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Hm. Maybe so. Apologies for my own stupididty. I did not think that was mandatory but an option to reward you for taking "proper" knight detachments.

So... can you fit this in 2000:

Guard Battalion 250pts
IK superheavy knight lance -
1 dominus class knight 650
2 questoris knights 480 each
2 armiger helliger(?) 200 each

points very approximate but that totals 1800 and would have... i think 3+5+3=11 CPs?

Edit: BAD MATHS! Probably cant afford the armigers.

 Silentz wrote:
If you can't see why they want you to group your armigers in one detachment and big knights in the other to benefit from character and warlord traits then you're a muppet.

In another universe this rule wasn't inserted and this same thread is full of the same muppets saying "OMG its so OP you can take 3 knight lances and gave 3 character knights GW you are idiots"

You can still take a superheavy detachment with 1 knight and 2 armigers and get CP but your knight doesn't become a character.

Except from pic above knight lance isn't optional so 3 armigers, no cp


Also if you resort to name calling you admit your arqument is worthless.

tneva82 wrote:

 Silentz wrote:
Also if you resort to name calling you admit your arqument is worthless.

Let’s be real: He’s wrong because the substance of his argument is wrong. If you resort to name calling, you resort to name calling. Nothing more, nothing less.

Well, that’s my shopping done. Castellan, Valiant, Armigers and Codex.

Guess it’s timr to dig out the Leadbelcher spray, no?

 Silentz wrote:
Hm. Maybe so. Apologies for my own stupididty. I did not think that was mandatory but an option to reward you for taking "proper" knight detachments.

So... can you fit this in 2000:

Guard Battalion 250pts
IK superheavy knight lance -
1 dominus class knight 650
2 questoris knights 480 each
2 armiger helliger(?) 200 each

points very approximate but that totals 1800 and would have... i think 3+5+3=11 CPs?

Edit: BAD MATHS! Probably cant afford the armigers.

Questoris knights are apparently down to 285 points base. Some of the weapons got reductions as well. The Armigers are roughly 180 points for the better options too.

Did any weapons drop in points cost? The RFBC seems to be way overcosted.

Points values below, these are from SS82s preview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZII_xblylU&t=1s

These do not include carapace weapons! Sorry for the formatting, also note, might have some mistakes

Warden 285 + (75 + 17) + 30 + 4 = 411
Errant 285 + 76 + 30 + 4 = 395
Gallant 285(?) + 30 + 35 + 4 = 354
Warglaive 160 + 4 (includes Thermal Spear and Chaincleaver)
Helverin 170 + 4 (includes Armiger Autocannon)
Paladin 285 + (100 + 4) + 30 + 4 = 423
Crusader 285 + (75 + 17) + (100 + 4) + 4 = 485
Canis Rex 450 (Includes all wargear)
Valiant 500, includes Metla and 2 primary weapons for free + weapon options on 3 carapace hardpoints
Castellan 510, includes Metla and 2 primary weapons for free + weapon options on 3 carapace hardpoints
Preceptor 385 (Includes Las Impulsor) + 30 + 4 = 419

Also, Gallant is now 5 attacks and WS2+.

Thermal Cannon 76
Stormspear 45
Reaper chainsword 30
Gauntlet 35
Avenger Gatling 75
Heavy Flamer 17
Rapid Fire BC 100
Stubber 4
Shieldbreaker Missile 12
Siegebreaker Cannon 35

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Well, that’s my shopping done. Castellan, Valiant, Armigers and Codex.

Guess it’s timr to dig out the Leadbelcher spray, no?

Such a time saver when painting Knights. Just Renegade for me, cannot pass on those savings, and sub £100 at Element Games.

I’ve spread my order between Darksphere and Wargames Armoury

Will pick up the dice etc at a later date.

Gryphonne wrote:

Points values below, these are from SS82s preview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZII_xblylU&t=1s

These do not include carapace weapons! Sorry for the formatting, also note, might have some mistakes

Warden 285 + (75 + 17) + 30 + 4 = 411
Errant 285 + 76 + 30 + 4 = 395
Gallant 285(?) + 30 + 35 + 4 = 354
Warglaive 160 + 4 (includes Thermal Spear and Chaincleaver)
Helverin 170 + 4 (includes Armiger Autocannon)
Paladin 285 + (100 + 4) + 30 + 4 = 423
Crusader 285 + (75 + 17) + (100 + 4) + 4 = 485
Canis Rex 450 (Includes all wargear)
Valiant He didn't mention the base cost, includes Metla and 2 primary weapons for free + weapon options on 3 carapace hardpoints
Castellan He didn't mention the base cost, includes Metla and 2 primary weapons for free + weapon options on 3 carapace hardpoints
Preceptor 385 (Includes Las Impulsor) + 30 + 4 = 419

Also, Gallant is now 5 attacks and WS2+.

Thermal Cannon 76
Stormspear 45
Reaper chainsword 30
Gauntlet 35
Avenger Gatling 75
Heavy Flamer 17
Rapid Fire BC 100
Stubber 4
Shieldbreaker Missile 12
Siegebreaker Cannon 35

Thanks for the write up! He did mention the Castellan base cost though..(I think I've heard that the Valiant is base cost 500 but I might be making that up)
Castellan 510
So depending on 2 sets of missiles and one siegebreaker it's 593 points
Or two siegebreaker hardpoints and one set of missiles it's 604 points

PiñaColada wrote:

Thanks for the write up! He did mention the Castellan base cost though..(I think I've heard that the Valiant is base cost 500 but I might be making that up)
Castellan 510
So depending on 2 sets of missiles and one siegebreaker it's 593 points
Or two siegebreaker hardpoints and one set of missiles it's 604 points

Ah, might have missed that Also, not entirely sure whether the Shieldbreakers are per battery or per physical missile.

Gryphonne wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:

Thanks for the write up! He did mention the Castellan base cost though..(I think I've heard that the Valiant is base cost 500 but I might be making that up)
Castellan 510
So depending on 2 sets of missiles and one siegebreaker it's 593 points
Or two siegebreaker hardpoints and one set of missiles it's 604 points

Ah, might have missed that Also, not entirely sure whether the Shieldbreakers are per battery or per physical missile.

I assume per missile since otherwise they're the same cost as a hunter-killer but easily more effective against almost all targets. S10 vs S8, AP-4 vs AP-2 and no invulnerable saves.

Could do 4 errants and a preceptor/warden.

Two gallants, an errant, warden and crusader.


Hmm. Might just be better with four Crusaders, lol.

I'm guessing no double Avenger variant then?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'm guessing no double Avenger variant then?

No, renegades only

Am I right to assume that if you only take 1 knight in a super heavy auxiliary detachment, you don't gain access to stratagems?

You should. It would be an IK detachment so it should qualify for stratagems.

If it was just a special rule so that an imperial knight can’t be a character unless it’s in a detachment of 3 knights or take sthe exception warlord strat, or is a unique character that would be completely fine even if it limits relics.

However it’s either worded poorly or just complete junk because most people are reading it as every superheavy detachment With any knights receives no CP unless you take 3 larger knights in any combination.

gungo wrote:
If it was just a special rule so that an imperial knight can’t be a character unless it’s in a detachment of 3 knights or take sthe exception warlord strat, or is a unique character that would be completely fine even if it limits relics.

However it’s either worded poorly or just complete junk because most people are reading it as every superheavy detachment With any knights receives no CP unless you take 3 larger knights in any combination.

That's what it says.

You can also take a detachment that doesn't have three questor/dominus knights (i.e. armigers mixed in) and still get a character.

Not quite as many points down on my Warden as I had hoped, but I might be able to squeeze two big Knights into my Ad Mech list instead of one Knight and two Armigers.

Does anyone know whether the Renegade box contains enough transfers for 2 imperium knights?

I think it's probably fair that Armigers don't give CP.

It's wouldn't be fair if you could spam a ton of them for super cheap Lord of War detachments.

If CP is so important then just pick a keyword other than Imperial Knights for the detachment and you can have your armigers and your CP, you just don't get a character (and probably stratagems).

All this rule does is require you to have three of questor/dominus if you want CP and a character.

Plus why wouldn't you take three proper knights?

The price for the Armiger patterns is lovely. 220+ points just wasn't worth it. But sub 200 is perfect. The Helverin Autocannons are 2D3 each with I think AP-1 or 2 and 3 damage I think. I'm totally building my second Armiger with those guns.

 anyname121 wrote:
The price for the Armiger patterns is lovely. 220+ points just wasn't worth it. But sub 200 is perfect. The Helverin Autocannons are 2D3 each with I think AP-1 or 2 and 3 damage I think. I'm totally building my second Armiger with those guns.

Build Helverins in a Detachment with a Knight Warden rocking a Heavy Stubber, give the whole Detachment Ironhail Heavy Stubbers stratagem for AP-1 Heavy Stubbers in addition to their other stuff for some fun at rooting out light infantry.

I reckon it might be good to go with a valiant and a couple of questoris knights, for ~14-500 points. That leaves enough for a battalion of your choice, though of course there’s a strong case for IG. If you wanted you could then just about add in another knight, some armigers or maybe a spearhead of basilisks. Loads of options, basically.

I think that a vanguard of assassins could be a really useful option. Say a vindicareand a couple of Culexus. A vindicare combined with a couple of missiles off a Dominus would make characters’ lives brief and not much fun.

I actually think the points values look about right. There doesn’t seem to be an obviously “right” choice of knight. The avenger probably needed its price cut, because of its heavy flamer “tax”, though now I think it feels like clearly the best of the questoris gun options. The RFBC has always been kind of the best option, so I think the price is correct. The errant is probably the weakest of the knights, due to the prevalence of invulnerable saves.

I’m rethinking gallants. One of these guys with the +1A warlord trait is an absolute beast, for not too many points. Give him the relic fist, or maybe just something to make him live longer, and he’ll make a mess.

Not too sure about the relic gauntlet still. I’m not sure there are many situations in which it’s needed. Few things have enough wounds for it to make a difference, though that might need testing. Maybe it’s how you make sure that a PBC dies properly, rather than pass a couple of invulnerable saves and live.

So maybe going Valiant, Crusader, Gallant is the best option. The galant can zerg ahead, rushing towards the biggest threat and making itself a target. The valiant and crusader should then live long enough do do real damage. That should cost about 1450, leaving you with plenty of options for other stuff.

Points have gone down radically. You used to be able to field 4 knights at 2k. Now you can have 5, or 4 and a bunch of other stuff.

Gryphonne wrote:
Does anyone know whether the Renegade box contains enough transfers for 2 imperium knights?

It appears so. At least enough for two Terryn Knights.

I'm feeling a Knight Lancer with 2-4 Armiger Warglaives as House Terryn.

WT for a 4++ and relic for 2+ armor save on the Lancer.

Ally either BA and Guard, or just a Guard Brigade.

Outflank some Warglaives, if possible, move, advance and charge the Lancer and almost guarantee a t1 charge every turn, double fight to just obliterate a few things.

Will give me 13CP, plenty to work with.

I’m not overly worried by a dearth of Command Points.

Yes, they’re useful for picking off characters and boosting your shield - but not having that many of them seems to be the price for fielding an army which largely scoffs at small arms fire.