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 Kanluwen wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
We haven't had bikes for characters since 3rd.

I was at least hoping for Succubi to get Hellion or Bike options, if only because they fall under that purview.

Yea it would have been sweet I agree but we knew there were no new kits in this release so it was obviously not happening this go around.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
We haven't had bikes for characters since 3rd.

I was at least hoping for Succubi to get Hellion or Bike options, if only because they fall under that purview.

Yea it would have been sweet I agree but we knew there were no new kits in this release so it was obviously not happening this go around.

Honestly, it's just weird that since GK and Guard we haven't seen any conversion related ones.

Which one did guard get? I play guard and I can't even think of that.

It is strange though, the Grey Knight NDK GM with conversion corner article really was a silly move on GW's part. Everyone was used to the new standard and then they go and make an exception with one of the very first books to drop.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Which one did guard get? I play guard and I can't even think of that.

Ogryn Bodyguards! It was a way to make it so that you didn't feel shafted if you built Nork Deddog out of the plastic kit(since Ogryn were 3 models minimum in unit size and box size but anyone buying them to make Nork will end up with an understrength unit).

It is strange though, the Grey Knight NDK GM with conversion corner article really was a silly move on GW's part. Everyone was used to the new standard and then they go and make an exception with one of the very first books to drop.

It almost makes me wonder if maybe it's because they have kits ready to go further down the line for everybody else.

Well... Their faction focus kinda explained that the Archons have trust issues and need their own personal transports...

So go big in a Raider!

 Crimson wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Well just use a Transport slot that isn't being used? Not every single unit is gonna be in a Transport like Mandrakes for example. That's when you load up those HQ people and their retinue in a Venom or Raider, right?

AFAIK, a minimum unit size of all units is five, so you can't put HQ with any unit in a Venom, unless you burn a detachment and a command point for an understrength unit. You can fit them in a Raider, but then then the unit that goes with them loses the extra weapons unlocked by being ten elf strong (many Dark Eldar units work like that.)

Weren't Venoms 6 spots?

Either way, you can do a Raider then.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Weren't Venoms 6 spots?

Nope.

Either way, you can do a Raider then.

Yeah, sure. It is just a bit awkward that the army is designed so that the minimum unit size is 5 and character can't fit with that in the small transport, and the optimal unit size is ten and the character can't fit with that in the large transport. Not a huge deal, but combined with lack of bike or jump pack options for characters that many other armies have, it is a tad annoying.

The bigger issue for me is that since auras can't go through transports (in or out), our HQs are basically just a tax for battle-boat lists; while in footdar lists their auras at least work but you're also now risking your T3 HQ on the front-lines. Less of an issue with succubi since they want to be in the muck, but Archons really don't have the tools to survive outside of a skimmer.

I wouldn't go so far as to say ita game breaking for us, but anyone who thinks our HQs have any utility is deluding themselves.

How are you risking your HQ on the front lines when you have 6ppm Kabalite warriors to tank all the firepower?

 Galas wrote:
How are you risking your HQ on the front lines when you have 6ppm Kabalite warriors to tank all the firepower?

Hilarious

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I wouldn't go so far as to say ita game breaking for us, but anyone who thinks our HQs have any utility is deluding themselves.

Black Heart Kabal Archon + 3 Ravagers. Archon takes the relic to give re-roll wound rolls of 1 aura to nearby Ravagers. Archon also innately has a re-roll hit rolls of 1 aura. If the Archon is the Warlord, refunds all Command Points spent by both players on 6s. Yeah, so much for no utility
Expect to see that type of Spearhead detachment in a lot of Aeldari armies, mixed or pure.

How many of those auras work while he's embarked in a transport? How many of them effect units that are embarked within transports? At bare minimum you should read posts before replying to them.

Archon+ravagers castled up sounds plausible- at least he's far back enough to make sniping him out or assaulting challenging.

 Crimson wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Weren't Venoms 6 spots?

Nope.

Either way, you can do a Raider then.

Yeah, sure. It is just a bit awkward that the army is designed so that the minimum unit size is 5 and character can't fit with that in the small transport, and the optimal unit size is ten and the character can't fit with that in the large transport. Not a huge deal, but combined with lack of bike or jump pack options for characters that many other armies have, it is a tad annoying.

Dark Eldar units are bought in packs? Like. Can you have a squad of 9 kabalite warriors or only 5 or 10?

 Galas wrote:

Dark Eldar units are bought in packs? Like. Can you have a squad of 9 kabalite warriors or only 5 or 10?

You can have nine. But then they get only one special weapon and no heavy weapon, whereas a squad of ten can have two special weapons and a heavy weapon. That's pretty drastic difference in the firepower.

 Crimson wrote:

 Galas wrote:

Dark Eldar units are bought in packs? Like. Can you have a squad of 9 kabalite warriors or only 5 or 10?

You can have nine. But then they get only one special weapon and no heavy weapon, whereas a squad of ten can have two special weapons and a heavy weapon. That's pretty drastic difference in the firepower.

Hmmm... similar to Tacticals marines (But with one more special). All this time I thought eldar troops where bought in fixed sized packs. Thanks.

the_scotsman wrote:


which is why almost every transport in the game comes with an extra slot or two for sticking commanders in. You know, not many of them, but

Razorbacks wave serpents falcons repressors immolators trukks battlewagons chimeras land raiders stormwolves valkyries starweavers devilfish blackstars

so like, a couple. Give or take 85%.

Well, Chaos have access to none of those and a good chunk of that list never gets used sooo...they'll just have to deal with it like Chaos does?

 Galas wrote:

Hmmm... similar ot Tacticals marines (But with one more special).

Yep, except marines have Razorback, which is perfect for five marines and a character. So I just wanted the Venom's capacity to be bumbed to six, so the DE could do that as well. Again, not a huge deal, but still. Though it is kinda lame how none the characters of this supposedly fast hit and run army have no mobility options...

 Crimson wrote:

 Galas wrote:

Hmmm... similar ot Tacticals marines (But with one more special).

Yep, except maeines have Razorback, which is perfect for five marines and a character. So I just wanted the Venom's capacity to be bumbed to six, so the DE could do that as well. Again, not a huge deal, but still. Though it is kinda lame how none the characters of this supposedly fast hit and run army have no mobility options...

They have them, you just want them to have them in the way that allows you to have your cake and eat it.

You can take your ten man squads with upgrades, and then spend a CP and take a squad on the side with 4 dudes in it if you must. Or take your nine and make do with one special weapon. Seems as if the thing was designed with the intention of making you have to choose.

 Crimson wrote:

 Galas wrote:

Hmmm... similar ot Tacticals marines (But with one more special).

Yep, except marines have Razorback, which is perfect for five marines and a character. So I just wanted the Venom's capacity to be bumbed to six, so the DE could do that as well. Again, not a huge deal, but still. Though it is kinda lame how none the characters of this supposedly fast hit and run army have no mobility options...

Nobody is using the Razorbacks for that purpose though.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Nobody is using the Razorbacks for that purpose though.

Sure. But that is because marine characters can actually access jump packs, bikes and teleporting terminator armours in case they actually want to move. Marine characters can be way more mobile than the characters of supposed speed army.

To be honest until know I thought Razorbacks had only 5 places. I have been playing 9 months as a 5-man transport, and putting my librarian in a rhino with 5 company veterans in the Razorback, when my intention was for the librarian to buff the company veterans

I don't know why I just assumed it was a 5-man transport.

Forgive me if I missed it; Has there been any word about the webway portal?

 BlaxicanX wrote:
How many of those auras work while he's embarked in a transport? How many of them effect units that are embarked within transports? At bare minimum you should read posts before replying to them.

Archon+ravagers castled up sounds plausible- at least he's far back enough to make sniping him out or assaulting challenging.

At bare minimum you should understand that I only quoted your hyperbolic claim that Dark Eldar HQs have no utility, which is patently false, something which I disproved in kind.

Notice how I didn't disagree with the rest of your post?

Does it matter? Unlike previous editions, GW gave 8th the option to use understrengths units, if you really want to use quirky combinations of units and/or characters in transports.

Sunny Side Up wrote:Does it matter? Unlike previous editions, GW gave 8th the option to use understrengths units, if you really want to use quirky combinations of units and/or characters in transports.

Crimson wrote:

 Galas wrote:

Dark Eldar units are bought in packs? Like. Can you have a squad of 9 kabalite warriors or only 5 or 10?

You can have nine. But then they get only one special weapon and no heavy weapon, whereas a squad of ten can have two special weapons and a heavy weapon. That's pretty drastic difference in the firepower.

I feel like we're going in circles

if you're gonna run Archons up the board, they match best with The Court. That's 4 models. Fits great in a Venom
Wych special weapons are ok, but nothing amazing. Nine Wyches, one shardnet and a Succubi will fill a raider perfectly.
Haemonculi & grotesques will always work.

The only issue is that the vehicles can be targeted.

Succubi and haemonculi can go on foot. And an haemy plus 4 grots or 9 wracks is perfect on a raider.

Kabalites plus an HQ doesn't make any sense, all our HQs are close combat oriented, kabalites are a shooty unit and while embarked the archon couldn't even give the buff in the shooting phase.

The 9 dudes size can be bad on wyches though, but with a special weapon and an agoniser on a hekatrix they should be decent. Archons are good with the court (even in a venom) or incubi in a raider, and succubus can footslog as they're slower than vehicles but quite fast for being infantries and they can also get a drug for a better movement range. Like the archons they can be embarked in a raider with incubi as well. Haemys on foot also give +1T to the transports.

There's no real need of increasing the transport capacity of our transports. It would be cool and some improvement sure, but we don't really need it.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:


which is why almost every transport in the game comes with an extra slot or two for sticking commanders in. You know, not many of them, but

Razorbacks wave serpents falcons repressors immolators trukks battlewagons chimeras land raiders stormwolves valkyries starweavers devilfish blackstars

so like, a couple. Give or take 85%.

Well, Chaos have access to none of those and a good chunk of that list never gets used sooo...they'll just have to deal with it like Chaos does?

Conveniently, every chaos faction has a handy dandy mobility option for all their HQs.

Terminator armor deep strikes, Wings for daemon princes, bikes, jump packs, mounts...and if all else fails, land raiders have extra transport slots.

but yeah, theyr epretty much in the same situation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 davou wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Galas wrote:

Hmmm... similar ot Tacticals marines (But with one more special).

Yep, except maeines have Razorback, which is perfect for five marines and a character. So I just wanted the Venom's capacity to be bumbed to six, so the DE could do that as well. Again, not a huge deal, but still. Though it is kinda lame how none the characters of this supposedly fast hit and run army have no mobility options...

They have them, you just want them to have them in the way that allows you to have your cake and eat it.

You can take your ten man squads with upgrades, and then spend a CP and take a squad on the side with 4 dudes in it if you must. Or take your nine and make do with one special weapon. Seems as if the thing was designed with the intention of making you have to choose.

have our cake and eat it too

....like every other faction in the game gets to. sorry, exception - admech has no transports at all.

Sorry admech.

its fine though, admech is a totally un-clunky, fully functional faction despite that lack and it has never held them back, right?

the_scotsman wrote:


Conveniently, every chaos faction has a handy dandy mobility option for all their HQs.

Terminator armor deep strikes, Wings for daemon princes, bikes, jump packs, mounts...and if all else fails, land raiders have extra transport slots.

but yeah, theyr epretty much in the same situation.

{{snip}}

have our cake and eat it too

....like every other faction in the game gets to. sorry, exception - admech has no transports at all.

Sorry admech.

its fine though, admech is a totally un-clunky, fully functional faction despite that lack and it has never held them back, right?

-Tantalus (with anything you want in it)
-Raider with 9 dudes in it
-Raider with 5 dudes in it and assorted cahracters
-Venom with 4 dudes in it
-Venom with just the HQ in it
-Venom with the hq and other characters in it
-Webway deploy on foot
-Webway deploy Tantalus (with anything you want in it)
-Webway deploy Raider with 9 dudes in it
-Webway deploy Raider with 5 dudes in it and assorted cahracters
-Webway deploy Venom with 4 dudes in it
-Webway deploy Venom with just the HQ in it
-Webway deploy Venom with the hq and other characters in it


If you wanted to be able to terminator deep strike, then maybe you should have considered playing a space marine army?


Eddited : thanks Cinderspirit

I get the frustration as a fellow dark eldar player, but the comparisons are really lame. Most of the chaos stuff listed doesn't really support the argument either.

I mean we are comparing demon princes with wings now? Land raider? Those piles of garbage no one uses and even if they did were a direct comparison to the tantalus. Terminators? And then to state bikes and mounts, which were dropped and are hot trash that cannot gain legion traits... The only chaos faction to get a good mobility option outside jump packs is the disc for T-sons and I am not even going to dare compare that train wreck of a book (codex Tzaangor) to the sweet sauce we just received.

Edit: Again, it would be nice to get bikes/boards for succubi, but with no new models it was never happening. I think GW gets the fact they need to flesh out some stuff in their back log, but they have way too much on their plate ATM. Maybe next time.