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If they're going after smaller lore-armies, I'd like to see some Kroot Mercenaries, Demiurg, and perhaps even liberated Zoats.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

orkychaos wrote:
Sure, the Xenos races play a part in keeping the whole grim dark “we’re hopelessly surrounded” vibe going, but they will never be pivotal to the overall flow of the universe. Custodes are, they played a huge role in what happened to the Imperium directly following the gathering storm story arcs.

They were a bit player in 30 year old lore fluff, they didn't exist as an army at all until last edition, I don't buy this naked rationalization in the slightest.

Orks have been a far more central faction to 40k for far longer than the Custodes.

Also, this statement is pretty dismissive of xenos players, but it does jibe with what I've been saying, it's Imperial/Chaos 40k, the xenos players are 2nd class customers that GW clearly doesn't value.

^^^ So much this.

Custodes are probably about the least pivotal military organisation in the 40k lore up until some market-driven attempt to make them relevant in recent years. They barely get a mention for pretty much all of the 40k fluff and now we're supposed to be happy they're getting a Codex to themselves? It's particularly annoying because the whole mystique surrounding them was pretty much that they were this tiny force of super-superhuman Marines who were basically mini-Primarchs according to what little was said about them, but that may have been hyperbole - we just didn't know. That was pretty cool. Now they've got rules, and that always diminishes these sort of legendary figures massively.

The reason a lot of people like Xenos armies is because they are genuinely different to all the various power armour factions. Regardless of how super-special your Marines are, they're still Marines. The resentment we're seeing towards Custodes seems to stem from the fact they don't really do anything to make 40k more interesting.

I don't know why people believe that they aren't redoing old kits because they are doing new lines.

They need to do both, just like videogames make at the same time reworks of old characters (Like League of Legends), but they still make new heroes.

New and shiny make MUCH more money than redoing old works. Thats just a fact. When a company goes back and redo some old kits, etc... is more for the fans and costumers than for real profit.

SOB are a special case here because they are so old that they when they redo the line it will be like a totally new army.

I do admit I'm a bit upset at them making a Custodes army.

There are probably way more numerous and important hive gangs in the Imperium than the Custodes.

I mean hell, the Hrud are a more numerous and credible threat to the Imperium than the Custodes are to Chaos, and Apostles of the Blind King destroyed more Imperial worlds than the Custodes have probably ever set foot on.

There are so many larger, and imo more interesting, factions that could be explored than the Custodes. I feel like the reasons they're doing custodes are:
1) More power armour
2) Models already made for a boxed game
3) They're in 30k
4) More power armour

It really doesn't have anything to do with the background.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
Six months is not a long time comparatively speaking... it is actually quite amazing and TBH anticipation is often better than the real thing.

People need to remember the pre 6th edition days when you could sometimes go entire editions without a codex.

My Bretonnians say Hi!

Then start crying

Slipspace wrote:
The reason a lot of people like Xenos armies is because they are genuinely different to all the various power armour factions. Regardless of how super-special your Marines are, they're still Marines. The resentment we're seeing towards Custodes seems to stem from the fact they don't really do anything to make 40k more interesting.

Lore wise or gameplay?

Lore wise, it's debatable and a matter of preference. I personally think they are, because I do enjoy HH era stuff, archeotech, and seeing the imperium actually change even if it's not in a particularly big way.

From a gameplay perspective, they absolutely do. Even SM armies aren't particularly elite these days. This looks to be very low model count with a focus on melee, which is a fairly lacking niche.

SilverAlien wrote:

Slipspace wrote:
The reason a lot of people like Xenos armies is because they are genuinely different to all the various power armour factions. Regardless of how super-special your Marines are, they're still Marines. The resentment we're seeing towards Custodes seems to stem from the fact they don't really do anything to make 40k more interesting.

From a gameplay perspective, they absolutely do. Even SM armies aren't particularly elite these days. This looks to be very low model count with a focus on melee, which is a fairly lacking niche.

Death Company BA? Deathwing DA? Grey Knights? Death Guard?

I'm just kind of astonished at the number of people in this thread who unironically want to play HH in 40k. I'm just glad that the people I play with don't share that opinion (or if they do, they don't share it with me...)

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:
Death Company BA? Deathwing DA? Grey Knights? Death Guard?

I'm just kind of astonished at the number of people in this thread who unironically want to play HH in 40k. I'm just glad that the people I play with don't share that opinion (or if they do, they don't share it with me...)

In order: that's not an army that's a unit in an army, that's not an army that's two units in an army, and that's not how DG play I assure you as a DG player.

From rumors I've heard the new 40K custodies in general are an elite anti-hoard army. I can't give a source sorry but supposedly even singe model units apparently put the hurt on mob-squads (e.g., orc boys, gaunts, etc.). This will help Imperial soup armies versus Chaos soup, Nidz and IG.

SilverAlien wrote:

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:
Death Company BA? Deathwing DA? Grey Knights? Death Guard?

I'm just kind of astonished at the number of people in this thread who unironically want to play HH in 40k. I'm just glad that the people I play with don't share that opinion (or if they do, they don't share it with me...)

In order: that's not an army that's a unit in an army, that's not an army that's two units in an army, and that's not how DG play I assure you as a DG player.

That's rich -- DG, I'll give you, may not have been the most apt comparison, but Custodes are "a unit in an army: the army". Even with these additions (unless I'm reading the situation completely wrong), they'll still be an incredibly elite army focusing on melee without a ton of variety and flexibility. Additionally, you didn't address Grey Knights as already completely filling the Custodes niche (but they have psychic capabilities and Custodes don't! Oh ho, I have slain my own argument)

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:
That's rich -- DG, I'll give you, may not have been the most apt comparison, but Custodes are "a unit in an army: the army". Even with these additions (unless I'm reading the situation completely wrong), they'll still be an incredibly elite army focusing on melee without a ton of variety and flexibility. Additionally, you didn't address Grey Knights as already completely filling the Custodes niche (but they have psychic capabilities and Custodes don't! Oh ho, I have slain my own argument)

Custodes are being expanded from a unit in an army to a proper army. Unless you are arguing that BA death company or deathwing should've become full stand alone armies with codices and a greater degree of unit variation instead of custodes?

Grey knights are the closest equivalent, but a bit hampered by being both entirely psychic and their anti demon shtick. Those are some fairly hefty limitations on the design space. I'll be curious how close they end up post codex.

SilverAlien wrote:

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:
That's rich -- DG, I'll give you, may not have been the most apt comparison, but Custodes are "a unit in an army: the army". Even with these additions (unless I'm reading the situation completely wrong), they'll still be an incredibly elite army focusing on melee without a ton of variety and flexibility. Additionally, you didn't address Grey Knights as already completely filling the Custodes niche (but they have psychic capabilities and Custodes don't! Oh ho, I have slain my own argument)

Custodes are being expanded from a unit in an army to a proper army. Unless you are arguing that BA death company or deathwing should've become full stand alone armies with codices and a greater degree of unit variation instead of custodes?

Grey knights are the closest equivalent, but a bit hampered by being both entirely psychic and their anti demon shtick. Those are some fairly hefty limitations on the design space. I'll be curious how close they end up post codex.

Grey knights can easily be built as a horde of power armour, and in fact it is one of the more effective ways to play them. A basic GK strike marine is only 21 points.

Consider the cheapest possible basic Custodian Gaurd unit is over 50 points per man - thats a whole new level.

A GK is 60% more expensive then a normal marine but dies just as easily.

That alone stops GK's from being a top army.

Custodians are more durable with the extra T and W, it will remain to be seen if the codex can compensate them enough for their high high cost.

Custodes are probably about the least pivotal military organisation in the 40k lore up until some market-driven attempt to make them relevant in recent years. They barely get a mention for pretty much all of the 40k fluff and now we're supposed to be happy they're getting a Codex to themselves? It's particularly annoying because the whole mystique surrounding them was pretty much that they were this tiny force of super-superhuman Marines who were basically mini-Primarchs according to what little was said about them, but that may have been hyperbole - we just didn't know. That was pretty cool. Now they've got rules, and that always diminishes these sort of legendary figures massively.

The reason a lot of people like Xenos armies is because they are genuinely different to all the various power armour factions. Regardless of how super-special your Marines are, they're still Marines. The resentment we're seeing towards Custodes seems to stem from the fact they don't really do anything to make 40k more interesting.

Good post.

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:


Death Company BA? Deathwing DA? Grey Knights? Death Guard?

Keep in mind that unless you go all Oprah Winfrey with special weapons, the most super-special mega-elite units from Deathwing and even GK are cheaper than the basic line infantry of the Custodes.

A similar comparison could be made for Space Marines vs Guard.

kombatwombat wrote:

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:


Death Company BA? Deathwing DA? Grey Knights? Death Guard?

Keep in mind that unless you go all Oprah Winfrey with special weapons, the most super-special mega-elite units from Deathwing and even GK are cheaper than the basic line infantry of the Custodes.

A similar comparison could be made for Space Marines vs Guard.

true on the other hand those elite units aren't troops. which custodes are. A unit of custodes guard grabbing an objective in cover would proably be damn near impossiable to dislodge.

I remember when that used to be the case for Paladins (and Nob bikers, but those aren't Marines). Of course, even back then, Paladins weren't that great (Draigowing got a lot of hate back then, but was a very poor second fiddle to Purifier spam).

 Primark G wrote:
From rumors I've heard the new 40K custodies in general are an elite anti-hoard army. I can't give a source sorry but supposedly even singe model units apparently put the hurt on mob-squads (e.g., orc boys, gaunts, etc.). This will help Imperial soup armies versus Chaos soup, Nidz and IG.

I'll believe it when I see it.I doubt any marine is going to be more point efficient at dealing with hordes than a guardsman with a lasgun and another, slightly more important guardsman yelling at him.

BrianDavion wrote:

kombatwombat wrote:

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:


Death Company BA? Deathwing DA? Grey Knights? Death Guard?

Keep in mind that unless you go all Oprah Winfrey with special weapons, the most super-special mega-elite units from Deathwing and even GK are cheaper than the basic line infantry of the Custodes.

A similar comparison could be made for Space Marines vs Guard.

true on the other hand those elite units aren't troops. which custodes are. A unit of custodes guard grabbing an objective in cover would proably be damn near impossiable to dislodge.

For sure, but can you afford to commit such a big chunk of your army to sit on an objective?

That’s a valid point - parking a minimum 295pt unit with minimal ranged firepower on an objective is a big ask.

kombatwombat wrote:
That’s a valid point - parking a minimum 295pt unit with minimal ranged firepower on an objective is a big ask.

Right now 5 Custodes with Storm Shields is 270 points, so little cheaper than that but point still made.

Maybe but if the ability to take a single unit applies to the basic custodes guard with the new codex.. suddenly you've got 1 or 2 models for 100 points that are being so hard to shift

BrianDavion wrote:
Maybe but if the ability to take a single unit applies to the basic custodes guard with the new codex.. suddenly you've got 1 or 2 models for 100 points that are being so hard to shift

The staff at the open day release said that basic Custodian Guard are now taken in units of 3-5, rather than 5-10

 AegisGrimm wrote:
As cool as they look, yeah GW needed to get all armies into 8th edition before releasing a new army.

Using that logic, we should have had Battletome Free People and Battletome Gnoblars before we had Kharadron Overlords

Spartacus wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Maybe but if the ability to take a single unit applies to the basic custodes guard with the new codex.. suddenly you've got 1 or 2 models for 100 points that are being so hard to shift

The staff at the open day release said that basic Custodian Guard are now taken in units of 3-5, rather than 5-10

So assuming the points costs don't change (big assumption) you're looking at 160 points for 3... not TOO bad. thats a ten man tac squad

No vote option for me, but we'll start with a misunderstanding. I know I've been away from the fluff, and I CERTAINTLY won't sink any more money into the novels after Rynn's World and Defenders of Ulthuan, but I thought the Adeptus Custodes was the guard of the Emperor's palace on Earth. Why are they even a playable faction in current 40K? Did their job description get changed?


And second the vote that EVERY other army should have been done before these clowns.

 Just Tony wrote:
No vote option for me, but we'll start with a misunderstanding. I know I've been away from the fluff, and I CERTAINTLY won't sink any more money into the novels after Rynn's World and Defenders of Ulthuan, but I thought the Adeptus Custodes was the guard of the Emperor's palace on Earth. Why are they even a playable faction in current 40K? Did their job description get changed?


And second the vote that EVERY other army should have been done before these clowns.

With the return of Gulliman they've been basicly kicked in the ass and told "can't defend the emperor of the entire IoM falls"

I'm ecstatic. This is the release Ive wanted and dreamed of since I got into the hobby 13, 14ish years ago.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
No vote option for me, but we'll start with a misunderstanding. I know I've been away from the fluff, and I CERTAINTLY won't sink any more money into the novels after Rynn's World and Defenders of Ulthuan, but I thought the Adeptus Custodes was the guard of the Emperor's palace on Earth. Why are they even a playable faction in current 40K? Did their job description get changed?


And second the vote that EVERY other army should have been done before these clowns.

With the return of Gulliman they've been basicly kicked in the ass and told "can't defend the emperor of the entire IoM falls"

So basically "To sell toys". Even more pointless.

DominayTrix wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
Six months is not a long time comparatively speaking... it is actually quite amazing and TBH anticipation is often better than the real thing.

People need to remember the pre 6th edition days when you could sometimes go entire editions without a codex.

Didn't people get to use the old editions codex when this was the case? I notice a lot of people keep saying it isn't as bad as the old days, but I always assumed in the old days worst case scenario they didn't take away the old codex like they did for 8th.

True for 4, 5, 6 and 7 ed though generally you sucked much like index vs codex.

Last time codexes were invalidated was 3rd ed. There marines got first codex 1998, tyranids 2001 2.5 years or so later. After that new versions and new factions like tau and necron came.

Imagine how hard it was for tyranids to play with the basic book list(index--) for 2.5 years First year saw space marines, dark eldar, blood angel, csm, dark angels, assasins, orks and eldar released.