Codex Deamons on the way! (Full leaks in OP)

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**xxhikaru123**

DJ3 wrote:
xxhikaru123 wrote:
rvd1ofakind wrote:
Errr... that's 4++ on the nurgle warlord trait.... right? ._.

4+. 2+ standing in the tree I suppose. Or rly good against bolter / no AP fire.

Any chance you could get us the timing on triggering the universal +1 inv stratagem?

Timing makes or breaks defensive stratagems.

During your own turn: awful
Start of opponent turn: decent
When targeted by an attack: great
When rolling saves: amazing

Start of a phase til end of the the phase

**Cheex**

Oh, some of those traits are really good. Thanks!

**DJ3**

xxhikaru123 wrote:
Start of a phase til end of the the phase

That puts it between decent and great. Thanks for the clarification.

**CthuluIsSpy**

xxhikaru123 wrote:
Khorne

1. Each time an enemy unit fails morale within 8" of your warlord, that unit loses 1 additional model.
2. Add 1 to warlord Attack characteristics, if there are more enemy models within 8" of it than friendly models.
3. 6+++ FnP. if you pass the 6+++ FnP, you can reroll all failed hits and wounds until end of your next turn. ( )
4. +1 warlord Strength
5. Each time ur warlord fights, can make a single attack instead of normal cc attack. Make a single hit roll, if successful, target suffers D3MW.
6. Reroll hits of 1 for friendly Khorne Daemon units that charged this turn and are within 8" of your Warlord when they fight ( )

Tzeentch

1. Add 1 to result of 1st psychic test taken by your warlord.
2. reduce all dmg by 1 (min1 to warlord)
3. reroll failed morale test for friendly tz daemons within 9 of warlord.
4. add 6" to range of first psychic power casted by warlord
5. roll d6, 2+ ignore perils of warp.
6. Reroll wounds rolls of 1 by tzeentch daemons for shooting phase, within 9" of warlord.

Nurgle
1. +1 Wound
2. Each time warlord lose Wound in fight phase. 4+ , unit that caused that wound to the warlord , suffers a MW.
3. Your opponent must subtract -1 from all hit roll that target warlord if attacking unit within 7"
4. Add 1 to all wound roll made by warlord in the fight phase unless target vehicle.
5. Warlord got a 4+ save.
6. Roll a dice for each enemy within 1" of warlord at start of your turn. On a 4+, that unit suffers a MW.

No Slaanesh warlord traits? Seems odd.
Is it a 4+ invul save or a 4+ armor save?

**zamerion**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

No Slaanesh warlord traits? Seems odd.
Is it a 4+ invul save or a 4+ armor save?

he has already said

**CthuluIsSpy**

zamerion wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:

No Slaanesh warlord traits? Seems odd.
Is it a 4+ invul save or a 4+ armor save?

he has already said

Ah right, so it is armor. Could be useful.
Did I miss the thing on slaanesh warlord traits?

**Latro_**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
zamerion wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:

No Slaanesh warlord traits? Seems odd.
Is it a 4+ invul save or a 4+ armor save?

he has already said

Ah right, so it is armor. Could be useful.
Did I miss the thing on slaanesh warlord traits?

xxhikaru123 wrote:
Slaanesh

1. 3" To M
2. Reroll fail hit and wound against Char.
3. If warlord charges, add D3 to Attacks until end of ensuing fight phases. (roll D3 after charge)
4. Each time you make a wound roll of 6+ in fight phase. Suffers an additional MW.
5. Add 1 to warlord Attack characteristics.
6. Enemy model -1 attack (min 1) within 6" of your warlord. Does not affect vehicles.

I like 6, but very specific and dependent on opposing army.

**ThePie**

Since slimux is an AoS model that gets rules for 40k, does the Gaunt Summoner gain 40k rules as well?

**Mr Morden**

ThePie wrote:
Since slimux is an AoS model that gets rules for 40k, does the Gaunt Summoner gain 40k rules as well?

Well they are Daemons so they should be fine to crossover.

**DJ3**

Gaunt Summoners are actually mortals in AoS--they have the Daemon keyword because they're riding Discs, same as how CSM models get Daemon on a mount.

Edit: actually it looks like their fluff is super conflicting, they have the Mortal keyword and are referred to as Sorcerers who summon Daemons in some places, and directly as Daemons in others.

**Klor**

DJ3 wrote:
Gaunt Summoners are actually mortals in AoS--they have the Daemon keyword because they're riding Discs, same as how CSM models get Daemon on a mount.

You know, it didn't dawn on me until just now as to why they removed all of those from the csm codex (ignoring the whole we don't have models for them aspect). They didn't want chaos lords gaining the bonuses of the daemons because of them having the daemon keyword. Makes sense. It sucks because I really liked my CL on a Juggernaught, but it is what it is.

**Manfred von Drakken**

Klor wrote:
DJ3 wrote:
Gaunt Summoners are actually mortals in AoS--they have the Daemon keyword because they're riding Discs, same as how CSM models get Daemon on a mount.

You know, it didn't dawn on me until just now as to why they removed all of those from the csm codex (ignoring the whole we don't have models for them aspect). They didn't want chaos lords gaining the bonuses of the daemons because of them having the daemon keyword. Makes sense. It sucks because I really liked my CL on a Juggernaught, but it is what it is.

You know you can still use them, right? They've said quite clearly that the Index entries for units that didn't make the codex are still fully valid. So, rock that Lord on Juggernaut!

**Cephalobeard**

There's generic WT's as well, yeah?

Excited to see what those do.

**Klor**

Manfred von Drakken wrote:
Klor wrote:
DJ3 wrote:
Gaunt Summoners are actually mortals in AoS--they have the Daemon keyword because they're riding Discs, same as how CSM models get Daemon on a mount.

You know, it didn't dawn on me until just now as to why they removed all of those from the csm codex (ignoring the whole we don't have models for them aspect). They didn't want chaos lords gaining the bonuses of the daemons because of them having the daemon keyword. Makes sense. It sucks because I really liked my CL on a Juggernaught, but it is what it is.

You know you can still use them, right? They've said quite clearly that the Index entries for units that didn't make the codex are still fully valid. So, rock that Lord on Juggernaut!

They did, but they do not reflect any changes between the Codex and the Index. IIRC, they lowered the cost of the chaos lords between the two. It would be awesome if they would FAQ or Chapter Approved the changes between the two.

**andysonic1**

Well the JuggerLord and the others now benefit from Locus, Stratagems, and other auras from the Deamon Codex, just like Possessed did before the Deamon Codex (and after). I'm playing with the idea of an Axe of Blind Furry JuggerLord beside a JuggerHerald behind Flesh Hounds moving up the board. That's about 1/4th of your 2k army and will do a lot of damage to whatever it gets to.

**Bulldogging**

Huh, never noticed that Ahriman(and regular 1ksons) sorcs on discs are daemons until now. That's interesting.

**Klor**

andysonic1 wrote:
Well the JuggerLord and the others now benefit from Locus, Stratagems, and other auras from the Deamon Codex, just like Possessed did before the Deamon Codex (and after). I'm playing with the idea of an Axe of Blind Furry JuggerLord beside a JuggerHerald behind Flesh Hounds moving up the board. That's about 1/4th of your 2k army and will do a lot of damage to whatever it gets to.

Assuming that this isn't worded exactly what they want it to do...

When taking a pure Daemons of Chaos detachment, you’ll be rewarded with Warlord Traits, Stratagems, psychic powers, scoring priority on your Troops choices and so on.

"Excitingly, unlike previous editions, these Loci affect every single Daemon unit in your detachment,"

If it is worded the way it truly works, then you wouldn't be able to take a chaos lord on a juggernaught in the same detachment as chaos daemons to have it be affected by the Loci :(

Guess we will see when the Codex is released!

**terry**

Klor wrote:
andysonic1 wrote:
Well the JuggerLord and the others now benefit from Locus, Stratagems, and other auras from the Deamon Codex, just like Possessed did before the Deamon Codex (and after). I'm playing with the idea of an Axe of Blind Furry JuggerLord beside a JuggerHerald behind Flesh Hounds moving up the board. That's about 1/4th of your 2k army and will do a lot of damage to whatever it gets to.

Assuming that this isn't worded exactly what they want it to do...

When taking a pure Daemons of Chaos detachment, you’ll be rewarded with Warlord Traits, Stratagems, psychic powers, scoring priority on your Troops choices and so on.

"Excitingly, unlike previous editions, these Loci affect every single Daemon unit in your detachment,"

If it is worded the way it truly works, then you wouldn't be able to take a chaos lord on a juggernaught in the same detachment as chaos daemons to have it be affected by the Loci :(

Guess we will see when the Codex is released!

unless the juggerlord qualifies as daemon of chaos for the detachment

**Klor**

terry wrote:
Klor wrote:
andysonic1 wrote:
Well the JuggerLord and the others now benefit from Locus, Stratagems, and other auras from the Deamon Codex, just like Possessed did before the Deamon Codex (and after). I'm playing with the idea of an Axe of Blind Furry JuggerLord beside a JuggerHerald behind Flesh Hounds moving up the board. That's about 1/4th of your 2k army and will do a lot of damage to whatever it gets to.

Assuming that this isn't worded exactly what they want it to do...

When taking a pure Daemons of Chaos detachment, you’ll be rewarded with Warlord Traits, Stratagems, psychic powers, scoring priority on your Troops choices and so on.

"Excitingly, unlike previous editions, these Loci affect every single Daemon unit in your detachment,"

If it is worded the way it truly works, then you wouldn't be able to take a chaos lord on a juggernaught in the same detachment as chaos daemons to have it be affected by the Loci :(

Guess we will see when the Codex is released!

unless the juggerlord qualifies as daemon of chaos for the detachment

The capital lettering of "Daemons of Chaos" leads me to believe it is much like the Tyranid / Genestealer Cult FAQ. "Daemons of Chaos" is probably short hand for anything in the daemons codex.

**combatcotton**

Just because they affect every unit in a detachment does not mean it does not affect a unit in another detachment.

What if you had, say two pure khorne demon detachments? The locis should affect the units of the other. Anything else would be totally dumb. And would have no precedent in any codex so far.

So I am certain that if you have a pure demon detachment that it will be possible to have a demon marine in another detachment and still affected by those loci.
Same should be true for FW models and the index anyway so they cannot constrict this to models from the dex.

It is possible, that you cannot put a juggerlord into a demon detachment and have it work out. This I could see them exclude somehow. Albeit very unlikely and convoluted to word properly.

**Kanluwen**

terry wrote:
Klor wrote:
andysonic1 wrote:
Well the JuggerLord and the others now benefit from Locus, Stratagems, and other auras from the Deamon Codex, just like Possessed did before the Deamon Codex (and after). I'm playing with the idea of an Axe of Blind Furry JuggerLord beside a JuggerHerald behind Flesh Hounds moving up the board. That's about 1/4th of your 2k army and will do a lot of damage to whatever it gets to.

Assuming that this isn't worded exactly what they want it to do...

When taking a pure Daemons of Chaos detachment, you’ll be rewarded with Warlord Traits, Stratagems, psychic powers, scoring priority on your Troops choices and so on.

"Excitingly, unlike previous editions, these Loci affect every single Daemon unit in your detachment,"

If it is worded the way it truly works, then you wouldn't be able to take a chaos lord on a juggernaught in the same detachment as chaos daemons to have it be affected by the Loci :(

Guess we will see when the Codex is released!

unless the juggerlord qualifies as daemon of chaos for the detachment

Why would it?

Just because it has the Daemon keyword does not make the unit a Daemon Codex unit.
Discs and Juggerlords have the "Daemon" keyword because their mounts are Daemonic Mounts.

**andysonic1**

I was not implying you could put them in the same detachment guys. You keep them in separate detachments and they effect one another. Look at the Directors Commentary regarding Possessed and Heralds:

Q: What is the difference between a keyword and a Faction keyword?

A: The only real difference is that Faction keywords are used when building an army; when Battle-forging an army, for instance, you will often only be able to include units in the same detachment if they share the same Faction keyword. Also, if you are playing a matched play game, you will need to have an Army Faction – this is a Faction keyword that is shared by all of the units in your entire army (with the exception of those that are Unaligned). Once the battle has begun, there is no functional difference between a keyword and a Faction keyword.For example, when creating a Battle-forged army for matched play, I take two Patrol Detachments; the first contains only units with the Heretic Astartes Faction keyword, and the second contains only units with theDaemonFaction keyword. My Army Faction is ‘Chaos’ because this is a Faction keyword every unit in the entire army shares.Once the battle has begun, the distinction between keywords and Faction keywords no longer has any effect – both are used to interact with abilities identically. Imagine, then, that the Heretic AstartesDetachment contains a unit of Possessed (which does not have the DaemonFaction keyword, but does have the Daemon keyword), and I choose for them to replace their <Mark of Chaos> keyword withKhorne. If the DaemonDetachment contained a Herald of Khorne, his ability to ‘add 1 to the Strength characteristic of allKhorne Daemons’ would also apply to the unit of Possessed, as they have both theKhorneandDaemonkeywords.

So JuggerLords and other CSM with Deamon and Khorne or what have you will benefit.

**Mr Morden**

DJ3 wrote:
Gaunt Summoners are actually mortals in AoS--they have the Daemon keyword because they're riding Discs, same as how CSM models get Daemon on a mount.

Edit: actually it looks like their fluff is super conflicting, they have the Mortal keyword and are referred to as Sorcerers who summon Daemons in some places, and directly as Daemons in others.

Yeah it can be a little contradictory - I used to think the same that its because they have a Disc but then some material refers to them as actual Daemons.

**mrhappyface**

Klor wrote:
terry wrote:
Klor wrote:
andysonic1 wrote:
Well the JuggerLord and the others now benefit from Locus, Stratagems, and other auras from the Deamon Codex, just like Possessed did before the Deamon Codex (and after). I'm playing with the idea of an Axe of Blind Furry JuggerLord beside a JuggerHerald behind Flesh Hounds moving up the board. That's about 1/4th of your 2k army and will do a lot of damage to whatever it gets to.

Assuming that this isn't worded exactly what they want it to do...

When taking a pure Daemons of Chaos detachment, you’ll be rewarded with Warlord Traits, Stratagems, psychic powers, scoring priority on your Troops choices and so on.

"Excitingly, unlike previous editions, these Loci affect every single Daemon unit in your detachment,"

If it is worded the way it truly works, then you wouldn't be able to take a chaos lord on a juggernaught in the same detachment as chaos daemons to have it be affected by the Loci :(

Guess we will see when the Codex is released!

unless the juggerlord qualifies as daemon of chaos for the detachment

The capital lettering of "Daemons of Chaos" leads me to believe it is much like the Tyranid / Genestealer Cult FAQ. "Daemons of Chaos" is probably short hand for anything in the daemons codex.

But what about Index Daemon units that weren't carried forward into the codex?

**DCannon4Life**

DJ3 wrote:
xxhikaru123 wrote:
Start of a phase til end of the the phase

That puts it between decent and great. Thanks for the clarification.

So, 'good'? /wink

**lindsay40k**

Huh. I have no idea how to make this Locus business work, if it’s based on detachments. That’ll be a bookkeeping nightmare in big games.

You’re going to want a bunch of CP for a chunky Deep Strike appearance. This suggests to me that monolatric Battalions, with a medium/huge blob of troops to drop in, two small ones to try their best, then one or two other units.

Nurglings make that loadout excellent, I suspect that’ll be the way to take Beasts.

Tzeentch will be able to get a Vanguard together pretty well. Still runs on a CP deficit if you want to drop in Flamers.

Slaaneshi chariots enable an ok Spearhead, I guess. Cannons of Khorne seem fairly viable. Shame a DP isn’t HS any more - that would really help fill it out.

Are Furies still FA? If so, most Outriders will be doable. What we need is a generic unit in each category, that can fill out a monolatrist Detachment without it being samey. We’ll probably see some Plague Drone Outriders, simply because of their Start Collecting being boxed with Nurglings.

**Klor**

lindsay40k wrote:
Huh. I have no idea how to make this Locus business work, if it’s based on detachments. That’ll be a bookkeeping nightmare in big games.

You’re going to want a bunch of CP for a chunky Deep Strike appearance. This suggests to me that monolatric Battalions, with a medium/huge blob of troops to drop in, two small ones to try their best, then one or two other units.

Nurglings make that loadout excellent, I suspect that’ll be the way to take Beasts.

Tzeentch will be able to get a Vanguard together pretty well. Still runs on a CP deficit if you want to drop in Flamers.

Slaaneshi chariots enable an ok Spearhead, I guess. Cannons of Khorne seem fairly viable. Shame a DP isn’t HS any more - that would really help fill it out.

Are Furies still FA? If so, most Outriders will be doable. What we need is a generic unit in each category, that can fill out a monolatrist Detachment without it being samey. We’ll probably see some Plague Drone Outriders, simply because of their Start Collecting being boxed with Nurglings.

I've been toying with a few loadouts. You can get 10CP in a nearly full Khorne army (I had to run a Battalion with 3 min squads of Nurglings). It included Skarbrand, 70 bloodletters (broke down into 3 different squads), a BT, and a few different heralds of Khorne (foot, juggernaught, and blood throne). I ended it with 3 skull cannons. This is assuming the points (other than the skull cannon) are the same. It sits right under 2000 pts. Between the nurglings, the blood throne, and the skull cannons, it makes sure 50% of the army is on the table while allowing the rest to deepstrike. Should be quite interesting! It will come down to how the whole Loci thing works. The 3 squads of Nurglings may throw a wrench in it :(

**andysonic1**

The Detachment only activates the Locus of the mono-god for that Detachment. So if you toss Nurglings in one of the detachments, that Detachment cannot have the Locus on its characters, however it can still benefit from the Locus from other Detachments that have it. It's Chapter Tactics for Deamons, it isn't rocket science.

**Boss Salvage**

Nurglings help make Nurgle Battalions super cheap to build, just 320 points for 3 CP + 2x Heralds + 3x 3 Nurgs. Not a useless CP generator either.

Are there really no dedicated Nurgle Elites or Heavies?? It's all HQ, Troops and (bizarrely) Fast Attak?

- Salvage

EDIT: Pseudo-ninja'd, also not mindblowing revelation

**zamerion**

Boss Salvage wrote:

Are there really no dedicated Nurgle Elites or Heavies?? It's all HQ, Troops and (bizarrely) Fast Attak?-

Beast of nurgle are elite. And maybe some of the new heralds too.

Problem are heavies :(