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Any live streams planned for this? I'll on holidays in Spain, nice to kick back with a Vino and tune in

Yes, how will we fuel the next rage filled thread?

We are streaming, yes! Just had confirmation that that is possible so we're trucking up the equipment. It won't be as fancy as LVO but we should have solid coverage!

Any issues with uploading your list to BCP, please ping their team and they will help you out.

See everyone there! Very excited for the event =)

@Ratius

Damn, I am jealous. Enjoy Spain!

Great rounds today. Really cool looking Custodes army fashioned after Brettonian Knights.

Here's my army taking out Tau



Here's the Custodes army:

They look like fantasy canons to me, but it also looks like 5 or so don't have crew, and the ones that do are tiny. I am guessing those are all mortar teams since that's the go to this edition, and I only count 8 duders in the three squads. Probably a guard CP farm battalion.

Thats a really cool idea for custodes actually, I like the idea of them having individual heraldry.

OK that's weird, I was responding to Johnny hell and it put my post before his?

Haha are they those gift sho toy cannons?

the knights who say Knee !

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Haha are they those gift sho toy cannons?

They're the old Empire cannons from Fantasy Battles. A little more work and maybe they would look okay.

Grats to don hooson!

Relatively no drama. I made a top 20 table and got run back down, but overall good time!

 Uriels_Flame wrote:

Heh. I remember bagging those hemlocks.

Filthy dual pirate hat damage rolls, right, U.F.? BCP dice FTW!





@all -
I should add that U.F. handed me my second defeat of the tourney.

Good game, sir.

So lucky... great game!

Reese... I saw Chess clocks used on your top table during the Twitch feed. Did all tables use them ? If so what were the results in regards to game rounds average ?

Ah yeah. They said during the stream they would compile the data after the tournament.
I would love to hear what the conclusions were when they get around to doing it.

 Ordana wrote:
Ah yeah. They said during the stream they would compile the data after the tournament.
I would love to hear what the conclusions were when they get around to doing it.

Imma leave this here:

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2018/07/30/chapter-tactics-76-going-over-our-bao-performances-and-where-do-knights-belong-in-the-meta/

On the plus side it seems we finally had a major tournament without major drama.

 Ordana wrote:
Ah yeah. They said during the stream they would compile the data after the tournament.
I would love to hear what the conclusions were when they get around to doing it.

Players wrote down their final turns on the player packet, and we gave them to Reece to compile. I'm totally guessing outtta my behind, but I think that'd take one person a day to crunch, maybe another day to really eyeball and analyze. But it might be few days since they're going to pack up, drive home and all that.

Keep in mind, many players might not have included things like concessions & tablings. I tried to make it clear on mine, which if you all want to know:
Round 1 - I got tabled on 3. A two Y'vahra list I mishandled (bungled, fumbled, derp!)
Round 2 - I tabled the guy by 5.
Round 3 - Turn 5 time
Round 4 - Turn 6 finished with some time left. But we started 20 minutes early, my opponent and I. He had 20 seconds left on his clock and then I got to compete my Turn 6.
Round 5 - Turn 5 time
Round 6 - Turn 6 finished with some time left.

I used the chess clock in all 6 games. I used a phone app for the first 2.
Then I realized one could borrow a chess clock from FLG. I used one of those for the rest of the games. One opponent didn't use it, and I was happy to switch times appropriately.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ChargerIIC wrote:
On the plus side it seems we finally had a major tournament without major drama.

You are correct, sir.

Yeah, it was a fun, smooth running event. Started on time and each round was on time, too. Awards were about 15 minutes late but not a big deal.

Had some absolutely great games on stream, too!

Thanks a million to everyone that came, we had a super fun time and it was awesome to hang with our friends from the bay, some of whom have been out of the hobby for years.

Big congratz to Don Hooson winning with a very cool list, to Israel Sanchez for best appearance and Ben Vaughn for Renaissance Person!

Really funny to see a 10-man group of terminators take an event as big as this one. I kinda already knew that Death Guard had the best terminators but I never would have dreamed they were "win a major" good. I guess that's why I don't win tournaments!

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Really funny to see a 10-man group of terminators take an event as big as this one. I kinda already knew that Death Guard had the best terminators but I never would have dreamed they were "win a major" good. I guess that's why I don't win tournaments!

Yes, the Renegade Knights played no part...

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Really funny to see a 10-man group of terminators take an event as big as this one. I kinda already knew that Death Guard had the best terminators but I never would have dreamed they were "win a major" good. I guess that's why I don't win tournaments!

Yes, the Renegade Knights played no part...

Yes yes, the Renegade Knight is so broken that taking just one of them means you can fill the rest of your points with worthless fodder and still win the BAO. That's definitely how this works.

Its not the renegade knight itself but the durability of his list overral. Reposting my opinion from FLG: Knight heavy lists are super powerful this edition. Add to that how powerful feel no pain based high toughness armies are, and you have a top tier power list. I was pretty surprised that Chaos got a knight upgrade and that they could take the new ones also. For people scratching their heads at the Death Guard terminators: they are way more powerful than most people realize. T5 with a 2+ 4++ and fnp. Add to that A stratagem called cloud of flies and you will never be able to target them for only 1 CP in Hoosens list. The bub axes make them str 5 -2, the 2 flails get d3 attacks at +2 str at -2 for 2 each and each model potentially attacks 6 times and each damage of 2 carries over to other models so potentially can kill 12 models each flail against hordes. Add to that his daemon prince who allows friendly death guard within 7″ to reroll all wound rolls, The daemon prince can either miasma them for -1 to hit, blades of put to add 1 to wound rolls and 7+ deal mortal wound in addition to regular damage, or put vitality to add 1 to str and t making. Add to that he can switch between those powers for 1 cp, and can VOLTW them for +1 to wound.

So yeah, renegade knight is powerful but against any threat non drukhari you arent going to touch a single terminator outside combat.

Fun year, we got most of the team this year. 2 of ours even won best of faction awards.
I went 4-2 this year, with my first two games being wins, which in GTs I consider impressive.
I played clocks twice, really really good. No one slow played. I do not like the fact that if I chose not to attack, my opponent can just remove the model. With tau I tend to not because it's useless, but I was forced to, slowing the game down.

 Defeatmyarmy wrote:
Its not the renegade knight itself but the durability of his list overral. Reposting my opinion from FLG: Knight heavy lists are super powerful this edition. Add to that how powerful feel no pain based high toughness armies are, and you have a top tier power list. I was pretty surprised that Chaos got a knight upgrade and that they could take the new ones also. For people scratching their heads at the Death Guard terminators: they are way more powerful than most people realize. T5 with a 2+ 4++ and fnp. Add to that A stratagem called cloud of flies and you will never be able to target them for only 1 CP in Hoosens list. The bub axes make them str 5 -2, the 2 flails get d3 attacks at +2 str at -2 for 2 each and each model potentially attacks 6 times and each damage of 2 carries over to other models so potentially can kill 12 models each flail against hordes. Add to that his daemon prince who allows friendly death guard within 7″ to reroll all wound rolls, The daemon prince can either miasma them for -1 to hit, blades of put to add 1 to wound rolls and 7+ deal mortal wound in addition to regular damage, or put vitality to add 1 to str and t making. Add to that he can switch between those powers for 1 cp, and can VOLTW them for +1 to wound.

So yeah, renegade knight is powerful but against any threat non drukhari you arent going to touch a single terminator outside combat.

considering how he was using them (DS in enemy backfield mostly) i doubt you can use cloud of flies. Btw i agree i played large blobs of BL and they are pretty durable.

Don had said that apart form the last game, the Termies were his best unit in the other 5 games.

The Clocks were hilariously anti-climatic after all the debate. We only used them on the top tables and that is where they were needed. We were expecting to have a million questions with them, etc. but it was like almost nothing had changed, lol. The games just went on as normal but many more of them finished and no one was claiming slow play.

The average game with a clock, the clock wasn't needed as the players finished but what they all said was that they were glad to have it to keep things on track and moving along.

In the VERY few games were the clock mattered it was because one of the players really was eating up dramatically more time than their opponent but there was zero room to debate who was playing slowly as the evidence was right there. We had no reports of slow play at top tables which has never hapenned before. The only complaints of slow play came from tables without a clock.

My take on it is this: you do not need clocks to play competitive 40k. However, they are a tremendously useful tool--particularly on top tables--to simply keep the games moving along and ensure not only that more games finish but also to psychologically give an accurate feedback mechanism to the players so they can pace themselves appropriately to finish the game. It also shuts down intentional slow play completely. Every player on the higher tables I spoke to said they appreciated having them. It also made the games MUCH better to watch! The stream audiance loved them as it gave them a point of reference for where the game was at, who was playing quicker, etc.

As a TO it was awesome as I could walk around checking the clocks and at a glance see if there was a problem table and address it before it become a big emotional confrontation. It solved issues before they became issues.

I think going forward we'll just leave them optional as 40k doesn't inherently use clocks. But, for high level competitive play use them at our events to keep things on track and to offer them for tables where players are going slow or that request them as it takes away that need for confrontation at the table to get someone to speed up or the sense of being cheated (whether accurate or not) when one player perceives that their opponent is not using up a fair amount of time.

TLDR: basically they're an awesome tool for getting games to finish, to alert TO's to problem tables and to avoid players feeling bad about a game.

 Reecius wrote:
Don had said that apart form the last game, the Termies were his best unit in the other 5 games.

The Clocks were hilariously anti-climatic after all the debate. We only used them on the top tables and that is where they were needed. We were expecting to have a million questions with them, etc. but it was like almost nothing had changed, lol. The games just went on as normal but many more of them finished and no one was claiming slow play.

The average game with a clock, the clock wasn't needed as the players finished but what they all said was that they were glad to have it to keep things on track and moving along.

In the VERY few games were the clock mattered it was because one of the players really was eating up dramatically more time than their opponent but there was zero room to debate who was playing slowly as the evidence was right there. We had no reports of slow play at top tables which has never hapenned before. The only complaints of slow play came from tables without a clock.

My take on it is this: you do not need clocks to play competitive 40k. However, they are a tremendously useful tool--particularly on top tables--to simply keep the games moving along and ensure not only that more games finish but also to psychologically give an accurate feedback mechanism to the players so they can pace themselves appropriately to finish the game. It also shuts down intentional slow play completely. Every player on the higher tables I spoke to said they appreciated having them. It also made the games MUCH better to watch! The stream audiance loved them as it gave them a point of reference for where the game was at, who was playing quicker, etc.

As a TO it was awesome as I could walk around checking the clocks and at a glance see if there was a problem table and address it before it become a big emotional confrontation. It solved issues before they became issues.

I think going forward we'll just leave them optional as 40k doesn't inherently use clocks. But, for high level competitive play use them at our events to keep things on track and to offer them for tables where players are going slow or that request them as it takes away that need for confrontation at the table to get someone to speed up or the sense of being cheated (whether accurate or not) when one player perceives that their opponent is not using up a fair amount of time.

TLDR: basically they're an awesome tool for getting games to finish, to alert TO's to problem tables and to avoid players feeling bad about a game.

Thanks for stepping up and taking the lead on Chess Clocks. I think they are the best way to solve a lot of issues like the ones posted here and it looks like they are working as intended.

Also, love your guy's weekly signals from the front line. Keep up all the great work

Thanks and glad you enjoy the show =)

That is an awesome result with the clocks, and thanks for posting your thoughts on them!

 Reecius wrote:
Don had said that apart form the last game, the Termies were his best unit in the other 5 games.

The Clocks were hilariously anti-climatic after all the debate. We only used them on the top tables and that is where they were needed. We were expecting to have a million questions with them, etc. but it was like almost nothing had changed, lol. The games just went on as normal but many more of them finished and no one was claiming slow play.

The average game with a clock, the clock wasn't needed as the players finished but what they all said was that they were glad to have it to keep things on track and moving along.

In the VERY few games were the clock mattered it was because one of the players really was eating up dramatically more time than their opponent but there was zero room to debate who was playing slowly as the evidence was right there. We had no reports of slow play at top tables which has never hapenned before. The only complaints of slow play came from tables without a clock.

My take on it is this: you do not need clocks to play competitive 40k. However, they are a tremendously useful tool--particularly on top tables--to simply keep the games moving along and ensure not only that more games finish but also to psychologically give an accurate feedback mechanism to the players so they can pace themselves appropriately to finish the game. It also shuts down intentional slow play completely. Every player on the higher tables I spoke to said they appreciated having them. It also made the games MUCH better to watch! The stream audiance loved them as it gave them a point of reference for where the game was at, who was playing quicker, etc.

As a TO it was awesome as I could walk around checking the clocks and at a glance see if there was a problem table and address it before it become a big emotional confrontation. It solved issues before they became issues.

I think going forward we'll just leave them optional as 40k doesn't inherently use clocks. But, for high level competitive play use them at our events to keep things on track and to offer them for tables where players are going slow or that request them as it takes away that need for confrontation at the table to get someone to speed up or the sense of being cheated (whether accurate or not) when one player perceives that their opponent is not using up a fair amount of time.

TLDR: basically they're an awesome tool for getting games to finish, to alert TO's to problem tables and to avoid players feeling bad about a game.

Great news Reece..

I really like the implementation of the clock on the top tables (btw.. just the top 2 players or was it top 10 ?)

was wondering how and if you guys implemented them on the lower tables ? did you leave the option open to put a clock down on a table that looked like it was going slow..or did you only do it at the request of one player ?

- going further do you see the need for adding a rule that basically allows for TO implementation of the chess clock on a lower table if the need arises ?

They had enough for anyone to really use them if they wanted.

First game I only got through Turn 3, so I went to it with the other 5 games and finished all of them.

Overall - again a really good turn out and tourney.

Reecius congrats to you and your wonderful team on running a drama free GT... WELL DONE!

Exalt.