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The Newman wrote: I want to make a 'no one plays soup lists anymore because of Band of Brothers ... oh wait' comment, but GW having that poor of a grasp on how their own game works is more alarming than funny.
I think you posted this in the wrong thread.
Next up - this actually happened in a game:
A reiver stands on top of a three story building and looks at the nearby tyranids. It'd take a lot of time to climb down, he thinks. Unless..
He points his grapnel launcher at the ground, This will be sooo much faster he thinks...
I see no problems with this plan
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/02 17:51:30
Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.
A reiver stands on top of a three story building and looks at the nearby tyranids. It'd take a lot of time to climb down, he thinks. Unless..
He points his grapnel launcher at the ground, This will be sooo much faster he thinks...
I see no problems with this plan
As I see it in my head, it's the Reiver jumping off the building, and firing the grapnel at the building to slow the fall, or just simply rappelling down with the grapnel.
The Newman wrote: I want to make a 'no one plays soup lists anymore because of Band of Brothers ... oh wait' comment, but GW having that poor of a grasp on how their own game works is more alarming than funny.
I think you posted this in the wrong thread.
Next up - this actually happened in a game:
A reiver stands on top of a three story building and looks at the nearby tyranids. It'd take a lot of time to climb down, he thinks. Unless..
He points his grapnel launcher at the ground, This will be sooo much faster he thinks...
The Newman wrote: I want to make a 'no one plays soup lists anymore because of Band of Brothers ... oh wait' comment, but GW having that poor of a grasp on how their own game works is more alarming than funny.
I think you posted this in the wrong thread.
Well, I did read their review of the new FAQ where they declared "Soup is off the menu because Band of Brothers is now permanent" and laughed at how stupid that was for a moment.
A Reiver and an Assault Marine are standing on one side of a 10" thick, 13" tall wall running the length of the board.
The Reiver can travel to the top of the wall and walk around.
The Assault Marine can never reach the top of the wall, but can cross to the other side.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/10/03 19:28:46
Bharring wrote: At least the way they killed Allies was carefully crafted to allow fluffy Ynnari lists!
Well, it did take a specific, targetted FAQ for Ynnari to adjust them to work in a fluffy manor post-FAQ.
Or, at least it will, once they completely rewrite Ynnari fluff to match their post-Battle Brothers rules...
What Ynnari need is just a big Wombo-combo codex where the datasheets are reprinted with the correct rules and keywords swapped out, for each datasheet they can take (so basically no Special Characters other than Ynnari ones) from the DE, CWE and Clown codex.
Then again, the Rule of 3 would mean they could basically spam 6 Dark Reapers again, so who knows anymore.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/10/03 21:20:15
Sometimes I think that someone at the GWHQ plays eldar and just writes their rules to have fun himself and blow up every other army out there. The other stuff GW makes, that ends up OP or very bad, seems to be made super random. Stuff like eldar soups on the other hand fit so nice, both with synergies and points costs, that it almost feels as if one or two dudes sat down durning writing of all eldar books and first made a list or two they may want to play, and then made all the books around that stuff. But maybe am just paranoid.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
Bharring wrote: At least the way they killed Allies was carefully crafted to allow fluffy Ynnari lists!
Well, it did take a specific, targetted FAQ for Ynnari to adjust them to work in a fluffy manor post-FAQ.
Or, at least it will, once they completely rewrite Ynnari fluff to match their post-Battle Brothers rules...
What Ynnari need is just a big Wombo-combo codex where the datasheets are reprinted with the correct rules and keywords swapped out, for each datasheet they can take (so basically no Special Characters other than Ynnari ones) from the DE, CWE and Clown codex.
Then again, the Rule of 3 would mean they could basically spam 6 Dark Reapers again, so who knows anymore.
You cannot field more of than three datasheets with the same name, even if the content differs. For example, you can't field nine predators, even if you take them from codex CSM, DG and TS.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
Jidmah wrote: You cannot field more of than three datasheets with the same name, even if the content differs. For example, you can't field nine predators, even if you take them from codex CSM, DG and TS.
That is incorrect. As long as they are different datasheets they don't stack against each other. For example, I can take 3 tech priests from the imperial guard codex, and run them with 3 tech priests from the mechanicus codex because they are two seperate datasheets in two separate codices, with two separate keywords, taking up two separate force org slots. Them having the same name+equipment+stats+abilities+models is irrelevant.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/04 06:12:54
Them having the same name is very relevant. Same name = same datasheet. All other parts of the datasheet are irrelevant.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
GW still hasnt clarified what exactly they mean with the rule of three. Right now i can field 9 predators, three from codex BA, three from codex DA, and three from codex SM, because they have different keywords, thus they arent the same datasheet. The same datasheet would be an exact copy, word for word, which isnt the case.
p5freak wrote: GW still hasnt clarified what exactly they mean with the rule of three. Right now i can field 9 predators, three from codex BA, three from codex DA, and three from codex SM, because they have different keywords, thus they arent the same datasheet. The same datasheet would be an exact copy, word for word, which isnt the case.
Then again with strategems same name=same strategem even if rules are different.
GW really needs to clarify it what counts as same datasheet.
Bharring wrote: At least the way they killed Allies was carefully crafted to allow fluffy Ynnari lists!
Well, it did take a specific, targetted FAQ for Ynnari to adjust them to work in a fluffy manor post-FAQ.
Or, at least it will, once they completely rewrite Ynnari fluff to match their post-Battle Brothers rules...
What Ynnari need is just a big Wombo-combo codex where the datasheets are reprinted with the correct rules and keywords swapped out, for each datasheet they can take (so basically no Special Characters other than Ynnari ones) from the DE, CWE and Clown codex.
Then again, the Rule of 3 would mean they could basically spam 6 Dark Reapers again, so who knows anymore.
You cannot field more of than three datasheets with the same name, even if the content differs. For example, you can't field nine predators, even if you take them from codex CSM, DG and TS.
Except they did an Errata for the Big Rule Book.
Q3) Are the Daemon Prince datasheet from Codex: Chaos
Space Marines, the Daemon Prince of Nurgle datasheet
from Codex: Death Guard, and the Daemon Prince of
Tzeentch datasheet from Codex: Thousand Sons all
considered different datasheets for the purposes of the Organised
Events guidelines?
A3) Yes.
A bolter fires and a Necron succumbs. His corpse rises up as a poxwalker much to the horror of his comrades. Then, to everyone's surprise his corpse rises again as a fully functionality necron. The necron and the poxwalker stare at each other, both wondering which of them is the clone.
Bharring wrote: At least the way they killed Allies was carefully crafted to allow fluffy Ynnari lists!
Well, it did take a specific, targetted FAQ for Ynnari to adjust them to work in a fluffy manor post-FAQ.
Or, at least it will, once they completely rewrite Ynnari fluff to match their post-Battle Brothers rules...
What Ynnari need is just a big Wombo-combo codex where the datasheets are reprinted with the correct rules and keywords swapped out, for each datasheet they can take (so basically no Special Characters other than Ynnari ones) from the DE, CWE and Clown codex.
Then again, the Rule of 3 would mean they could basically spam 6 Dark Reapers again, so who knows anymore.
You cannot field more of than three datasheets with the same name, even if the content differs. For example, you can't field nine predators, even if you take them from codex CSM, DG and TS.
Except they did an Errata for the Big Rule Book.
Q3) Are the Daemon Prince datasheet from Codex: Chaos
Space Marines, the Daemon Prince of Nurgle datasheet
from Codex: Death Guard, and the Daemon Prince of
Tzeentch datasheet from Codex: Thousand Sons all
considered different datasheets for the purposes of the Organised
Events guidelines?
A3) Yes.
So yes. You can have 9 demon princes.
Except those four datasheets have different names:
Daemon Prince (Codex CSM)
Daemon Prince of Chaos (Codex Chaos Daemons)
Daemon Prince of Nurgle (Codex DG)
Daemon Prince of Tzeench (Codex TS)
If anything, this proves my point.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
Bharring wrote: At least the way they killed Allies was carefully crafted to allow fluffy Ynnari lists!
Well, it did take a specific, targetted FAQ for Ynnari to adjust them to work in a fluffy manor post-FAQ.
Or, at least it will, once they completely rewrite Ynnari fluff to match their post-Battle Brothers rules...
What Ynnari need is just a big Wombo-combo codex where the datasheets are reprinted with the correct rules and keywords swapped out, for each datasheet they can take (so basically no Special Characters other than Ynnari ones) from the DE, CWE and Clown codex.
Then again, the Rule of 3 would mean they could basically spam 6 Dark Reapers again, so who knows anymore.
You cannot field more of than three datasheets with the same name, even if the content differs. For example, you can't field nine predators, even if you take them from codex CSM, DG and TS.
Except they did an Errata for the Big Rule Book.
Q3) Are the Daemon Prince datasheet from Codex: Chaos
Space Marines, the Daemon Prince of Nurgle datasheet
from Codex: Death Guard, and the Daemon Prince of
Tzeentch datasheet from Codex: Thousand Sons all
considered different datasheets for the purposes of the Organised
Events guidelines?
A3) Yes.
So yes. You can have 9 demon princes.
Except those four datasheets have different names:
Daemon Prince (Codex CSM)
Daemon Prince of Chaos (Codex Chaos Daemons)
Daemon Prince of Nurgle (Codex DG)
Daemon Prince of Tzeench (Codex TS)
If anything, this proves my point.
Fair enough. Just wanted to clarify that Chaos Marines fully endorse the flying circus. Now all they need to do is grab some Dakkafexes and they would have an army!
A bolter fires and a Necron succumbs. His corpse rises up as a poxwalker much to the horror of his comrades. Then, to everyone's surprise his corpse rises again as a fully functionality necron. The necron and the poxwalker stare at each other, both wondering which of them is the clone.
Jidmah wrote: You cannot field more of than three datasheets with the same name, even if the content differs. For example, you can't field nine predators, even if you take them from codex CSM, DG and TS.
That is incorrect. As long as they are different datasheets they don't stack against each other. For example, I can take 3 tech priests from the imperial guard codex, and run them with 3 tech priests from the mechanicus codex because they are two seperate datasheets in two separate codices, with two separate keywords, taking up two separate force org slots. Them having the same name+equipment+stats+abilities+models is irrelevant.
If the datasheet says "Predator" then you can only have 3 of them, doesn't matter if you try and take them from the Vanilla codex or the Blood Angel codex. So you can't take:
3x Vanilla Predators
3x Blood Angel Predators
However, you -can- take:
3x Predators
3x Baal Predators
Because Baal predators are a different datasheet entry.
Edit: Tech Priests are a slightly odd one, as they are the same data sheet, but they're in a different force org slot? Under the current rules, you can still only have 3 of them, as they don't distinguish between force org slots just the actual datasheet entry. But it's a definite grey area as I don't think any other unit has this problem. For everything else, it's pretty straightforward.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/04 15:27:37
Jidmah wrote: You cannot field more of than three datasheets with the same name, even if the content differs. For example, you can't field nine predators, even if you take them from codex CSM, DG and TS.
That is incorrect. As long as they are different datasheets they don't stack against each other. For example, I can take 3 tech priests from the imperial guard codex, and run them with 3 tech priests from the mechanicus codex because they are two seperate datasheets in two separate codices, with two separate keywords, taking up two separate force org slots. Them having the same name+equipment+stats+abilities+models is irrelevant.
If the datasheet says "Predator" then you can only have 3 of them, doesn't matter if you try and take them from the Vanilla codex or the Blood Angel codex. So you can't take:
3x Vanilla Predators
3x Blood Angel Predators
However, you -can- take:
3x Predators
3x Baal Predators
Because Baal predators are a different datasheet entry.
Edit: Tech Priests are a slightly odd one, as they are the same data sheet, but they're in a different force org slot? Under the current rules, you can still only have 3 of them, as they don't distinguish between force org slots just the actual datasheet entry. But it's a definite grey area as I don't think any other unit has this problem. For everything else, it's pretty straightforward.
Can you show me in the "Rule of three" where it says you use only the name to determine if it's the same datasheet? Because afaik the rule says no such thing. It only says "same datasheet." If Datasheet A has the <CHAPTER> Keyword, and Datasheet B doesn't have the <CHAPTER> keyword, then even if literally every other letter is identical, they are, by definition, not the same Datasheet.
Jidmah wrote: You cannot field more of than three datasheets with the same name, even if the content differs. For example, you can't field nine predators, even if you take them from codex CSM, DG and TS.
That is incorrect. As long as they are different datasheets they don't stack against each other. For example, I can take 3 tech priests from the imperial guard codex, and run them with 3 tech priests from the mechanicus codex because they are two seperate datasheets in two separate codices, with two separate keywords, taking up two separate force org slots. Them having the same name+equipment+stats+abilities+models is irrelevant.
If the datasheet says "Predator" then you can only have 3 of them, doesn't matter if you try and take them from the Vanilla codex or the Blood Angel codex. So you can't take:
3x Vanilla Predators
3x Blood Angel Predators
However, you -can- take:
3x Predators
3x Baal Predators
Because Baal predators are a different datasheet entry.
Edit: Tech Priests are a slightly odd one, as they are the same data sheet, but they're in a different force org slot? Under the current rules, you can still only have 3 of them, as they don't distinguish between force org slots just the actual datasheet entry. But it's a definite grey area as I don't think any other unit has this problem. For everything else, it's pretty straightforward.
Can you show me in the "Rule of three" where it says you use only the name to determine if it's the same datasheet? Because afaik the rule says no such thing. It only says "same datasheet." If Datasheet A has the <CHAPTER> Keyword, and Datasheet B doesn't have the <CHAPTER> keyword, then even if literally every other letter is identical, they are, by definition, not the same Datasheet.
Oh I see, I had read it as the tech marine datasheets being the same unit except for the force org slot it takes. If they also don't share the same faction keywords then it's an odd one. But my point still stands that the techmarine is in a unique situation, I don't think there are any other units that are in the same situation.
But you're right, with different keywords... maybe they're different units. I'm sure if anyone was ever wanting to take more than 3 techmarines in an army, there would be an faq about this.
I mean.. does anyone even take more than 1? Does anyone even take 1?
Dark Angels predator, Blood Angels, Vanilla and Space wolfs datasheets are diffrent for vehicals as they have different keywords.
The main reason its currently not even an issue is marine vehicals suck
Ice_can wrote: Dark Angels predator, Blood Angels, Vanilla and Space wolfs datasheets are diffrent for vehicals as they have different keywords.
The main reason its currently not even an issue is marine vehicals suck
They don't have different keywords? They're all the same. The only difference is that the <Chapter> keyword is fixed on the BA/DA datasheets.
If this was all that was needed to break the rule of 3, then you could take 9 leviathans in a list just by making 3 Ultramarines, 3 Salamanders and 3 Blood Angels.
Ice_can wrote: Dark Angels predator, Blood Angels, Vanilla and Space wolfs datasheets are diffrent for vehicals as they have different keywords.
The main reason its currently not even an issue is marine vehicals suck
They don't have different keywords? They're all the same. The only difference is that the <Chapter> keyword is fixed on the BA/DA datasheets.
If this was all that was needed to break the rule of 3, then you could take 9 leviathans in a list just by making 3 Ultramarines, 3 Salamanders and 3 Blood Angels.
Which is stupid, and not the case.
No your missing the point by confusing the Imperial Armour index example you have given with the codex's which are distinctly worded differently.
Blood angles don't have a <Chapter> keyword same for dark angles wolfs.
The imperial armour index also allows me to make a leviathan deathwatch which isn't a valid substitution for <Chapter> keyword in codex spacemarines.
Quite frankly the rule of 3 while well intentioned has been horribly wrongly implemented by GW.
A max of tau drones is 3 units but 10 demon princes is totally OK 3 Captains, 3 terminator captains, 3 gravis captains, 3 primaris captains and 3 captains on bikes and 3 Captains in Cataphractii armour is intentional thats 18 captains without even going into the named charictors ffs.
12 Leman Russes is ok but 4 predators is banned. Especially when the strategum for them needs 3 predators.
Ice_can wrote: Dark Angels predator, Blood Angels, Vanilla and Space wolfs datasheets are diffrent for vehicals as they have different keywords.
The main reason its currently not even an issue is marine vehicals suck
They don't have different keywords? They're all the same. The only difference is that the <Chapter> keyword is fixed on the BA/DA datasheets.
If this was all that was needed to break the rule of 3, then you could take 9 leviathans in a list just by making 3 Ultramarines, 3 Salamanders and 3 Blood Angels.
Which is stupid, and not the case.
No your missing the point by confusing the Imperial Armour index example you have given with the codex's which are distinctly worded differently.
Blood angles don't have a <Chapter> keyword same for dark angles wolfs.
The imperial armour index also allows me to make a leviathan deathwatch which isn't a valid substitution for <Chapter> keyword in codex spacemarines.
Quite frankly the rule of 3 while well intentioned has been horribly wrongly implemented by GW.
A max of tau drones is 3 units but 10 demon princes is totally OK 3 Captains, 3 terminator captains, 3 gravis captains, 3 primaris captains and 3 captains on bikes and 3 Captains in Cataphractii armour is intentional thats 18 captains without even going into the named charictors ffs.
12 Leman Russes is ok but 4 predators is banned. Especially when the strategum for them needs 3 predators.
Not looking at the Index, I'm reading the codices. Blood Angels Predator has the <Chapter> keyword, same as every other Predator does. It's just that the <Chapter> is forced into being Blood Angels, instead of you being able to make a choice. It's still a chapter keyword, and so it's still the same predator as every other predator.
Again, the Baal Predator would be fine, as that is actually a different vehicle option.
You're trying to game the rules, in a way that is clearly against the RAI (and even against the RAW).
And you're also arguing this (badly) in totally the wrong place. If you want to keep trying to convince people, take it to YMDC forum instead. You'll find a lot more people there who might be interested (but very few who will agree with you).
6000 World Eaters/Khorne 
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
