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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Lance845 wrote:
 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 Lance845 wrote:

Those panels are drawn that way because the truth is society finds those kind of depictions acceptable and they DON"T find the reverse (men depicted that way) acceptable. Those pictures I post are examples of a symptom of the actual issue that the vast majority of the time is not malicious, it's thoughtless. But thoughtless behavior still causes damage. We can either recognize the thoughtless behaviour for what it is and be better or you can keep letting it cause damage.


Look, I'm going to be perfectly honest with you. And I'm going to be very calm, and very polite.

*deep breath*

If seeing a cartoon drawing of something causes you 'damage', then you need to stop. Something is fundamentally wrong with you. This is not a normal reaction from a healthy, well-adjusted, and functional adult. This is a serious issue and you need to seek a professional immediately.

It's a cartoon drawing.


Do you understand the word symptom? Or how about how societies function? Psychology on any level?

Uh do YOU? I've taken classes on this crap and work in the medical field (granted on the business/administrative side of things).

Reading a few articles online is a bit different than actual application of these things. That's why none of the psychologists or psychiatrists I have to interact with really do anything about this stuff being spewed.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






I don't understand why people are getting so heated here. It's toy soldiers and comics people, not life or death and certainly not reality.

Both male and female superheroes are incredibly exaggerated versions of a real person. If one is offensive, so is the other. I have never seen a dude as built as some of the male superheroes and I have never seen a woman with the figure of some of the female superheroes. They are both the "perfect" version of people. It is their entire role. They are heroes after all.

Not sure how this relates to the toy soldiers we play with?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 Lance845 wrote:

Those panels are drawn that way because the truth is society finds those kind of depictions acceptable and they DON"T find the reverse (men depicted that way) acceptable. Those pictures I post are examples of a symptom of the actual issue that the vast majority of the time is not malicious, it's thoughtless. But thoughtless behavior still causes damage. We can either recognize the thoughtless behaviour for what it is and be better or you can keep letting it cause damage.


Look, I'm going to be perfectly honest with you. And I'm going to be very calm, and very polite.

*deep breath*

If seeing a cartoon drawing of something causes you 'damage', then you need to stop. Something is fundamentally wrong with you. This is not a normal reaction from a healthy, well-adjusted, and functional adult. This is a serious issue and you need to seek a professional immediately.

It's a cartoon drawing.

Allow me to elaborate- you're saying that a cartoon drawing is causing damage to women. Not to men, but women.

Maybe you shouldn't be treating women like unhinged children that need to be shielded from tiddy drawings. It's kind of demeaning.

^ This /Thread
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority





 Lance845 wrote:
Nope, I am unwilling to do the work needed to answer those questions for you. By all means, go educate yourself... or don't! It doesn't actually matter to me and I am okay with you being wrong.


You know, the funny thing is... you can just say, "I dislike these depictions, and I think I would enjoy it better if it changed". That's a PERFECTLY reasonable statement. Doesn't mean people are going to agree with it, but it's a fair statement. You don't have to dress it up as some big societal cancer that's harming women. If you think these things are 'harming' women, you're not spending much time talking to women (or at least, sane ones).

And it figures, you can provide nothing to substantiate your claim. You made the claim, the burden of proof is on you. I will assume that your statement means you have no foundation for your beliefs, and it's fine.

I'm very much okay with you being intellectually dishonest. From the moment our discussion began, I sort of expected it. No surprises.


Mob Rule is not a rule. 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Esasb wrote:
While this bs topic is still active, why not discuss something really "problematic" gun control in the 40k universe.


Yes. There's not enough dakka. Until even rippers can own an Ak47, the lack of firearms will be a constant problem in the setting.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/03 18:45:21


What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Hyperspace

The disease is, in my opinion, culturally ingrained racism and sexism. Thankfully, it’s been getting better, but because it is institutionalised instead of explicit, people are now able to say “WE SOLVED THE PROBLEM THERE’S NO MORE RACISM STOP SCREAMING SJeWS”. This effect has caused a stall in resolving the issue, and needs to be resolved.

The true disease, as always, is sociopathy/antisocial personality disorder. I can’t believe early humanity let that particular disease spread, as it’s causing pretty much every social and economic issue right now, and curing it is medicinally impossible.

I’d say the true disease is the dehumanising capitalist system, but honestly that’s only being kept alive by sociopathic CEOs and politicians. As long as they keep throwing up social issues to keep the lower class divided, they have nothing to fear from an organized resistance.




Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




pismakron wrote:
 Tokhuah wrote:
Gender is less an issue than race in 40K. The Imperium represents culturally insulated racism paralleling the current middle America "backwards bubble" that is resisting the evolutionary cultural path of all other first world nations and regions. The Imperium is built on the same nationalism mingled with religious fanaticism. Simply put: the imperialistic humans call everything not them the "X" word and stand behind nationalist paradigms to justify imposing their fascist will over any that oppose them. I mean, the same root word that is in Xenophobe is also in the bigoted word the Imperium uses for alien races, so how could it be more obvious short of unbridled hate speech?


So? The Imperium is clearly depicted as a fascist state driven by fanaticism, militancy and complete disregard for the value of individual lives. And I really don't see the issue. It is fiction afterall.

Exactly. All my Imperium models are helmeted for a reason, with only commanders getting a slightly special amount of treatment (they get a different helmet!).

Really nobody would care if Sisters got plastic models. That's the only reason anybody wants female Marines. They think they'll get the same treatment and keep getting releases.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Savage Khorne Berserker Biker





@Verviedi: Is that a trolling response, or serious?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/03 18:47:00


 
   
Made in us
Damsel of the Lady




 Formosa wrote:
 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 Lance845 wrote:

Those panels are drawn that way because the truth is society finds those kind of depictions acceptable and they DON"T find the reverse (men depicted that way) acceptable. Those pictures I post are examples of a symptom of the actual issue that the vast majority of the time is not malicious, it's thoughtless. But thoughtless behavior still causes damage. We can either recognize the thoughtless behaviour for what it is and be better or you can keep letting it cause damage.


Look, I'm going to be perfectly honest with you. And I'm going to be very calm, and very polite.

*deep breath*

If seeing a cartoon drawing of something causes you 'damage', then you need to stop. Something is fundamentally wrong with you. This is not a normal reaction from a healthy, well-adjusted, and functional adult. This is a serious issue and you need to seek a professional immediately.

It's a cartoon drawing.


He also finds it ok for men to be oversexualised in comics but finds it wrong for woman to be, double standards right there.


Having just about maxed gender studies in college this is a very frequent bit of hypocrisy that appears. He's not alone, but that doesn't make it right either.

The most important thing is to let authors be true to their story and setting. If that offends you, don't read it. I'm sure lots of people would be offended by vivid Holocaust stories or smut, doesn't mean there's a problem with them or a disease.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Verviedi wrote:
The disease is, in my opinion, culturally ingrained racism and sexism. Thankfully, it’s been getting better, but because it is institutionalised instead of explicit, people are now able to say “WE SOLVED THE PROBLEM THERE’S NO MORE RACISM STOP SCREAMING SJeWS”. This effect has caused a stall in resolving the issue, and needs to be resolved.

The true disease, as always, is sociopathy/antisocial personality disorder. I can’t believe early humanity let that particular disease spread, as it’s causing pretty much every social and economic issue right now, and curing it is medicinally impossible.

I’d say the true disease is the dehumanising capitalist system, but honestly that’s only being kept alive by sociopathic CEOs and politicians. As long as they keep throwing up social issues to keep the lower class divided, they have nothing to fear from an organized resistance.



Boy, I think we'd need our own forum to go round and round on this one.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/03 18:48:20


 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority





 Verviedi wrote:
I’d say the true disease is the dehumanising capitalist system, but honestly that’s only being kept alive by sociopathic CEOs and politicians. As long as they keep throwing up social issues to keep the lower class divided, they have nothing to fear from an organized resistance.


You're on a forum dedicated to literally one of the most overpriced miniatures game on the market. Prices we pay willingly, mind you, and these prices are only at their current rate because of Capitalism.

You. On a forum. Dedicated to a game that sells one little 2 inch plastic miniature for $40.00, and Capitalism has failed.

I'm going to walk around for a moment and laugh about that one.

Mob Rule is not a rule. 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

Oh man we are reaching entropy levels here! Embrace for Mod Impact in 5,4, 3...!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/03 18:51:20


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority





 Galas wrote:
Oh man we are reaching entropy levels here! Brace for Mod Impact in 5,4, 3...!


Oh, those guys are at the pub or something right now.

They GOTTA be.

Mob Rule is not a rule. 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

I'm just amazed this lasted for 6 pages. That's like, 5 pages longer than it needed to be.

What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 Galas wrote:
Oh man we are reaching entropy levels here! Brace for Mod Impact in 5,4, 3...!


Oh, those guys are at the pub or something right now.

They GOTTA be.


They probably are, they have better things to do in weekends. It happens we don't

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/03 18:51:52


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

Nah on the whole the thread has been pretty polite all things considered, sure there are a couple of bad posts but this discussion does need to happen if for no other reason than people need to purge.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Hyperspace

Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:@Verviedi: Is that a trolling response, or serious?

If I wanted to troll, I’d be talking about FEMA camps and chemtrails. Although I admit I went off on a tangent and addressed societal issues in general instead of anything that actually pertained to 40k whatsoever.

Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 Verviedi wrote:
I’d say the true disease is the dehumanising capitalist system, but honestly that’s only being kept alive by sociopathic CEOs and politicians. As long as they keep throwing up social issues to keep the lower class divided, they have nothing to fear from an organized resistance.


You're on a forum dedicated to literally one of the most overpriced miniatures game on the market. Prices we pay willingly, mind you, and these prices are only at their current rate because of Capitalism.

You. On a forum. Dedicated to a game that sells one little 2 inch plastic miniature for $40.00, and Capitalism has failed.

I'm going to walk around for a moment and laugh about that one.

That has absolutely nothing to do what I said, but OK, go do that.

(I am guilty of going off topic in that post, the reason you’re laughing is probably because I failed to tie that post to the hobby at all (which to be fair, it is irrelevant to the hobby)).

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/02/03 18:57:19




Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
 
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought




San Jose, CA

i wouldnt even give a fuc#k about this topic cuz giving is free and my fu#ks cost.

If you want to discuss this you need to at least understand the point of view for the opposing argument.

If your argument (in general, not just this topic) cannot withstand public discourse without degenerating into labeling/name calling/ignoring, then your argument is baseless in it's foundation.

I could care less if you want your plastic toy soldiers to be female. I have no problem with any faction being changed by the player to include females/males. they're yours to do with as you wish. it would be nice if GW made female parts for guard etc.

I just wish the inclusion at all costs vs don't change my game people need to get off their high horse and understand that it's ok to have differing opinions. While at the same time there needs to be differentiation otherwise everybody's the same and we should all just play with chunks of plastic with no difference in appearance and the same rules.

As a wise(sic) pig named Napoleon said "everybody's equal, just some more than others."
   
Made in is
Angered Reaver Arena Champion





Those arguing that men are oversexualized in comic are obviously not women as these masculine representations are almost all the time power fantasies for men. Unless you want to argue that heterosexual men know what women want - insert Mel Gibson movie joke -.

Women in comics have historically been drawn for heterosexual men which is why they are oversexualized and put into impossible poses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozf2hwEOWHE

If you want to see how something is oversexualized for certain groups of gay men I suggest checking out the works of Tom of Finland. If you really want to draw parallels between Tom's work and hypermuscular men in comics then there is really nothing to discuss. Discussion without nuance is no discussion at all.

I am seriously shaking my head at the idea that some guys are arguing that I should find Jim Lee's Batman sexualized and attractive. There is literally nothing attractive about that Batman or Batman in general.

   
Made in us
Posts with Authority





 Galas wrote:
They probably are, they have better things to do in weekends. It happens we don't


Hey, I got laundry to do. So there's that.

Look, fellas- I'll be honest with you. I'm kinda hostile toward this Feminist 40k thing, mainly because everywhere it rears its head- it causes problems. I want women gaming, men gaming, and it's just easier to say "I want people gaming that care about the game".

I don't want to turn gaming into a segue into identity politics or sociology. I come from a background where your skin color and gender were meaningless- we could be polar opposites, but we put things aside to enjoy life and have fun together.

Feminist 40k, I believe, does not want that. They want to push an ideology onto persons they believe are susceptible, and use the stereotypical 'weakness' of gamers to bully their way around in the community.

Maybe it's just me, but the overwhelming majority of stuff I see from these folks isn't about gaming, it's about their ideology and how it relates to the game. It's kind of a sneaky thing I dislike from evangelists that try to segue their faith into your interests to con you into joining them. Youth minister Bill doesn't really care about Metal, he's only relating Christian Metal to you to get you to come to church.

It makes me very, very uneasy. It's cult-like, in so many ways. That's something I take real issues with.

If these people are here to enjoy the game, IDGAF what they believe. If we got differences, we can sort them out on the table. Or not play together. Either works for me.

But as a member of communities (yes, more than one), I really don't like people dragging this SocJus/Marxist/RadiFem theory stuff into it to rile people up, especially when it's difficult for me to see where these people are truly invested in the hobby.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/03 19:01:10


Mob Rule is not a rule. 
   
Made in us
Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets





 Eldarsif wrote:
Those arguing that men are oversexualized in comic are obviously not women as these masculine representations are almost all the time power fantasies for men. Unless you want to argue that heterosexual men know what women want - insert Mel Gibson movie joke -.

Women in comics have historically been drawn for heterosexual men which is why they are oversexualized and put into impossible poses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozf2hwEOWHE

If you want to see how something is oversexualized for certain groups of gay men I suggest checking out the works of Tom of Finland. If you really want to draw parallels between Tom's work and hypermuscular men in comics then there is really nothing to discuss. Discussion without nuance is no discussion at all.

I am seriously shaking my head at the idea that some guys are arguing that I should find Jim Lee's Batman sexualized and attractive. There is literally nothing attractive about that Batman or Batman in general.


And yet this seems to be what's selling for women when it comes to their fantasies.
Spoiler:
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

Who doesn't want to be embraced by a stallion like those and feel protected and loved and have crazy sex and live crazy adventures of exploration and forbidden desire, instead of my boring middle-class wife/mother life?

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

 Eldarsif wrote:
Those arguing that men are oversexualized in comic are obviously not women as these masculine representations are almost all the time power fantasies for men. Unless you want to argue that heterosexual men know what women want - insert Mel Gibson movie joke -.

Women in comics have historically been drawn for heterosexual men which is why they are oversexualized and put into impossible poses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozf2hwEOWHE

If you want to see how something is oversexualized for certain groups of gay men I suggest checking out the works of Tom of Finland. If you really want to draw parallels between Tom's work and hypermuscular men in comics then there is really nothing to discuss. Discussion without nuance is no discussion at all.

I am seriously shaking my head at the idea that some guys are arguing that I should find Jim Lee's Batman sexualized and attractive. There is literally nothing attractive about that Batman or Batman in general.



And now you are guilty of the same old thing as others, assuming who finds what sexy, YOU dont find batman sexy, woman do, not all woman, but some do.

And yes the same old tired "power fantasy" trope comes out to play, but again, double standards are kicking in, how is wonder woman not a power fantasy but superman is?

My sister loves how "sexy and strong" wonder woman is, her words, My older Niece loves catwoman and thinks someone that "badass" wouldnt give a crap and would use how she looks as a weapon (again, her take on it).

So shake your head all you like, because you are making the generalisations here AND assuming you know what woman want and how they think, let alone what anyone finds "sexy"

If I have misunderstood what you are saying, I apologise in advance.
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority





 Galas wrote:
Who doesn't want to be embraced by a stallion like those and feel protected and loved and have crazy sex and live crazy adventures of exploration and forbidden desire, instead of my boring middle-class wife/mother life?


Those books have often used the words 'turgid pillar', I want you to know this.

TURGID

PILLAR

Mob Rule is not a rule. 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 Galas wrote:
Who doesn't want to be embraced by a stallion like those and feel protected and loved and have crazy sex and live crazy adventures of exploration and forbidden desire, instead of my boring middle-class wife/mother life?


Those books have often used the words 'turgid pillar', I want you to know this.

TURGID

PILLAR


The most important point here is... how do you know that?

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 Galas wrote:
Who doesn't want to be embraced by a stallion like those and feel protected and loved and have crazy sex and live crazy adventures of exploration and forbidden desire, instead of my boring middle-class wife/mother life?


Those books have often used the words 'turgid pillar', I want you to know this.

TURGID

PILLAR


That is hilarious.
Also, I really want those two words to be in the Emperor's Children codex.
Turgid Pillar of Slaanesh sounds like a wonderful name for a codex specific terrain piece.

What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority





 Galas wrote:
The most important point here is... how do you know that?


I'm just saying that people donate books when you're deployed and certain magazines were illegal there...

So you settle for what you can get.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Turgid Pillar of Slaanesh sounds like a wonderful name for a codex specific terrain piece.


Yeah, I saw something in my mom's closet that would be great for converting!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/03 19:08:35


Mob Rule is not a rule. 
   
Made in us
Damsel of the Lady




 Eldarsif wrote:
I am seriously shaking my head at the idea that some guys are arguing that I should find Jim Lee's Batman sexualized and attractive. There is literally nothing attractive about that Batman or Batman in general.



About two dozen women I knew in college would disagree.
   
Made in us
Wicked Warp Spider





Heroic superheroes, women and men, are depicted in heroic proportions.
Such heroic proportions and impossible standards of beauty is what is expected from a superior being.
Not that this cannot lead to interesting subversions, or even deconstructions; after all, one of the best superhero comics ever made is Watchmen.

Compare the pose of males and females is a false equivalence in most cases, because both ere eroticized. But generally speaking, an eroticized female will not have the same pose of a male because the target and the expectations are different.
Also the body parts. Since we are apes, we all like asses, but say shoulders are more important on a man so the pose will be different.

Now people could raise these points:
(I) People could have different tastes like very muscular and assertive women or skinny and delicate males - that's true but I guess the authors go for the expected majority
(II) I am ignoring self insertion - males want powerful males to self-insert and beautiful women to dominate - for what I have seen personally and in geek culture in general, women prefer attractive and powerful heroines as well. I remember very well the descriptions of the female characters of my female DnD players back then. Beautiful, generally quite skinny, amazonian beauties the melee characters.
The only complain I ever heard is the disparity in treatment, like in MMORPG armor that covers the full male body but is skimpy on females. Which is a very reasonable complain IMHO.
Nonetheless what I see generally reported (this is anecdoctal so I don't want to make a point out of it) is the context. Is ok being in trouble, but not being always the damsel in distress. Is ok being in skimpy clothing, if makes sense in the setting (like, say, in Conan's world).

Generic characters disappearing? Elite units of your army losing options and customizations? No longer finding that motivation to convert?
Your army could suffer Post-Chapterhouse Stress Disorder (PCSD)! If you think that your army is suffering one or more of the aforementioned symptoms, call us at 789-666-1982 for a quick diagnosis! 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Hyperspace

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 Galas wrote:
They probably are, they have better things to do in weekends. It happens we don't


Hey, I got laundry to do. So there's that.

Look, fellas- I'll be honest with you. I'm kinda hostile toward this Feminist 40k thing, mainly because everywhere it rears its head- it causes problems. I want women gaming, men gaming, and it's just easier to say "I want people gaming that care about the game".

I don't want to turn gaming into a segue into identity politics or sociology. I come from a background where your skin color and gender were meaningless- we could be polar opposites, but we put things aside to enjoy life and have fun together.

Feminist 40k, I believe, does not want that. They want to push an ideology onto persons they believe are susceptible, and use the stereotypical 'weakness' of gamers to bully their way around in the community.

Maybe it's just me, but the overwhelming majority of stuff I see from these folks isn't about gaming, it's about their ideology and how it relates to the game. It's kind of a sneaky thing I dislike from evangelists that try to segue their faith into your interests to con you into joining them. Youth minister Bill doesn't really care about Metal, he's only relating Christian Metal to you to get you to come to church.

It makes me very, very uneasy. It's cult-like, in so many ways. That's something I take real issues with.

If these people are here to enjoy the game, IDGAF what they believe. If we got differences, we can sort them out on the table. Or not play together. Either works for me.

But as a member of communities (yes, more than one), I really don't like people dragging this SocJus/Marxist/RadiFem theory stuff into it to rile people up, especially when it's difficult for me to see where these people are truly invested in the hobby.

You are, in general, correct. But you have to consider the precise nature of why people get so angry. They are, perhaps rightfully, angry because they feel discriminated against. You have to remember that not everybody grew up in an environment like you did. I’d say such environments are very rare. Institutionalised racism means that in many places, while things may seem that way, they truly aren’t, because of different social norms and effects.

There is also the “equality to the privileged feels like oppression” effect. As I’m going to say for the third time in this thread, The root of the problem is that people are so used to seeing an all-majority cast in a media form, that when they see gay characters, or black/asian/indian/whatever characters, they immediately decide that it’s “pandering”, instead of thinking critically and wondering what a woman sees when they look at that game. Imagine looking at a game and all of the characters are minorities, or gay, and you can’t identify with any of them. That’s what women and minorities see on a daily basis. You’re not being discriminated against, you’re just not getting 100% representation at the cost of all else anymore.

People do not need “punishment” for discrimination or dominance in the past. They simply need to learn that they are not the only people on earth.

Re: Social Justice/RadFem - those things are unfortunately necessary to get rid of the past traces of societal/institutional discrimination. No change has ever been made through moderate means - there has always been a radical pushing a more extreme version of the change. Any change requires two elements in order to be effective - an extreme element, and a moderate element. The extreme element exists to threaten the status quo so much that the moderate change has to occur, to avoid revolution/societal collapse/extreme annoyance.

Re: Marxist Theory - I know nothing about Marxist social theory, because I mostly almost only care about economic issues. I’m familiar with Marxist economic theory, never bothered even reading the TL;DR version of social theory.

Evangelicists can GTFO in general. I don’t use the game to recruit people into my ideology, neither should anyone else.



Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
 
   
Made in gb
Numberless Necron Warrior




Scotland, UK

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:


I don't want to turn gaming into a segue into identity politics or sociology.


Yeah, why can't people shut up and let me enjoy this game about a fascist society who enforces their xenophobic law through state-sponsored violence without bringing politics into it?
   
 
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