"During" versus "at the end of" the phase

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**ian**

No you havent addressed anything

When does the movement phase end ?

When does the battle round end ?

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and at what point is it the " at the end of"

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And just because somthing happens one after another does not mean that they have no end point

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ian wrote:
it would appear because my post have been split up during this debate It would be helpful for some if I summarised which I will do now

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Firstly, I am trying to define what “at the end of “means by using the only 2 examples I can find.

I think it is agreed that using the English definition of “end of” is inconclusive due to it meaning different things
The discussion about if “at the end of the movement phase” stratagem and that trigger still being part of the movement phase can hopefully be resolved by these 2 examples

This argument is based on the notion that the end of a phase, turn and battle round is triggered by the next action happening.

So, the movement phase ends by the psychic phase starting, the turn ends by the next players turn beginning, and the battle round ends by the first player starting their turn.
Or another way using the same logic a battle round starts by the first player picking a unit to move. so, in all these situations we are during a phase

Strategic discipline
The same stratagem cannot be used by the same player more than once during any single phase. This does not affect stratagems that are not used during a phase, such as those used ‘before the battle begins’ or ‘at the end of a battle round’

How does this fit in with the notion above? Because if I am the second player it’s still my moral phase until my opponent starts their movement phase.
The only conclusion is that the trigger “at the end of a battle round” makes it so the rules do not consider it to be a phase anymore. So I can use multiple stratagems

Sequencing
While playing Warhammer 40,000. You’ll occasionally find that two or more rules are to be resolved at the same time – normally ‘ at the start of the movement phase’ or ‘before the battle begins’. When this happens during the game , the player whose turn it is chooses the order. If these things occur before or after the game. Or at the start or end of a battle round, the players roll off and the winner decides in what order the rules are resolved
Firstly, this tells us that when we are in a players turn that they decided the order of things. It also tells us that before or after the game we have to roll off meaning it’s not a players turn.
it also tells us that at the end of a battle round we have to roll off meaning its not a players turn.

How does this fit in with the notion above? Because if I am the second player it’s still my moral phase until my opponent starts their movement phase, so its still my turn.
The only conclusion is that the trigger “at the end of a battle round” makes it so the rules do not consider it to be a players turn anymore. So we have to roll off

So there are two conclusions either

We have to always consider that a phase is happening once the battle round has begun, and “at the end of “ works like a trigger so you are no longer in what its referring too.

Or

We have to consider that there are points in the game where a phase/ turn isn’t happening. to give an example if we where teaching somebody to play we would say.
“this is the end of my turn , now it’s the end of the battle round so its not considered a phase or a players turn if you have any stratagems to play and now we move onto your turn.”

I am not saying this has to be declared but it has to be conveyed some how because we know that’s true from the examples.

I hope I have laid out my reasoning in the clearest way possible.

If anybody has another explanation of how a battle round plays and how we determine when its considered the end of somthing ie is it still during is it after that would be brilliant

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Just to be clear i dont think that there is a clear way to resovle which is why i am trying to find as many was as possible to view it

**JakeSiren**

ian wrote:
No you havent addressed anything

If you say so. Although many of the questions you ask below are clearly answered in what I said.

ian wrote:
When does the movement phase end ?

The movement phase finishes when both players declare that they have no further actions to complete in the phase and any "at the end of the movement phase" actions have been completed.

ian wrote:
When does the battle round end ?

The battle round finishes after both players have completed their turns and any "at the end of the battle round" actions are completed.

ian wrote:
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and at what point is it the " at the end of"

"at the end of" occurs at the end of. This is a basic phrase in English. I'm not sure what answer you were expecting.

ian wrote:
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And just because somthing happens one after another does not mean that they have no end point

Correct, I never asserted they didn't have an end point.

**ian**

So your saying that at the end of the movement phase is happening during the movement phase because it hasnt ended yet because you have to complete that action before the physic phase starts

Same with battle round

End of can mean before or after the event and both is basic english .

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You seem to be inculding the end of event as part of the event ie it has to happen before its the psychic phase

Can you please be specific as to when the end of is occuring

**JakeSiren**

ian wrote:
End of can mean before or after the event and both is basic english .

I just double checked some dictionaries to make sure, but End is never used for after.

**ian**

If you look back you can see examples of this ,

But it sounds like you beleave that it happens during if that is the case than if you look at my big post it shows how in both examples at the end of is used as a trigger to mean not during the event

**JakeSiren**

ian wrote:
If you look back you can see examples of this ,

I don't wish to wade through 180+ posts. Care to provide an example with correct usage?

ian wrote:
But it sounds like you beleave that it happens during if that is the case than if you look at my big post it shows how in both examples at the end of is used as a trigger to mean not during the event

Your entire big post was based off an incorrect notion. You have failed to back up "the notion that the end of a phase, turn and battle round is triggered by the next action happening" with evidence. Therefore any conclusions contained within can not be relied upon with any accuracy.

The rules are clear that phases are in a series. You must complete phase A before you can move onto phase B. If something is outside of phase A then it is not a part of phase A. You are trying to claim that a thing outside of a phase is a part of the phase with your usage of "end" to mean after. If something is after an event then it is no longer a part of it.

**Stux**

Sorry if this has been referenced already and I missed it, but there is clear evidence it can be in a battle round but not be in a player's turn (and therefore not be during any phase either).

The evidence is the wording of the Strike From The Shadows stratagem, which causes something to happen at the beginning of the first Battle Round but before the first player's turn.

https://spikeybits.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Raven-Guard-Stratagem.jpg

**ian**

Firstly i am providing the 2 emerging ways to look at the situation. I actually started with the notion that there points inbetween things .

At the end of his speach the crowd clapped.
Is an example

All series means is it happens one fter the other it dosnt tell us what happens inbetween

You have also to prove the notion that things do not happen imediatly with reference to evidence

Series just means jn order it does not help with timing

So am i right in thinking that you agree with my second conclusion ? Where we are left with just the defination of end of which isnt clear.

I have noted the other stratagems that happen inbetween but there specify both ends of it. End of is just one part

**Rotborn**

GW only has to answer one question to resolve this whole discussion:

Do reinforcements occur in the movement phase?

If they don’t want Cloud of Flies to affect reinforcements on the turn they arrive, one of two things needs to happen:

1. Errata the stratagem to read, “at the start of...”,
Or,
2. FAQ that reinforcements occur outside of the movement phase.

**PoorGravitasHandling**

Rotborn wrote:
GW only has to answer one question to resolve this whole discussion:

Do reinforcements occur in the movement phase?

Yes, as per the BRB. Usually with "at the end of" specifying that it is the last thing (or set of "end of" things) that happen.

Rotborn wrote:

If they don’t want Cloud of Flies to affect reinforcements on the turn they arrive, one of two things needs to happen:

1. Errata the stratagem to read, “at the start of...”,
Or,
2. FAQ that reinforcements occur outside of the movement phase.

Or we could do things that must happen during the movement phase before things that must happen at the end of the movement phase and then this isn't an issue.

Once again, if you're doing something after completing an "end of movement phase" action then it really wasn't the end of the movement phase and you couldn't have deployed those reinforcements.

**ian**

Hopefully the march faq will answer some questions ,i would like them to clarify what they want "at the end of " to mean

**Rotborn**

PoorGravitasHandling wrote:
Rotborn wrote:
GW only has to answer one question to resolve this whole discussion:

Do reinforcements occur in the movement phase?

Yes, as per the BRB. Usually with "at the end of" specifying that it is the last thing (or set of "end of" things) that happen.

Rotborn wrote:

If they don’t want Cloud of Flies to affect reinforcements on the turn they arrive, one of two things needs to happen:

1. Errata the stratagem to read, “at the start of...”,
Or,
2. FAQ that reinforcements occur outside of the movement phase.

Or we could do things that must happen during the movement phase before things that must happen at the end of the movement phase and then this isn't an issue.

Once again, if you're doing something after completing an "end of movement phase" action then it really wasn't the end of the movement phase and you couldn't have deployed those reinforcements.

I completely agree, but what if you did it at the same time?

The rules currently allow for you to perform multiple actions at the end of the movement phase.

If an end of the phase action occurs within the phase, then I don’t see why you couldn’t simultaneously use cloud of flies.

However, if an end of the phase action occurs outside of the phase, then you obviously shouldn’t be able to use it.

**PoorGravitasHandling**

This is addressed (partially) on page 178 in the "Sequencing" side bar. For rules that each have "at the start of" or "at the end of", you use that side bar.

So this is an explicit exception for "something isn't actually happening right when you were told to do it".

But cloud of flies doesn't have "at the end of", it has "during". It can't compete with reinforcements for an "at the end of" sequencing exception.

Part of the problem, I think, is that we don't have Magic the Gathering priority/interrupt rules. There's nothing in the 40k book that says we can interject an action after an "end of the ..."

I'm also 99% sure we cannot do things simultaneously, based on the sequencing rule. I think there are also rules that would get pretty silly if we started doing everything that way.

**JakeSiren**

ian wrote:
Firstly i am providing the 2 emerging ways to look at the situation. I actually started with the notion that there points inbetween things .

At the end of his speach the crowd clapped.
Is an example

Your example doesn't illustrate what you think it does.

A speech consists of 3 parts. The start / introduction, the middle, and the end / conclusion. If the crowd started clapping at the end / conclusion of the speech then they have started clapping during the speech. If they have started clapping after the conclusion of the speech then they have started clapping after the end.

ian wrote:
All series means is it happens one fter the other it dosnt tell us what happens inbetween

You have also to prove the notion that things do not happen imediatly with reference to evidence

Series just means jn order it does not help with timing

Series does help with timing. We know that phase A must be fully completed before phase B can occur.

ian wrote:
So am i right in thinking that you agree with my second conclusion ? Where we are left with just the defination of end of which isnt clear.

I have noted the other stratagems that happen inbetween but there specify both ends of it. End of is just one part

Your second conclusion is correct as far as there is time during the game where it is neither during a phase or during a players turn. The rules are clear on this point.

The definition of end in this context is clear as per my point above.

**Rotborn**

PoorGravitasHandling wrote:
This is addressed (partially) on page 178 in the "Sequencing" side bar. For rules that each have "at the start of" or "at the end of", you use that side bar.

So this is an explicit exception for "something isn't actually happening right when you were told to do it".

But cloud of flies doesn't have "at the end of", it has "during". It can't compete with reinforcements for an "at the end of" sequencing exception.

Part of the problem, I think, is that we don't have Magic the Gathering priority/interrupt rules. There's nothing in the 40k book that says we can interject an action after an "end of the ..."

I'm also 99% sure we cannot do things simultaneously, based on the sequencing rule. I think there are also rules that would get pretty silly if we started doing everything that way.

That’s not quite what sequencing says...

It actually says “...you’ll occasionally find that two or more rules are to be resolved at the same time - normally ‘at the start of the movement phase’ or ‘before the battle begins’.

The question is, what does “are to be resolved” mean? They only give two examples, coupled with the ambiguously open-ended “normally” preface. This does not seem to preclude a rule like cloud of flies (which is open-ended in its timing within the phase) from resolving at the end of a phase.

As far as simultaneous actions, there are actually quite a few stratagems that happen simultaneously with other actions (Dark Pact, Iron Within..., Warriors of the Raging Winds, etc.)

**ian**

Im sorry but you have just broken down the speach into 3 parts which is complety subjective, when does the end start 10 mins before the end or mybe 15 mins. Is it the last paragraph. A speach does not have to be 3 parts

Mybe this will help

At the end of my life bury me.
The plain meaning of this sentance is when my life has ended bury me its that simple and there wouldnt be any confusion as when to bury me they would do it after i was dead.
Could you imagine using your example as an excuse to why your grandad is buryed alive, sorry i thought he had reached the end part of his life and on his will he wrote at the end of my life bury me.

The series helps only so far as we know what order the phases must happen. It does not state we must complete them merly resovle them in order. an example there are 6 episodes in the tv series. I can watch episodes 1,3,4,5 this is fine i cannot watch episodes 1,3,2,4,5 as i have broken the series.
In game terms tau do not have a physic phase it dosnt happen and is not required to happen for me to follow the correct oder

This part mite be even more relvant to the whole disscusion

once both players have completed a turn the battle round has been completed and the next one begins

If we look at this in a less abstract way and apply it to real life where the game is played , what we are left with is cause and effect

We are never required by the game to declare any point in time the only things we are required to do is pick units.

The cause the last moral check is complete the effect i pick a model to move.
We are also told this is the case by the rules above, once complete the next one begins we are not instucted to do anything else but begin the next battle round. Because we can only do what we have permission to do that means we have to pick a model to begin the next turn. We cannot declare it or do anything eles

I think i mite have just disproved the notion of space inbetween, meaning we are always in a phase and the phrases "at the end of " ect are triggers they are not points in time which means that you can look at the examples for the meaning of "end of"

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And they mean you are not consider to be during it

**JakeSiren**

ian wrote:
Im sorry but you have just broken down the speach into 3 parts which is complety subjective, when does the end start 10 mins before the end or mybe 15 mins. Is it the last paragraph. A speach does not have to be 3 parts

Check how to write a speech, from my brief web search all of the material includes the introduction, the body, and the conclusion. Some people break it down further, but these are the basic parts of a speech weather your like it or not.

ian wrote:
Mybe this will help

At the end of my life bury me.
The plain meaning of this sentance is when my life has ended bury me its that simple and there wouldnt be any confusion as when to bury me they would do it after i was dead.
Could you imagine using your example as an excuse to why your grandad is buryed alive, sorry i thought he had reached the end part of his life and on his will he wrote at the end of my life bury me.

Except that phrase is not valid English. In fact a Google search for that exact phrase only returns this topic which shows exactly how wrong the phrasing is.
The correct phrase would be "After I die bury me".

ian wrote:
The series helps only so far as we know what order the phases must happen. It does not state we must complete them merly resovle them in order. an example there are 6 episodes in the tv series. I can watch episodes 1,3,4,5 this is fine i cannot watch episodes 1,3,2,4,5 as i have broken the series.

What do you think resolve means? Is the phase resolved? Yes or no? If yes, then you can move onto the next phase in the order, if no then you can not.

In your example you can watch episodes 1,3,2,4,5 but things stop making sense, like the game rules if you don't do things in the correct order. If you stop half way through episode 1 to watch episode 2 then things also stop making sense, just like the phases.

Just to be clear, are you seriously saying that you think that we can be in two phases at once? Because if so there is no reasoning with you.

ian wrote:

In game terms tau do not have a physic phase it dosnt happen and is not required to happen for me to follow the correct oder

Actually the rules are quite explicit in that they do. They psychic phase is incredibly short, and most players will indicate that it's over by declaring that they are starting with the shooting phase after completing movement. If the opponent had a stratagem they want to play in the psychic phase they would say "Hey, I'm doing this in your psychic phase even though you aren't taking any actions"

ian wrote:
This part mite be even more relvant to the whole disscusion

once both players have completed a turn the battle round has been completed and the next one begins

If we look at this in a less abstract way and apply it to real life where the game is played , what we are left with is cause and effect

I don't think this means what you think it means. We have a series of instructions to follow. The rules are literally laid out to say, Do A, Do B, Do C, etcetera in this order.

ian wrote:
*and the rest of the argument based on faulty premise*

**ian**

No a speach is a speach if you want to break it down thats fine but it doesnt mean my sentance was wrong, and you failed to tell me how you would define the end part has begun

Yes it is english mybe not the best grammer but its serves the purpose, that "end of " does not always mean during in the clearist way i could find.

The rule states must be resovled in order, it does not state they have to be completed or started. Just the order has to be followed meaning you cannot mix them up. No i wasnt saying you can be in two phases at the same time (not sure where you got that from)

Ok if they are instructions can you please let me know where it instructs you to declare that your phase is over or anything is over.

Following instructions is the effectivly the same as cause and effect.

I complete my moral it then instructs me to begin the next battle round which means i pick a unit to move. If you can find some instructions for what i have to do at the end of the battle round or turn that would help otherwise the net result is the same

I roll my last moral dice then a unit is picked to move

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Some key points

We are never required to declare the end of things
We are only required to pick units in phases ( except the moral phase where we must take the test)
The only way we can move from one phase to another is by picking a unit

This is the same for the end of the battle round we are told what it means when 2 people have had there turn and it means the battle round has been completed

But we are still stuck with the only way to start another phase and in the process end the other one is by picking a unit

**JakeSiren**

ian wrote:
No a speach is a speach if you want to break it down thats fine but it doesnt mean my sentance was wrong, and you failed to tell me how you would define the end part has begun

It means your sentence doesn't illustrate the point you thought it should.

In regards to determining the end part, when talking about a phase, has the body of the phase been completed? If so then we resolve the end part of the phase. This is the point that the end part begins.

ian wrote:
Yes it is english mybe not the best grammer but its serves the purpose, that "end of " does not always mean during in the clearist way i could find.

No, it means that your usage is wrong. You can't frame an argument around the incorrect usage of a word. I've demonstrated that your usage is wrong and you are unable to provide a correct usage that supports your version of "after". Ergo, it does not exist and is wrong.

ian wrote:
The rule states must be resovled in order, it does not state they have to be completed or started. Just the order has to be followed meaning you cannot mix them up. No i wasnt saying you can be in two phases at the same time (not sure where you got that from)

I asked you before, what do you think resolve means? Because clearly you don't think it means to complete something. If I select a unit to shoot and resolve it's shooting attack, when does it's shooting attack finish (hint: it's after it has been resolved)

ian wrote:
Ok if they are instructions can you please let me know where it instructs you to declare that your phase is over or anything is over.

When it tells you to resolve each phase in order. But it appears that your understanding of the word resolve is incorrect.

ian wrote:
Following instructions is the same as cause and effect.

Wrong. I explained earlier, please re-read. (Unless you wish to say the cause is following instructions and the effect is the outcome of following those instructions, which is then correct)

ian wrote:
I complete my moral it then instructs me to begin the next battle round which means i pick a unit to move.

Wrong. Re-read the battle round. Your resolve your moral phase. Then you finish your turn. Then (depending on who went first) the 2nd player starts their turn, or you resolve the end of battle round actions.

ian wrote:
If you can find some instructions for what i have to do at the end of the battle round or turn that would help otherwise the net result is the same

You never played a mission with variable game length?

ian wrote:

I roll my last moral dice then a unit is pick to move

Wrong. See above. Please re-read the rules on the battle round.

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ian wrote:

Some key points

We are never required to declare the end of things
We are only required to pick units in phases ( except the moral phase where we must take the test)
The only way we can move from one phase to another is by picking a unit

This is the same for the end of the battle round we are told what it means when 2 people have had there turn and it means the battle round has been completed

But we are still stuck with the only way to start another phase and in the process end the other one is by picking a unit

How do you even start a game with this logic? You aren't required to declare a start the game, ergo, you are not allowed to play.

**ian**

Talk about rude but ok

We ate at the dinner table. but We ate in the dining room.

At in all these examples refers to a specific time or location; in refers to being inside a general area. At the end is used to point to the end as a specific point in time, whilst in the end is used, more idiomatically, to talk about a general “end” zone: the summary or conclusion.
Pulled from an english lesson

Hope that clears that up onto the next thing

Resovled does not mean complete so that notion is wrong

If i have not mixed up the order of phases ,then i have resovled them correctly i do not have to complete them

On to the next point

How do you resovle (dosent mean complete) your morale phase? Remmber we are only allowed to do things we have permission for which is picking a unit , if you are going to say once you finnished rolling its completed then you have to remmber the rules state once the battle round is complete the next one begins. Meaning the only action you can do is pick a unit it works like a loop with things interupting it

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You start a game by following the instructions ie only war in the free rules

**JohnnyHell**

Dictionary corner is great and all, but nothing being discussed is actually helping illuminate anything to do with the topic. It's just linguistic tennis now.

**ian**

Thank you i wasnt going to go there but it was hard not too. It has provided what could be a valid point on the use of "at the end of " that i hadnt looked into

its not a defination of a word so i dont beleave it breaks the rules.

Some key points based on how the game is played when its not an abstract thought process

We are never required or given permission to declare the end of things
We are only given permission to pick units in phases ( except the moral phase where we must take the test)
The only way we can move from one phase to another is by picking a unit which ends the last one.

So it would appear once the first phase has begun we are stuck in a loop where certain rules interupt forcing it to be a certain point, and the battleround is just a count of how many times we have gone round rather than somthing we have to do.

**JakeSiren**

JohnnyHell wrote:
Dictionary corner is great and all, but nothing being discussed is actually helping illuminate anything to do with the topic. It's just linguistic tennis now.

Quite right, I can sometimes forget myself when I get into these discussions.

At the end of the day we know that the end period of the phase is a part of the phase. Any part of a phase is self evidently during that phase. The end period of a phase only occurs once the main body of the phase has been resolved - so in the example that the OP stated once all movement has been concluded the " at the end of the movement phase" actions take place. Until the phase has completed it is still during the movement phase and Cloud of Flies can be played.

**ian**

Sorry i need to correct you there its your view that its part of the phase.

I have provided the evidence you required which actualy points to a correct way of its use in a sentance

" at the end of" it dose not mean during the end part. Feel free to argue that point but you can never claim that is the definate correct way

**JakeSiren**

ian wrote:
Sorry i need to correct you there its your view that its part of the phase.

I have provided the evidence you required which actualy points to the correct usage of the sentance

" at the end of" it dose not mean during the end part. Feel free to argue that point but you can never claim that is the definate correct way

Ian, I have no intention of discussing the meaning with you any further. I have already explained why your argument is incorrect, however you are free to have your own incorrect opinion. All of the reasoning is available for other readers to analyse and come to their own conclusions.

**ian**

I agree its pointless to discus this with you. but i dislike your implaication that i was wrong and you where right when i have provided a clear and valid way to use "at the end of" and if your view is indeed the only way that sentance could be used my example would not exsist. Here is the reference location should anybody wish to view it http://www.englishlessonsbrighton.co.uk/at-the-end-in-the-end-examples/ though out this debate i have tryed to be polite and see the differing view points. Which in my view you have not.

Edited for clarity as i posted in haste

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One last thing your are not saying my view is wrong you are saying the author of the website is wrong and he appears to be well qualified to explain the meaning.

**The Sentinel**

I'm starting to think that GW didn't give us enough rules on how they intend for Stratagems to work. I can see both sides of this argument, but I'm still leaning towards "end of" is still in the phase. Until we get an Errata/FAQ this is going to be another (SIGH) thing to discuss with your opponent before hand.

**doctortom**

Rotborn wrote:
GW only has to answer one question to resolve this whole discussion:

Do reinforcements occur in the movement phase?

If they don’t want Cloud of Flies to affect reinforcements on the turn they arrive, one of two things needs to happen:

1. Errata the stratagem to read, “at the start of...”,
Or,
2. FAQ that reinforcements occur outside of the movement phase.

Do reinforcements occur at the end of the movement phase?

If they do then trying to do anything based on them would have to be specifically allowed in the thing allowed (stratagem, abitlity, etc), as it happens at the end of the round, and as was noted in the thread, you can't do something in the phase after the phase has ended. Something like Auspex has a specific note that it is triggered by reinforcements arriveing.

So

1. Errata Cloud of Flies or errata stratagems in general so that they can be used reinforcements happening at the end of the phase.

or

2. FAQ that nothing that doesn't specifically state that it's allowed to cannot be used on reinforcments at the end of a phase.

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JakeSiren wrote:
ian wrote:
End of can mean before or after the event and both is basic english .

I just double checked some dictionaries to make sure, but End is never used for after.

But, end does mean "end", and after the end would be after. Playing a stratagem in response to something that happened at the end of a phase would be after the phase.

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Rotborn wrote:

Or we could do things that must happen during the movement phase before things that must happen at the end of the movement phase and then this isn't an issue.

If you're playing something in response to something else that happens, it's not at the same time - it's after the thing that triggers your wanting to play something in response.

If you're playing something in response to something that happens at the end of the phase, it's not at the same time, it's trying to play it after the phase.

**JakeSiren**

doctortom wrote:
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JakeSiren wrote:
ian wrote:
End of can mean before or after the event and both is basic english .

I just double checked some dictionaries to make sure, but End is never used for after.

But, end does mean "end", and after the end would be after. Playing a stratagem in response to something that happened at the end of a phase would be after the phase.

Ok, let's assume that at the end refers to the instant end point in time for a phase etc. In general how do you play stratagems that say "at the end of your x phase"? You literally do not have time to declare that you are using them as the phase is already over by the time you have started speaking! Trying to declare any earlier is too early as it is not the end of the phase!

On a less facetious point: say I have a Nurgle Daemon Prince come in from reserves. My opponent uses Auspex to shoot at the Daemon Prince. Are you saying that I am unable to play "Revolting Regeneration" at the end of my movement phase in response to him losing wounds from the Auspex shooting? Even if there are other reserves coming in at the end of my movement after Auspex is resolved?

Or we can agree that "at the end of" is a phrase that is also used to refer to a period of time leading up to the end point? Ex: At the end of the match she scored a goal.

**An Actual Englishman**

Jake have you read the rest of the thread? Arguing whether during is part of (or not) the end of the phase is irrelevant.

Logic dictates it is clearly before 'the end of the phase'. If this wasn't the case I could move units after reinforcing, since they also move 'during' the phase.

With regards your revolting regeneration stratagem example above, it entirely depends on the specific circumstances around which it can be played. If it says something along the lines of; "Whenever this model loses a wound you may..." then you can play it. If it says "On your turn, if your model has lost a wound...." then you can't etc

It has no bearing on this discussion though which revolves around something that must be played "during the movement phase" and not "at the end of the movement phase" or "at any point in the movement phase".