Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Primark G wrote:
What does Tellion do for the scouts ?

You're the one telling Marine players what they're doing wrong. You should actually know what Tellion does.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
What does Tellion do for the scouts ?

You're the one telling Marine players what they're doing wrong. You should actually know what Tellion does.

Excellent contribution tot he thread. . .

Are they BS4? Maybe I am thinking renegades.

 Primark G wrote:
Are they BS4? Maybe I am thinking renegades.

Basic Guard are 4+. They'll probably have some Regimental upgrades too.

 Marmatag wrote:
It would be nice though, because then those -1 to hit would modify you out of a "Gets Hot!"

In all honesty i've found that overcharged plasma just isn't worth it. At least, when people are playing against me, it isn't worth it for them, unless they're running guard, because their models are for throwing away in suicide squads.

Due to the cost of marines, and the cost of their delivery systems, it just has always been underwhelming, at least from the perspective of the person being shot. I'm almost happy when people are overcharging their guns against me. That might change with DA though. Although with the Azrael nerf, and the "meh" nature of terminators / deathwing, i'm not convinced i'll see much DA outside of a Spearhead here or there.

Super underestimating a lot in their Codex then. Their land speeded characters are among the more powerful characters in the game, darkshrouds are good, as are dark talons, plasma inceptors, RW bikes are decent.

Breng77 wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
It would be nice though, because then those -1 to hit would modify you out of a "Gets Hot!"

In all honesty i've found that overcharged plasma just isn't worth it. At least, when people are playing against me, it isn't worth it for them, unless they're running guard, because their models are for throwing away in suicide squads.

Due to the cost of marines, and the cost of their delivery systems, it just has always been underwhelming, at least from the perspective of the person being shot. I'm almost happy when people are overcharging their guns against me. That might change with DA though. Although with the Azrael nerf, and the "meh" nature of terminators / deathwing, i'm not convinced i'll see much DA outside of a Spearhead here or there.

Super underestimating a lot in their Codex then. Their land speeded characters are among the more powerful characters in the game, darkshrouds are good, as are dark talons, plasma inceptors, RW bikes are decent.

I still feel the best moment in the sun for DA was early on, before the guard codex.

Azrael, 50x conscript squads, commissar, scions, dark shroud, razorbacks, dreadnoughts, and plasma devs /w banner. This list was beast, every DA piece got a 4++ from Azrael including the vehicles, the conscripts were morale immune and created ridiculous walls, twin autocannon dreadnoughts for range + the asscans before the meta shifted. DA actually rivaled Guilliman for some time on this strategy.

The current DA doesn't seem near that good. Almost everything in there has had its pants nerfed off. Azrael was the linchpin, he was massively nerfed, razorbacks were nerfed, conscripts were nerfed, I think autocannons went up but i forget tbh. Also pre-azrael nerf, Azrael + 2x fire raptor was beast, because they got a 4++.

The list is just different now. It's scouts or guard infantry, azzy + helblasters + banner + lieutenant + devestators. That isn't their best list right now IMO but it is th obvious power gunline build. While razorbacks got nerfed untargetable landsleeder characters are a thing now which are stronger. Honestly gunline style armies are super easy to beat with it. My biggest worry is guard with ignores LOS shooting, but if I go first I still usually win that matchup now anyway. Easy to delete chaff turn 1 then go after the tanks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think your view might be a bit skewed as a nids player about the azzy gunline. It is that tough but I beat it regularly pre codex. Immobile armies are pretty weak in the long run.

Well my army is the opposite of a gunline. I haven't played that DA list you're mentioning yet, but by the looks of it i feel i would match up well. Hopefully i'll get to find out soon.

The best DA list now has both Hellblasters and plasma Inceptors.

I think it is okay to discuss DA in this thread. :-)

 Primark G wrote:
The best DA list now has both Hellblasters and plasma Inceptors.

I think it is okay to discuss DA in this thread. :-)

Well i mean *a* DA list has these elements. I'll be curious to see if it's represented at all at the LVO or another GT.

I think Terminators are the best unit in the codex. At 40 points a head you get 2 wounds at T4 2+/5++ a power fist and storm bolter. This lets them kill 10 guards men in one turn if they charge. Also if they do charge every turn and lose no models making back their 200 point investment in just 5 turns

 Primark G wrote:
The best DA list now has both Hellblasters and plasma Inceptors.

I think it is okay to discuss DA in this thread. :-)

I disagree I think that is too many points in competing elements.

A friend is going to LVO - I helped him design his list... he has done pretty good with it. Doesn't mean it is the best list but so far is looking good.

I think terminators are a great centerpiece to fluffy armies.

 mew28 wrote:
I think Terminators are the best unit in the codex. At 40 points a head you get 2 wounds at T4 2+/5++ a power fist and storm bolter. This lets them kill 10 guards men in one turn if they charge. Also if they do charge every turn and lose no models making back their 200 point investment in just 5 turns

He prolly really means it too.

 Primark G wrote:
He prolly really means it too.

Well his post is pretty indicative of this thread. As a CSM player I was hoping to hear interesting things about Marines in this thread but instead I guess I should only be worried about certain units that need way too much support to be viable. That's a relief!

It’s a great day for traitors if you believe what you read.

 Primark G wrote:
It’s a great day for traitors if you believe what you read.

Not really. IG will handle them just the same.

I think DA/Ravenwing are possibly the other strong build besides Bobby G/Ultramarines/Dakka builds.

2 Darkshrouds create the -1 bubble for the army similar to Alaitoc or Ravenguard and we know what it does to deter gunlikes like IG. Conversely, it also lowers your vulnerability to plasma as detailed in the thread earlier. Plus then Ravenwing can take their own good flier to stack on top of this as well.

Then quite simply the Weapons of the Dark Age is cheap, easy to build around, and almost always useful. Then add Speed of the Ravenwing on top of that to add much needed reach. It's also 1 CP and pretty good in all situations too. Since both these Stratagems are only 1 CP, you don't need to mess with brigades or ways to artificially generate CP. A battalion and an outrider or two is good enough.

These powerful stratagems are simple and ubiquitous versus the standard marine ones which tend to be more toolsy and situational. Add in a unit that can provide -1 bubbles and you have some of the most powerful abilities for your small elite army.

Both this build and Bobby G go for simplicity and efficiency as opposed to the rest of the marine codex which seems to just want to give you options upon more options that are usually kind of situational.

Primark go see what you think of my killshot list over in the list forum.

Looks like two Blood Angel armies have made it to the final 8 in Vegas. Not shabby.

Indeed. 3 in the top 10.

 Primark G wrote:
Looks like two Blood Angel armies have made it to the final 8 in Vegas. Not shabby.

Oh gak! Dis gon be gud! I wish we knew some concept of the list makeup. Is melee back?

The BA are chopping it up like a Ginsu.

I wonder what happened to AM...

Anyone know their lists? Just curious.

There are a few lists posted in the Tournament Discussions thread. The only one I can see belonging to one of the BA players is from the guy currently in 4th place.

I noticed he is running quite a few Intercessor squads.

I watched him play round 6, narrow win vs Chaos buffed Fire Raptor. The Ints are there to hold objectives out in the open, they do much better in progressive objective games as opposed to end game scoring.

Most of his heavy lifting is done by characters, Death Co, and Sang Guard.

It was hilarious when the raptor blew and took out a huge chunk of his army packed around it.

 Primark G wrote:
I noticed he is running quite a few Intercessor squads.

Intercessors are one of the best units in the codex as far as I'm concerned. The range output is kinda lame but the melee output and durability is pretty awesome (if you ever get into melee, of course).