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dogfender wrote:
It would be pretty cool if TK and Setra came back as a good death faction from hyish. More about living constructs, think terra-cotta soldiers. Something death and nagash can never claim.

haha IMAGINE! That would be so badass. It would actually make sense for him to be Order. Yeah Setra hates everyone else who doesn't bend the knee but he despises Nagash and would rather have an Empire rather than serve in Death.

This would be so great.

It would be cool if Settra could be order and death (GW have said they have thought about cross-Alliance armies...). So he couldn't ally with the Mortarchs or Nagash but could draw on skeletons, ghouls etc.

There are plenty non Ngash aligned in the AOS fluff - including quite a few Flesh-Eater courts plus the remaining Amethyst princes (no we don't know what they are but Malign Portents and Legions of Nagash mention them). Neferata and Mannfred would love to be shot of him but bend the knee because they must.

I was hoping Legions would have had rules for the living followers and worshipers of Nagash as well.

Settra as a subfaction/Alignment would be cool - although people need to be careful not to align Order and "Good" - you can be "order" and not good in the traditional sense - see Morathi and her daughters, many witch hunters and some Stormcast.

Yep I too was hoping for some human followers, especially since Neferata seems to focus on the more living mortals side of things. I just want viking/knight forces serving under a Vampire Lord. Perhaps one day.

GoatboyBeta wrote:
Yep, unfortunately if you want to run any leader other than Morathi you have to get the Cauldron/Shrine kit or do some kitbashing. Fingers crossed we will see more releases in the future though.

I really hope DoK get Shadespire band soon, they could use a new hero sculpt and a few minis you could use as unit leaders for their old kit...

Also now that legions of nagash have come out without a single new kit

*cough* Knight of Shrouds? *cough*

Anyone found the Avatar rules? Don't seem to be on the website...

Also... Shame we can t just buy it.. I want it for my 40k..

Jacob29 wrote:
Anyone found the Avatar rules? Don't seem to be on the website...

Also... Shame we can t just buy it.. I want it for my 40k..

Chopstick posted it a few pages back. Here:

A neat idea, but I can see that animate mechanic limiting the Avatar to use only in armies with a larger number of priests. Otherwise I can see sniping priests being a key way to remove two threats at the same time - taking out the priest and its abilities and also the avatar.

It's a risky gamble to use such a unit, but if used right it could be a powerful hitter in its own right.

 Overread wrote:
A neat idea, but I can see that animate mechanic limiting the Avatar to use only in armies with a larger number of priests. Otherwise I can see sniping priests being a key way to remove two threats at the same time - taking out the priest and its abilities and also the avatar.

It's a risky gamble to use such a unit, but if used right it could be a powerful hitter in its own right.

Have you seen how the Battle Round thing for Daughters of Khaine works?

And some abilities/traits add to Rite number, meaning if you want more Avatars you can splurge on these and theoretically have first round count as third from the start...

 Overread wrote:
A neat idea, but I can see that animate mechanic limiting the Avatar to use only in armies with a larger number of priests. Otherwise I can see sniping priests being a key way to remove two threats at the same time - taking out the priest and its abilities and also the avatar.

It's a risky gamble to use such a unit, but if used right it could be a powerful hitter in its own right.

As a Tomb King player (playing in a store with too more Tomb King players - blessed is the land I walk on ) I have never seen that single model holding everything together being an asset if used correctly. It's always been a liability to be worked around to get the most out of the army. Age of Sigmar still being a GW game, shootier than Fantasy has ever been and with pinpoint character sniping absolutely viable, I can't imagine Come At Me Bruh Khaine being a fun model to play if all it takes to remove it from play is to remove the minder.

I thought TK can take multiple hierophants to mitigate that weakness though? Or is it like Vampire Counts where if you manage to kill a single model (the general, in their case) everything goes bye bye?
With VC the saving grace though is that their characters tend to be absolute beasts that are hard to take down. Don't remember hierophants being that tough.

I haven't played WHFB in like 5 years, so I forget the details.

 Geifer wrote:

 Overread wrote:
A neat idea, but I can see that animate mechanic limiting the Avatar to use only in armies with a larger number of priests. Otherwise I can see sniping priests being a key way to remove two threats at the same time - taking out the priest and its abilities and also the avatar.

It's a risky gamble to use such a unit, but if used right it could be a powerful hitter in its own right.

As a Tomb King player (playing in a store with too more Tomb King players - blessed is the land I walk on ) I have never seen that single model holding everything together being an asset if used correctly. It's always been a liability to be worked around to get the most out of the army. Age of Sigmar still being a GW game, shootier than Fantasy has ever been and with pinpoint character sniping absolutely viable, I can't imagine Come At Me Bruh Khaine being a fun model to play if all it takes to remove it from play is to remove the minder.

There isn't a single "minder" for the Avatar of Khaine. Any Daughters of Khaine Priest(Hag and Slaughter Queens) can Animate it.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I thought TK can take multiple hierophants to mitigate that weakness though? Or is it like Vampire Counts where if you manage to kill a single model (the general, in their case) everything goes bye bye?
With VC the saving grace though is that their characters tend to be absolute beasts that are hard to take down. Don't remember hierophants being that tough.

I haven't played WHFB in like 5 years, so I forget the details.

Tomb Kings have high leadership and the general's bubble, but if the Hierophant is gone it's only a matter of time Vampire Counts have ever been the favored child that gets the +1 version of Tomb King stuff. Vampires never crumble and if one guy dies, the next one just takes over.

But yeah, the avatar rule pretty much feels like GW is revisiting the bad old past to me.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

 Overread wrote:
A neat idea, but I can see that animate mechanic limiting the Avatar to use only in armies with a larger number of priests. Otherwise I can see sniping priests being a key way to remove two threats at the same time - taking out the priest and its abilities and also the avatar.

It's a risky gamble to use such a unit, but if used right it could be a powerful hitter in its own right.

As a Tomb King player (playing in a store with too more Tomb King players - blessed is the land I walk on ) I have never seen that single model holding everything together being an asset if used correctly. It's always been a liability to be worked around to get the most out of the army. Age of Sigmar still being a GW game, shootier than Fantasy has ever been and with pinpoint character sniping absolutely viable, I can't imagine Come At Me Bruh Khaine being a fun model to play if all it takes to remove it from play is to remove the minder.

There isn't a single "minder" for the Avatar of Khaine. Any Daughters of Khaine Priest(Hag and Slaughter Queens) can Animate it.

Boils down to: How many of them can you afford and don't they have anything better to do than push a big old iron statue around the landscape?

 Geifer wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

 Overread wrote:
A neat idea, but I can see that animate mechanic limiting the Avatar to use only in armies with a larger number of priests. Otherwise I can see sniping priests being a key way to remove two threats at the same time - taking out the priest and its abilities and also the avatar.

It's a risky gamble to use such a unit, but if used right it could be a powerful hitter in its own right.

As a Tomb King player (playing in a store with too more Tomb King players - blessed is the land I walk on ) I have never seen that single model holding everything together being an asset if used correctly. It's always been a liability to be worked around to get the most out of the army. Age of Sigmar still being a GW game, shootier than Fantasy has ever been and with pinpoint character sniping absolutely viable, I can't imagine Come At Me Bruh Khaine being a fun model to play if all it takes to remove it from play is to remove the minder.

There isn't a single "minder" for the Avatar of Khaine. Any Daughters of Khaine Priest(Hag and Slaughter Queens) can Animate it.

Boils down to: How many of them can you afford and don't they have anything better to do than push a big old iron statue around the landscape?

It's a Prayer(which means it gets used during the Hero Phase) that has all of the battlefield as its range, unless that entry posted earlier is missing something.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Spoiler:

 Geifer wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

 Overread wrote:
A neat idea, but I can see that animate mechanic limiting the Avatar to use only in armies with a larger number of priests. Otherwise I can see sniping priests being a key way to remove two threats at the same time - taking out the priest and its abilities and also the avatar.

It's a risky gamble to use such a unit, but if used right it could be a powerful hitter in its own right.

As a Tomb King player (playing in a store with too more Tomb King players - blessed is the land I walk on ) I have never seen that single model holding everything together being an asset if used correctly. It's always been a liability to be worked around to get the most out of the army. Age of Sigmar still being a GW game, shootier than Fantasy has ever been and with pinpoint character sniping absolutely viable, I can't imagine Come At Me Bruh Khaine being a fun model to play if all it takes to remove it from play is to remove the minder.

There isn't a single "minder" for the Avatar of Khaine. Any Daughters of Khaine Priest(Hag and Slaughter Queens) can Animate it.

Boils down to: How many of them can you afford and don't they have anything better to do than push a big old iron statue around the landscape?

It's a Prayer(which means it gets used during the Hero Phase) that has all of the battlefield as its range, unless that entry posted earlier is missing something.

The point is that you have a skinny elf you can't put in harm's way without risking the monster tied to her. You're just playing with what is effectively fewer points than your opponent because you either keep your cheap minder out of sight or utilize her for more than that and risk her and three times her points (as well as a discrete tactical instrument - it's not just about points) tied to the avatar.

It's a dependency and no matter how you sugarcoat it, it's an unambiguous downside to the avatar. You can be happy about it because you like such rules. It could be entirely balanced for all anyone knows. But that doesn't make it a fun rule to play as far as I'm concerned.

 Geifer wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Spoiler:

 Geifer wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

 Overread wrote:
A neat idea, but I can see that animate mechanic limiting the Avatar to use only in armies with a larger number of priests. Otherwise I can see sniping priests being a key way to remove two threats at the same time - taking out the priest and its abilities and also the avatar.

It's a risky gamble to use such a unit, but if used right it could be a powerful hitter in its own right.

As a Tomb King player (playing in a store with too more Tomb King players - blessed is the land I walk on ) I have never seen that single model holding everything together being an asset if used correctly. It's always been a liability to be worked around to get the most out of the army. Age of Sigmar still being a GW game, shootier than Fantasy has ever been and with pinpoint character sniping absolutely viable, I can't imagine Come At Me Bruh Khaine being a fun model to play if all it takes to remove it from play is to remove the minder.

There isn't a single "minder" for the Avatar of Khaine. Any Daughters of Khaine Priest(Hag and Slaughter Queens) can Animate it.

Boils down to: How many of them can you afford and don't they have anything better to do than push a big old iron statue around the landscape?

It's a Prayer(which means it gets used during the Hero Phase) that has all of the battlefield as its range, unless that entry posted earlier is missing something.

The point is that you have a skinny elf you can't put in harm's way without risking the monster tied to her. You're just playing with what is effectively fewer points than your opponent because you either keep your cheap minder out of sight or utilize her for more than that and risk her and three times her points (as well as a discrete tactical instrument - it's not just about points) tied to the avatar.

It's a dependency and no matter how you sugarcoat it, it's an unambiguous downside to the avatar. You can be happy about it because you like such rules. It could be entirely balanced for all anyone knows. But that doesn't make it a fun rule to play as far as I'm concerned.

You left out a key part; just a few posts above is the chart which says they are always animated from round three onwards.

 Geifer wrote:
It's a dependency and no matter how you sugarcoat it, it's an unambiguous downside to the avatar. You can be happy about it because you like such rules. It could be entirely balanced for all anyone knows. But that doesn't make it a fun rule to play as far as I'm concerned.

Again, read rites table posted above. As long as your score is 3+, Avatars need zero minders. And it's trivial to make it 3+ on first round, granted, it has some opportunity costs but these might be worth paying in army with multiple Avatars...

I quite like the fact that only ONE boxset gives you 7 possible unit builds (the Cauldron ; Avatar, Medusa, Slaughter Queen and Hag Queen all on foot, with the 3 shrine variants) or even 9 (the Blood Coven ally boxset ; adding the witch aelves and sisters).

They should really have added the Tenebrael Shard as a clam packs Hero, though...

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Spoiler:

 Geifer wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

 Overread wrote:
A neat idea, but I can see that animate mechanic limiting the Avatar to use only in armies with a larger number of priests. Otherwise I can see sniping priests being a key way to remove two threats at the same time - taking out the priest and its abilities and also the avatar.

It's a risky gamble to use such a unit, but if used right it could be a powerful hitter in its own right.

As a Tomb King player (playing in a store with too more Tomb King players - blessed is the land I walk on ) I have never seen that single model holding everything together being an asset if used correctly. It's always been a liability to be worked around to get the most out of the army. Age of Sigmar still being a GW game, shootier than Fantasy has ever been and with pinpoint character sniping absolutely viable, I can't imagine Come At Me Bruh Khaine being a fun model to play if all it takes to remove it from play is to remove the minder.

There isn't a single "minder" for the Avatar of Khaine. Any Daughters of Khaine Priest(Hag and Slaughter Queens) can Animate it.

Boils down to: How many of them can you afford and don't they have anything better to do than push a big old iron statue around the landscape?

It's a Prayer(which means it gets used during the Hero Phase) that has all of the battlefield as its range, unless that entry posted earlier is missing something.

The point is that you have a skinny elf you can't put in harm's way without risking the monster tied to her. You're just playing with what is effectively fewer points than your opponent because you either keep your cheap minder out of sight or utilize her for more than that and risk her and three times her points (as well as a discrete tactical instrument - it's not just about points) tied to the avatar.

It's a dependency and no matter how you sugarcoat it, it's an unambiguous downside to the avatar. You can be happy about it because you like such rules. It could be entirely balanced for all anyone knows. But that doesn't make it a fun rule to play as far as I'm concerned.

Your point is invalid; just a few posts above is the chart which says they are always animated from round three onwards.

If you have Daughters of Khaine allegiance and use the table which, granted, is likely but not the only way to play the models in question.

But yeah, if you guys can't bear the thought that I don't like the rule, how about we don't dwell on it any longer?

 HorticulusDK wrote:
I quite like the fact that only ONE boxset gives you 7 possible unit builds (the Cauldron ; Avatar, Medusa, Slaughter Queen and Hag Queen all on foot, with the 3 shrine variants) or even 9 (the Blood Coven ally boxset ; adding the witch aelves and sisters).

They should really have added the Tenebrael Shard as a clam packs Hero, though...

But you can buy him in separate, or am I mistaking what a clam pack means?

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-IE/tenebrael-shard

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/02/25/coming-next-week-shadow-ruins

Next week.

ah crap it will drag three weeks ...

Those ruins do seem to stack well. Shame there are no floor sections though.

Do the GW previews of pre-releases always contain all the things? Then again I guess GW still hasn't got their power and production situation restored so chances are they might have to stretch out releases just to keep on top of things.

Have they revealed some method for affecting the Blood Rites table that I'm not aware of?

 TheDraconicLord wrote:

 HorticulusDK wrote:
I quite like the fact that only ONE boxset gives you 7 possible unit builds (the Cauldron ; Avatar, Medusa, Slaughter Queen and Hag Queen all on foot, with the 3 shrine variants) or even 9 (the Blood Coven ally boxset ; adding the witch aelves and sisters).

They should really have added the Tenebrael Shard as a clam packs Hero, though...

But you can buy him in separate, or am I mistaking what a clam pack means?

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-IE/tenebrael-shard

He's arguing it should have been one of their heroes.

Tenebrael Shards are Shadowkin, same as the Mistweaver Saih. Both were called out as such back at the start of Silver Tower in some of the promo material.

I'm not feeling those ruins.

The snake ladies are cool, but the winged ones are the ones that'll probably make me buy some DoK allies later on.

PS: Considering how good they got at doing mythical animals in CAD plastics I lament the fact that dragon ogres, minotaurs, chimeras and manticores were already released and will never get an updated kit (GW still selling the zombie kit is proof of that). Those snake bodies are superb.

Would be real tempted to start AOS again with this release, the only thing stopping me is that they missed the opportunity to make some of the more over costed kits better priced either by lowering the cost directly or by releasing a start collecting( even though I wouldn't expect a SC at release anyway)

The witch elves not getting the "double sprues, not double price" treatment is certainly infuriating. But I guess with GW allegedly having their factory run at max capacity they won't budge on prices anymore.