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 Pacific wrote:
(I am only half joking here as I'm enjoying the book, even though The End and the Death keeps using words that my ebook tells me aren't in the dictionary, and there is a certain amount of 'good will' still remaining as ADB's book was so well written).

Which book are you referencing here?

Finished Leviathan. Avoid. Really dull one. The only interesting part was that it put end to 4chan rumours about incoming Harbinger miniature .

 schoon wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
(I am only half joking here as I'm enjoying the book, even though The End and the Death keeps using words that my ebook tells me aren't in the dictionary, and there is a certain amount of 'good will' still remaining as ADB's book was so well written).

Which book are you referencing here?

Echoes of Eternity (ADB's book, the release before The End and The Death)

Without spoilers, did enough actually happen in Echoes of Eternity to make it compelling? I skipped it, but maybe I should reconsider?

 Talking Banana wrote:
Without spoilers, did enough actually happen in Echoes of Eternity to make it compelling? I skipped it, but maybe I should reconsider?

It was a boringness incarnate with a single exception of Lothara's story which was fun. IMO, only Gav Thorpe's First Wall was worse read in the Siege series than Echoes but even then only marginally. The only actually important things that could be not mentioned in other publications were

I listen to the Siege books when generally driving long distances. Or did. I've stopped. They legit are so boring outside of 50pgs here or there (as Shadowwalker says above).

This last one when I literally skipped 10 minutes of audio when they just kept "begetting" endlessly really drove it home.

That said I really liked the Lion book and because of how it handled the lion I've gone back and am listening to the plague wars trilogy and I'm genuinely enjoying the Gulliman parts which I didn't expect.

 Pacific wrote:
Echoes of Eternity (ADB's book, the release before The End and The Death)

Thanks!

 Talking Banana wrote:
Without spoilers, did enough actually happen in Echoes of Eternity to make it compelling? I skipped it, but maybe I should reconsider?

I guess YMMV as Shadow Walker has the opposite reaction to me. I found, amongst the whole series (which feels like a 20,000 page extension of that episode of Breaking Bad which just focused on the fly buzzing about) I've probably enjoyed Echoes of Eternity the most. But just based on how well ADB writes.

Yeah I loved Echoes of Eternity. It’s in a whole different league to The First Wall (and the Lost and the Damned) in my opinion. I read it in one day.

Im curious about the realmslayer novelization. Wasn’t it an audio drama? So it was basically all narration and characters had to narrate every little thing they saw and did? Did they have to write a book around that?

That's very doable. I'm very tempted by it, but I figure that the limited edition will not only be really expensive but will also sell out super fast. Will just have to wait for the regular edition.


They were good audio dramas and its a shame we've not had another. As books they might even reveal a few twists and turns and details that don't appear in the audio drama.

I don’t think the blurb necessarily means there’s more.
I’d put it more that they don’t want to write too much on there like any book.

It’s not gonna say “Horus and Sanguinius fight, but after he kills him then the emperor comes in”

Bear in mind a lot of people reading these haven’t actually read the story lore wise like we have.
They may not know.
You don’t write the synopsis on the back of the book.

Danny76 wrote:
I don’t think the blurb necessarily means there’s more.
I’d put it more that they don’t want to write too much on there like any book.

It’s not gonna say “Horus and Sanguinius fight, but after he kills him then the emperor comes in”

Bear in mind a lot of people reading these haven’t actually read the story lore wise like we have.
They may not know.
You don’t write the synopsis on the back of the book.

Ill bet you a Geedubimited Edition of this 2nd Volume that we go to a third.


The Scooby Gang and Cerberus have to have an adventure to be in the right place for the finale.

A wild Abaddon appears!

Sad Dorn needs to meme it up where-ever he his.

Vulkan needs to observe Malcadors suffering while holding the throne room.

More 'heroes' die to be forgotten.

Then there's the Chemical Ali Perpetual sub sub sub plot - now with even more Custode fallibility!

And many more.

Oh yeah.. The Emperor.

Deffo 3 volumes (at least)....

Or they'll pack all this in and it'll be a rush to 'I was there the day The Emperor slew Horus'

And of course it'll have to end with a teaser for whatever's going on in the 41st Millennium regarding the Bequin trilogy.

Danny76 wrote:
I don’t think the blurb necessarily means there’s more.
I’d put it more that they don’t want to write too much on there like any book.

It’s not gonna say “Horus and Sanguinius fight, but after he kills him then the emperor comes in”

Bear in mind a lot of people reading these haven’t actually read the story lore wise like we have.
They may not know.
You don’t write the synopsis on the back of the book.

I admire your optimism, but I can't share it. I think this will be a trilogy. There may even be a "Horus Heresy: The Aftermath" coda book (please let it not be books!) after the trilogy ends, or a "Legacies of the Horus Heresy" collection of short stories that seed plot lines that continue into 40K, or whatever other filler GW thinks will sell copies. Since declaring "This is it! The final book of the Horus Heresy!" would definitely sell more copies, they'd be insane to keep that quiet or leave it ambiguous.

It's the perennial problem of capitalism-driven pop culture stories. Capitalism gives these stories life, and when they don't turn a profit fast enough, capitalism often cuts them short. But too much success brings the opposite problem: the profit drive can also inflate, pad, and stretch out a successful franchise storyline beyond its natural lifespan, until it's just a pale shadow of what it once was. As far as I know the Simpsons is still being made, but it ran out of worthwhile stories to tell many years ago.

If you're the sole author and owner of a property, you can decide to put art before profit and end a series whenever you feel the story's been told. But GW is a corporation, and for them, profit > art. The result has been a very long series with some memorable novels and a whole lot of filler. It's obviously working for them; why would they change now and release 2 books when they can get away with 3?

 Talking Banana wrote:

Danny76 wrote:
I don’t think the blurb necessarily means there’s more.
I’d put it more that they don’t want to write too much on there like any book.

It’s not gonna say “Horus and Sanguinius fight, but after he kills him then the emperor comes in”

Bear in mind a lot of people reading these haven’t actually read the story lore wise like we have.
They may not know.
You don’t write the synopsis on the back of the book.

I admire your optimism, but I can't share it. I think this will be a trilogy. There may even be a "Horus Heresy: The Aftermath" coda book (please let it not be books!) after the trilogy ends, or a "Legacies of the Horus Heresy" collection of short stories that seed plot lines that continue into 40K, or whatever other filler GW thinks will sell copies. Since declaring "This is it! The final book of the Horus Heresy!" would definitely sell more copies, they'd be insane to keep that quiet or leave it ambiguous.

It's the perennial problem of capitalism-driven pop culture stories. Capitalism gives these stories life, and when they don't turn a profit fast enough, capitalism often cuts them short. But too much success brings the opposite problem: the profit drive can also inflate, pad, and stretch out a successful franchise storyline beyond its natural lifespan, until it's just a pale shadow of what it once was. As far as I know the Simpsons is still being made, but it ran out of worthwhile stories to tell many years ago.

If you're the sole author and owner of a property, you can decide to put art before profit and end a series whenever you feel the story's been told. But GW is a corporation, and for them, profit > art. The result has been a very long series with some memorable novels and a whole lot of filler. It's obviously working for them; why would they change now and release 2 books when they can get away with 3?

We do already know that there are major plot points that people want to actually see expanded (e.g. the conclusion to the martian civil war, the Iron Cage, the departure/'death'/spiriting away of the loyalist Primarchs, the traitor Primarchs getting settled in the Eye), so i take it as a given that some sort of 'The Scouring' series with at least a dozen volumes will be announced on short order. The Heresy series is a huge moneymaker, there needs to be something to replace it.

The replacement is intended to be the Dawn of Fire stuff. The problem is that it's not got the hook the Heresy had. Sure it's charting undiscovered waters but they're modern 40k waters which aren't as interesting as reading what is essentially a Greek tragedy but Warhammer.

Pre-orders https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/01/black-library-pre-orders-tales-of-aelven-and-duardin-heroism/

It came from French Amazon! - apparently there's a new book coming in October, that pits fan-favourites Cawl and Fabius Bile against each other.

French title is 'Génosire', which might translate to 'Genesire' but also 'Genelord' (which would match the Fabius book 'Clonelord').

The synopsis:

Dans l'espoir de domestiquer la Grande Faille qui divise la galaxie en deux, Belisarius Cawl invite des représentants de tout l'Imperium sur le monde artificiel de Pontus Avernes. Assuré de les convaincre de son génie, il doit toutefois solliciter leur aide pour percer les secrets du Réseau de Pylônes - de formidables structures construites par une ancienne race qui, il en est convaincu, peuvent contrer les effets du warp.
Mais parmi les participants se trouve un invité indésirable : Fabius Bile lui-même. Le Primogénitor, lui, n'a que faire de la validation de son génie. La poursuite de ses objectifs va entraîner une confrontation épique entre les plus grands esprits scientifiques de la galaxie. Un seul en sortira victorieux.

https://www.amazon.fr/dp/1804073725?ref_=cm_sw_r_cp_ud_dp_BQET2ZN4KV2255TWJD4Q

I spare you Valrak's translation, and substitue my own:

Hoping to tame the Great Rift that cleaves the galaxy in two, Belisarius Cawl invites representatives of all of the Imperium to the artificial world of Pontus Avernes. Sure to convince them of his genius, he nonetheless needs to solicit their aid in piercing the secrets of the Pylon Network - formidabel structures built by an ancient ract that, he is convinced, are able to counter the effects of the warp. But among the participants there is an univited guest - Fabius Bile himself. The Primogenitor, who needs no validation of his genius. The pursuit of his goals will lead to an epic confrontation of the greatest scientific minds of the galaxy. Only one will remain victorious.

Fun fact: Avernus is a volcanic crater in Italy that was said to be a portal to the underworld. Pontus/Pontos was an antique state in Anatolia/Asia minor.

It sounds like this will be Pylon-focused, but just putting Cawl and Fabius in the same room sounds like an opening to introduce Primaris Chaos Marines. The only current Chaos marine models I own are Rubric Marines, which I've heard are already roughly Primaris-sized, but if the other Chaos Marine factions are smaller, and GW's ultimate plan is to force everyone to invest in their new, up-scaled models, then I'd guess Primaris Chaos Marines are probably inevitable. And there's no one better positioned in the lore than Fabius to duplicate Cawl's innovations.

If not Primaris Chaos Space Marines, then at least Bile would love to meet the person who not only made the Primaris, but also got to play with the untainted geneseed of all twenty Primarchs, so he can finally cure himself, if he's still suffering from the curse of the Third Legion that is.

 BrookM wrote:
If not Primaris Chaos Space Marines, then at least Bile would love to meet the person who not only made the Primaris, but also got to play with the untainted geneseed of all twenty Primarchs, so he can finally cure himself, if he's still suffering from the curse of the Third Legion that is.

I think 'Chaos Primaris' would be lame, and at least in the books Bile thinks the same - he has his 'New Men', specifically intended to be able to reproduce and eventually become the dominant species in the galaxy (which Marines were again, specifically, set up not to be able to, ever), and his stance on Primaris is 'Lol of course i could, but why should i?'

Don't count on anything from the Bile series making an appearance. The concepts in that will likely never be picked up by another author or if they are it will be a long time from now.

 BrookM wrote:
If not Primaris Chaos Space Marines, then at least Bile would love to meet the person who not only made the Primaris, but also got to play with the untainted geneseed of all twenty Primarchs, so he can finally cure himself, if he's still suffering from the curse of the Third Legion that is.

Yes, he is still suffering. In fact, degeneration is accelerating, which makes each clone body dying sooner. He would be very interested in the untainted geneseed data for sure.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/05/genefather-fabius-bile-is-back-to-test-his-wits-against-the-biggest-brains-in-the-galaxy/

 Gert wrote:
Don't count on anything from the Bile series making an appearance. The concepts in that will likely never be picked up by another author or if they are it will be a long time from now.

All that stuff was purposefully sealed off in a neat little box, even resetting Buile to factory specifications so that it could be ignored if necessary. "Not my Bile!" will be a warcry for decades to come in regard to his future appearances.

I'm now about 1/3 of the way through The King of the Spoil, and it's a solid read thus far.

Complex, engaging characters, and a plot that's keeping me turning the pages...

That's great to hear, I've not had a chance to open it yet but it's a the front of my list now.

Pre-orders https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/08/black-library-pre-orders-stories-of-duty-duplicity-and-death-defying-inquisitors/

Oh look, another limited (1750) edition no normal person will be able to access, with collectible stuff the plebes can admire from a distance: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/11/the-epic-fall-of-cadia-mega-edition-is-packed-with-incredible-artefacts/