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 casvalremdeikun wrote:
So, judging by what I have seen so far, it is pretty disappointing that Crisis Suits are not that great. I still think suit armies will still be viable, but it seems like better options for suits still exist. Oh well. I still plan on getting a Commander and making him into a Coldstar. Or I might just get CharFarsight. I don't want a Tau force, but the stuff I want I want to make decently powerful, so that if I change my mind, I can use them and not feel dumb.

Don’t get too hyped about the Riptide/etc. buffs. You need to remember these units were in the ‘unbelievably useless trash’ tier before. A unit overpriced by 100 points per model getting a 50 point reduction doesn’t all of a sudden make it competitive. They barely climbed a tier and now solidly sit at the ‘trashy’ tier.

 Therion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
So, judging by what I have seen so far, it is pretty disappointing that Crisis Suits are not that great. I still think suit armies will still be viable, but it seems like better options for suits still exist. Oh well. I still plan on getting a Commander and making him into a Coldstar. Or I might just get CharFarsight. I don't want a Tau force, but the stuff I want I want to make decently powerful, so that if I change my mind, I can use them and not feel dumb.

Don’t get too hyped about the Riptide/etc. buffs. You need to remember these units were in the ‘unbelievably useless trash’ tier before. A unit overpriced by 100 points per model getting a 50 point reduction doesn’t all of a sudden make it competitive. They barely climbed a tier and now solidly sit at the ‘trashy’ tier.

Right, but they didn't only get a price cut - their guns are also a lot more effective, and they are getting sept traits and stratagems.

With a -1 to hit Sept trait and a “shoot again” stratagem for 2cp I’d agree with you. Sadly, that’s not reality.

Point is that if one doesn’t know the power level of most Tau index units he’d probably get trolled by GW’s teaser campaign into thinking these units are now awesome.

 Therion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
So, judging by what I have seen so far, it is pretty disappointing that Crisis Suits are not that great. I still think suit armies will still be viable, but it seems like better options for suits still exist. Oh well. I still plan on getting a Commander and making him into a Coldstar. Or I might just get CharFarsight. I don't want a Tau force, but the stuff I want I want to make decently powerful, so that if I change my mind, I can use them and not feel dumb.

Don’t get too hyped about the Riptide/etc. buffs. You need to remember these units were in the ‘unbelievably useless trash’ tier before. A unit overpriced by 100 points per model getting a 50 point reduction doesn’t all of a sudden make it competitive. They barely climbed a tier and now solidly sit at the ‘trashy’ tier.

I agree that the Riptide hype is a bit overblown. The HBC variant is now useful and potentially has a place in competitive Tau lists, but it's definitely not the earth-shattering OMG revamp that some have been making it out to be.

With a -1 to hit Sept trait and a “shoot again” stratagem for 2cp I’d agree with you. Sadly, that’s not reality.

Not a reality yet. The -1 to hit thing probably is very unlikely to happen, but I can certainly see a shoot twice strat being in the mix. However, calling Tau "trash tier" is premature and probably inaccurate based on what we've seen so far. Fire Warriors are a powerful tool when supported, and fusion Commanders are still an option. As you noted, Borkan Y'Vahras are solid contenders now, as well. I don't expect Tau to shake up the ITC comepetitve meta in spectacular fashion, but I do see us contending at a relatively high level. It might be more of the same monobuild gak that we're cureently in just with a different monobuild, but I'm hopeful the changes will spark some variety in tournament lists.

 Therion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
So, judging by what I have seen so far, it is pretty disappointing that Crisis Suits are not that great. I still think suit armies will still be viable, but it seems like better options for suits still exist. Oh well. I still plan on getting a Commander and making him into a Coldstar. Or I might just get CharFarsight. I don't want a Tau force, but the stuff I want I want to make decently powerful, so that if I change my mind, I can use them and not feel dumb.

Don’t get too hyped about the Riptide/etc. buffs. You need to remember these units were in the ‘unbelievably useless trash’ tier before. A unit overpriced by 100 points per model getting a 50 point reduction doesn’t all of a sudden make it competitive. They barely climbed a tier and now solidly sit at the ‘trashy’ tier.

Yeah. Same thing happened to the Wraithknight, a 50 point reduction, and how many do you see on the table now?

A unit overpriced by 100 points getting a 50 point reduction+Upgraded weapon profiles+Sept buffs+Usefull and powerfull Stratagems can absolutely become playable and competitive.

I think Riptides still look significantly worse than, say, Hive Tyrants, ignoring stratagems. Though Hive Tyrants are really great so that doesn't necessarily mean Riptides are bad. It's probably pretty easy to justify one Riptide in a list since you can keep it at 3++ forever, but it seems harder to justify more than one which you'd probably want to shield with costly drones.

 Galas wrote:
A unit overpriced by 100 points getting a 50 point reduction+Upgraded weapon profiles+Sept buffs+Usefull and powerfull Stratagems can absolutely become playable and competitive.

From what Hikaru had said, the Riptide itself saw a 24 point reduction, the HBC saw a points reduction of a similar cost, and the IA saw a 42 point drop.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Was somebody waiting for this? Can't remember...







Farsight Enclaves preview

Also, Iridium is now an upgrade rather than a Signature System as is the Enforcer Battlesuit.
They mention "Crisis Battlesuits with four flamers apiece" in the write-up for the Tenet, so we might see more slots open up on basic suits?

Khorne is pleased with these new melee options for Tau.

 andysonic1 wrote:
Khorne is pleased with these new melee options for Tau.

Bringing back some fan favorites from the Farsight Enclaves Supplement in 6th.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/07/tau-empire-preview-farsight-enclavesgw-homepage-post-3/

What kills me is the fact that folks apparently expect to get the best chaos stratagem coupled with what is obviously the most abusive chapter trait in order for something to not be trash.

I mean, you seriously think MORE of the BS -1 to hit an entire faction, let alone one that doubles down on range would really be good for the health of the game?

I sincerely hope NO ONE gets that silly negative to hit BS moving forward. Specific units I am fine with, it's easy to adjust their particular cost, an optional army wide trait however is the stupidest move yet made this edition.

I sincerely hope GW patches the hit mod mechanic in the next CA. "Hit mods do not stack, and when applying both negative and positive mods they cancel." Done.

Next they should make mixed faction armies forfeit all none rulebook staratgems. Want to play soup? Go for it make a fluffy strange list with stacking buffs, but there is a cost.

C&C node could potentially be interesting if you sell out on Crisis Suits. 9 triple CIB suits dropping in with the rumored +1 BS strat would certainly enjoy rerolling wounds, but that costs like 1000pts. Probably not worthwhile, but might be the new version of the crisis bomb. Otherwise, avoiding shooting with your best shooting model to get wound rerolls for another suit seems unwise.

It's nice that the fusion blades aren't a strict downgrade any more, I suppose. FSE does not look like a useful Sept, based on these reveals.

command and control node is weak; granted it was way too strong on old buffmanders, but it would have been about right as a limited us CP gobbler.

MilkmanAl wrote:
C&C node could potentially be interesting if you sell out on Crisis Suits. 9 triple CIB suits dropping in with the rumored +1 BS strat would certainly enjoy rerolling wounds, but that costs like 1000pts. Probably not worthwhile, but might be the new version of the crisis bomb. Otherwise, avoiding shooting with your best shooting model to get wound rerolls for another suit seems unwise.

It's nice that the fusion blades aren't a strict downgrade any more, I suppose. FSE does not look like a useful Sept, based on these reveals.

FSE is the one who gets the +1BS Strat from what Hikaru said.

Hmm, I wonder if you can take both Fusion Blades and Onager Gauntlet on the same Commander... although probably not, seeing that Signature Systems are most likely the Tau equivalent of relics.

Pandabeer wrote:
Hmm, I wonder if you can take both Fusion Blades and Onager Gauntlet on the same Commander... although probably not, seeing that Signature Systems are most likely the Tau equivalent of relics.

The Character restriction is unfortunate, as I'd love to be able to put fusion blades on a Riptide or Ghostkeel. in order to run maximum melee gundam tau, you'd need to have three detachments to get Farsight and two Commanders. The upshot of that would be that you could take a non-enclaves detachment in the one that gets the Onager gauntlet, to do your mix-n-match trait goodness.

Protip: Onager Commander goes in a Viorla detachment so you can get Aunshi for truly maximum melee tau.

the_scotsman wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:
Hmm, I wonder if you can take both Fusion Blades and Onager Gauntlet on the same Commander... although probably not, seeing that Signature Systems are most likely the Tau equivalent of relics.

The Character restriction is unfortunate, as I'd love to be able to put fusion blades on a Riptide or Ghostkeel. in order to run maximum melee gundam tau, you'd need to have three detachments to get Farsight and two Commanders. The upshot of that would be that you could take a non-enclaves detachment in the one that gets the Onager gauntlet, to do your mix-n-match trait goodness.

Protip: Onager Commander goes in a Viorla detachment so you can get Aunshi for truly maximum melee tau.

I'm intrigued by your statements, because now I'm just thinking about a Ghostkeel running around with Fusion Blades on its shoulders.

MilkmanAl wrote:
C&C node could potentially be interesting if you sell out on Crisis Suits. 9 triple CIB suits dropping in with the rumored +1 BS strat would certainly enjoy rerolling wounds, but that costs like 1000pts. Probably not worthwhile, but might be the new version of the crisis bomb. Otherwise, avoiding shooting with your best shooting model to get wound rerolls for another suit seems unwise.

It's nice that the fusion blades aren't a strict downgrade any more, I suppose. FSE does not look like a useful Sept, based on these reveals.

its only ONE suit that gets to benefit, if i read it correctly

v0iddrgn and Nevermind, keep it polite. If you don't like what he's saying, refute it. Don't just insult him.

 davou wrote:

MilkmanAl wrote:
C&C node could potentially be interesting if you sell out on Crisis Suits. 9 triple CIB suits dropping in with the rumored +1 BS strat would certainly enjoy rerolling wounds, but that costs like 1000pts. Probably not worthwhile, but might be the new version of the crisis bomb. Otherwise, avoiding shooting with your best shooting model to get wound rerolls for another suit seems unwise.

It's nice that the fusion blades aren't a strict downgrade any more, I suppose. FSE does not look like a useful Sept, based on these reveals.

its only ONE suit that gets to benefit, if i read it correctly

unit

 davou wrote:

MilkmanAl wrote:
C&C node could potentially be interesting if you sell out on Crisis Suits. 9 triple CIB suits dropping in with the rumored +1 BS strat would certainly enjoy rerolling wounds, but that costs like 1000pts. Probably not worthwhile, but might be the new version of the crisis bomb. Otherwise, avoiding shooting with your best shooting model to get wound rerolls for another suit seems unwise.

It's nice that the fusion blades aren't a strict downgrade any more, I suppose. FSE does not look like a useful Sept, based on these reveals.

its only ONE suit that gets to benefit, if i read it correctly

One "unit", not one suit.

the_scotsman wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:
Hmm, I wonder if you can take both Fusion Blades and Onager Gauntlet on the same Commander... although probably not, seeing that Signature Systems are most likely the Tau equivalent of relics.

The Character restriction is unfortunate, as I'd love to be able to put fusion blades on a Riptide or Ghostkeel. in order to run maximum melee gundam tau, you'd need to have three detachments to get Farsight and two Commanders. The upshot of that would be that you could take a non-enclaves detachment in the one that gets the Onager gauntlet, to do your mix-n-match trait goodness.

Protip: Onager Commander goes in a Viorla detachment so you can get Aunshi for truly maximum melee tau.

Did you just say "maximum melee" in regards to T'au? Don't think you using the army right.

 Therion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
So, judging by what I have seen so far, it is pretty disappointing that Crisis Suits are not that great. I still think suit armies will still be viable, but it seems like better options for suits still exist. Oh well. I still plan on getting a Commander and making him into a Coldstar. Or I might just get CharFarsight. I don't want a Tau force, but the stuff I want I want to make decently powerful, so that if I change my mind, I can use them and not feel dumb.

Don’t get too hyped about the Riptide/etc. buffs. You need to remember these units were in the ‘unbelievably useless trash’ tier before. A unit overpriced by 100 points per model getting a 50 point reduction doesn’t all of a sudden make it competitive. They barely climbed a tier and now solidly sit at the ‘trashy’ tier.

Are you aware the codex Riptide HBC gets around 50% more shots and 100% more damage per shot with a price reduction. When you combine those 2 together 1 codex HBC Riptide has more firepower then 2 index HBC Riptides or more firepower then 1 Index Riptide with fire twice.

Add on Command and control so the Riptide rerolls all failed wounds and now 1 Codex Riptide outputs approx similar damage to 3 Index Riptides.
I do not follow you reasoning on “They barely climbed a tier and now solidly sit at the ‘trashy’ tier”

How is this remotely in the trashy’ tier? With the 200%+ extra firepower, lower points cost, option of 3++ or jump, shoot, jump alongside that firepower, they move well beyond the trashy tier.

v0iddrgn wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:
Hmm, I wonder if you can take both Fusion Blades and Onager Gauntlet on the same Commander... although probably not, seeing that Signature Systems are most likely the Tau equivalent of relics.

The Character restriction is unfortunate, as I'd love to be able to put fusion blades on a Riptide or Ghostkeel. in order to run maximum melee gundam tau, you'd need to have three detachments to get Farsight and two Commanders. The upshot of that would be that you could take a non-enclaves detachment in the one that gets the Onager gauntlet, to do your mix-n-match trait goodness.

Protip: Onager Commander goes in a Viorla detachment so you can get Aunshi for truly maximum melee tau.

Did you just say "maximum melee" in regards to T'au? Don't think you using the army right.

Did I stutter?

The needle for maximum melee on tau has changed. The new possibilities WILL be explored! shooting is wonderful but now Minsc leads! Melta bayonets for everyone!

MilkmanAl wrote:
Otherwise, avoiding shooting with your best shooting model to get wound rerolls for another suit seems unwise.

Maybe, but if you go light and drag a flamer unit along for the ride rerolling wounds on those could be quite fun.

 davou wrote:
command and control node is weak; granted it was way too strong on old buffmanders, but it would have been about right as a limited us CP gobbler.

It seems strong to me under some situations. Use it to boost a Riptide nove charged weapon. Perhaps use it on a cheap commander with a drone controller so you are boosting drone squads and a riptide.

If you're talking using C&C node on a single suit, it had better be a Stormsurge or an Y'Vahra. Except in weird situations, nothing else is going to be worth giving up 4 essentially guaranteed fusion hits to reroll wounds.

As I mentioned, I think this strat is the new advent of the Crisis Bomb. Load up 9 suits with CIBs, drop them and a Commander somewhere that you can actually make use of 27 CIBs, and go nuts. Make sure you bring a load of drones. that's a ton of points, but if you can manage adequate marker support against your main target(s), it'll do huge damage. Doubly so if they all have +1BS.

As for the melee Tau thing, if it hasn't crossed your mind to make a close-quraters Tau army, you haven't been playing around enough. I can totally see having a legion of flamer suits getting in close and dusting it up. Nobody will see it coming, and with rerolling 1s to wound, it could do some real damage. It's a friendly-only strategy, for sure, but it's funny as hell.

MilkmanAl wrote:
If you're talking using C&C node on a single suit, it had better be a Stormsurge or an Y'Vahra. Except in weird situations, nothing else is going to be worth giving up 4 essentially guaranteed fusion hits to reroll wounds.

As I mentioned, I think this strat is the new advent of the Crisis Bomb. Load up 9 suits with CIBs, drop them and a Commander somewhere that you can actually make use of 27 CIBs, and go nuts. Make sure you bring a load of drones. that's a ton of points, but if you can manage adequate marker support against your main target(s), it'll do huge damage. Doubly so if they all have +1BS.

As for the melee Tau thing, if it hasn't crossed your mind to make a close-quraters Tau army, you haven't been playing around enough. I can totally see having a legion of flamer suits getting in close and dusting it up. Nobody will see it coming, and with rerolling 1s to wound, it could do some real damage. It's a friendly-only strategy, for sure, but it's funny as hell.

If you are burning 4 fusions on a commander then i highly doubt you would care to hang out near a stormsurge.

if you are then you probably built around the fact that you want to use CC node.

so the commander would probably be built cheap.

C bombs and CQC tau sound hilarious though. personally would love to give them with breachers a shot.

the_scotsman wrote:

v0iddrgn wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:
Hmm, I wonder if you can take both Fusion Blades and Onager Gauntlet on the same Commander... although probably not, seeing that Signature Systems are most likely the Tau equivalent of relics.

The Character restriction is unfortunate, as I'd love to be able to put fusion blades on a Riptide or Ghostkeel. in order to run maximum melee gundam tau, you'd need to have three detachments to get Farsight and two Commanders. The upshot of that would be that you could take a non-enclaves detachment in the one that gets the Onager gauntlet, to do your mix-n-match trait goodness.

Protip: Onager Commander goes in a Viorla detachment so you can get Aunshi for truly maximum melee tau.

Did you just say "maximum melee" in regards to T'au? Don't think you using the army right.

Did I stutter?

The needle for maximum melee on tau has changed. The new possibilities WILL be explored! shooting is wonderful but now Minsc leads! Melta bayonets for everyone!

Exalted.

There's still an assault phase in a Tau player's turn, last I checked. There are plenty of things you can do in it. Maybe not many enemies will die, but assaulting things is a great way to prevent them from shooting and assaulting other things. Loads of Tau stuff flies, so having your devilfish charge a land raider or a big unit of ork boyz may well be a solid option.

To me it looks like the cnc node thing is basically a trap - at least with XV8s. Putting together a big unit to maximise the effectiveness of the strat is a bad idea - way to risky.

I can see it being a bit more justifiable on something like a broadside unit though. If they are chucking out 6 HRR shots, a load of SMS fire and maybe some HK missiles, rerolls to wound will matter.

I really want to know which units get to have the high-intensity plasma rifle. That's a nice gun and it would be a shame if only Farsight gets it.

MilkmanAl wrote:
If you're talking using C&C node on a single suit, it had better be a Stormsurge or an Y'Vahra. Except in weird situations, nothing else is going to be worth giving up 4 essentially guaranteed fusion hits to reroll wounds.

As I mentioned, I think this strat is the new advent of the Crisis Bomb. Load up 9 suits with CIBs, drop them and a Commander somewhere that you can actually make use of 27 CIBs, and go nuts. Make sure you bring a load of drones. that's a ton of points, but if you can manage adequate marker support against your main target(s), it'll do huge damage. Doubly so if they all have +1BS.

As for the melee Tau thing, if it hasn't crossed your mind to make a close-quraters Tau army, you haven't been playing around enough. I can totally see having a legion of flamer suits getting in close and dusting it up. Nobody will see it coming, and with rerolling 1s to wound, it could do some real damage. It's a friendly-only strategy, for sure, but it's funny as hell.

There can be times where the Commander cannot target a worthwhile unit or for victory points you need to kill that unit on an object point outside the commanders range on the last turn. In which case it could be very powerful to trade away the commanders shots. It’s not something to do every single turn.