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I like both inceptors and hellblasters, and sometimes use both.

Inceptors are inherently glass cannons. They WILL get focused and every dead inceptor greatly hurts. On the plus side, you can factor that in and use them as a distraction carnifex in addition to their alpha strike role. Just try to set them up so your opppnent has to work for it--such as moving to suboptimal positions or abandoning a fight elsewhere.

Best to take at least two good units that can use WOTDA so that your opponent doesn't have easy target priority. One of the best things a commander can do is force their opponent to make hard decisions. That increases the odds of making mistakes.

So new to the DA game, felt like its time for a "real" marine army (my poor GK), and Ad Mech is getting a bit state

Current list I'm building working towards is the following, C&C would be appreciated, 2k list

DA Bat
Azrael
LT with power sword/plas pistol

Intercesor X 5, aux grenade launcher
Intercesor X 5, aux grenade launcher
Intercesor X 5, aux grenade launcher

Helblasters X10 (heavy plasma)

Outrider
Samael on Corvex
Talonmaster w/ heavenfall blade
Black knights x4
Black knights x4
Black knights x5
Darkshroud

What type of terrain are you using that there is anything approaching a significant amount of LOS blockage on the board? Are you sitting literally bricks down or something?

I'm usually lucky (or my opponent sloppy) if I can hide the characters in my IG army to make sure snipers of some sort don't take them out. Having enough LOS blocking terrain to actually hide a fair portion of my army seems like a pipe dream.

I think Inceptors are good but in an environment where you don't know what army you are going to go up against they (and the support to make them very good) can find themselves quickly overcome with very little contribution to the game. My preference is to units that are capable of contributing in a more general fashion that can be tailored to the type of army you are fighting. But again that is my preference and I am by no means the end all as far as army building goes. As an IG player though I would *love* to see 500+ points tied up in close range plasma like the Inceptors because it's something I can deal with in a very predictable manner, even if you use scouts to keep my line right at my deployment edge, I'll decide what you get to shoot at, not the other way around.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
So new to the DA game, felt like its time for a "real" marine army (my poor GK), and Ad Mech is getting a bit state

Current list I'm building working towards is the following, C&C would be appreciated, 2k list

DA Bat
Azrael
LT with power sword/plas pistol

Intercesor X 5, aux grenade launcher
Intercesor X 5, aux grenade launcher
Intercesor X 5, aux grenade launcher

Helblasters X10 (heavy plasma)

Outrider
Samael on Corvex
Talonmaster w/ heavenfall blade
Black knights x4
Black knights x4
Black knights x5
Darkshroud

My personal opinions:

You need scouts. At least 2 squads with bolters, CC or shotguns to act as a forward screen.

Try merging two of your BK squads into one super squad. Makes more efficient use of RW strategem or WOTDA. You'd still have enough FA for Outrider.

I don't think heavy incinerators are a good trade off vs normal. More points for +6" range and +1S but you loose out on one potential shot, plus -1 to hit if you move. Rapid fire hellblasters + Auspex Scan can neuter a poorly planned deep strike. YMMV though.

It's elite heavy, so you may have a tough time with horde lists. Hopefully the plasma is good enough antitank for mech lists.

I'd think about a RW apothecary in case Sammy has a poor melee round or runs afoul of psykers. Not a must take though.

 Swillsswil wrote:
I like both inceptors and hellblasters, and sometimes use both.

Inceptors are inherently glass cannons. They WILL get focused and every dead inceptor greatly hurts. On the plus side, you can factor that in and use them as a distraction carnifex in addition to their alpha strike role. Just try to set them up so your opppnent has to work for it--such as moving to suboptimal positions or abandoning a fight elsewhere.

Best to take at least two good units that can use WOTDA so that your opponent doesn't have easy target priority. One of the best things a commander can do is force their opponent to make hard decisions. That increases the odds of making mistakes.

this is a good poast

Hmm scouts are cheap yes but attempting to go as primaris as I can with my list. But turning 2 of the knight squads into 1 is a good idea

The hellblaster decision is one ive been debating. How much will you really be in rapid fire range with the normal ones, vs +1 str/AP when overcharging.

That is part of the question, the other part is how often do you need them to move. I always lean toward mobility and more shots close up. Your opponent may come to you and then rapid fire is better. Especially because it is cheaper.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Hmm scouts are cheap yes but attempting to go as primaris as I can with my list. But turning 2 of the knight squads into 1 is a good idea

The hellblaster decision is one ive been debating. How much will you really be in rapid fire range with the normal ones, vs +1 str/AP when overcharging.

There are lots of armies that like to run toward you, it happens far more often than you'd think that you rapid fire.

Yea that is a good point, base ones are more flexible

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Hmm scouts are cheap yes but attempting to go as primaris as I can with my list. But turning 2 of the knight squads into 1 is a good idea

The hellblaster decision is one ive been debating. How much will you really be in rapid fire range with the normal ones, vs +1 str/AP when overcharging.

I am running a ten-man Hellblaster Squad with the standard Plasma Incinerator. Azrael is with the squad to allow them to move and still get re-rolls on 1s when Supercharging. This lets them take the fight to the enemy while maintaining some standoff. This can catch the enemy off guard and gives the standard Hellblasters a battle space of 36". I have certainly used their Rapid Fire ability and its devastating.

The Plasma Incinerator can safely deal with T7 or less targets on the standard setting with Rapid Fire and Azrael plus Weapons of the Dark Age (and a Lt of course). I usually gamble and Supercharge anyway, but if the target has any sort of -1 to hit protection then Supercharging is not the best idea.

I'm aiming towards rapid-fire ones too, mostly because I'm tired of AdMech static gunlines. On the same note, it seems we're quite a lot of AdMech players turning to Dark Angels isn't it ?

What are you guys thoughts about Reivers ? I fail too see how they could be used, the only tactic I've heard about them is to give them Grapnel launchers, have them sneak up behind a enemy unit on a ruin and charge it, but that's it. So, Character hunters ? Sniper hunters ? The Shock grenade is nice but would be best used in synergy with another charging unit. Would be nice against something with a mean Overwatch. The range is really short however, I don't know if it allows easy placements to benefit from it.

Yea with azreal I really don't need them to stand still for the heavy ones, will probably switch to the standard blasters

if the heavy and assault blasters were cheaper they'd be worth considering. but somehow they're more expensive, so rapid fire is the clear choice. ditto the intercessors' options.

So I keep seeing post on aggressors and thought I'd leave my two cents

Are they slow?
A 5" move and poor access to transports would imply they are slow, but they can advance with literally no downside since their weapons are all assault and they have a rule to ignore the -1. This makes them pretty quick for infantry, with an average speed between 8 and 9 inches.

Are they undergunned?
Focusing on the auto bolt gun variety as opposed to the fire bat variety, per model they have a bit north of a hurricane bolter apiece, which is some pretty serious firepower. It's low strength and no ap, but with only 5s to wound and a very high volume of fire it can present a sizable amount of saves to anything with toughness less than 8, and shreds screens. That's before we get to the powerfists, which is the agressors answer to tougher/armored opponents.

Do they suck compared to terminators?
The cheapest a terminator squad gets for DA is 192 points for a 5 man squad, a 5 man squad of Aggressors 189 points. The aggressors will massively outgun the terminators, and be about the same effectiveness in close combat. The aggressors will be faster because they can advance with impunity, but the terminators can deep strike. Access to transportation is about even, as a repulsor and a land raider are pretty similar. Terminators are a bit tougher with a 2+/5++ save, but there are a few common weapon strengths where the aggressors are very close in toughness, str 4, str 5, and str 8. Overall I'd say aggressors are more useful than vanilla terminators as all rounder units, but after that it's hard to compare because the Aggressor occupy a niche that isn't serviced by other units.

Are they a one trick pony?
More like a two or three trick pony, certainly they can charge across the board (distraction carnifex style) and drown screens in a hail of shots, but that's only a single use for them. They can also function as good defensive fixtures, shooting twice on an auspex scan is a good discouragement for deep striking in charge range, and they make good counter chargers with their powerfists. With the hellbat configuration they are a good minefield, nobody wants to charge 12d6 auto hits so attackers will go around or take the time to shoot them to death before advancing.

On the scale given before I'd put them in the C+/B- range, not viable in every list, so situationally useful, but the situations where they are useful are fairly common.

 Aaranis wrote:

What are you guys thoughts about Reivers ? I fail too see how they could be used, the only tactic I've heard about them is to give them Grapnel launchers, have them sneak up behind a enemy unit on a ruin and charge it, but that's it. So, Character hunters ? Sniper hunters ? The Shock grenade is nice but would be best used in synergy with another charging unit. Would be nice against something with a mean Overwatch. The range is really short however, I don't know if it allows easy placements to benefit from it.

I've used reivers in a couple games now. They have never been super stars but they are great for one key reason: cheap deep strike. Don't view them as a direct threat via killing models so much as a way to harass your opponent's back lines/home objectives. Use them similar to an assault squad.

A smart opponent will hold more back if they know you have a deep striker, which is often to your advantage since DA tends to be more shooty and less choppy.

In essence, you use them as a psychological weapon. Don't expext too much from them and they won't disappoint, but they are far from mandatory.

One other pro for reivers is that they are cheaper than intercessors using the assault bolter with the added bonus of a heavy pistol. I would never take assault intercessors over these guys.

So, I just played my first game ever with the new DA codex. My opponent ran a very unoptimized Chaos soup list with Black Legion, Renegades, and even a squad of Nurglings. My list was definitely stronger which makes me feel kind of bad about winning, although I still almost lost. It ultimately came down to Abaddon failing a 4 inch charge with my opponent being out of command points (he had just spent his last 2 on Tide of Traitors). I then smushed Abaddon with a Venerable Dreadnought in my half of the turn, and we called it shortly thereafter as that was his last chance of winning (he'd have pulped Azrael and the Devastator squad around him).

My takeaways from this game:
-Azrael is too good to just leave him in the backfield in most situations. He is a monster with that Sword of Secrets. I had him with a 10-man squad of Hellblasters, but I didn't really get a chance to move as my lines got charged by a big squad of Warp Talons. My plan was to slowly walk them up the board, supercharging the plasma every turn and maybe popping WotDA a couple of times.
-Inceptors are great for chaff clearing if they take the assault bolters. They shredded so many Cultists in my opponent's backfield and he never had enough return fire to do anything to them. I ran a 3-man squad. It could be worth including 2 6-man units (one with each weapon option), dropping the first one on the first turn to clear screen units, and the second after the screens are gone to kill stuff with plasma.
-It's not a no-brainer to take Scouts over Intercessors. Some of each is definitely good. I didn't run any Scouts today (I actually ran 2 Intercessor and 1 Tactical squad), but I plan to in future, especially once I get a few more of the models. I feel like even Tacticals have their niche (like plasma/combiplasmas out of a Rhino or Drop Pod).
-Our stratagems are actually solid. The fall back and shoot one (can't remember what it's called) came in handy and allowed my Hellblasters to shoot an oncoming unit of Possessed that would have wrecked my face. I never got to use WotDA, but I already know that one's good!
-Predators are only worth it if they have a source of rerolls. Pretty much always take Dreads or especially Mortis Dreads instead as they can reroll 1's at least if they don't move.

Grimgold wrote:So I keep seeing post on aggressors and thought I'd leave my two cents

Are they slow?
A 5" move and poor access to transports would imply they are slow, but they can advance with literally no downside since their weapons are all assault and they have a rule to ignore the -1. This makes them pretty quick for infantry, with an average speed between 8 and 9 inches.

Are they undergunned?
Focusing on the auto bolt gun variety as opposed to the fire bat variety, per model they have a bit north of a hurricane bolter apiece, which is some pretty serious firepower. It's low strength and no ap, but with only 5s to wound and a very high volume of fire it can present a sizable amount of saves to anything with toughness less than 8, and shreds screens. That's before we get to the powerfists, which is the agressors answer to tougher/armored opponents.

Do they suck compared to terminators?
The cheapest a terminator squad gets for DA is 192 points for a 5 man squad, a 5 man squad of Aggressors 189 points. The aggressors will massively outgun the terminators, and be about the same effectiveness in close combat. The aggressors will be faster because they can advance with impunity, but the terminators can deep strike. Access to transportation is about even, as a repulsor and a land raider are pretty similar. Terminators are a bit tougher with a 2+/5++ save, but there are a few common weapon strengths where the aggressors are very close in toughness, str 4, str 5, and str 8. Overall I'd say aggressors are more useful than vanilla terminators as all rounder units, but after that it's hard to compare because the Aggressor occupy a niche that isn't serviced by other units.

Are they a one trick pony?
More like a two or three trick pony, certainly they can charge across the board (distraction carnifex style) and drown screens in a hail of shots, but that's only a single use for them. They can also function as good defensive fixtures, shooting twice on an auspex scan is a good discouragement for deep striking in charge range, and they make good counter chargers with their powerfists. With the hellbat configuration they are a good minefield, nobody wants to charge 12d6 auto hits so attackers will go around or take the time to shoot them to death before advancing.

On the scale given before I'd put them in the C+/B- range, not viable in every list, so situationally useful, but the situations where they are useful are fairly common.

That's a nice review, thanks for the insight, I didn't know how we were supposed to use them effectively.

Swillsswil wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:

What are you guys thoughts about Reivers ? I fail too see how they could be used, the only tactic I've heard about them is to give them Grapnel launchers, have them sneak up behind a enemy unit on a ruin and charge it, but that's it. So, Character hunters ? Sniper hunters ? The Shock grenade is nice but would be best used in synergy with another charging unit. Would be nice against something with a mean Overwatch. The range is really short however, I don't know if it allows easy placements to benefit from it.

I've used reivers in a couple games now. They have never been super stars but they are great for one key reason: cheap deep strike. Don't view them as a direct threat via killing models so much as a way to harass your opponent's back lines/home objectives. Use them similar to an assault squad.

A smart opponent will hold more back if they know you have a deep striker, which is often to your advantage since DA tends to be more shooty and less choppy.

In essence, you use them as a psychological weapon. Don't expext too much from them and they won't disappoint, but they are far from mandatory.

One other pro for reivers is that they are cheaper than intercessors using the assault bolter with the added bonus of a heavy pistol. I would never take assault intercessors over these guys.

Being a psychological weapon fits them I guess ! However Intercessors are cheaper, considering they pay their auto bolt rifle 1 pt they end up 19 pts/model and the Reivers are only cheaper at 18 pts if not taking a grav-chute/grapnel launcher. Or do you mean using them as regular troops, not deep-striking ? Then I agree, I considered that too, but didn't think much of it yet.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
So, I just played my first game ever with the new DA codex. My opponent ran a very unoptimized Chaos soup list with Black Legion, Renegades, and even a squad of Nurglings. My list was definitely stronger which makes me feel kind of bad about winning, although I still almost lost. It ultimately came down to Abaddon failing a 4 inch charge with my opponent being out of command points (he had just spent his last 2 on Tide of Traitors). I then smushed Abaddon with a Venerable Dreadnought in my half of the turn, and we called it shortly thereafter as that was his last chance of winning (he'd have pulped Azrael and the Devastator squad around him).

My takeaways from this game:
-Azrael is too good to just leave him in the backfield in most situations. He is a monster with that Sword of Secrets. I had him with a 10-man squad of Hellblasters, but I didn't really get a chance to move as my lines got charged by a big squad of Warp Talons. My plan was to slowly walk them up the board, supercharging the plasma every turn and maybe popping WotDA a couple of times.
-Inceptors are great for chaff clearing if they take the assault bolters. They shredded so many Cultists in my opponent's backfield and he never had enough return fire to do anything to them. I ran a 3-man squad. It could be worth including 2 6-man units (one with each weapon option), dropping the first one on the first turn to clear screen units, and the second after the screens are gone to kill stuff with plasma.
-It's not a no-brainer to take Scouts over Intercessors. Some of each is definitely good. I didn't run any Scouts today (I actually ran 2 Intercessor and 1 Tactical squad), but I plan to in future, especially once I get a few more of the models. I feel like even Tacticals have their niche (like plasma/combiplasmas out of a Rhino or Drop Pod).
-Our stratagems are actually solid. The fall back and shoot one (can't remember what it's called) came in handy and allowed my Hellblasters to shoot an oncoming unit of Possessed that would have wrecked my face. I never got to use WotDA, but I already know that one's good!
-Predators are only worth it if they have a source of rerolls. Pretty much always take Dreads or especially Mortis Dreads instead as they can reroll 1's at least if they don't move.

I agree with Azrael. I use him with a small horde of Intercessors and Hellblasters, walking from the board towards the enemy. They are very durable agaisn't small arms fire because the +3 and 2W, and vs plasma and heavy weapons because the 4++. They are vulnerable vs MW tought.

Aggressors are great marching to the middle with Azreal and should be evaluated in that context. I don't think there's any other role they can do better than other units.

 axisofentropy wrote:
Aggressors are great marching to the middle with Azreal and should be evaluated in that context. I don't think there's any other role they can do better than other units.

Aggressors are something new for Dark Angels, the only unit to fill a similar role for space marines prior to 8th is Devastator Centurions, which we never really had. The thing they do better than any other unit is volume of fire per point invested, and that is useful because screening units are so prevalent in 8th ed. Units like deathwing knights live and die based on our ability to clear screens out of their way so they can get to HVTs. Aggressors are quite literally the most efficient unit we have for removing screens, and can earn their points back in a single volley shooting at guardsmen, which is remarkable considering how tough guardsmen are per point invested. I went over this in the durable armies thread (linked below), but the TL;DR is if the rest of your army was as good at killing their designated targets you could reliably table an opponent in 3 or less turns. Since they can earn their points back so easily, it's not a big deal if they get shot off of the board early.

Of course math aside there are a few things that make them a bit awkward to use. The first is how random advances are, no bell curve here so every outcome is just as likely and it's easy to get a bad roll and get them stuck in the open. Second is their short range, they will likely be the closest non-assault unit to your opponent, and thus attract a lot of firepower. They have a weird target profile that is more akin to a light vehicle than infantry, they fare well against small arms, but things like las cannons will give them trouble, and they are just expensive enough to make it worth a las predators time. So they fare better in ITC style events where there is more LoS blocking terrain, and in any case should probably avoid fire lanes, which is another complication to their use.

So not a perfect unit, but one that fulfills a single valuable role better than any other, and has a few off label uses as well. Link to math:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/747552.page#9765634

Planning to take this list on Wednesday to my groups game night. I have had luck with a smaller version of this against ultramarines last week and just upscaled to 2000.



Not sure what I will be facing. But my plan is have azreal, aggressors, hellblasters, and tac squads move up and try to control midfield. Bikes hit flanks and clear chaff. Lascannons hellblasters and black knights hit the hard targets. I've got a good number of CPs and units to spend them on so I feel good using strategems liberally.

I'd use more scouts but I only have the 5 right now. Also not sure if it's worth the master for reroll 1s with the bikes. Any and all thoughts appreciated.

 FirePainter wrote:
Planning to take this list on Wednesday to my groups game night. I have had luck with a smaller version of this against ultramarines last week and just upscaled to 2000.

Spoiler:

DA Battalion
Azreal
Lieutenant w/ storm bolter
Scout squad bolters
Tac squad plas/combi-plas
Tac squad plas/combi-plas
3 aggressors
Company ancient
Dev squad 4 lascannoned
10 hellblasters

DA outrider
Master w/ jump pack & storm bolter
Talonmasters w/ heavenfall blade
5 bikers 2 plasma guns
5 bikers 2 plasma guns
5 black knights

Not sure what I will be facing. But my plan is have azreal, aggressors, hellblasters, and tac squads move up and try to control midfield. Bikes hit flanks and clear chaff. Lascannons hellblasters and black knights hit the hard targets. I've got a good number of CPs and units to spend them on so I feel good using strategems liberally.

I'd use more scouts but I only have the 5 right now. Also not sure if it's worth the master for reroll 1s with the bikes. Any and all thoughts appreciated.

Looks pretty solid. I was wondering about the scouts till I saw your explanation.

With the amount of plasma bikes the master is a decent pick. Probably will want to keep him with BKs & Talonmaster if they all split up.

Only thing I might do different is try to squeeze in a couple rhinos for the tac marines, since you said you want them midfield. Probably would need to reduce a couple bike squad sizes to find the points. They would give you great ablative wounds, are fast, and after you drop the squad you charge something with it. I've tied up land raiders and lemans so many times with a rhino its hillarious.

As is should still do well though, I just like to provide options whenever I see a list.

Your list and its battle plan is fairly similar to a couple I'm considering. My big question is whether to take a 2nd scout squad for additional denial. Let us know how that one works out for you in practice!

Here are mine:
Operation: Pandorax

Hunting the Fallen

So, I'm curious as to what you guys think about this list:

Main thing I'm concerned about is psychic defense (of which this list has absolutely none) but with the beta rules for Smite I'm not as worried. Is this at least a workable concept for a list, or should I go back to the drawing board?

 ZergSmasher wrote:
So, I'm curious as to what you guys think about this list:

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Dark Angels) [59 PL, 1106pts] ++

+ Flyer +

Ravenwing Dark Talon [8 PL, 160pts]: 2x Hurricane bolter

+ Dedicated Transport +

Razorback [5 PL, 116pts]: Storm bolter, Twin assault cannon

+ Heavy Support +

Hellblaster Squad [16 PL, 330pts]
. 9x Hellblaster: 9x Plasma incinerator
. Hellblaster Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Plasma incinerator

+ HQ +

Azrael [9 PL, 180pts]
. Warlord: Brilliant Stragegist

Primaris Lieutenants [5 PL, 74pts]
. Primaris Lieutenant: Bolt pistol, Heavenfall Blade

+ Troops +

Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]: 4x Scout (Combat Knife)
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Combat knife

Scout Squad [4 PL, 65pts]
. Heavy Weapon Scout: Heavy bolter
. 3x Scout (Boltgun)
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Combat knife

Scout Squad [8 PL, 126pts]
. Heavy Weapon Scout: Missile launcher
. 5x Scout (Sniper rifle): 5x Sniper rifle
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Dark Angels) [53 PL, 891pts] ++

+ HQ +

Master [6 PL, 129pts]: Jump Pack, Storm shield, Thunder hammer

+ Fast Attack +

Inceptor Squad [20 PL, 270pts]: 5x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant
. Assault Bolters: Assault bolter

Inceptor Squad [20 PL, 354pts]: 5x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant
. Plasma exterminators: Plasma Exterminator

Ravenwing Darkshroud [7 PL, 138pts]: Heavy bolter

++ Total: [112 PL, 1997pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Main thing I'm concerned about is psychic defense (of which this list has absolutely none) but with the beta rules for Smite I'm not as worried. Is this at least a workable concept for a list, or should I go back to the drawing board?

I've used many lists without active psyker defense. It's not a show stopper as long as you have ablative wounds to soak smites (scouts, rhinos, etc). If you use beta smite rules it will be even less of an issue. Your inceptors will need to be wary of psykers though!

I'm interested in the double inceptors and hearing how that goes. That's a lot of points for not many models. Not saying don't do it, just an observation.

Lastly, you may want to use your relic to give your master the shroud. With the melee kit you've given him he would be very hard to kill with the -1 to hit. Unless you plan on getting that Lt into melee (which will take time foot slogging) the heavenfall blade may not have much impact.

Noob question, as I haven't played DA yet. Is an Apothecary worthwhile to put with Hellblasters and a Master? Since the Hellblasters have 2W each, they would benifit from the healing, and having models come back from the dead would really irritate your opponent.

Shrapnelbait wrote:
Noob question, as I haven't played DA yet. Is an Apothecary worthwhile to put with Hellblasters and a Master? Since the Hellblasters have 2W each, they would benifit from the healing, and having models come back from the dead would really irritate your opponent.

Not a bad idea, personally I like apothecary and ancient, 50/50 chance to shoot when killed, and then a 50/50 chance to get back up and shoot again, and then thank your opponent for an extra shot. Master doesn't do as much for dark angels as they do for other chapters because of grim resolve, so I generally have been doing librarian and lieutenants.

For me it depends on how many helblasters. If you are using a full squad of 10 it is probably worth it. For a smaller squad I'd rather add more models to the squad. It is probably worth it though since bringing back 1 helblasters basically pays for the apothecary.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Unless points are an issue I'd go azreal over a master, re-roll and 4++ save make the squad much better.

Shrapnelbait wrote:
Noob question, as I haven't played DA yet. Is an Apothecary worthwhile to put with Hellblasters and a Master? Since the Hellblasters have 2W each, they would benifit from the healing, and having models come back from the dead would really irritate your opponent.

Apothecaries are not clear cut on whether to take or not. Keep in mind that you will only have around 4-6 chances to bring back a dead model in most games. With a 50/50 chance that's 2-3 models over the game. They need to be pricy models to be worth it.

Also keep in mind that pricy models usually have more than one wound and you HAVE to heal before you can res a model in a unit. That might bring down your opportunities further.

Having said all that, I actually like apothecaries not for ressing, but to keep Azrael and Sammy alive. In a couple games they have been clutch in avoiding character death and therefore were very worth the points.

How do we use regular Ravenwing Bikes ? To tarpit ? To claim objectives ? To shoot at stuff ? I now have 9 thanks to 3 DV boxes and was wondering how to include them in my AdMech/DA army.