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 5deadly wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's a Kamau with a SMG and a different hat.

Not sure why we needed a whole other game for it, but whatever.

Removed - BrookM

I will never understand these kinds of posts. Nobody cares and its arguably far more negative then what it purposes to be dramatically upset by.

Kan doesn't like something...another day that ends in Y. Somebody gets dramatically upset by a Kan post, the other days that end in Y.

My God! But don't all days end in a Y!?!?!

Oh the humanity.

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's a Kamau with a SMG and a different hat.

Not sure why we needed a whole other game for it, but whatever.

Two SMGs ... and those lips ...

Anyway, I can see where you are coming from, even though I do genuinely enjoy the render. I do think it is to be expected that these characters are going to be very generic in order to represent their faction properly and, at the same time, draw new players to Infinity.

 BertBert wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's a Kamau with a SMG and a different hat.

Not sure why we needed a whole other game for it, but whatever.

Two SMGs ... and those lips ...

Anyway, I can see where you are coming from, even though I do genuinely enjoy the render. I do think it is to be expected that these characters are going to be very generic in order to represent their faction properly and, at the same time, draw new players to Infinity.

Nothing about her represents the faction, let alone the subfaction she's supposed to be from though...

She's supposed to be from Svalarheima and some kind of "specops". Never before has Svalarheima been represented by someone wearing what is a weird blend of Kamau/Auxilia "light" gear with SMGs.

Said it over on the official forums, guess I'll repeat it here:
Nothing about "Defiance" has struck me as particularly inspiring nor exciting. It's a Kickstarter with rather uninspiring character tropes seemingly jammed in.

It clearly isn't aimed at me, and I'm okay with that. But I will not praise repetitive sculpts that look like they can be done with relative ease via conversions.

Uma Sørenson. A nice enough render, and good to see it in grayscale and not orange. Pose is more gamepiece rather than display piece. Fortunately, no tactical junk.

IIRC, there are also the following: Jazmin Jazz, the Nomad spellcaster. ( Of course a Sorceress with the mad skilz. And a pr0n star name. Because Nomads. :S ) Cadin "Firststrike" a Wulver (Apparently looks like a Comic book character called Sabretooth. ) Finally, Qiang Gao of Yu Jing. No Haqq hero.

Demos at GenCon. I'll wait for the retail release. I do like a Co-Op dungeon crawl. So do all the folks in my gaming group.

 Kanluwen wrote:


She's supposed to be from Svalarheima and some kind of "specops". Never before has Svalarheima been represented by someone wearing what is a weird blend of Kamau/Auxilia "light" gear with SMGs.

Said it over on the official forums, guess I'll repeat it here:
Nothing about "Defiance" has struck me as particularly inspiring nor exciting. It's a Kickstarter with rather uninspiring character tropes seemingly jammed in.

It clearly isn't aimed at me, and I'm okay with that. But I will not praise repetitive sculpts that look like they can be done with relative ease via conversions.

Her faction is PanO, not Svalarheima, or at least that is the faction she is representing in Defiance, and light SpecOps with supreme firepower and equipment is certainly something that fits the PanO archetype.

As for her pose, yeah, it's a bit bland, I agree. Might as well use both of those SMGs if you have em. Defiance is probably meant to draw new customers from the larger boardgame market, so I'd not expect it to cater to your needs as a long time player. The fact that it's funded via Kickstarter suggests they want it to be as low a (financial) risk as possible, so something generic is to be expected imo.

 BertBert wrote:

Her faction is PanO, not Svalarheima, or at least that is the faction she is representing in Defiance, and light SpecOps with supreme firepower and equipment is certainly something that fits the PanO archetype.

For me the problem is that they've chosen to showcase her with Svalarheima colors on her armor. If they wanted to have her as "generic PanO"? They could have just outfitted her as an Indigo SpecOps and called it a day.

As for her pose, yeah, it's a bit bland, I agree. Might as well use both of those SMGs if you have em. Defiance is probably meant to draw new customers from the larger boardgame market, so I'd not expect it to cater to your needs as a long time player. The fact that it's funded via Kickstarter suggests they want it to be as low a (financial) risk as possible, so something generic is to be expected imo.

For me it's less "needs" and more "representative of the faction".

MULTI weapons are more the PanO "thing", not SMGs.
Go into generic PanO in the Army Builder and filter by "Submachine Guns". You'll get 8 hits, of which only three will actually be PanOceanian. Of those three? Only one will have the SMGs as their "dedicated weapon", with the other two featuring Missile or Heavy Rocket Launchers.

Then consider the initial key art that they posted for Defiance, where she's showcased holding a MULTI Rifle instead of weird twin SMGs.

It's making me worried, frankly, that they're viewing this not as a "low financial risk" but another opportunity to milk players for preorder money and "exclusive sculpts" like they've done with event exclusives. There are several profiles(notably Unknown Ranger's Rifle profile) in the game currently which only were available via events/preorders.

 Kanluwen wrote:


..

Yeah, I was wondering why they changed the Multi-Rifle to two SMGs as well. You are right that SMGs are not very PanO, but we do have a quite recent precedent with Patsy getting a weird Orc SMG loadout, so there's that.
I honestly don't know how these things are decided and maybe it has to do with how the miniature performs within the ruleset of Defiance, but I assume this change is is just a case of "two SMGs look cooler and more Spec Ops than a normal rifle would".

Regarding the milking of players, there will always be room for suspicion, but I don't see the point in building a whole game around a scheme to sell a few exclusive sculpts at a higher price point. I do believe that this is an attempt of providing a relatively simple point of entrance for people who otherwise would just be overwhelmed with Infinity at first glance (this is still probably the biggest criticism of the game). Make a nice and simple board game that shares some of the general mechanics with the main game, include some generic but cool looking characters to give new players an idea about what each main faction looks and plays like and call it a day.

I can basically guarantee you that the reason the change was to two SMGs because she's going to be in Svalarheima as a character and they feel, for whatever silly reason, that "characters need to be special".

Wait characters are not supposed to be special?

 Kanluwen wrote:


Said it over on the official forums, guess I'll repeat it here:
Nothing about "Defiance" has struck me as particularly inspiring nor exciting. It's a Kickstarter with rather uninspiring character tropes seemingly jammed in.

It clearly isn't aimed at me, and I'm okay with that. But I will not praise repetitive sculpts that look like they can be done with relative ease via conversions.

This post reflects my views 100%. Really happy some people are excited, but for me it's just Malibu Stacey with a hat.

I agree with the sentiment as well. I think its kind of a boring idea for the company to side track into.

The "hero" characters have always been boring to me in dungeon crawlers; they're always tired tropes, and especially in CMON's case, just ripoffs of pop characters. It's the enemies and monsters that I'm looking forward to.

I think it's fine. It's all fine.

Corvus Belli are making more Infinity stuff. This is a good thing.

They're even making a new game. This is also good. Probably very good for them, since Infinity has become such an established game now, they've been plugging away at it for years, so it's probably a relief to get to stretch their legs a little with something at least kinda different. Good on them. And, like most of their Infinity stuff, it'll likely sell and do quite well in spite of some of the complainiacs. Double good on them.

Excited to see where Defiance goes. I'm not going to pre-judge it based on some concepts and preview pictures. That would be...

I mean...

That would be silly. Right?

I like the idea of a dungeon-crawl game. It fits the setting, it's not a million miles away from the basic Infinity game anyway (play Infinity on Space Hulk tiles and you're there!) and it's a way to add some specialised troop types that might not otherwise get considered. For example, I would think that most of the units in Defiance should have the Zero-G ability.

I'm not keen on commander or character versions of standard troop types having different weapons - it bugs me in Infinity, it bugs me in Dropzone Commander and in other games. It damages the immersion a little for me, in that Infinity already does very little to build the idea of a larger military organisation than the "squad of misfits", and having one guy with a rifle, one with a pair of pistols and one with an SMG doesn't help. But depending on the background for Defiance, that's OK.

I'm not keen on the pose for that Pan-O woman, though. I'm not sure exactly what it is, but the pose looks a little too casual. She doesn't look like she's doing anything with that SMG, just sort of pointing it vaguely at something (using it to give directions to the post office, perhaps), and the coloured one with two guns isn't any better; what's she doing with the gun in her left hand?

Full agreement, I'm finding nothing about Defiance to be very exciting. I want to see some actual gameplay info, because while I really want to white-knight for CB doing something new, there just isn't anything particularly interesting about this so far. CB has said that these characters will be usable in Infinity, but I'm just hoping for the opposite: that Defiance has rules for using regular Infinity figures in place of these heroes (or better yet rules for generating/converting from the Infinity RPG). I always prefer generics that you can make your own in these dungeon crawlers instead of the special non-specials like they're previewing.

Quite looking forward to seeing what they come up with here. Hopefully the game won't be too horribly complicated, is my main concern - but I'm sure the minis will be beauts.

So CA vs O-12?

Also Jazz render from defiance.

Going on a mission with a stun pistol against CA units that want you dead seems risky

 Monkeysloth wrote:
So CA vs O-12?

Maybe. The next one will most likely show the other faction in the box.

They showed the big yu jing heavy in defiance a while back too. I like all the ones they've shown so far on balance.

But those heels on Jazz are a bit ridiculous...

Maybe the idea with wildfire and defiance is that with both you're already two feet into shasvastii so why not commit?

 dulydude wrote:

New two player set?

Its that time of year.

 .Mikes. wrote:

 dulydude wrote:

New two player set?

Judging by the price, aye.

O-12 vs Combined seems likely.

Cool. Anyword on what units 0-12 will contain and release date?

No, we have zero information on what the deal is. At all.

All righty, thanks. Soooooo, anyone have speculation on what 012 might contain?