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 casvalremdeikun wrote:
You know, if there is some sort of shoot twice strategem, these Knights will be insane.

Unlikely due to how extreme an effect that would have. Still, it would make the volcano lance go from forgettable to terrifying by virtue of how massively more reliable 2d6 is than 1d6.

changemod wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
You know, if there is some sort of shoot twice strategem, these Knights will be insane.

Unlikely due to how extreme an effect that would have. Still, it would make the volcano lance go from forgettable to terrifying by virtue of how massively more reliable 2d6 is than 1d6.

Or having a 2 heavy 2 rerolling 10 damage weapon! That's auto delte button mode!

Right.

Burny Knight.
Wee Shooty Knights
Codex.

What’s your shopping list?

I want one of the big guys, but I haven't made up my mind yet. At around 670pts, when normal Knights are dropping in costs, I don't know how worth it it is.

Not super interested in the Harpoon, but I love the Flamer, so we'll see.

Just remember.....birthday on Thursday, so likely to have more munneh than I though...

Hmmm.

Maybe one of each of the Big Knights?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
You know, if there is some sort of shoot twice strategem, these Knights will be insane.

That is scary thought. If a Dominus can shoot twice it will put out obscene amount of fire power.

Sacristan thingy seems to virtually guarantee max potential shots.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Right.

Burny Knight.
Wee Shooty Knights
Codex.

What’s your shopping list?

Burny Knight. Wolfy Knight. Codex. Possibly Renegade. If Wolfy Knight is just an upgrade kit, definitely Renegade.

I will say, a Dominus with Plasma/Volcano/2 Cannons docked in their Terrain is pumping out...

12 S7(8) ap-3 1d (2d) shots
6 S14 AP-5 3d3d shots
12 S7 ap -1 d3 Damage Shots

All from 48"

and however many melta shots, if in range.

That's one shooty boy.

Well, the Knight Specific terrain is supposed to let you do max shots...

Correct. That's maxed out, and assuming you can only have 2 Cannon hardpoints and not more.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
What’s your shopping list?

Well I already have a medium knight and four forgebane ones, one of which is built.

So I guess a box of little dudes, a harpoon guy, and since that makes the decision -very-easy, an Atropos for my cerastus knight choice (harpooner covers the flame option even though I like the look of the Acheron, warden and castigator are redundant, lancer looks cool but serves no purpose).

I may also get a second medium knight, if the special character box strikes my fancy.

And that should do me for options. I don’t really need a full knight household since I can easily make one of those in Titanicus scale. Though certainly, having a large number of Armigers will make it fieldable as a full army anyhow.

 drazz wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LunarSol wrote:
Point costs are going to be everything here. Quad meltas makes me think this stuff is going to be pretty silly expensive.

They already leaked that the Dominus class Knights will by just north of 600 points.

Fully equipped?

I wonder if it's also accurate that the terrain piece allows you to reload one-shot weapons. If so, there's no reason to go with more than one Shieldbreaker system if you're sitting in the terrain piece the whole game. Might as well fill the other hardpoints with the Seigebreaker batteries to max your shooting per turn

OMG... PLEASE let me be able to take two Volcano Lance's. PLEASE!!!

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I will say, a Dominus with Plasma/Volcano/2 Cannons docked in their Terrain is pumping out...

12 S7(8) ap-3 1d (2d) shots
6 S14 AP-5 3d3d shots
12 S7 ap -1 d3 Damage Shots

All from 48"

and however many melta shots, if in range.

That's one shooty boy.

Still only going to kill 20 models if they all Hit, all Wound and your opponent fails every save. Hardly a good return for a 600+ point model. Looks like Knights are still going to struggle against infantry hordes.

So, if i am honest i am a little disappointed in this weapons reveal.

The main weapons - they "look" fantastic, especially from the Castellan, but, the secondary ones are a bit of a let down.

The "seigebreaker" cannons are essentially worse autocannons, and even worse Predator autocannons. I expected at least a little bit of an upgrade over the normal versions (upgrade doesn't mean relying on good d3 rolls).

The missiles. The 1 per turn really, really hurts this model. All i can do is HOPE there is a stratagem that allows them to all be fired in one burst - maybe restricting it to having to all target the same unit. As it stands the Castellan will deal ~10 wounds to Magnus in a turn, without his -1 to hit and +1 invuln buffs. This will be even less to Mortarian. Should the Knight then be close enough for a Warptime Magnus to get close enough to charge and target it with mortal wounds, then the Knight is seriously in trouble.

I don't think, in any slightly competitive game, these Knights will survive to turn 4 to fire all their missiles.

I seriously thought i was putting Magnus back on the shelf when i heard the rumours - now i will happily trade a half dead Magnus for seriously crippling a ~670 point Knight.

If we are then looking at the terrain giving max shots, then the Knight can easily, reliably 1 shot Magnus if it has first turn. But then, it is ~800 points and 2 detachments taken up, meaning you 100% need to take battalion of something for CP - especially with the first 2 stratagems being shown both cost 2CP...

Plasma profile, again, seems pretty lame. Sure, potentially having 12 plasma shots is pretty fantastic, but, for the cost of the overall Knight, wouldn't you rather just have 20 Hellblasters with -4ap and likely to have a re-roll on hits and wounds?

As for the Valiant. Super cool, but, if it lives to 1 shot a Rhino with it's Harpoon it is because the Rhino was being charged forward and sacrificed. If it lives to kill a Dreadnought or Predator in the back-line, then something went seriously wrong. I do like the "sorry, Alaitoc – you’re gonna burn" comment though!

Maybe i'm just overthinking things and need to take a step back and wait to see what it plays like, but, i'm currently not seeing what this class of Knight brings to the table that is better than other things available to the Imperium - beyond it looking like an absolute beast of a centre piece.

Just conjecture here, but based on current price points,

400 for the body.
4*17 for meltaguns
6*28 for the shoulder cannons (identical to taurox prime cannon)
40 for the plasma cannon (two executioner cannons basically)
80-100 for the volcano cannon.
So 750-780 points?

Valiant, 90 for the flamer (3 heldrake flamers)
80-100 for the harpoon. So closer to 800.

Those are my guesstimates anyway.

StarHunter25 wrote:
Just conjecture here, but based on current price points,

6*28 for the shoulder cannons (identical to taurox prime cannon)
40 for the plasma cannon (two executioner cannons basically)

Those are BS4 prices, but close enough anyway.

Seems to be around the 630 mark.

Don’t forget this is an army that’ll hurt for holding objectives. Whilst I expect them to do attrition really well (need to cause a lot of damage to earn a dent in the firepower you’ll receive in return), a canny opponent will be able to force hands, particularly if you’ve got objective boosting cards in your hand.

Reckon my approach would be Armiger tipping for cheap VPs, and to reduce my oppenents number of models.

At least that’s how I’d set about trying to be me. All the firepower in the world don’t matter a single jot if I can’t stop my opponent hogging all the objectives.

From Spikeybitz on the Dominus class knights, a little over a week ago:

The big boys are clocking in at 500 just for the knight itself, but a previous rumor said you could get three in an 1850 list so I would imagine that with weapons we’re looking at around 600 total cost to field them.

Perhaps the knight weapons all come down significantly in price?


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Yeah, mixed arms.

Looking at something like:

1 Dominus-class
2 Paladin-class
3 Warglaives

Fills 2 Super Heavy detachments for a few CP.

I'm also hoping to see some kind of increased CP from Super Heavy detachments the same way that Dark Eldar got extra CP from Patrols.

I wouldn’t bet on increased CP.

Without it, it’s a clear drawback to fielding pure Knights. Which is likely deliberate.

 drazz wrote:


The big boys are clocking in at 500 just for the knight itself, but a previous rumor said you could get three in an 1850 list so I would imagine that with weapons we’re looking at around 600 total cost to field them.

Possibly their numbers don't include carapace weapons.

changemod wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
The Volcano Lance can inflict 54 wounds in a perfect shot. That's borderline laughable (and I don't think in a "good" way).

Yeah, but about 6 on a minimal shot. Plus even a 6 shots turn is likely to hit 4 times after BS, so basing damage off -potential- means little. I think I’ll stick to harpoon and 4 meltas being enough whilst I flame with the other arm.

Oh, of course. But if you land and inflict even half of its potential, that's a dead super-heavy right there. After seeing the weapons I'm hoping the 600+ points don't include weaponry.

Luckily, I was going into this banking on taking tons of Armigers, so we'll see.

Problem is all top tier competitive armies don't include super heavies. So while these Knights are great models to a competitive gamer they are useless going on what we've seen so far.

Hopefully they'll have some +1 Invulnerable Warlord trait and / or Stratagem for a 3++ because without it these won't see turn two.

I am a bit worried that with each new release, the knight become more and more close to the warhound titan. How does the new big knight compares to a warhound ? It is sad, it blurries the lines.
However, statically speaking, they are far. The new plasma weapons is ... underwhelming.
The harpoon cannon however is wow ! Why making this weapon so deadly ?
And don't forget to magnetize !
All these new knight really pleased me, they are a true army know, I was wondering how good are the FW ones ?

Shadowsword is pretty common fos ig

I don't share the hype of the harpoon. It is only 12 inch and 1 shot. This means you could most of the time charge with a normal knight and do much more damage with a melee weapon. Any inv will be bad for the harpoon.
From math hammer the volcano Lance is better against most targets anyway and has a much better range.

 XT-1984 wrote:
Problem is all top tier competitive armies don't include super heavies. So while these Knights are great models to a competitive gamer they are useless going on what we've seen so far.

Hopefully they'll have some +1 Invulnerable Warlord trait and / or Stratagem for a 3++ because without it these won't see turn two.

It’s still reliably deleting a tank every turn. Landraider, Battlewagon, you name it, it’s nuking it. Not to mention what I might do to units such as Terminators and their equivalents.

And realistically, Super Heavies are the most reliable counter to this big boy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the Harpoon? I want to see someone shoot it at a Command Barge. Roll under 10 on a D6? Dunno....might have to pay for a CP are-roll