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Rule book rules is not 1 set of rules, it's 2 sets of rules.

Gang War 1 is a different set of rules all together.

Only Gang War 1 and less than half of the rule book is "Necromunda" as we know it, the rest is something... different.

It seems many people really dislike the sewer missions. It know this may not help everyone, but in my current Necro group, we do some of the sewer missions as special combats to help build up juves.

We take usually about 8 or so juves from either gang and have them do the flat 2d board missions. Since those missions are meatgriders, the models who survive often get a decent amount of experience and often a funny or cool story to boot. Which allows us to have a... baptism by fire, if you will and a quick means of ranking up a bit of exp for the newbies.

Can you play Necromunda ( Easy ) just using the rulebook? Yes.
Can you play Necromunda ( Advanced ) using Gang War? Yes.
Simple as that.

Many parts of the rule book is incompatible with Gang War 1.

Did you ever summarize the two books and look at the differences? I did.

There's 3 different games:

1) rulebook simple
2) rulebook advanced
3) parts of rulebook (advanced) + Gang War 1

From what I've heard of estimates, less than half of the rulebook is compatible with Gang War 1.

The skills in the rulebook simply does not work with Gang war1! It just doesn't work, no matter what anyone say.

Please note that I'm not at all thinking about 2d/3d or Zone Mortalis or Sector Mechanicus here!

That's probably because one deals with 2D terrain, the other 3D terrain.

Please....the horse is long since dead. Please, for the love of whichever deity you may or may not believe in, let it go.

Never mind ...

This has probably already been mentioned, but I'd like to see pieces from Forge World to add the various dangerous terrain elements to the resin ZM tiles.

On which note, does anyone have a photo of the card and resin tiles together? The resin tiles say they're 12" across, but the card tiles are more like 11.5"

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
That's probably because one deals with 2D terrain, the other 3D terrain.

Please....the horse is long since dead. Please, for the love of whichever deity you may or may not believe in, let it go.

Okay, just note that nothing I said had anything to do with the 2d/3d aspect of the game.

Baxx wrote:
Many parts of the rule book is incompatible with Gang War 1.

Elaborate on what you mean by 'incompatible'.

Mutually exclusive.

Baxx wrote:
Mutually exclusive.

I'm pretty sure H.B.M.C. was asking for an example of incompatible rules, not a definition of the word incompatible.

Yes ok, here's differences that do not work together between the two books:

-skills
-costs
-a few armoury entries
-scenarios

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Never mind ...

This has probably already been mentioned, but I'd like to see pieces from Forge World to add the various dangerous terrain elements to the resin ZM tiles.

On which note, does anyone have a photo of the card and resin tiles together? The resin tiles say they're 12" across, but the card tiles are more like 11.5"

I know the doors from Necromunda don't fit the doorways on the resin Mortalis boards

Baxx wrote:
Yes ok, here's differences that do not work together between the two books:

-skills
-costs
-a few armoury entries
-scenarios

So... not the rules, then?

Ahh, skills is something different from rules? Yes then I understand the confusion! Sorry for calling skills, scenarios, costs and armoury entries for rules.

 Rolsheen wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Never mind ...

This has probably already been mentioned, but I'd like to see pieces from Forge World to add the various dangerous terrain elements to the resin ZM tiles.

On which note, does anyone have a photo of the card and resin tiles together? The resin tiles say they're 12" across, but the card tiles are more like 11.5"

I know the doors from Necromunda don't fit the doorways on the resin Mortalis boards

Too big or too small? I was sure someone official had said they do fit, on one of the Facebook pages. :(

 Albertorius wrote:

Baxx wrote:
Yes ok, here's differences that do not work together between the two books:

-skills
-costs
-a few armoury entries
-scenarios

So... not the rules, then?

What are they then, suggestions?

Baxx wrote:
-skills
-costs

So the basic introductory skills and costs not designed for campaign play and to get people started are superseded by a more complete campaign system.

Big deal.

Baxx wrote:
-a few armoury entries

The question remains whether these are mistakes or intentional. We'll have to wait until an FAQ comes out.

Baxx wrote:
-scenarios

How?

I didn't say it was big deal. I said they weren't compatible. Feels like you're moving the goalpost here. There's about 20 or so pages in the rulebook which belong to one of the dead versions of the game.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Baxx wrote:
-scenarios

How?

Lose-lose for both teams playing.

Must be freezing in all layers of Hell when H.B.M.C. is being willfully obtuse in order to defend GW.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

Baxx wrote:
Yes ok, here's differences that do not work together between the two books:

-skills
-costs
-a few armoury entries
-scenarios

So... not the rules, then?

What are they then, suggestions?

They are, as he has already pointed out, skills, costs, a few armoury entries and scenarios. "The rules", I would tend to assume would be the stuff put in the sections called "The Rules", "Basic Rules", Advanced Rules", instead of in the sections called "Founding a Gang", "Underhive Battles" or "Underhive Armoury". Same as, for example, spells are not "the rules", even if they have rules.

But that's just me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Baxx wrote:
I didn't say it was big deal. I said they weren't compatible. Feels like you're moving the goalpost here. There's about 20 or so pages in the rulebook which belong to one of the dead versions of the game.

That, though, is absolutely true. There is stuff in the book I would use very little if at all, particularly the gang creation section (which, IIRC, also contains the aforementioned skills), and I guess I would need to modify the corebook scenarios.

OTOH, I am planning to use the Zone Mortalis tiles in conjunction with my 3D table (the idea is to have places on the 3D board where you can access the ZM lower level, to give the board an additional level, although I guess I have enough of them to also have upper levels... hmmmmm), so I will be using all the rules, both the 2D and the 3D ones at the same time.

 Albertorius wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

Baxx wrote:
Yes ok, here's differences that do not work together between the two books:

-skills
-costs
-a few armoury entries
-scenarios

So... not the rules, then?

What are they then, suggestions?

They are, as he has already pointed out, skills, costs, a few armoury entries and scenarios. "The rules", I would tend to assume would be the stuff put in the sections called "The Rules", "Basic Rules", Advanced Rules", instead of in the sections called "Founding a Gang", "Underhive Battles" or "Underhive Armoury". Same as, for example, spells are not "the rules", even if they have rules.

But that's just me.

I'd say it very much is, or else I've been playing wargames wrong for 20+ years. The rules are, you know, the rules, all of the rules. They could call the chapter in the book of rules "The Greeblesnorkelry" and the statements within it providing specific instructions on how to do a thing within the game system in question would still be rules.

 Yodhrin wrote:
I'd say it very much is, or else I've been playing wargames wrong for 20+ years. The rules are, you know, the rules, all of the rules. They could call the chapter in the book of rules "The Greeblesnorkelry" and the statements within it providing specific instructions on how to do a thing within the game system in question would still be rules.

Well, then you have.

The rules are the rules. for example, There are rules on how skills work, and then there are the skills, which have rules, but are not rules. That's why they are called Skill rules, Movement rules, combat rules, and so on and so forth. Same with weapons, which are not rules. Same with scenarios, which are not rules. All of them have rules, but are not rules.

For example: weapons. The rules governing them don't change between the core rulebook and Gang War, even though some of the specific rules and costs for them do. Same with skills: the rules governing them are the same, even though in Gang War is very complicated to get Gunslinger for an Escher ganger while being very easy for gangs made with the core.

An example of a contradiction of sorts between rules: LOS rules for ZM and SM. Those are different, incompatible rules.

Can we continue with the actual topic of the thread now?

Yes, let's stop being willfully obtuse just to defend GW marketing choices.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Yes, let's stop being willfully obtuse just to defend GW marketing choices.

Oh, don't get me wrong, defending GW's decisions is not what I want. I personally hate what they've done for this game with the day one DLC and the "gotta catch them all" philosophy that seems to be fueling the supplements. I believe that if the game flops much of the blame will have to be pointed there.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Must be freezing in all layers of Hell when H.B.M.C. is being willfully obtuse in order to defend GW.

No I just don't think that what Baxx is saying has much merit.

How are the scenarios not compatible? Outside of areas that are obviously overridden by a more complete campaign system in GW1, what's wrong with the Newcromunda rulebook?

Is he implying that the Zone Mortalis rules are contradicted by the Sector Mechanicus rules? It's just a different method of playing the same game.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 Rolsheen wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Never mind ...

This has probably already been mentioned, but I'd like to see pieces from Forge World to add the various dangerous terrain elements to the resin ZM tiles.

On which note, does anyone have a photo of the card and resin tiles together? The resin tiles say they're 12" across, but the card tiles are more like 11.5"

I know the doors from Necromunda don't fit the doorways on the resin Mortalis boards

Too big or too small? I was sure someone official had said they do fit, on one of the Facebook pages. :(

Too big, the casting variance of the resin tiles means they'll fit sometimes. I think it was on Battlebunnies

Baxx wrote:
Rule book rules is not 1 set of rules, it's 2 sets of rules.

Gang War 1 is a different set of rules all together.

Only Gang War 1 and less than half of the rule book is "Necromunda" as we know it, the rest is something... different.

I... can't understand how you think this.

This is stupid.

Please read the rules before you play, you obviously haven't.

 Albertorius wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
I'd say it very much is, or else I've been playing wargames wrong for 20+ years. The rules are, you know, the rules, all of the rules. They could call the chapter in the book of rules "The Greeblesnorkelry" and the statements within it providing specific instructions on how to do a thing within the game system in question would still be rules.

Well, then you have.

The rules are the rules. for example, There are rules on how skills work, and then there are the skills, which have rules, but are not rules. That's why they are called Skill rules, Movement rules, combat rules, and so on and so forth. Same with weapons, which are not rules. Same with scenarios, which are not rules. All of them have rules, but are not rules.

For example: weapons. The rules governing them don't change between the core rulebook and Gang War, even though some of the specific rules and costs for them do. Same with skills: the rules governing them are the same, even though in Gang War is very complicated to get Gunslinger for an Escher ganger while being very easy for gangs made with the core.

An example of a contradiction of sorts between rules: LOS rules for ZM and SM. Those are different, incompatible rules.

Can we continue with the actual topic of the thread now?

OK, so you are just resorting to gratuitous semantics then, thought so. If it has rules, it is rules. Presenting those rules as a scenario, or a weapon profile, or a table is irrelevant - if they are mandates for how to play, they are rules. I mean by your ludicrous argument, GW could release the next Space Marine codex with Movie Marine-style rules where every Marine is an army unto themselves, and yet "the rules haven't changed" because you still use the same army selection method from the core rulebook to compose a force of the new style.

So I'm going to try and steer the thread back to what its supposed to be. I understand some people are upset and the cutting of content practice, I know I am, but no need to be petty and much such hyperbolic statements and insult each other guys.

I for one am fully happy (overall) with the game, though I wish like many others there wasn't cut content. That being said, I just bought a bunch of new Sector Mechanicus terrain and thermic plasma conduits. Which if any of you haven't gotten them. Do it. Super easy, reasonably priced and they have little plasma charges you can plug in! Both adorable as well as useful plot/mission objectives.

 Yodhrin wrote:
OK, so you are just resorting to gratuitous semantics then, thought so. If it has rules, it is rules. Presenting those rules as a scenario, or a weapon profile, or a table is irrelevant - if they are mandates for how to play, they are rules. I mean by your ludicrous argument, GW could release the next Space Marine codex with Movie Marine-style rules where every Marine is an army unto themselves, and yet "the rules haven't changed" because you still use the same army selection method from the core rulebook to compose a force of the new style.

OK then, to Ignore it is. Keep using whatever definition you feel happy with.

Now can we get back to the actual topic of the thread?