Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

New FAQ

Speed of the Raven got a small buff

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/warhammer_40000_dark_angels_en.pdf

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
New FAQ

Speed of the Raven got a small buff

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/warhammer_40000_dark_angels_en.pdf

A short and sweet FAQ - perhaps a sign of a good Codex?

I think most were playing the Ravenwing Strat that way, but it's nice to have confirmation!

Sadly they didn't change Deathwing Assault point cost... used it today, wasn't really amazed by it.

Also, Ravenwing Attack Squad Sergeant is still missing the option to get a combi-weapon

It is in the index so he still has it

So I tested out shroud of heroes on my chaplain dread today, wow it's good, the combination of character on a dread with -1 to hit kept it in the game long after the power fists should have dropped it, even 2+ to hit character with a fist or hammer needs 4's, the termies I assaulted needed 5's, everything else just had trouble hitting and wounding it most of the time.

Giving it a solid A with the shroud, it flys up in a raven with 5 knights, as my warlord it had rr to charge too, solid.

Hi everyone,
Has anyone tried running an infantry gunline with azrael?
How competitive is it?
Currently i'm thinking of runnning the following list:

Azrael
Company Ancient
Hellblasters x10
Scouts x5 bolters
intercessors 2x5
Leutenant
Master with jumpack
DarkShroud
Inceptors Assault Bolters x6
Inceptors Plasma x5
Company veterans x2 + stormshield +1 lascannon
Company Veterans x2 + 1 lascannon
Librarian with jumpPack
Culexus

The idea behind this list is castling around on some objective in cover and deepstriking inceptors with WotDA to eliminate anti infantry vehicles. Afterwards maybe footslogging everyone towards opponent.

Really like the Ancient with hellblasters combo that allows to shoot again if killed by overcharge

Culexus seems like a good option against psychic armies and especially usefull vs space maines null zone, or to tie something up in CC for a turn or two

Hey guys,
I've been struggling to find a list that I'm pleased with so haven't even played with my DA yet. I really want to, because got a darkshroud and the talonmaster which I'm eager to test out.

I have couple questions for you:

1. Is playing a deathwing knights anyway near valid with only DS, full charge, drop on an objective or LR is the only way to go?

2. What about what's the comp way to use RW bikers, I've been thinking 2x plasma and power axe on sergeant, but should I just go max plasma? I'll throw in some ablatives in the two squads I'll field.

Thanks.

Xirax wrote:
Hey guys,
I've been struggling to find a list that I'm pleased with so haven't even played with my DA yet. I really want to, because got a darkshroud and the talonmaster which I'm eager to test out.

I have couple questions for you:

1. Is playing a deathwing knights anyway near valid with only DS, full charge, drop on an objective or LR is the only way to go?

2. What about what's the comp way to use RW bikers, I've been thinking 2x plasma and power axe on sergeant, but should I just go max plasma? I'll throw in some ablatives in the two squads I'll field.

Thanks.

My DW Knight are rarely successful with a first turn charge after DS, and they usually burn a CP in failing their charge...In one Tourney game my Knights never got into combat, but they did soak up fire and chased a chunk of his army away from an objective. I have tried the Hunt the Fallen Stratagem as well - even though it hasn't panned out yet I might keep trying. Even if they fail the first turn charge, though, they certainly attract a lot of attention and can usually survive. Psychic attacks that deal Mortal Wounds are a problem - the Watcher can help but only for one. DW Knights in your backfield are not something that can usually be ignored. Getting them a transport costs as much as a second squad. I'm trying a Stormraven now - expensive! All that to say that I think that either option is valid but have a backup plan.

As for RW bikes, I don't think that any of them are ablative. I add extra bikes to my RW squads to get more dakka, not to soak up casualties. Plasma certainly seems the way to go now, although Black Knights let you really use WFTDA.

For RW bikes I think maximizing shooting. Usually either plasma or flamers. I don't think investing in combat weapons has a lot of value

I strongly prefer transporting DWK. They're really easy to run away from. That said, in the 2 games I've used them, my unit of 10 DWK has been pretty successful at boxing in the opponent. I failed my charge once but denied his escape with my unit of bikes, sammael, and talonmaster on the other side of his main force. The game where I made the charge against a broodlord and some of his flunkies, life was good. After the initial house cleaning, they just happened to be positioned where all the action was, so they were free to move on to other juicy targets.

Hi all, trying to decide between:

Company Ancient to babysit a unit of plasma cannon devs and missile launcher devs (the thinking being a lot of people might go after the plasma devs fearing WFTDA and for their trouble will then wear a whole lot of supercharged plasma shots if the devs die).

Or, if I scrouge around for a few points I can get a Ravenwing Champion.

So, in short, with the 4+ roll needed for it to work .... is the Company Ancient effective in your experience?

Has anyone used the RW Champion? Does he manage to succeed in his character killing role?

I found the ancient well worth the points since you may also get an additional shot when killed by overcharged plasma. Paired with hellblasters he is especially good

Timur wrote:
I found the ancient well worth the points since you may also get an additional shot when killed by overcharged plasma. Paired with hellblasters he is especially good

Yep agreed, the bonus shots in the event of rolling a 1 (albeit I'd need to roll 1 twice assuming I'm not moving) was one of the things that attracted me to the idea.

Allegedly this Dark Angels army won a 5 game GT in Mountain View, CA. Two Darkshrouds seems crazy but I haven't won a GT.

But was that GT using the codex or the index for DA?

I assume the idea behind two shrouds is to have one move and advance with the dark talons and the other for sammy and his crew

 Vector Strike wrote:
But was that GT using the codex or the index for DA?

The list has a talonmaster so it would be codex. Solid list.

Hey guys getting ready to put together my first da flyer and I've been reading that the dark talon with the rift cannon and the 2 hurricane bolters on the wings are the way to go. Have your games been backing this up?

 Tagony wrote:
Hey guys getting ready to put together my first da flyer and I've been reading that the dark talon with the rift cannon and the 2 hurricane bolters on the wings are the way to go. Have your games been backing this up?

Yes. You might buy another one.

Hi guys
Here is a list that I have been working on, haven’t test it yet. Need to buy some stuff first 
What do you think? I think its seems really solid.

I need to get rid of around 150p, which one ven dread or 5 man dev with lasc?

My thoughts: dreds/ devestaors in the back, try to be behind cover and stay still for the reroll on 1s.
All the bikes around darkshroud. Move all the bikes as far as possible to get within 12” rapid. And the black knights advance for the extra range and inv save. Use command point so I can still shoot and charge with the black knights, and use another command point so the plasmas are deadly 
Keep Sammy and the huntmaster close for rerolls on hit and wounds.
The regular bikes shoot 36 bolter shoots and 18 plasma shoots.
Flyers move and do their thing.


You got som good dakka:
Bolter shoots 36+24+24+4 =88
Assault cannon 12+12+6=30
Heavy bolter 6+6=12
Lascannon + missile 3+3 =6
Plasma 18+10 =28
2 bombs and 2 rift cannon
Sniper 5


HQ
- Sammael in Sableclaw 183p (Twin Assault C 0p, Twin Heavy Bolter 0p, Raven Sword 0p) 183p
- Ravenwing Talonmaster 123p (Twin Assault C 44p, Twin Heavy Bolter 17p, PS 4p) 188p
(PS –replace it with hevenfall blade 0p)Warlord
-Librarian bike 119p (FS 14p) 133p

Elites
-Venerable dreadnought 90p (twin lasc 50p, missile launcher 25p) 165p
-Venerable dreadnought 90p (twin lasc 50p, missile launcher 25p) 165p

Flyer
- Dark Talon 140p (rift cannon 0p, 2x hurricane bolters 20p, stasis bomb 0p) 160p
- Dark Talon 140p (rift cannon 0p, 2x hurricane bolters 20p, stasis bomb 0p) 160p

Fast Attack
-5x bikes knights 46p (Boltpistol 0p, Plasma talon 0p, PB 5p) 235p
-3x bikes 25p (bolt pistol 0p, 2x plasma gun 13p, Combi plasma 15p) 116p
-3x bikes 25p (bolt pistol 0p, 2x plasma gun 13p, Combi plasma 15p) 116p
-3x bikes 25p (bolt pistol 0p, 2x plasma gun 13p, Combi plasma 15p) 116p
-Darkshroud 128p (Assault cannon 22p) 150p

Troops
-5x Scout 11p (Sniper 4p, Camo cloak 3p, bolt pistol 0p) 90p

Heavy
5 Devestator 13p (Bolt pistol 0p, Lascannon 25p, Armorium cherub 5p) 170p


2147p

 Tagony wrote:
Hey guys getting ready to put together my first da flyer and I've been reading that the dark talon with the rift cannon and the 2 hurricane bolters on the wings are the way to go. Have your games been backing this up?

There's just something about the idea of putting 12 Ak47s under the wings of a fighter jet and expecting it to be effective that amuses me.

It seems that sniper scouts are a waste of point, in many armies ive seen they are usually used as a screen.

What do you guys think? Is it worth investing in scouts to snipe hqs?a 5 man sniper squad is not likely to kill an hq

Timur wrote:
It seems that sniper scouts are a waste of point, in many armies ive seen they are usually used as a screen.

What do you guys think? Is it worth investing in scouts to snipe hqs?a 5 man sniper squad is not likely to kill an hq

I've run 5 sniper scouts in every Dark Angels army I played in 8th edition and they are usually pretty terrible. There has been one game where they did well because the other army didn't have much shooting. Other than that, they are either a deep strike screen or First Blood for the other guy.

Heck I used some earlier tonight. Turn one they ran away from their deployment spot, turn 2 they shot 1-2 orks, turn 3 they got charged and wiped out.

I'd much rather have bolter scouts or CCW scouts, but that's how they're built and I really like the paint job so they are staying in the list.

Tactical squads have been equally useless. They are little more than Battalion filler and bullet catchers for the good stuff.

IMO the Dark Angels snipe characters with Hellblasters and Black Knights, right after the Talonmaster and some Razorbacks kill all the guys standing in front of the characters. I've got maybe 30-35 games of 8th in and I have yet to see sniper rifles make much of an impact.

Scout snipers, ratings, rangers, etc all need very large numbers to fish enough 6's to kill most characters you need dead. At least 15 rifles. Don't think that's worth it but many meta armies do have lynchpin characters.

What's the case with vindicare assassin?He seems good against infantry and ignores invulnerable saves.
But i assume you need two of those to make an impact on the game since one is not likely to kill a character on turn one, and thats whole 180 points which can be spent on a darktalon

And a smart opponent might simply put his important HQs out LoS making the vindicares totally useless

Seems to me that its not worth taking any kind of snipers, since they will probably not be able to kill anything really important in the first turn or two

theriam wrote:
Hi guys
Here is a list that I have been working on, haven’t test it yet. Need to buy some stuff first 
What do you think? I think its seems really solid.

I need to get rid of around 150p, which one ven dread or 5 man dev with lasc?

My thoughts: dreds/ devestaors in the back, try to be behind cover and stay still for the reroll on 1s.
All the bikes around darkshroud. Move all the bikes as far as possible to get within 12” rapid. And the black knights advance for the extra range and inv save. Use command point so I can still shoot and charge with the black knights, and use another command point so the plasmas are deadly 
Keep Sammy and the huntmaster close for rerolls on hit and wounds.
The regular bikes shoot 36 bolter shoots and 18 plasma shoots.
Flyers move and do their thing.


You got som good dakka:
Bolter shoots 36+24+24+4 =88
Assault cannon 12+12+6=30
Heavy bolter 6+6=12
Lascannon + missile 3+3 =6
Plasma 18+10 =28
2 bombs and 2 rift cannon
Sniper 5


HQ
- Sammael in Sableclaw 183p (Twin Assault C 0p, Twin Heavy Bolter 0p, Raven Sword 0p) 183p
- Ravenwing Talonmaster 123p (Twin Assault C 44p, Twin Heavy Bolter 17p, PS 4p) 188p
(PS –replace it with hevenfall blade 0p)Warlord
-Librarian bike 119p (FS 14p) 133p

Elites
-Venerable dreadnought 90p (twin lasc 50p, missile launcher 25p) 165p
-Venerable dreadnought 90p (twin lasc 50p, missile launcher 25p) 165p

Flyer
- Dark Talon 140p (rift cannon 0p, 2x hurricane bolters 20p, stasis bomb 0p) 160p
- Dark Talon 140p (rift cannon 0p, 2x hurricane bolters 20p, stasis bomb 0p) 160p

Fast Attack
-5x bikes knights 46p (Boltpistol 0p, Plasma talon 0p, PB 5p) 235p
-3x bikes 25p (bolt pistol 0p, 2x plasma gun 13p, Combi plasma 15p) 116p
-3x bikes 25p (bolt pistol 0p, 2x plasma gun 13p, Combi plasma 15p) 116p
-3x bikes 25p (bolt pistol 0p, 2x plasma gun 13p, Combi plasma 15p) 116p
-Darkshroud 128p (Assault cannon 22p) 150p

Troops
-5x Scout 11p (Sniper 4p, Camo cloak 3p, bolt pistol 0p) 90p

Heavy
5 Devestator 13p (Bolt pistol 0p, Lascannon 25p, Armorium cherub 5p) 170p


2147p

You have sammi listed at his corvex price not Sableclaw .(33 points different). You also forgot to pay for twin bolters on all your bikes squads so each squad is 6 points under it's actual cost (that adds 18 to your list). So really you are over by almost 200 points (198).

As far as I can tell you list is an outrider detachment and a patrol detachment, so you only have 4 CP, which is really lacking.

You need a better screen against turn 1 assault/deepstrike alpha strikes. 5 scouts just won't cut it. I would drop the sniper rifles and camo cloaks off the scouts as neither are all that great a buy (saves you 35 points). I would also drop the assault cannon on the darkshroud, you'll want to advance it every turn for jink so will rarely fire that weapon (saves another 12 points.) That gets you back to being over by only 151. However I would look to add in 2 more 5 man scout squads with bolters. Which would put you over by 261 points. That would get you to a battalion + outrider and 7 CP. It also looks like your bike libby is off on points as the most expensive force weapon is only 10 points. I'd go for a sword at 8 points which puts him at 127.

I would probably drop the dreads as their load out with lascannon and missile is meh, and they are a lot of points. Dropping both of them gets you 330 points back, so 75 points to play with.

Potentially you could add some extra bodies to your dev squad, heavy bolters to a couple scout units, another black knight etc.

Beyond that you regular bikers (not sargent) should always have chainswords instead of pistols as they are the better option, as you will almost never use the pistol.

It is unlikely that you will get all your bikes in rapid fire turn 1, unless you get very lucky 14" move + 12" shooting is only 28" threat range, so essentially you would need to be on your deployment edge straight across from the unit you wanted to shoot, so some will and some won't. You may want to use speed of the raven on one of those instead of the Knights unless you feel like you need to overcharge the knights, or assault with them.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Timur wrote:
What's the case with vindicare assassin?He seems good against infantry and ignores invulnerable saves.
But i assume you need two of those to make an impact on the game since one is not likely to kill a character on turn one, and thats whole 180 points which can be spent on a darktalon

And a smart opponent might simply put his important HQs out LoS making the vindicares totally useless

Seems to me that its not worth taking any kind of snipers, since they will probably not be able to kill anything really important in the first turn or two

I agree with this, characters are too easy to hide, or too durable. Snipers are fishing for 6s all the time, which makes them not all that great. Especially when some armies have -1 to hit, so you never get a 6. Snipers were kind of a think when commissars were an issue, but even then those characters could just hide out of LOS. The biggest targets now would be things like primaris psykers etc. If sniper rifles were a free swap or maybe 1 point on scouts they might be ok, but they are too pricey for what they accomplish.

axisofentropy- Thanks!

 vonjankmon wrote:
I think people assume that getting their Inceptors in range is always going to be easy. I play Guard and I can tell you that if I went up against any SM player with Plasma Inceptors my Russ's will be at least 9 inches behind my line of guardsman or scout sentinels.

Have fun killing a 70ish point guard squad with that 400ish point combo of Master, Lieutenant, and Inceptors. Longer range units don't suffer from that limitation. I use Plasma Scions in my guard army and there are games when I am waiting until 2nd or 3rd turn to bring them in because I am playing an opponent that has a well structured army to rebuff deep strike. Honestly I feel that DS protection is a requirement given the current meta in 8th and while you may catch the occasional player not doing it, anyone that even remotely has their act together is screening with cheap units.

As someone else who plays guard, if I'm forced to keep a line 9ish inches in front,sides and behind my Russ tanks you probably won a victory in point values spent threatening each other. It's the scion problem only with Space Marines.

If a single vindicare forces enemy HQ out of sight, that's value. And yeah if plasma inceptors force tanks 9" further back, that's value too.