Ancient: 100 pts. (up from 85): Mostly unchanged statwise, and has the same options as the other two Ravenwing guys as far as gear/detachments. The banner got swapped for a standard Astartes banner instead of the +1 attack buff, which hurts. Could still be nice to have your Black Knights getting in a couple of final plasma shots if and when they eat it, and he can take the relic banner.
Ravenwing Black Knights: 40 pts./model (same as before): These are now apparently Elites instead of Fast Attack for some reason. They got the third wound that the regular bikers got, which is very nice, but the big change is that, while the cost is the same as before, they now have to pay 5 points per model if they want to carry their Corvus Hammers. Ouch. That said, it's probably worth taking the hammers as they are now D2 standard, meaning that these guys are now pretty dangerous in combat, especially against MEQ.
Ravenwing Darkshroud: 130 pts. (down from 135): Very little has changed for this thing; it now costs an extra 5 pts. to swap its Heavy Bolter for an Assault Cannon. One anomaly in the Index is that the datasheet shows it as an Elites choice but the point costs page lists it as Fast Attack, which it was before. Odd.
Ravenwing Land Speeder Vengeance: 120 pts. (same as before): The vehicle itself has not changed, but its main plasma weapon now fires 2d3 shots and, when supercharged, takes a mortal wound for each unmodified hit roll of 1 rather than disabling the gun, which perhaps makes it playable now. Like the Darkshroud, it can pay 5 pts. to upgrade to an Assault Cannon (is it an upgrade though?), and it shows as Elites on the datasheet and Fast Attack on the points page.
Ravenwing Dark Talon: 210 pts. (down from 215): Lost Strafing Run, which hurts but was not unexpected with the 9th edition changes. Rift Cannon now deals 3 mortal wounds on a successful wound roll instead of normal damage, and the Stasis Bomb is now an automatic d3 mortal wounds and prevents the target unit from falling back this turn (still once per game). The plane now has 11 wounds for whatever reason too.
Nephilim Jetfighter: 190 pts. (up from 170): Also lost Strafing Run and gained a wound. Avenger Mega Bolter is now S5 and D2. Blacksword Missiles now AP-3 and D4 against enemy AIRCRAFT units. The unit itself has +1 to hit enemy AIRCRAFT.

My takeaways:
-Deathwing are going to be disgusting with their built-in Transhuman Physiology. Even anti-tank weapons are going to struggle to hurt them, especially the Deathwing Knights with their 4++. I'm definitely thinking that Deathwing Terminators could be very annoying midfield objective takers since they are not easy to shift in melee or shoot off of an objective, and their shooting can be pretty gross if they are in Tactical Doctrine (all those AP-1 storm bolters).
-Ravenwing could be pretty solid, as they have mobility to go out and grab objectives as well as some of them being able to credibly flip an objective that the opponent is holding (D2 Corvus Hammers for the win there). Pair them with a few Deathwing and use Combined Assault to really bring the pain! Talonmasters can clear a drop zone to land some Terminators, too.
-The flyers actually have me intrigued. Both of them can make good use of the new Jink rule (they both have it), which can protect them somewhat from anti-tank weapons. Dark Talons can start the Mortal Wound pain train better than before, but the stasis bomb is a bit weaker than before IMO. The Nephilim is probably going to be one of the more efficient MEQ killers in our arsenal, but it may not be worth its points now. I'm pretty sure flyers can be useful for certain positional secondaries (Engage on All Fronts), although they can't actually secure objectives at all.
-Talonmasters are still cash money, especially since they are getting a price drop. Lack of rerolls hurts, but then that was kind of OP before. Being able to take 2 in a single HQ slot means you don't have to sacrifice other buff characters to get them.
-Our go-to Warlord Trait is going to be Brilliant Strategist. Holy gak Brilliant Strategist. The ones from this Index just don't come close to being as universally good as that.
-The Relics from this book are kind of lackluster overall. Corvus Occulus is going to be a strong pick, but otherwise? Maybe a few of the regular Marine ones could be useful for us (Teeth of Terra, assuming that's still a thing). The Deathwing banner could be good as well for making those jerks even more tanky and is probably an auto-include if you're going deep on Deathwing.
-We're gonna be hurting for strats, or are we? We got some good ones in the main Marines book, plus the ones in this Index. We can live without WftDA for a little while at least.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/06 15:37:47


My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/7/24, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Imperial Knights: ~2300 | Leagues of Votann: ~1300 | Tyranids: ~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000 | Kruleboyz: ~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: ~700
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2024: 40 | Total models painted in 2025: 23 | Current main painting project: Tomb Kings
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Deathwing Ancient is in the new codex masquerading as Ancient in Terminator Armor (He gets the Deathwing keyword but not Inner Circle as of yet).
   
 
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