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 Nevelon wrote:
None of the vote options really fit my mood.

I don’t love it, but wish they would have been in an ensemble codex (like agents of the Imperium)
But I don’t hate or resent it.

IMHO the custodes shouldn’t be a full on army. I’m fine with a squad or two being attached to other armies, but this isn’t 30k here. At least they are giving them a decent spread of units to fill their army. I strongly dislike the old one-unit* codexes (imperial knights, scions, etc) If you don’t have something for every FOC slot, you probably don’t need your own book.

So I don’t think it needs to exist, but it looks like they did a decent job on it, and I’m sure lots of people will like it. Minis look nice.

Just not my cup of tea.

Pretty much this. Just seems unnecessary and a bit boring tbh. Mentally filing them with Primaris Marines and returning Primarchs under "bad for the lore; no real interest in playing with or against them."

Personally, I'd have left them in 30K where I think they belong, but it's becoming quite apparent that GW's idea of the direction 40K should go in and mine are pretty far apart these days, so I'll just ignore them and get on with painting/playing with my Orks, Guard and Proper Marines.

Tyel wrote:
SoB are a possible exception, but only because I assume they would (if they ever get a release) get a full re-imagining. Presumably similar iconography etc, but hopefully it would be a step beyond "what was metal from 2000 is now plastic in 2020". New poses, new units, new models. This might well divide obsessives - but it would be something.

SOB are a meme at this point. The reason their models languish is because they weren't popular when they were originally released. GW have not invested in them for this reason, they didn't sell then and they (obviously) don't sell now. I very much doubt there would be a mass market for SOB even if the entire line was re-imagined, perhaps a few people that haven't had a chance to buy them would commit but the majority of people in the market who want Sisters, bizarrely, have them already. I might be wrong, this is only my opinion of course, but I would put money on the market for "Bitches with Bolters" being smaller than say, futuristic Elves, or Orks, or Superhuman Soldiers in massive pauldrons. I get the distinct people that so many people are vocal about them just to join in the fun rather than an actual want or need.

BrianDavion wrote:
I'm all for it. People expecting tons of new models for old armies need to temper their expectations. I got a hunch that most old armies will be released without much of new units. and that we can expect to see newer armies pushed to the forefront.

much like with AOS

I think you're probably right on this front, much as I wouldn't particularly care for it.

Dudeface wrote:

 Rolsheen wrote:
So much joy for two reasons
1. Beautiful new models
2. Xenos whiners heads exploding

Without those xenos players you're basically just playing horus heresy, they deserve as much attention as other factions do.

As much as people keep saying marines sell lets make more marines, they need to update the other factions eventually, which may or may not lead to a poorer financial streak. If they have something awesome lined up for other factions on release, great, otherwise I honestly think new aspect warriors, new necrons warriors, new gaunts, new kroot etc. Would all blow custodes sales out the water. Moreover it's not worth garnering the negative feelsbads in the community.

This. I don't understand the people complaining about whining xenos player or taking schadenfreude from it. Unless you want to play power armour vs power armour all the time in what will result in basically the same game every time then YOU should be annoyed about the amount of super awesome guys in big armour. It's a detriment to the game that it has so many because it means less variety in opponents for YOU. I can't believe that people are so blind to this fact.

While I'm feel for those whose armies have been pushed back for this, personally I love it as I've been thinking about starting some Custodes but felt that the current offering was a bit small, with only one specific unit as well as the ugly Calth Dreadnought and the standard Land Raider. These new models look fantastic.

 Nazrak wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I'm all for it. People expecting tons of new models for old armies need to temper their expectations. I got a hunch that most old armies will be released without much of new units. and that we can expect to see newer armies pushed to the forefront.

much like with AOS

I think you're probably right on this front, much as I wouldn't particularly care for it.

The problem with this idea is that it ignores that many of the "old armies" that get released "without much of new units" actually saw significant overhauls and/or unit additions with their own army books not long before the End Times.

Dark Elves, for example, replaced their elderly Warriors, Dark Riders, and Witch Elves...not to mention the War Hydra and Cold One Chariot.

People are also downplaying the redundancy by claiming we got "another full army"...but it looks like GW is adding Custodes jetbikes, terminators, and HQ and calling it a full codex (i.e. they will have variants of the same unit in each force org slot). Contrast this to the number of choices in say Eldar or even space marines. Heck, at least GK have dreadknights.

Would a more fleshed out custodes army be cool? Yeah, maybe, but doing it before you update armies that people have had for 15 years is kind of insulting. Putting orks or dark eldar back into the meta with a codex is also better for the game as a whole, and the sooner you release a codex the sooner you can release FAQs, tweak balance issues, etc. And on top of that...their financials are looking just fine. They don't need to release an army no one has right now to sell more models at the cost of player good will.

 greyknight12 wrote:
People are also downplaying the redundancy by claiming we got "another full army"...but it looks like GW is adding Custodes jetbikes, terminators, and HQ and calling it a full codex (i.e. they will have variants of the same unit in each force org slot). Contrast this to the number of choices in say Eldar or even space marines. Heck, at least GK have dreadknights.

Would a more fleshed out custodes army be cool? Yeah, maybe, but doing it before you update armies that people have had for 15 years is kind of insulting. Putting orks or dark eldar back into the meta with a codex is also better for the game as a whole, and the sooner you release a codex the sooner you can release FAQs, tweak balance issues, etc. And on top of that...their financials are looking just fine. They don't need to release an army no one has right now to sell more models at the cost of player good will.

The amount of 'dudes in power-armour' style armies we have right is already at the point of redundancy.

Darsath wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:
People are also downplaying the redundancy by claiming we got "another full army"...but it looks like GW is adding Custodes jetbikes, terminators, and HQ and calling it a full codex (i.e. they will have variants of the same unit in each force org slot). Contrast this to the number of choices in say Eldar or even space marines. Heck, at least GK have dreadknights.

Would a more fleshed out custodes army be cool? Yeah, maybe, but doing it before you update armies that people have had for 15 years is kind of insulting. Putting orks or dark eldar back into the meta with a codex is also better for the game as a whole, and the sooner you release a codex the sooner you can release FAQs, tweak balance issues, etc. And on top of that...their financials are looking just fine. They don't need to release an army no one has right now to sell more models at the cost of player good will.

The amount of 'dudes in power-armour' style armies we have right is already at the point of redundancy.

NAH! You need 1 Power Armor army per Xeno and then you need 1 more so they are winning!

You then another PA army for every non PA army that is on thé Imperium side, as well, to compensate for the extra lack of PA

I know at least one guy at my club loves 'em, so, I know I'll see em. Which is fine, but just having even biggerer betterer marines is pretty tiresome. Thankfully the models tend to look better than the Grey Knight ones.

As a stand alone force I don't expect it to perform very well. I feel like it's mostly a decorative force than an actual army.

Custodes only have two color options, and should be reserved for terra, or near terra. The models look cool, but the narrative and hobby side are very limited. if it was a new army that made more sense people may have been more receptive.

It would be nicer if they filled currently lacking armies like Skittari, Cult Mechanicus, Dark Eldar, and Harlequins.
Also IG getting modern looking infantry, update armies not in plastic

It's much worse on the AoS side. Very little since 8th, and death and destruction are both in very poor shape. My start collecting Malignants box isn't even battleforged! Meanwhile Stormcast have at least 15 HQs.

orkychaos wrote:
Ok. I get everyone has a right to feel the way they do but come on people. Do you really think GW just pulled this out of their hat yesterday? Their development cycle is at least a year long. So this didn’t keep resources from other stuff because these have probably been in production at the plant for 6 months, possibly longer. Also, backing this up, several people from the open day have stated that they were told that these have been ready since early last year. Also, to show the trend, we waited almost a year from the first official pictures of death guard to when those models went up for sale. Relax, they didn’t shove anything out of the way for this release.

It isn't a matter of 'yesterday' or short term plans. It's a matter of opportunity cost- even if they were done a year ago, that took resources that could have been applied to something else. Doing this, or primaris marines or chapter specific primaris upgrade sprues or whatever means that existing ranges continue to be neglected. Considering how few models GW are making these days, it's a pretty big deal. Maybe eldar aspect warriors won't get redone until a new codex in 2020, or orks will stay without fast attack vehicles. You can find things in tau, necrons or whatever army you care about. The cost for custodes is something there didn't/won't happen.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Tyel wrote:
SoB are a possible exception, but only because I assume they would (if they ever get a release) get a full re-imagining. Presumably similar iconography etc, but hopefully it would be a step beyond "what was metal from 2000 is now plastic in 2020". New poses, new units, new models. This might well divide obsessives - but it would be something.

SOB are a meme at this point. The reason their models languish is because they weren't popular when they were originally released. GW have not invested in them for this reason, they didn't sell then and they (obviously) don't sell now. I very much doubt there would be a mass market for SOB even if the entire line was re-imagined, perhaps a few people that haven't had a chance to buy them would commit but the majority of people in the market who want Sisters, bizarrely, have them already. I might be wrong, this is only my opinion of course, but I would put money on the market for "Bitches with Bolters" being smaller than say, futuristic Elves, or Orks, or Superhuman Soldiers in massive pauldrons. I get the distinct people that so many people are vocal about them just to join in the fun rather than an actual want or need.

Not sure this is true - its difficult to know quite what happened twenty years ago, but I am not convinced. I think they sold reasonably well. Sister's players were not an alien experience.
But they were expensive even back then.

If the models look good (and they would) and they were reasonably priced and they have good rules - they will sell.

The problem you get into this weird cycle. "We only make new Marines, so people only buy new Marines, so people must just want new Marines."

I mean going back to 1997 I'd feel fairly confident in saying that the second most popular 40k faction was Orks. Possibly by a reasonable distance.
But for some reason all the support for Orks started to leave the game. GW decided they should "play like this" - crap shooting, mob close combat (which often wasn't great), expensive, overcosted toys. There was a release of kits in the 2000s, then a lot of nothing. The 4th edition codex would run on through 5th and 6th edition, largely being crap. Then they got a new codex in 7th, just in time to be codex creeped into oblivion.

Bizarrely, despite only having an index, Orks are probably the most competitive they have been for years (despite a huge number of terrible unit choices).

But is it any surprise that factions GW leaves to die are not popular with the players? Old models, crap rules? You have to be pretty committed to go for it.

Tyel wrote:
Not sure this is true - its difficult to know quite what happened twenty years ago, but I am not convinced. I think they sold reasonably well. Sister's players were not an alien experience.
But they were expensive even back then.

If the models look good (and they would) and they were reasonably priced and they have good rules - they will sell.

The problem you get into this weird cycle. "We only make new Marines, so people only buy new Marines, so people must just want new Marines."

I mean going back to 1997 I'd feel fairly confident in saying that the second most popular 40k faction was Orks. Possibly by a reasonable distance.
But for some reason all the support for Orks started to leave the game. GW decided they should "play like this" - crap shooting, mob close combat (which often wasn't great), expensive, overcosted toys. There was a release of kits in the 2000s, then a lot of nothing. The 4th edition codex would run on through 5th and 6th edition, largely being crap. Then they got a new codex in 7th, just in time to be codex creeped into oblivion.

Bizarrely, despite only having an index, Orks are probably the most competitive they have been for years (despite a huge number of terrible unit choices).

But is it any surprise that factions GW leaves to die are not popular with the players? Old models, crap rules? You have to be pretty committed to go for it.

There was one person who had Sisters' models in my area and he had them as a tag on to an IG army. I don't remember playing against them much at all so I'm not sure they were popular. Seems like a lot of stars need to align for them to sell now, I could see the models looking great and having good rules, but being cheap? No chance.

For me, the big question is; "has the playerbase changed significantly, for Sisters to be worthwhile"? When they were released so many years ago, Sisters were extremely niche, but then again there were very few (if any) women I remember playing too. This has changed now, so perhaps they could be more viable than they were way back when? As you say, there is also the effect that GW have themselves on the playerbase, in terms of the quality of releases and what they "push".

Wierd thing is they still crop up quite a bit in the fiction.

The Sheild of Baal had loads of great new fiction, artwork the works
.
They are actually pretty strong in 8th edition.

And yet still no models....

I voted resent because it was closest to how i feel about calling custodes "the biggest release". I like the idea of more armies, i like soup imperial/chaos armies but it could have been a ton of outdated armies being re released with needed add ons. The more i think about it they could have done the same thing to pretty much any other line i can think of (except SOS) and i would have been happier. Scions, kroot, DE, white scars, slannesh deamons, non cadian ig, skitari All could use that extra bit of new sculpt, new dex love. Im honestly suprised it was custodes, them and sos aleadys felt strange to me and ive never seen anyone play or paint them in a way that stands out not that thats impossible but i dont see thier hardcore fans screaming for new stuff they would buy

I honestly thought it was going to be noise marines which people would have been iffy on too.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I'm all for it. People expecting tons of new models for old armies need to temper their expectations. I got a hunch that most old armies will be released without much of new units. and that we can expect to see newer armies pushed to the forefront.

much like with AOS

I think you're probably right on this front, much as I wouldn't particularly care for it.

The problem with this idea is that it ignores that many of the "old armies" that get released "without much of new units" actually saw significant overhauls and/or unit additions with their own army books not long before the End Times.

Dark Elves, for example, replaced their elderly Warriors, Dark Riders, and Witch Elves...not to mention the War Hydra and Cold One Chariot.

I'm talking age of sigmar, not end times specificly. Taking a guess, GW has, through market research, decided that new factions outsell reworks of old units. and even new units for old factions. Let's consider for a moment, ignoring space marines as they are a bit of an outlier here especially. When Admech, death watch, and GSC's came out people would build whole armies of them. when a new devestator kit comes out however, people buy maybe 1 or 2 tops. So I think this reflects the reason for GW's change, it proably has more of an inital cost to introduce a new faction, and there is likely a bit of a greater risk (I'll get back to this in a moment though) but it likely results in, on average, greater profits then new kits (or redone kits) for old armies.

Now getting back to the risk, GW has largely mitigated this risk by picking "low hanging fruit" the new factions they've introduced the last few years, have all been factions that exist in the setting lore already with a built in fanbase, have save death guard all been "Imperial" and thus able to be taken as allies by people with large and varied forces already (even gene stealer cults tap into this to a degree) people who say we need a new xenos army.. I don't entirely disagree. but a GENUINELY new Xenos army is a HUUUGE risk. compared to say... Custodes because there's no built in fanbase.

With that in mind, IF I was going to take a gamble on what the next Xenos army for 40k would be? My guess would be Tau Gue'seva. they could produce a kit or two for basic infantry, maybe a special vehicle or so. and then expan the range by giving them access to a mix of Tau and Imperial guard stuff. So you'd have IG infantry with pulse carbines, working along side lemen russ tanks and tau drones.
THAT IMHO is the lowest hanging fruit on the xenos side of things

There’s enough desire for new models to drive a whole lot of knock off guard and ork companies. It’s strange to me that small companies can do a wide variety of model options while gw just sits on designs from a decade ago.

It's basically another GK style army just 2.0 and very meh. Zealous, elite, crème de la crème. It's only here cause of the 30k craze and abusing despaired GK players that might see that old fire inside the AC dex. They just want your monies basically. What I'm interested in is how many GK players are going to move over to this considering their current situation.

 Viridian wrote:
It's basically another GK style army just 2.0 and very meh. Zealous, elite, crème de la crème. It's only here cause of the 30k craze and abusing despaired GK players that might see that old fire inside the AC dex. They just want your monies basically. What I'm interested in is how many GK players are going to move over to this considering their current situation.

I was ALREADY using Custodes as Paladins (and fielding a Supreme Command detachment to unlock Grey Knight Stratagems, Relics, e.t.c.). So yeah, all aboard. Being T5 instead of T4 and not paying way too much for fairly terrible psychic access is a huge improvement. That's before these guys even get a codex, terminators, jet bikes, e.t.c.

I quiet like the look of the army, knowing me I'd just get enough to field a small detachment with the two units I've gotten from the big box sets. But was rather disappointed since I love my DE, eldar and skitarri that these yet more new imperial models and army added. Just feel Xenos need alot more love and new models too.

IF this is a universal elite army has a chanse against hordes then im all for it, as GK lost that role a LONG time ago.

I just don't see the point. It's not really a fully formed army, they don't make a lot of sense to have their own Codex and there are plenty of other armies that still need updating. How many power armoured armies do we need anyway? How long before GW produces an "even more elite, this time they're the most elite, honest, pinky swear" army?

Slipspace wrote:
I just don't see the point. It's not really a fully formed army, they don't make a lot of sense to have their own Codex and there are plenty of other armies that still need updating. How many power armoured armies do we need anyway? How long before GW produces an "even more elite, this time they're the most elite, honest, pinky swear" army?

Pretty much this. Not liking the revisions to the fluff (Custodes Armies? Really?)

Imperium Soup is already strong enough. Plus that teaser image (They've waited... etc)... come on GW, that's Necrons. NECRONS.

Maybe they are trolling us hard?

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Darsath wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:
People are also downplaying the redundancy by claiming we got "another full army"...but it looks like GW is adding Custodes jetbikes, terminators, and HQ and calling it a full codex (i.e. they will have variants of the same unit in each force org slot). Contrast this to the number of choices in say Eldar or even space marines. Heck, at least GK have dreadknights.

Would a more fleshed out custodes army be cool? Yeah, maybe, but doing it before you update armies that people have had for 15 years is kind of insulting. Putting orks or dark eldar back into the meta with a codex is also better for the game as a whole, and the sooner you release a codex the sooner you can release FAQs, tweak balance issues, etc. And on top of that...their financials are looking just fine. They don't need to release an army no one has right now to sell more models at the cost of player good will.

The amount of 'dudes in power-armour' style armies we have right is already at the point of redundancy.

NAH! You need 1 Power Armor army per Xeno and then you need 1 more so they are winning!

You joke, but...

Space Marines, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Grey Knights, Blood Angels, Deathwatch, Custodes, Sisters.

Tau, Tyranids, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Necrons, Orks, Harlequins, Genestealer Cultists.

We are legitimately at that point if (when) they do something like a full fledged black templar release, or the brand spiffy new super-awesome marines+1+1+1 faction the TRIARIUS MARIIIIIINES for the next edition (Each one a giant 60$ centerpiece kit!)

The only thing that bugs me with the Custodes release is post the webway war there was like.. a 1000 left? So each one that dies is 0.01% of all the custodes in existence.

Facing a army of 20 or 30 coming to kill a bunch of marines just seems insane.

 AaronWilson wrote:
The only thing that bugs me with the Custodes release is post the webway war there was like.. a 1000 left? So each one that dies is 0.01% of all the custodes in existence.

Facing a army of 20 or 30 coming to kill a bunch of marines just seems insane.

They keep getting replenished. At the present time there's 8000 left having suffered casualties after 13th black crusade.

tneva82 wrote:

 AaronWilson wrote:
The only thing that bugs me with the Custodes release is post the webway war there was like.. a 1000 left? So each one that dies is 0.01% of all the custodes in existence.

Facing a army of 20 or 30 coming to kill a bunch of marines just seems insane.

They keep getting replenished. At the present time there's 8000 left having suffered casualties after 13th black crusade.

What fluff justification / how are they replenished? Each custode gene encoding was handcrafted by the big E. Are they suddenly on batch production?

Ask GW. Guess they decided that when Big G talked to him he told how they are made.