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2018/06/12 07:50:08
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
rvd1ofakind wrote:"I can win a GT with an army with no guns. I'm not sure I could do it with crons" - Nick Nanavati
FeelsBadMan
Is that the IDICbeer 40k guy on youtube ?
He is probably the most successful 40k player in the world. 8th ed especially: 4 out of 5 #1 in adepticon in a row (2nd the one time he didn't place 1st), won the 2018 LVO (biggest tournament ever) and won the ITC for the year where 8th ed started (aka won the most big tournaments)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/12 08:02:12
rvd1ofakind wrote:"I can win a GT with an army with no guns. I'm not sure I could do it with crons" - Nick Nanavati
FeelsBadMan
Is that the IDICbeer 40k guy on youtube ?
He is probably the most successful 40k player in the world. 8th ed especially: 4 out of 5 #1 in adepticon in a row (2nd the one time he didn't place 1st), won the 2018 LVO (biggest tournament ever) and won the ITC for the year where 8th ed started (aka won the most big tournaments)
Ok, so he is not IDICbeer 40k on youtube. Obviously he knows how to play. We have some good melee units, probably not the best, but surely not the worst either, so i have no idea why he said that. 3*6 wraiths would surely wreak havoc upon anything they encounter, even on a GT.
2018/06/12 11:35:26
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
[spoiler]Awesome writeup! Got a couple of questions;
-How did the Nightbringer do in your list? What was his role in your army?
-You mentioned the Chrono-tek helping the survivability of the Destroyers. How was he able to keep up?
-Why squads of 5-man for your Destoyers?
-
Thanks man, im glad to answer your questions.
- I feel the mortal wound generation capabilities of C'tan shards are too good to pass up, and i try to include at least one in every list that I have. I usually default to the Nightbringer now, I have run combinations of all three now and pound for pound he just outperforms the others so much. 80% of the time i run the smite and pulse on him, as he wants to be close, so smite until you get there then just pulse mortal wounds. His role is pretty simple. Run up the board with the wraiths and put as much pressure on their front lines as possible. He is an absolute monster in CC, any non vehicle unit melts when he starts to look at them from shooting and he pumps out mortal wounds. Combined with entropic strike and he makes short work of archons 2++ just as well as flyrants. T7 and 8w with fly means he can just fly about, shooting, MW'ing and fighting whatever he needs to. Combined with the wraiths they soak up ALOT of firepower, the smart play is to focus down the destroyers but its hard to do this when you have a bunch of angry murder toasters protecting a cosmic murder machine bearing down on you.
- So this I haven't figured out completely yet, I was very lucky in my games this weekend. First game v nids they came to me, I didnt have to move much. Second and third games were variations of DoW, so range was never an issue. I have a couple of ideas how to get around it in future, there is a VoD in the list, which I could use to reposition, or I was thinking a HD in each squad to daisy chain back as he has longer range anyway. He needs to be 3" away, on average advance rolls he usually gets to where he needs to be, that and 24" range guns means the destroyers never usually need to go past half field, not a huge issue. The one game I lost him early I just flew my Cape-tek back to cover the destroyers, meant they died a bit quicker but I was making no 5++'s that game anyway so the chronometron didnt help at all lol.
- I build the list as you see (mostly), but only had 1 squad of destroyers and a DDA and TA. Then I dropped the DDA for 4 more destroyers, then realised that a TA is another squad of 5. A bit more jiggling around and I realised I could fit 15 in the list, and I would rather have 3x5 man squads than 1x5, 1x4 and 1x6 man units, as it gives pretty easy target priority to someone who knows how to negate RP by focusing a squad at a time down. The way I see it, once MD is up, you dont lose much at all from not having the extra in the unit with full rerolls.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Azuza001 wrote: Yeah I ended up killing him from the tesseract vault. He brought down to 4 wounds from everything going at him (to be fair I was pretty stupid trying to take him on in cc) and then the swarmlord rolled 12 on smite and did 2 wounds to himself and 2 to my destroyer Lord, which the vault finished with cosmic fire. And the deceiver got hit first in cc before he got a change to hit back, it was what it was.
I like your list a lot. I just need to drop it down to 1500 for our local tournament rules.
This is what I am thinking.
[spoiler]
Catacomb Command Barge w/ warscythe
Destroyer Lord w / warscythe
Deceiver
Wraiths ( 5 of them )
Destroyer squad ( 5 in the squad )
Destroyer squad ( 5 in the squad )
Doomsday Ark
My issue is it's very low on command points, only 3 after using one for 2 artifacts for the hq's. That leaves very little room for stratagems but the force itself is incredibly fast and can output a lot of damage quickly. I could drop the dda for some immortals but I won't have any real way to get them around the board so I don't want to go that route.
I would personally drop the DDA for 4 more Destroyers if you have the models. Is the deciever meant to redeploy the destroyers? Your really need a cryptek with them to keep them alive, and id rock a Res orb on the D/lord if you could. You could chuck a VoD on a cryptek, blink him up the board with some destroyers, while the others get brought up with the Deciever if you wanted mobility?
Destroyers need cp. If you are running sautekh i would suggest a battalion minimum, and the sautekh warlord trait to farm them back. realistically in sautekh you are spending 3cp per turn on the destroyers. They are hungry for CP but it is extremely worth it. Immortals can camp objectives, score you points, which is crucial in most missions.
[/spoiler]
[/spoiler]
So that’s interesting I am curious how the nightbringer out performs the Transcendent when it can put out two powers a turn?
Its not just the mortal wounds, he is cheaper, has a fleshbane shooting attack and also has fleshbane in combat. While the T/ctan is superior in powers, literally every other metric the nightbringer is better, while also being cheaper
Doctoralex wrote:
So that’s interesting I am curious how the nightbringer out performs the Transcendent when it can put out two powers a turn?
The Nightbringer is superior to the T. C'tan IMO. 15 points cheaper, better in melee against any non-vehicle that is T4 or higher and his Gaze of Death is pretty much equal to a second C'tan power.
Yeah pretty much this
Raxxamous wrote:
The nightbringer can fight the swarmlord in combat, for a number of reasons.
His shooting attack that hits and wounds on 2+ and forces him on his invo should strip wounds before you get there, along with the mortal wounds from the C'tan powers youll be popping off. Once in combat it comes down to who can make more 4+ invuls, but if you can manage to get the first swing in combat, entropic strike with your fist hit you can usually swing the fight in your favour. He is not as easy as just running at and killing, you need to weaken him and fight on your terms but it is possible to kill him.
Hell ive killed him with a squad of wraiths before. 3++ is way better than 4++, and when each strike is doing 2d to him, it can do it. It took me about 6 rounds of combat to finally down him with the wraiths but they got the job done.
Well, considering that the Swarmlord has 3++ vs melee weapons, you were playing very wrong.
I mean, Its not up to me to know his rules. Granted with the 3++ there is probably no way I was winning that fight.
Well, considering that the Swarmlord has 3++ vs melee weapons, you were playing very wrong.
If he killed the swarmlord with his wraiths its not him who played wrong.
Yeah, it was a wet noodle fight for a very long time, i was rolling super hot on my 3++'s, but he was too for his saves. I looked at it as I had just tied up the swarmlord for 3 turns, I was very happy with that.
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2018/06/12 12:00:27
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
rvd1ofakind wrote:"I can win a GT with an army with no guns. I'm not sure I could do it with crons" - Nick Nanavati
FeelsBadMan
Is that the IDICbeer 40k guy on youtube ?
He is probably the most successful 40k player in the world. 8th ed especially: 4 out of 5 #1 in adepticon in a row (2nd the one time he didn't place 1st), won the 2018 LVO (biggest tournament ever) and won the ITC for the year where 8th ed started (aka won the most big tournaments)
Ok, so he is not IDICbeer 40k on youtube. Obviously he knows how to play. We have some good melee units, probably not the best, but surely not the worst either, so i have no idea why he said that. 3*6 wraiths would surely wreak havoc upon anything they encounter, even on a GT.
That's 900 points that could be killed as easy as 270 pts of guard infantry with mortal wounds. O hi, popular and strong thousand sons DP, Ahriman smite spam lists.
And he said he can he can win chaos with no guns. It has nothing to do with melee necrons.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/12 12:01:49
That's 900 points that could be killed as easy as 270 pts of guard infantry with mortal wounds. O hi, popular and strong thousand sons DP, Ahriman smite spam lists.
And he said he can he can win chaos with no guns. It has nothing to do with melee necrons.
Wow, impressive. Its hard not to win if you can do something like 20 smites per turn. Send scarabs first, they are perfect for taking smites.
2018/06/12 14:55:04
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
That's 900 points that could be killed as easy as 270 pts of guard infantry with mortal wounds. O hi, popular and strong thousand sons DP, Ahriman smite spam lists.
And he said he can he can win chaos with no guns. It has nothing to do with melee necrons.
Wow, impressive. Its hard not to win if you can do something like 20 smites per turn. Send scarabs first, they are perfect for taking smites.
Yes, however wraiths will want to be in close combat - meaning they most likelly be the closest unit past turn 1. Also scarabs can easily be handled by Pink horrors(low armor, T3 = perfect target for them) and the like.
And obviously they will not die to smite alone. It's just that smite really hard counters them.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/12 14:56:12
I think what p5freak meant is that you'll want to move the Scarabs in front of the Wraiths until you're in charge range. Obviously, you want to get the Wraiths into melee, but that doesn't mean that you have to leave them vulnerable to "target the closest unit" abilities.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/12 15:16:55
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress 2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
2018/06/12 15:42:52
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
rvd1ofakind wrote: "I can win a GT with an army with no guns. I'm not sure I could do it with crons" - Nick Nanavati
FeelsBadMan
Haha, when/where did he say this?
I was wondering the same. Nick's a good player and an even better person but this is a pretty silly comment considering they've already placed as high as 3rd and have barely been out long enough to scratch the surface of their potential.
2018/06/12 17:08:44
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
On paper they seem pretty potent. Meph code+TA at rapid fire range means 10 can legitimately threaten most bog standard HQs on the drop. 2.6 MWs plus another 2 to 4 normal wounds depending on toughness and saves. One unit could seriously make most HQs at least a little hesitant, and two units can take care of event he tougher ones with little trouble.
That's also not using MWBD or Veil or anything else on them. For the cost of 1 CP you can really bring some pain.
I'm wondering how easy people will find it is to bubble wrap against it and how quickly we can remover that wrapper.
I used them for a bit. Granted I only own 5 but they were the first unit dead every game. probably would have better results if I owned 10 and ran it that way
2018/06/12 17:20:34
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Egyptian Space Zombie wrote: Any consensus on Lychguard/Praetorians? I got 10 of em on sprues. I know neither choice is super competitve but I'm wondering how you guys have seen them perform.
SPikeyBits did a really in depth analysis.
I think Lychguard with sword and Shields are the way to go
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Egyptian Space Zombie wrote: Any consensus on Lychguard/Praetorians? I got 10 of em on sprues. I know neither choice is super competitve but I'm wondering how you guys have seen them perform.
SPikeyBits did a really in depth analysis.
I think Lychguard with sword and Shields are the way to go
They are expensive enough for what they do that they need carefully planned out synergy with the rest of the army. How do you plan to build your army? That will likely govern what unit configuration you can make best use of
2018/06/12 17:36:39
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
That's 49/9 hits, on average.
98/27 wounds.
196/81 unsaved wounds.
686/81 damage, or 8.47 damage.
Doesn't even bracket a Knight.
Meanwhile, a Warden that shoots you with an Avenger Gatling Cannon does...
12 shots.
8 hit.
4 wounds.
8/3 unsaved (DDAs have a 3+, right?).
20/9 past Quantum Shielding, or 2.22 damage.
If he also gets the Heavy Flamer, that's...
7/2 hits.
7/6 wounds.
7/12 unsaved, or .58 damage.
Not much extra, but that does mean he's in charge range, which will do...
12 attacks.
8 hits.
16/3 wounds.
32/9 unsaved.
80/27 past Quantum Shielding.
160/27 damage, or 5.93 damage.
In total, in one turn, a Warden can do 8.73 damage to a DDA. Or, to put it another way, the DDAs take more damage than they dish out. And if the Warden has a Gauntlet to use Death Grip with...
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
2018/06/12 17:38:33
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
That's 49/9 hits, on average.
98/27 wounds.
196/81 unsaved wounds.
686/81 damage, or 8.47 damage.
Doesn't even bracket a Knight.
Meanwhile, a Warden that shoots you with an Avenger Gatling Cannon does...
12 shots.
8 hit.
4 wounds.
8/3 unsaved (DDAs have a 3+, right?).
20/9 past Quantum Shielding, or 2.22 damage.
If he also gets the Heavy Flamer, that's...
7/2 hits.
7/6 wounds.
7/12 unsaved, or .58 damage.
Not much extra, but that does mean he's in charge range, which will do...
12 attacks.
8 hits.
16/3 wounds.
32/9 unsaved.
80/27 past Quantum Shielding.
160/27 damage, or 5.93 damage.
In total, in one turn, a Warden can do 8.73 damage to a DDA. Or, to put it another way, the DDAs take more damage than they dish out. And if the Warden has a Gauntlet to use Death Grip with...
Is it possible to add in Min/Max or above average/below average damage stats? I think this is something everyone should consider doing on this site because very rarely are you going to do the average. For me at least lately I have been doing well above the average for most rolls. Back in 7th for some reason every roll I made was below. Considering this range will also hopefully help flesh out additional strategies. I mean 1 DDA with perfect rolling and failed saves puts out 36 damage, with the cannon alone. I have used it against LR's and occasionally against knights but I usually end up with 4 shots and 3 hits. Then for me at least i wound 3 as well. I know this may be rare but it happens too frequent to not be considered.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/12 18:00:30
2018/06/12 19:36:33
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Doomsday arks are d6 shots, so on average 3 to 4 shots. 2 of them and saying 7 shots is fair.
To hit you need 3's. If you go with the nihlitak (sp?) Dynasty that's rerolling ones so say 5 to 6 hits. Wounds on 3's, so 3 to 4 wounds, and a 5++ save will probably save 1 of those, so that's 2 to 3 getting through, doing d6 damage each or on average 6-9 Wounds, your right there. But quantum shielding will protect your dda from the bigger stuff those knights can dish out, and how did you let the knight get that close to your dda? You have range 72", so the chance they get into combat range past your entire army is slim. I still hold 2 dda throughout the battle will destroy a knight. Can they 1 turn destroy them? No, but they can potentially do that and they will blow it away by turn 3.
There is no such thing as a perfect counter. But I put my money on our arks over what a marine could take to deal with said knight.
2018/06/12 19:45:21
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
rvd1ofakind wrote: "I can win a GT with an army with no guns. I'm not sure I could do it with crons" - Nick Nanavati
FeelsBadMan
Haha, when/where did he say this?
I was wondering the same. Nick's a good player and an even better person but this is a pretty silly comment considering they've already placed as high as 3rd and have barely been out long enough to scratch the surface of their potential.
Competitive 40kFB group yesterday. The admin wrote: "challenge to Nick Brown: win a GT with necrons" and that was the response
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/12 19:46:06
p5freak wrote: Yes, scarabs move in front of wraith. They take the smites, wraith move over them, and attack whatever there is.
I've yet to have a game where scarabs screened and survived past turn 1.
Screens aren't supposed to survive deep into the game, man. They're supposed to soak up the damage that would otherwise be going to your more valuable units. Any damage your Scarabs actually do is just gravy. There is this weird mentality in the 40k community that if a unit doesn't kill its own value in other units, that unit has failed. Not everything is meant to be an offensive powerhouse.
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress 2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
2018/06/12 20:25:07
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Doctoralex wrote: Is it just me, or is Mephrit getting a bit of a bad rep for no reason?
There's a few vocal rascals in this thread who have declared Mephrit garbage and also refuse to give any reasons why. They're just very loud. Don't listen to them.
Most people know Mephrit is pretty good in the right places.
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
2018/06/12 20:31:09
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
If I remember correctly, modifiers don't apply to Overwatch unless specifically stated. The reason Tesla still applies is that it's a to-hit roll of 6+.
*edit because I no grammar to good*
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/12 20:36:02
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress 2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
2018/06/12 20:40:03
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
nintura wrote: So then what happens if you overwatch while having a +1 to hit but roll a 5? You miss overwatch but Tesla still triggers?
Nothing.
Overwatch always hits on a 6+, regardless of ANY modifiers. Even if the enemy is -3 to hit or the Immortals have +1 from MWBD, they will always hit on a 6 and, since modifiers cant affect overwatch, procc Telsa on said 6.
2018/06/12 21:14:44
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
nintura wrote: So then what happens if you overwatch while having a +1 to hit but roll a 5? You miss overwatch but Tesla still triggers?
Nothing.
Overwatch always hits on a 6+, regardless of ANY modifiers. Even if the enemy is -3 to hit or the Immortals have +1 from MWBD, they will always hit on a 6 and, since modifiers cant affect overwatch, procc Telsa on said 6.
Right but that's not what I'm asking. Rolling a 5 with a +1 to hit means you still miss in Overwatch, but you still rolled a modified hit roll of 6 which would technically trigger the two extra hits with Tesla.
nintura wrote: So then what happens if you overwatch while having a +1 to hit but roll a 5? You miss overwatch but Tesla still triggers?
Nothing.
Overwatch always hits on a 6+, regardless of ANY modifiers. Even if the enemy is -3 to hit or the Immortals have +1 from MWBD, they will always hit on a 6 and, since modifiers cant affect overwatch, procc Telsa on said 6.
Right but that's not what I'm asking. Rolling a 5 with a +1 to hit means you still miss in Overwatch, but you still rolled a modified hit roll of 6 which would technically trigger the two extra hits with Tesla.
It doesn't matter if you are +1 to hit. Overwatch ignores any to-hit modifiers the unit has, positive or negative.
2018/06/12 21:30:09
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Not asking about overwatch. Yes, I realize overwatch misses. I'm asking about the Tesla check and trigger. It goes in 3 phases.
Unmodified Roll: Overwatch see's a 5. it misses.
Add modifiers: +1 to hit, makes your 5 a 6
Tesla Checks: Tesla see's a 6 was rolled. Trigger Tesla.
General Handbook:
Overwatch is resolved like a normal shooting attack and uses all the normal rules except that a 6 is always required for a successful hit roll,irrespective of the firing model’s Ballistic Skill or any modifiers.
Maybe someone else help explain it. Overwatch ignores any modifiers you have. You don't add or remove hit modifiers. You roll to hit and any 6's are hits. Any effects on those 6's (like Tesla) happen as normal.
Else a unit of Tomb Blades could charge an enemy unit and be immune to overwatch, thanks to their -1 to hit.
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