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Doctoralex wrote:
On a related note to named characters:

Why can other faction's powerful HQ's just laugh at The Nightbringer/T.C'tan in terms of killing power, while also being cheaper AND providing buffs to nearby units?

I'm mostly talking about a Chaos Deamonprince, Tyranid Flyrant and Custodes Shield-captain on bike.

Why are these just straight up better in melee, cheaper and provide buffs?

They cost about the same amount. But have mostly, more attacks, or otherwise let themselves reroll failed hit rolls of 1. I'm pretty sure the Nightbringer would drop a flyrant in a round going head to head between powers, gaze of death, and then either entropic strike, or decent rolling, since he wounds all non-vehicles on 2's.

That also said, the nightbringer is made to kill fleshy targets, not vehicles, so his strength isn't through the roof, that's one of his bigger drawbacks, he has a niche forced on him that doesn't apply to others.

Deceiver is all about redeployment. T-Ctan are all about powers, and are pretty lackluster otherwise.

torblind wrote:

Shadar_Logoth wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Named Necrons characters need a 10-20% points drop.

Can agree with that, but I wouldn't say most of them stuck as much as half of them do.

Yeah, I agree with that. Sszeras is pretty solid in the right lists, and I've seen people have success with Imo. I have a feeling Orikan+WS LG or FOs has the potential to be a pretty snazzy combo if you can deliver them together correctly. Anraykr's +1 attack is pretty cool it's just a headache to get him anywhere to us it effectively.

Everyone else is pretty underwhelming. Trazyn in particular is pretty bad.

Isn't trazyn fairly priced for the wargear he brings? (Not saying you necessarily would want that wargear)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I played Anrakyr and Orikan with 10 WS LG on the receiving end of 80 genestealers once with great success


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Of course they come to you. Hence the success.

Excellent I really want to run these together can’t ever decide the best delivery mechanism I have thought through some combos and they just seem really expensive to get both HQs into where they would do most damage, They seem expensive and maybe not worth it for the output?

Not Sure which of these lists I like more to fight Ad-Mech.

List 1


List 2


Let me know your thoughts. Both are similar in that the immortals stay tight for MWB, chrono, and RA support.
I expect to probably run into 4 triple heavy phosphor blaster Kastelan robots.

 iGuy91 wrote:
Not Sure which of these lists I like more to fight Ad-Mech.

List 1

Spoiler:

Sautekh Bat +5 CP

Cryptek with Chrono
Overlord with SOL, Immortal Pride,
3x10 Tesla Immortals

DDA
x3 Heavy Destroyers

Nephrek Outrider +1CP

Destroyer Lord with SOL, VoD Relic

x9 Scarabs
x6 Wraiths
x6 Destroyers

2k on the nose, 9cp base

List 2

Spoiler:

Sautekh Bat +5CP
Cryptek with Chrono
Overlord with SOL, Immortal Pride,
3x10 Tesla Immortals

DDA
DDA

Nephrek Outrider +1CP

Cryptek with Cloak, VoD

x6 Wraiths
x6 Destroyers
x6 TB with Tesla Carbines, Shieldvanes

2k on the nose, 9cp

Let me know your thoughts. Both are similar in that the immortals stay tight for MWB, chrono, and RA support.
I expect to probably run into 4 triple heavy phosphor blaster Kastelan robots.

I‘d go with your 2nd list but I would drop the TB. You already have 30TImmortals and not that much of targets for them. If hes playing 4robots I assume hes also having Cawl and is going for the wrath of mars stratagem. Just stay out of LOS of them and as soon as hes making them double shoot RUN your Wraiths at them and tie them up.
Your DDA should focus Dunecrawlers. As already mentioned drop the TB get some scarabs, and maybe another DDA or more Wraiths idk.
Admech is pretty much a one trick pony. If the robots are tied up and dunecrawlers are destroyed you have pretty much won.
You‘ll need scarabs if hes deepstriking dragoons or electropriests. TImmortals will kill the priests and your Destroyers should target dragoons.

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
Not Sure which of these lists I like more to fight Ad-Mech.

List 1

Spoiler:

Sautekh Bat +5 CP

Cryptek with Chrono
Overlord with SOL, Immortal Pride,
3x10 Tesla Immortals

DDA
x3 Heavy Destroyers

Nephrek Outrider +1CP

Destroyer Lord with SOL, VoD Relic

x9 Scarabs
x6 Wraiths
x6 Destroyers

2k on the nose, 9cp base

List 2

Spoiler:

Sautekh Bat +5CP
Cryptek with Chrono
Overlord with SOL, Immortal Pride,
3x10 Tesla Immortals

DDA
DDA

Nephrek Outrider +1CP

Cryptek with Cloak, VoD

x6 Wraiths
x6 Destroyers
x6 TB with Tesla Carbines, Shieldvanes

2k on the nose, 9cp

Let me know your thoughts. Both are similar in that the immortals stay tight for MWB, chrono, and RA support.
I expect to probably run into 4 triple heavy phosphor blaster Kastelan robots.

I‘d go with your 2nd list but I would drop the TB. You already have 30TImmortals and not that much of targets for them. If hes playing 4robots I assume hes also having Cawl and is going for the wrath of mars stratagem. Just stay out of LOS of them and as soon as hes making them double shoot RUN your Wraiths at them and tie them up.
Your DDA should focus Dunecrawlers. As already mentioned drop the TB get some scarabs, and maybe another DDA or more Wraiths idk.
Admech is pretty much a one trick pony. If the robots are tied up and dunecrawlers are destroyed you have pretty much won.
You‘ll need scarabs if hes deepstriking dragoons or electropriests. TImmortals will kill the priests and your Destroyers should target dragoons.

Correct on all accounts
List is basically a Robot/Cawl/Castle running Stigies Wrath of Mars combo.
Just enough infantry to screen, two dunecrawlers, and then infiltrated electropriests and dragoons.

I figured the bikes might draw some aggro. Planned on using the VoD to ensure that the destroyers get in range for turn 1 extermination protocols on the robots. Once they are dead, I honestly am not afraid of anything else on the board. Dropping the TB I suppose could let me get a large scarab screen, but I will still have 100something points to kick around.

What's the stat line of the admech robots?

torblind wrote:
What's the stat line of the admech robots?

T7, 3+, 5++, 6 Wounds,

BS 4+, range 36, 18 shots apiece when double tapping at STR 6, AP-2, 1 damage. With a Cawl they reroll all misses. With Wrath of Mars, 6+ cause Mortal wound in addition. They dakka most things out of existence.
The configuration costs 110 points per model

COLD CASH wrote:
Personally everytime ive used Imo hes been great, hes very well rounded, great buffs(stuff FO's), great CC, great shooting and that storm is golden - especially for activating M.D. which i combo alot with units depending on what i need dead.

I love him too his extra range on attacks and the storm really messes with my opponents. That pocket of Dark Reapers taking down you Destroyers with ease? Storm them and cut their numbers in half with a roll of only a 3. I like him and being able to put My Will Be Done on two units of tesla and Destoryer blob is just icing on the cake.

 iGuy91 wrote:

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
Not Sure which of these lists I like more to fight Ad-Mech.

List 1

Spoiler:

Sautekh Bat +5 CP

Cryptek with Chrono
Overlord with SOL, Immortal Pride,
3x10 Tesla Immortals

DDA
x3 Heavy Destroyers

Nephrek Outrider +1CP

Destroyer Lord with SOL, VoD Relic

x9 Scarabs
x6 Wraiths
x6 Destroyers

2k on the nose, 9cp base

List 2

Spoiler:

Sautekh Bat +5CP
Cryptek with Chrono
Overlord with SOL, Immortal Pride,
3x10 Tesla Immortals

DDA
DDA

Nephrek Outrider +1CP

Cryptek with Cloak, VoD

x6 Wraiths
x6 Destroyers
x6 TB with Tesla Carbines, Shieldvanes

2k on the nose, 9cp

Let me know your thoughts. Both are similar in that the immortals stay tight for MWB, chrono, and RA support.
I expect to probably run into 4 triple heavy phosphor blaster Kastelan robots.

I‘d go with your 2nd list but I would drop the TB. You already have 30TImmortals and not that much of targets for them. If hes playing 4robots I assume hes also having Cawl and is going for the wrath of mars stratagem. Just stay out of LOS of them and as soon as hes making them double shoot RUN your Wraiths at them and tie them up.
Your DDA should focus Dunecrawlers. As already mentioned drop the TB get some scarabs, and maybe another DDA or more Wraiths idk.
Admech is pretty much a one trick pony. If the robots are tied up and dunecrawlers are destroyed you have pretty much won.
You‘ll need scarabs if hes deepstriking dragoons or electropriests. TImmortals will kill the priests and your Destroyers should target dragoons.

Correct on all accounts
List is basically a Robot/Cawl/Castle running Stigies Wrath of Mars combo.
Just enough infantry to screen, two dunecrawlers, and then infiltrated electropriests and dragoons.

I figured the bikes might draw some aggro. Planned on using the VoD to ensure that the destroyers get in range for turn 1 extermination protocols on the robots. Once they are dead, I honestly am not afraid of anything else on the board. Dropping the TB I suppose could let me get a large scarab screen, but I will still have 100something points to kick around.

The TB could draw some fire yes but I think against admech its better to have another DDA or just strong str shooting as their troops get easily destroyed by Immortals. Just be careful if hes having snipers. They‘ll kill your crypteks.

Also be very careful with the 1st turn strategy of VoD destroyers near the robots. They have a 4++ 1st round and change it via stratagem instant or via character next round. I haven‘t done the math but i don‘t think 6destroyers plus 2ddas kill 4robots but i could be very wrong here so check this for yourself. Also BE afraid of the dunecrawlers. The icarus array or something dunecrawlers has 3 weapons Str6/7 and gets +1 to hit against everything that has fly (pretty much all necron stuff but troops/infantry). One dunecrawler will EASY kill 6destroyers and cripple a DDA if it is too close (as its straight 2 dmg and only the str7 weapon is D6).

6 destroyers rerolling, and 2 DDAs do 14.33 damage against robots with 4++. Against 5++ they do 19.11 damage (not including DDA FArrays)

2 DDA Cannons combined kill an additional robot, roughly 5.4-7.2 damage (4++/5++)

Not uplifting odds.

torblind wrote:
6 destroyers rerolling, and 2 DDAs do 14.33 damage against robots with 4++. Against 5++ they do 19.11 damage (not including DDA FArrays)

2 DDA Cannons combined kill an additional robot, roughly 5.4-7.2 damage (4++/5++)

Not uplifting odds.

The Robots are 110 points, so it isn't like the return is that bad.

tbh, i'd focus my whole army on the robots turn 1, they absolutely cannot be allowed to fire twice if I want to win the game. If the destroyers don't kill them, they're dead. He likes to use the Wrath of Mars to try and gun down my wraiths, since he views them as a major threat which prevents his shooting.

 iGuy91 wrote:
tbh, i'd focus my whole army on the robots turn 1, they absolutely cannot be allowed to fire twice if I want to win the game. If the destroyers don't kill them, they're dead. He likes to use the Wrath of Mars to try and gun down my wraiths, since he views them as a major threat which prevents his shooting.

Thats probably the best thing you could do. Kill the Robots ASAP (or tie them up while they are in shooting mode).
You really HAVE to kill all of them. The math of 6destroyers plus DDAs is killing only two of four and the other two will kill your destroyers or wraiths.

A friend of mine is playing admech so i had couple of games against them already. I usually tend to stay away from LOS of them until he goes double shooting to tie them up. Though I have to admit I mostly played vs him with my tyranids so tying them up wasnt as hard. The one time i won with necrons (all the other times lost pre codex) was with a Vault.

Problem with this tactic is if you don‘t tie up both of the dunecrawlers or 2robots survive say bye bye to your destroyers (if hes using icarus array which he should)

This is also one of the biggest problems I have with necrons. Getting the points back you‘ve paid for the units. The math posted above kills 220points but „costs“ 600+points

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
tbh, i'd focus my whole army on the robots turn 1, they absolutely cannot be allowed to fire twice if I want to win the game. If the destroyers don't kill them, they're dead. He likes to use the Wrath of Mars to try and gun down my wraiths, since he views them as a major threat which prevents his shooting.

Thats probably the best thing you could do. Kill the Robots ASAP (or tie them up while they are in shooting mode).
You really HAVE to kill all of them. The math of 6destroyers plus DDAs is killing only two of four and the other two will kill your destroyers or wraiths.

A friend of mine is playing admech so i had couple of games against them already. I usually tend to stay away from LOS of them until he goes double shooting to tie them up. Though I have to admit I mostly played vs him with my tyranids so tying them up wasnt as hard. The one time i won with necrons (all the other times lost pre codex) was with a Vault.

Problem with this tactic is if you don‘t tie up both of the dunecrawlers or 2robots survive say bye bye to your destroyers (if hes using icarus array which he should)

This is also one of the biggest problems I have with necrons. Getting the points back you‘ve paid for the units. The math posted above kills 220points but „costs“ 600+points

I mean it's about the only competitive build for AdMech and they only have a range of 24" off the top of my head. I'm more worried about the new Knight units as the Autocannon Armigers are more than the perfect counter for both Wraiths AND Destroyers.

Doctoralex wrote:
On a related note to named characters:

Why can other faction's powerful HQ's just laugh at The Nightbringer/T.C'tan in terms of killing power, while also being cheaper AND providing buffs to nearby units?

I'm mostly talking about a Chaos Deamonprince, Tyranid Flyrant and Custodes Shield-captain on bike.

Why are these just straight up better in melee, cheaper and provide buffs?

They don't explode. A good general gets 10 MWs with the explosion each game, you're really just using them wrong

 p5freak wrote:

Shadar_Logoth wrote:

Yeah, I agree with that. Sszeras is pretty solid in the right lists, and I've seen people have success with Imo. I have a feeling Orikan+WS LG or FOs has the potential to be a pretty snazzy combo if you can deliver them together correctly. Anraykr's +1 attack is pretty cool it's just a headache to get him anywhere to us it effectively.

By the time orikan gets empowered the game is over. The fact that he is sautekh and slow are two more nails in his coffin. Szeras looks good on paper, until you read the FAQ which says that his buffs are removed when you veil a unit that he buffed. No buffing destroyers and veiling them somewhere.

I don't think Orikan is bad, you're paying 20 pts to get a melee monster in the late game combined with a 6" 5+ invul aura instead of a staff of light and a 3" 5+ invul vs shooting aura. He's not the right choice for buffing LG, simply because Sautekh LG are bad, that doesn't mean he's not a worthwhile upgrade in certain Sautekh lists.

You don't take Szeras because you want to, but because you have to. If your list does not include multiple dynasties or Triarch Praetorians then he is not worth his points. But if the choice is whether to take a Cloaktek as a tax for your 2xNephrekh Scarabs and 1xNephrekh Wraiths and then taking a further Chronotek for your Mephrit or Sautekh main battleline, then Szeras is no longer a bad choice.

 iGuy91 wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:
On a related note to named characters:

Why can other faction's powerful HQ's just laugh at The Nightbringer/T.C'tan in terms of killing power, while also being cheaper AND providing buffs to nearby units?

I'm mostly talking about a Chaos Deamonprince, Tyranid Flyrant and Custodes Shield-captain on bike.

Why are these just straight up better in melee, cheaper and provide buffs?

They cost about the same amount. But have mostly, more attacks, or otherwise let themselves reroll failed hit rolls of 1. I'm pretty sure the Nightbringer would drop a flyrant in a round going head to head between powers, gaze of death, and then either entropic strike, or decent rolling, since he wounds all non-vehicles on 2's.

That also said, the nightbringer is made to kill fleshy targets, not vehicles, so his strength isn't through the roof, that's one of his bigger drawbacks, he has a niche forced on him that doesn't apply to others.

Deceiver is all about redeployment. T-Ctan are all about powers, and are pretty lackluster otherwise.

Nightbringer can't kill a Flyrant even if you have a unit of Immortals up as a distraction, you deal 8 wounds, but if we're looking at a 1V1 then the Flyrant goes first and you only get to Overwatch your Gaze, Flyrant kills you at the end of your turn or in his next psychic phase and then charges something else.

Flyrants, DPs and Custodes Shield-captains are all OP, C'tan are merely fair. The only time when C'tan are borderline unfair is with Cosmic Fire on 6+ units, but that's on your opponent for abusing auras.

My Canoptek/C'tan list lost against a Ravenguard Dreadnought gunline with Malakin Phoros in an ITC match, I had insane luck but I also forgot my Destroyers, didn't really learn a whole lot, it was all luck and forgetting stuff that decided the game and Malakin Phoros is probably going to get an Errata that makes his whole list more or less pointless anyways.


My Mephrit Night Scythe list with a Nihilakh Pylon won a game against a noob Grey Knight player with a Paladin spam list, I told him to bring a third Troops choice to get another 4 CP next time he played...


I lost a 750 pt game with a squad of 9 Acanthrites against a Guard list with a mix of Infantry, Cavalry and Tanks. I lost 3 Acanthrites as my opponent seized, I lost 2 in my turn from Overwatch and melee and 4 in my opponent's next turn as he charged in his cavalry. With my deathstar gone I surrendered. I might have had a chance if my opponent's entire army didn't get to re-roll wounds due to his Warlord trait against my Acanthrites .

 vict0988 wrote:


[ ... interesting read ... ]

Wow, you're really exploring the list-building-space. Thanks for the write up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Did you bring anything from the tomb world or were the Meprit Night Scythes just for the S7 AP-1 tesla shots?

I'd like to revisit the viability of monoliths. They are very expensive at 381, but I feel like the amount of shooting they provide, and the fact that they can act as LoS blockers can make them extremely useful. The fact the main gun is heavy 6 vs D6 is amazing. I never really roll less than 3 hits per. Plus at d3 damage they were making work of monsters. It may be the fact that at a 1500 point game the 20 wounds and T8 made it hard to penetrate and the anti tank is limited. But even over 1500 if you slip a 2nd one in it makes it really hard to deal with. Now dont get me wrong I'm not playing itc matches or entering tournaments but the games we play are still very competitive, my opponent ran the daemonic circus BS from 7th. I wanted to know what everyone else thought

For a friendly game, you can certainly make them work. They just won't cut it against tournament lists though. They have no survival mechanism beyond a lot of T8 wounds, and that simply isn't enough for that kind of points expenditure. You pay too much for their utility functionality. Overall, they suffer from tactical marine syndrome, paying too much for a jack of all trades in an environment where specializing is king.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
tbh, i'd focus my whole army on the robots turn 1, they absolutely cannot be allowed to fire twice if I want to win the game. If the destroyers don't kill them, they're dead. He likes to use the Wrath of Mars to try and gun down my wraiths, since he views them as a major threat which prevents his shooting.

Thats probably the best thing you could do. Kill the Robots ASAP (or tie them up while they are in shooting mode).
You really HAVE to kill all of them. The math of 6destroyers plus DDAs is killing only two of four and the other two will kill your destroyers or wraiths.

A friend of mine is playing admech so i had couple of games against them already. I usually tend to stay away from LOS of them until he goes double shooting to tie them up. Though I have to admit I mostly played vs him with my tyranids so tying them up wasnt as hard. The one time i won with necrons (all the other times lost pre codex) was with a Vault.

Problem with this tactic is if you don‘t tie up both of the dunecrawlers or 2robots survive say bye bye to your destroyers (if hes using icarus array which he should)

This is also one of the biggest problems I have with necrons. Getting the points back you‘ve paid for the units. The math posted above kills 220points but „costs“ 600+points

I mean it's about the only competitive build for AdMech and they only have a range of 24" off the top of my head. I'm more worried about the new Knight units as the Autocannon Armigers are more than the perfect counter for both Wraiths AND Destroyers.

36 inches on the Phosphors. Makes for a nasty combo. To be fair, I've been successful in my games against them thusfar by just selling out to kill them, i'll leave objectives behind, leave cover, whatever it takes, and so far, my only lost to them was in a 2v2, which isn't reliable for playtesting purposes.
So i'm looking to find just better ways to go about it I suppose. Appreciate the feedback!

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
For a friendly game, you can certainly make them work. They just won't cut it against tournament lists though. They have no survival mechanism beyond a lot of T8 wounds, and that simply isn't enough for that kind of points expenditure. You pay too much for their utility functionality. Overall, they suffer from tactical marine syndrome, paying too much for a jack of all trades in an environment where specializing is king.

but even for tournament lists if it were a 1500 point tournament and you fit in 2, wouldn't that still be too much to deal with?

mhalko1 wrote:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
For a friendly game, you can certainly make them work. They just won't cut it against tournament lists though. They have no survival mechanism beyond a lot of T8 wounds, and that simply isn't enough for that kind of points expenditure. You pay too much for their utility functionality. Overall, they suffer from tactical marine syndrome, paying too much for a jack of all trades in an environment where specializing is king.

but even for tournament lists if it were a 1500 point tournament and you fit in 2, wouldn't that still be too much to deal with?

Considering what other armies can bring for 1500, no not really.

 vict0988 wrote:

I don't think Orikan is bad, you're paying 20 pts to get a melee monster in the late game combined with a 6" 5+ invul aura instead of a staff of light and a 3" 5+ invul vs shooting aura. He's not the right choice for buffing LG, simply because Sautekh LG are bad, that doesn't mean he's not a worthwhile upgrade in certain Sautekh lists.

He is either dead or the game is over when he gets empowered by turn 3/4. Even if he gets empowered earlier its hard to get him anywhere because he is slow. You need a teleport/veil/deceiver for him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mhalko1 wrote:
I'd like to revisit the viability of monoliths.

There is no viability of monoliths. Knights will delete a monolith in one turn. Every faction has high powered guns with high AP, the monolith doesnt stand a chance. At 1k maybe, but not at 1,5k+.

 p5freak wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

I don't think Orikan is bad, you're paying 20 pts to get a melee monster in the late game combined with a 6" 5+ invul aura instead of a staff of light and a 3" 5+ invul vs shooting aura. He's not the right choice for buffing LG, simply because Sautekh LG are bad, that doesn't mean he's not a worthwhile upgrade in certain Sautekh lists.

He is either dead or the game is over when he gets empowered by turn 3/4. Even if he gets empowered earlier its hard to get him anywhere because he is slow. You need a teleport/veil/deceiver for him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mhalko1 wrote:
I'd like to revisit the viability of monoliths.

There is no viability of monoliths. Knights will delete a monolith in one turn. Every faction has high powered guns with high AP, the monolith doesnt stand a chance. At 1k maybe, but not at 1,5k+.

I have played a monolith in exactly 1 game. I won that game, however, the thing basically just ate Dark Angels Hellblaster fire for 2 turns and died, without dealing almost any damage. Its very underwhelming at its current price point. However, it serving as a distraction carnifex let my x10 Warscythe Lychguard + Obyron + Zandrekh + VoD + deceiver combo basically eat his whole army. Sadly, had my opponent known better, it would not have gone down that way.

 iGuy91 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

I don't think Orikan is bad, you're paying 20 pts to get a melee monster in the late game combined with a 6" 5+ invul aura instead of a staff of light and a 3" 5+ invul vs shooting aura. He's not the right choice for buffing LG, simply because Sautekh LG are bad, that doesn't mean he's not a worthwhile upgrade in certain Sautekh lists.

He is either dead or the game is over when he gets empowered by turn 3/4. Even if he gets empowered earlier its hard to get him anywhere because he is slow. You need a teleport/veil/deceiver for him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mhalko1 wrote:
I'd like to revisit the viability of monoliths.

There is no viability of monoliths. Knights will delete a monolith in one turn. Every faction has high powered guns with high AP, the monolith doesnt stand a chance. At 1k maybe, but not at 1,5k+.

I have played a monolith in exactly 1 game. I won that game, however, the thing basically just ate Dark Angels Hellblaster fire for 2 turns and died, without dealing almost any damage. Its very underwhelming at its current price point. However, it serving as a distraction carnifex let my x10 Warscythe Lychguard + Obyron + Zandrekh + VoD + deceiver combo basically eat his whole army. Sadly, had my opponent known better, it would not have gone down that way.

Named characters can't take VoD, so how does your combo work?

 iGuy91 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

I don't think Orikan is bad, you're paying 20 pts to get a melee monster in the late game combined with a 6" 5+ invul aura instead of a staff of light and a 3" 5+ invul vs shooting aura. He's not the right choice for buffing LG, simply because Sautekh LG are bad, that doesn't mean he's not a worthwhile upgrade in certain Sautekh lists.

He is either dead or the game is over when he gets empowered by turn 3/4. Even if he gets empowered earlier its hard to get him anywhere because he is slow. You need a teleport/veil/deceiver for him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mhalko1 wrote:
I'd like to revisit the viability of monoliths.

There is no viability of monoliths. Knights will delete a monolith in one turn. Every faction has high powered guns with high AP, the monolith doesnt stand a chance. At 1k maybe, but not at 1,5k+.

I have played a monolith in exactly 1 game. I won that game, however, the thing basically just ate Dark Angels Hellblaster fire for 2 turns and died, without dealing almost any damage. Its very underwhelming at its current price point. However, it serving as a distraction carnifex let my x10 Warscythe Lychguard + Obyron + Zandrekh + VoD + deceiver combo basically eat his whole army. Sadly, had my opponent known better, it would not have gone down that way.

See when I ran it last, I was playing against a nid lists with 3 carnifex-1 was a stonecrusher, flying HT, swarmlord, genestealers, gaunts and broodlord. The Particle whip was putting 4 wounds on a carnifex per turn and the flux arcs were putting another 1-2. it took 3 turns before he got near me but this allowed the infantry to open up on his infantry. I think I would need to fight an all knight list because I can see how they wouldn't turn out very well but so far I have fought lists with mostly a moderate mix of units.

 D6Damager wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

I don't think Orikan is bad, you're paying 20 pts to get a melee monster in the late game combined with a 6" 5+ invul aura instead of a staff of light and a 3" 5+ invul vs shooting aura. He's not the right choice for buffing LG, simply because Sautekh LG are bad, that doesn't mean he's not a worthwhile upgrade in certain Sautekh lists.

He is either dead or the game is over when he gets empowered by turn 3/4. Even if he gets empowered earlier its hard to get him anywhere because he is slow. You need a teleport/veil/deceiver for him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mhalko1 wrote:
I'd like to revisit the viability of monoliths.

There is no viability of monoliths. Knights will delete a monolith in one turn. Every faction has high powered guns with high AP, the monolith doesnt stand a chance. At 1k maybe, but not at 1,5k+.

I have played a monolith in exactly 1 game. I won that game, however, the thing basically just ate Dark Angels Hellblaster fire for 2 turns and died, without dealing almost any damage. Its very underwhelming at its current price point. However, it serving as a distraction carnifex let my x10 Warscythe Lychguard + Obyron + Zandrekh + VoD + deceiver combo basically eat his whole army. Sadly, had my opponent known better, it would not have gone down that way.

Named characters can't take VoD, so how does your combo work?

Tacked it onto a Cryptek to take even more stuff, try and provide the lychguard a chronometron invuln and better RP

 p5freak wrote:

Shadar_Logoth wrote:

Yeah, I agree with that. Sszeras is pretty solid in the right lists, and I've seen people have success with Imo. I have a feeling Orikan+WS LG or FOs has the potential to be a pretty snazzy combo if you can deliver them together correctly. Anraykr's +1 attack is pretty cool it's just a headache to get him anywhere to us it effectively.

By the time orikan gets empowered the game is over. The fact that he is sautekh and slow are two more nails in his coffin. Szeras looks good on paper, until you read the FAQ which says that his buffs are removed when you veil a unit that he buffed. No buffing destroyers and veiling them somewhere.

With the Stat you have a pretty reasonable chance to empower him by turn 3, but that's not really why you take him. You take him to get WS LG or FOs a 5++ in CC.

You simply are reading something into the Sszeras rules and FAQ that are not there. Szeras's buffs do not disappear on a veiled unit. Period. Now wording in the FAQ suggests otherwise.

Hey!
Long time lurker, first time poster here!

Got myself a lowpoint game coming. About 750 or 1000 points.
I dont got that much miniatures: 1 Overlord, 1 Cryptek, Szeras, 40 warriors, 5 immortals, 3 Destroyer, 1 Heavy Destroyer, 1 Triarch Stalker, 6 Scarabs.
My opponent will prox some more units, so that is an option for me this game. I came up with this:


Mephrit Battalion

HQ
Cryptek - VoD, Chrono, SoL
Overlord - WL: Merciless Tyrant - Voltaic Staff

Troops
Immortals Tesla x 10 (proxed by warriors)
Immortals Tesla x 5
Warriors x 10

Fast Attack
Scarabs x 3
Destroyer x 3

753 points

Plan was to veil the 10 Teslamortals with MWBD (into cover) with the Cryptek and pressure the opponent and walk up with the warriors and OL.


Or I scratch my proxing idea and go for 5 Teslamortals, 14 warriors, 10 warriors for 751 points. More so, go for Immortal pride and Melee or the VStaff?


What do you guys think?

Shadar_Logoth wrote:



With the Stat you have a pretty reasonable chance to empower him by turn 3, but that's not really why you take him. You take him to get WS LG or FOs a 5++ in CC.

I assume you mean the command re-roll strat ? Second turn you have a 16,7% chance to empower him. Are you really spending 1 CP for a 16,7% chance ? Third turn your chance is 33,3%. Are you really spending another CP to re-roll that ?

Shadar_Logoth wrote:

You simply are reading something into the Sszeras rules and FAQ that are not there. Szeras's buffs do not disappear on a veiled unit. Period. Now wording in the FAQ suggests otherwise.

I was wrong. We already sorted that out.

I assume you mean the command re-roll strat ? Second turn you have a 16,7% chance to empower him. Are you really spending 1 CP for a 16,7% chance ? Third turn your chance is 33,3%. Are you really spending another CP to re-roll that ?

16.7 + 33.33 + 33.33.

It's not exactly accumulative like that, but it works out to about a 63% chance to empower him by turn 3 if you only use the strat that turn. If you really want to get him empowered by turn 3, sure, why not?

It would then jump to about a 81 to 91% chance to empower him by turn 4.

Again, though, the empowerment is just icing on the cake. His 5++ that works in CC is his most enticing feature.