Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The Stormcast Wizard looks pretty good, rules wise

 Knight wrote:

Wonder when they'll preview the starter to go with the new version of the rules.

I'm going to guess we've seen the models for it already.



Seems like this would make a good boxed set. Several new units, and mounted heroes for both sides.

So looking over the Nighthaunt preview page again, I am struck by how... decidedly subpar the names are. It seems like rushed/lazy naming that has struct many miniatures over the years. Off the top of my head and keeping with GWs general themes when it comes to names...

Chainrasp Hordes could just be 'Chained Hordes' or 'Shackle Hordes'

Glaivewraith Stalkers could have been Glaive Wraiths. Simple, easy, done.

Grimghast Reapers; I think 'Blind Reapers' or 'Blindghasts' would have been better. Their fluff doesn't describe them as particularly grim anyways.

Lord Executioner, Guardian of Souls, Spirit Torment; See GW, these don't come across as ridiculous. Things don't need extra adjectives added on!

Yes I know Chapterhouse copywrite blah blah blah, but changing things to trademarkable names was always pointless anyways. I'm split because the naming from the recent Aelf battletomes was more or less good but the first half of these Nighthaunts are, well, very GW. I won't even touch the Stormcast because as a faction they were too far gone a while ago.

The names aren't anything special, but death armies are generally full of anonymous undead anyhow. At least we didn't get anything like a sloppity bilepiper or something...and I think GW has done worse than that.

I'm actually pretty impressed with all the new nighthaunt models though. I think I might like them more than the deepkin. I am kinda bummed there aren't any skaven ghosts. The horseheaded ones are cool enough. But they don't have those crazy teeth. Maybe Nagash considers rat souls not worth even putting to use.

I think even as nighthaunts skaven would be backstabbing each other. The whole idea behind these spirits is they seem to be distilled down to their defining trait in life. So imagine trying to do that with a race that has sociopathy, paranoia, and backstabbing as it's most defined traits. Having them turn out as good as generic human souls is pretty much a best-case scenario.

As for names, they have yet to beat Ripperdactyls, I hope they never will.

Sad that the stalkers are all in the same pose. Could have been really great minis, but monopose is one of my petpeeves

Don't call them "monopose" but rather "synchronized soldiers".

 Arbitrator wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Doesn't work as well when they're very much emphasising the Space Marines that do most of the fighting.

Free Guild are what Imperial Guard are to Space Marines. They're far more numerous, they do most of the actual fighting and when the Sigmarines have wrecked face they move in to garrison the territory. As the art shows, they also fight alongside them. Sigmarines are the shock troops, glamorous elites who they make their posterboys, but given the vastness of the Mortal Realms they're not all that numerous compared to mere mortals.

Of course looking at the game thus far you'd never get that impression.

If it doesn't give that impression maybe that's just not how it is. Humans wander around doing whatev and Stormcast do all the fighting seeing as they just come back after death. As well garrisoning things seems redundant in AOS. You send in the Sigmarines, take the Realmgate, close it then move on. But maybe there's important stuff outside realm gates they just don't mention...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
So looking over the Nighthaunt preview page again, I am struck by how... decidedly subpar the names are. It seems like rushed/lazy naming that has struct many miniatures over the years. Off the top of my head and keeping with GWs general themes when it comes to names...

Chainrasp Hordes could just be 'Chained Hordes' or 'Shackle Hordes'

Glaivewraith Stalkers could have been Glaive Wraiths. Simple, easy, done.

Grimghast Reapers; I think 'Blind Reapers' or 'Blindghasts' would have been better. Their fluff doesn't describe them as particularly grim anyways.

Lord Executioner, Guardian of Souls, Spirit Torment; See GW, these don't come across as ridiculous. Things don't need extra adjectives added on!

Yes I know Chapterhouse copywrite blah blah blah, but changing things to trademarkable names was always pointless anyways. I'm split because the naming from the recent Aelf battletomes was more or less good but the first half of these Nighthaunts are, well, very GW. I won't even touch the Stormcast because as a faction they were too far gone a while ago.

GW is awful at naming things and even worse at attempting to justify them. A great example is Aeldari. A terrible name that serves literally just as copyright junk.

pm713 wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Doesn't work as well when they're very much emphasising the Space Marines that do most of the fighting.

Free Guild are what Imperial Guard are to Space Marines. They're far more numerous, they do most of the actual fighting and when the Sigmarines have wrecked face they move in to garrison the territory. As the art shows, they also fight alongside them. Sigmarines are the shock troops, glamorous elites who they make their posterboys, but given the vastness of the Mortal Realms they're not all that numerous compared to mere mortals.

Of course looking at the game thus far you'd never get that impression.

If it doesn't give that impression maybe that's just not how it is. Humans wander around doing whatev and Stormcast do all the fighting seeing as they just come back after death. As well garrisoning things seems redundant in AOS. You send in the Sigmarines, take the Realmgate, close it then move on. But maybe there's important stuff outside realm gates they just don't mention...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

This is like 2015-era fluff you're talking here. Stormcast taking realmgates and moving on was several hundred years ago in the lore at this point. There are huge cities, thriving societies and civilizations of all kinds depicted in the fiction now. Normal humans have a central role in most of them along with aelves and duardin since these societies are often multi-cultural. From your post it seems the last piece of fluff you read was the big book that came at the game's release.

 Mymearan wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Doesn't work as well when they're very much emphasising the Space Marines that do most of the fighting.

Free Guild are what Imperial Guard are to Space Marines. They're far more numerous, they do most of the actual fighting and when the Sigmarines have wrecked face they move in to garrison the territory. As the art shows, they also fight alongside them. Sigmarines are the shock troops, glamorous elites who they make their posterboys, but given the vastness of the Mortal Realms they're not all that numerous compared to mere mortals.

Of course looking at the game thus far you'd never get that impression.

If it doesn't give that impression maybe that's just not how it is. Humans wander around doing whatev and Stormcast do all the fighting seeing as they just come back after death. As well garrisoning things seems redundant in AOS. You send in the Sigmarines, take the Realmgate, close it then move on. But maybe there's important stuff outside realm gates they just don't mention...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

This is like 2015-era fluff you're talking here. Stormcast taking realmgates and moving on was several hundred years ago in the lore at this point. There are huge cities, thriving societies and civilizations of all kinds depicted in the fiction now. Normal humans have a central role in most of them along with aelves and duardin since these societies are often multi-cultural. From your post it seems the last piece of fluff you read was the big book that came at the game's release.

No I just don't think there's any difference. The Realmgates are the key to everything. If Sigmar has taken all the Realmgates in a Realm then that Realm is safe and secure. If not then he just needs to take the remaining Realmgates and shut them to make it so. In the cities and whatnot then there may well be normal humans and such but they don't really need to fight much and certainly not on the same scale as the Sigmarines do.

 Mymearan wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Doesn't work as well when they're very much emphasising the Space Marines that do most of the fighting.

Free Guild are what Imperial Guard are to Space Marines. They're far more numerous, they do most of the actual fighting and when the Sigmarines have wrecked face they move in to garrison the territory. As the art shows, they also fight alongside them. Sigmarines are the shock troops, glamorous elites who they make their posterboys, but given the vastness of the Mortal Realms they're not all that numerous compared to mere mortals.

Of course looking at the game thus far you'd never get that impression.

If it doesn't give that impression maybe that's just not how it is. Humans wander around doing whatev and Stormcast do all the fighting seeing as they just come back after death. As well garrisoning things seems redundant in AOS. You send in the Sigmarines, take the Realmgate, close it then move on. But maybe there's important stuff outside realm gates they just don't mention...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

This is like 2015-era fluff you're talking here. Stormcast taking realmgates and moving on was several hundred years ago in the lore at this point. There are huge cities, thriving societies and civilizations of all kinds depicted in the fiction now. Normal humans have a central role in most of them along with aelves and duardin since these societies are often multi-cultural. From your post it seems the last piece of fluff you read was the big book that came at the game's release.

You are right except for one thing : according to Spear of Shadow, it has been circa one century between the opening of the Gates of Azyr and the current status quo.
The Realmgate Wars lasted 30-50 years, and the building and expansions of the Free cities 70-50 years.
Season of War and Malign Portents show really well how the Order factions (beyond SCE) work together (sometimes with great difficulty like in Greywater Fastness, or with the relation with the Temples of Khaine).

But yeah, someone didn't read anything spring 2016

pm713 wrote:

No I just don't think there's any difference. The Realmgates are the key to everything. If Sigmar has taken all the Realmgates in a Realm then that Realm is safe and secure. If not then he just needs to take the remaining Realmgates and shut them to make it so. In the cities and whatnot then there may well be normal humans and such but they don't really need to fight much and certainly not on the same scale as the Sigmarines do.

None of that is supported by anything in the fluff since Kirby was ousted. You're making assumptions based off of Realmgate Wars-era fluff, and the story has moved way past that.

Turn priority

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/16/16th-may-rules-preview-turn-prioritygw-homepage-post-2/

Previously, players would roll off to determine who gets to decide who gets the first turn in each battle round, with the winner getting to choose. This works in much the same way in the new edition, but now, if the players get a draw, the player that went first in the previous battle round wins the roll.
In practice, this means that you’re somewhat less likely to get hit by a double turn, while if you do have priority, you’ll have a bit more control over when your opponent gets theirs. If you’ve just had a great turn, you might want to give your opponent priority to give yourself a chance to get a double turn later on in the game, for example.

I like that. Apparently the new persistent spells "interact with the turn sequence in an interesting way" as well.

Later today they'll be looking at Everchosen and Slaves to Darkness.

I'd have preferred the double turn gone rather than barely changed. I don't think persistent spells and being able to choose on a tie are going to make up for the awful system.

The Turn priority change seems sort of lackluster. I guess I expected more? Will have to wait to see what bonuses are for going second in a turn.

 mmzero252 wrote:
I'd have preferred the double turn gone rather than barely changed. I don't think persistent spells and being able to choose on a tie are going to make up for the awful system.

It will when you're talking about those persistent spells losing efficacy because of a double turn.

It's also worth mentioning that being able to choose to go first when you didn't get the double turn is a Big Deal.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 mmzero252 wrote:
I'd have preferred the double turn gone rather than barely changed. I don't think persistent spells and being able to choose on a tie are going to make up for the awful system.

It will when you're talking about those persistent spells losing efficacy because of a double turn.

It's also worth mentioning that being able to choose to go first when you didn't get the double turn is a Big Deal.

If they removed the double turn it wouldn't be an issue. They talked about a "Strategic double turn"..they neglected to mention it was still 100% on random chance. That's not "strategic" it's random.

 mmzero252 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 mmzero252 wrote:
I'd have preferred the double turn gone rather than barely changed. I don't think persistent spells and being able to choose on a tie are going to make up for the awful system.

It will when you're talking about those persistent spells losing efficacy because of a double turn.

It's also worth mentioning that being able to choose to go first when you didn't get the double turn is a Big Deal.

If they removed the double turn it wouldn't be an issue. They talked about a "Strategic double turn"..they neglected to mention it was still 100% on random chance. That's not "strategic" it's random.

We don't know how everything else works but once again: If these new persistent spells are as powerful as the old Purple Sun of Xereus was and they last a set number of Hero Phases, then you would want to avoid double turns as much as possible. If the person who goes first in the previous battle round gets to decide, they can ensure their spell lasts longer by going second or their opponent loses their spell's usefulness by doing the same.

But so far from what they've said it's still entirely random whether or not that will happen. So there's really no deciding at all.

 mmzero252 wrote:
But so far from what they've said it's still entirely random whether or not that will happen. So there's really no deciding at all.

It's random, except when you get a tied roll and then you have to choose.

There's too many unknowns, IMO, to be saying "there's really no deciding at all".

That change to the double turn is exactly what I've been saying they should do since the game's release, and I bet many others too. A small tweak that has a big impact. Love it!

 mmzero252 wrote:
I'd have preferred the double turn gone rather than barely changed. I don't think persistent spells and being able to choose on a tie are going to make up for the awful system.

Yep. It is massively impactful, and doesn't even simulate anything. It is pure game mechanics, and bad game mechanics at that.

 EnTyme wrote:

pm713 wrote:

No I just don't think there's any difference. The Realmgates are the key to everything. If Sigmar has taken all the Realmgates in a Realm then that Realm is safe and secure. If not then he just needs to take the remaining Realmgates and shut them to make it so. In the cities and whatnot then there may well be normal humans and such but they don't really need to fight much and certainly not on the same scale as the Sigmarines do.

None of that is supported by anything in the fluff since Kirby was ousted. You're making assumptions based off of Realmgate Wars-era fluff, and the story has moved way past that.

Agreed, control over realmgates doesn't stop the Skaven Gnaw-holes which can appear anywhere and Chaos can breach the walls of reality anyway - its just so much easier to use Realmgates in their myriad forms

The great cities - the "seeds of hope" have been established but some are built on treachery (by the Changling iirc) and strife with the locals is common including with Alarielle and most are riddled with corruption, cults and internal politics

Its very "Enemy Within" but now add Daughters of Khaine having an official presence in Azyr cities and until fairly recently the undead was not totally outlawed and cultists of Nagash sought new followers as did those of other gods.

Now of course Nagash and everyone else is at war plus chaos cults but the Deepkin and Destruction raiders.

Nowhere other than Azyr is really safe and its likely that much less safe now that the gates have been open for visitors for a hundred years plus.

 mmzero252 wrote:

If they removed the double turn it wouldn't be an issue. They talked about a "Strategic double turn"..they neglected to mention it was still 100% on random chance. That's not "strategic" it's random.

It's not purely random though. It's weighted. At the very least, ties happen 1/6th of the time, so 17% of the time the choice goes to the guy who doesn't get a double turn. There may be other things affecting initiative as well.

 Sqorgar wrote:

 mmzero252 wrote:

If they removed the double turn it wouldn't be an issue. They talked about a "Strategic double turn"..they neglected to mention it was still 100% on random chance. That's not "strategic" it's random.

It's not purely random though. It's weighted. At the very least, ties happen 1/6th of the time, so 17% of the time the choice goes to the guy who doesn't get a double turn. There may be other things affecting initiative as well.

Statistically it's 1/6 of the time...every round. I rarely have seen a tie actually happen. Flipping a coin a hundred times doesn't change the chance of a heads. But they also mentioned command points. Maybe there will be some sort of method to guarantee a double turn if you need it. It will certainly offset those games where you're massively losing and MAYBE a double turn will help you.

I think it actually fixes 90% of the issues with the double turn up front. Odds are slightly lowered to get a double turn (no more rolling a 6 to avoid a double turn but your opponent does to then you roll the 1) which means it's far less swingy than it was meaning going first may have some more advantages than it used to because people won't build on the double turn as hard. Makes sense to me at least.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
So looking over the Nighthaunt preview page again, I am struck by how... decidedly subpar the names are. It seems like rushed/lazy naming that has struct many miniatures over the years. Off the top of my head and keeping with GWs general themes when it comes to names...

Chainrasp Hordes could just be 'Chained Hordes' or 'Shackle Hordes'

Glaivewraith Stalkers could have been Glaive Wraiths. Simple, easy, done.

Grimghast Reapers; I think 'Blind Reapers' or 'Blindghasts' would have been better. Their fluff doesn't describe them as particularly grim anyways.

Lord Executioner, Guardian of Souls, Spirit Torment; See GW, these don't come across as ridiculous. Things don't need extra adjectives added on!

Yes I know Chapterhouse copywrite blah blah blah, but changing things to trademarkable names was always pointless anyways. I'm split because the naming from the recent Aelf battletomes was more or less good but the first half of these Nighthaunts are, well, very GW. I won't even touch the Stormcast because as a faction they were too far gone a while ago.

Blind Reaper is not as trademark-able as Grimghast Reapers. GW is trying its best to avoid really generic names.

 mmzero252 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 mmzero252 wrote:
I'd have preferred the double turn gone rather than barely changed. I don't think persistent spells and being able to choose on a tie are going to make up for the awful system.

It will when you're talking about those persistent spells losing efficacy because of a double turn.

It's also worth mentioning that being able to choose to go first when you didn't get the double turn is a Big Deal.

If they removed the double turn it wouldn't be an issue. They talked about a "Strategic double turn"..they neglected to mention it was still 100% on random chance. That's not "strategic" it's random.

This article is about deciding about when the double turn happens and has nothing to do what happens in the double turn strategic or otherwise.
This was a tiny (too tiny) drip of information. Hopefully there will be more articles about how the turn is actually played.
I think spending command points on interrupting the opponents turn would be a good way of mitigating the power of the double turn without completely negating it.

If the game is striving to build away from double turns, that's excellent. Hopefully these persistent spells are accessible enough and important enough that people won't just be gunning for two turns in a row all the time.

Also it would be great if the spells were usable by many factions. The spells pictured beside different factions/races in the preview worries me a bit.